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Re: [ANE-2] Another pre-dynastic Egyptian king discovered

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  • Ian Onvlee
    Hi Eliot, This is an interesting discovery. I have studied this particular era for over 40 years and have come to the following conclusions. The double falcon
    Message 1 of 5 , Apr 2, 2010
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      Hi Eliot,

      This is an interesting discovery. I have studied this particular era for over 40 years and have come to the following conclusions.

      The double falcon may not have been a separate king, since the two falcons are always above an empty serekh. It is more likely a kind of family emblem. There are only three predynastic kings who were buried in a nearly identical type double or twin tomb: Ro, Ka and Narmer. These three are the successors of king Scorpion II. At this time the Egyptian colonies in southern Palestine were flourishing again, and the earliest king attested in these colonies is king Ka, at the place called Lod. To my mind Ro, Ka and Narmer are the double falcon kings themselves. The Lybian Palet, usually regarded as showing a set of seven 'fortresses', is dated to the time of Narmer, but actually seems to show a line of seven rulers, each portrayed as building some monument or estate. Above the seventh 'fortress' we are again confronted with two falcons, although each atop a separate empty serekh, which I take as the two kings Ro and Ka, perhaps brothers. Above the sixth is a
      scorpion, which I take as king Scorpion. Above the fifth is a lion. Above the first four there was apparently only a falcon each. Each animal holds a symbol of 'building', so these animals were most certainly kings. Based on several other artifacts, I have come to the conclusion that the predecessor of king Scorpion II may indeed have been a king 'Lion',  probably called Thamr[t]. Additionally I read the square blocks in the 'fortresses' as primitive forms of the hieroglyph for 'ten' [years]. The last three 'fortresses' contain each three blocks, and thus suggests to me 30 years each (perhaps celebrating a Sed-festival?). The fourth contains four blocks, the third probably zero blocks, the second seven blocks and the first eight blocks. Therefore, I propose that the Lybian Palet can be read as a primative 'kinglist' encompassing a predynastic period of 280 years prior to Narmer. If Narmer himself also reigned circa 30 years, this would be a unique
      artefact suggesting information regarding a period of circa 310 years prior to the First Dynasty. I have also tentatively associated the Owl, read as 'Em', in the first 'fortress', with the mysterious predynastic king Emkha mentioned on the Palermo Stone. So perhaps these hieroglyphs in the fortresses were second names of the building Horus-kings.

      In any case, I have the following probable order of six predynastic kings:

      Ta (Hat-hor?)
      Lion (Thamr or Thamrt?)
      Scorpion II (Serkh or Serkh-an)
      Ro or Iry-hor (first of the family of the double falcon)
      Ka or Ka Ap (second of the family of the double falcon), first king attested in the Levant
      Nar or Narmer (third of the family of the double falcon), second king attested in the Levant

      So my personal view is that Ka-wy or Ka Ka is most likely just a variant form of Ka, the first attested Egyptian king in the Egyptian colonies in Southern Palestine. Variant forms of the name of Narmer have also been found, so this is not unique. Perhaps the double falcon simply meant 'double kingdom', perhaps alluding to the conquest of not only Upper and Lower Egypt, but of the combined area of Egypt and Southern Palestine, and this may have been reflected in the doubling of the name of Ka himself.

      Another possibility is that Ka-wy or Kaui was simply the second name of king Lion. Inside the 'fortress' of the Lion on the Lybian Palet is a hieroglyph read as Kau, since it is formed by the two upward held hands (forming Ka) which seem to be bound by a rope or bar. It may in fact be meant as a double Ka, thus reading more precisely as Kaui or Ka Ka. The problem is that we lack the attestation of this name in Egypt itself, so this must remain speculative. However, if true, then king Lion (Thamr?) or Kaui? was perhaps the real first conquerer of both Egypt and the Levant, a century prior to the First Dynasty.

      Regards,
      Ian Onvlee




      ________________________________
      From: eliot braun <eliotbraun@...>
      To: ANE <ANE-2@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thu, April 1, 2010 9:36:21 AM
      Subject: [ANE-2] Another pre-dynastic Egyptian king discovered

       
      Newly discovered site with new pre-dynastic king.
       
      In a recent, unpublished salvage project, archaeologist Harrison Lincoln has unearthed evidence of a small, previously unknown site in the southern Levant. It appears to be a small campsite used by Egyptians more than 5000 years ago. For those interested it is located at 31049'12.59" N  -   34007'01.83" (Check it out on Google Earth) Known as Teleilat (small tells) el Bahri. This 0.3 hectare site has only begun to be excavated, but it has already yielded evidence of several generations of encampments, apparently tents of a temporary nature erected on the same site over several generations. It has also yielded a small repertoire of Egyptian pottery. Included in the finds is a serekh (i.e., an early royal Egyptian symbol of a monumental building, a tomb, palace or temple) in which the name of the ruler is written in a special (name) compartment.
       
      The name of this king, who lived sometime early in Dynasty 0 is one previously unknown. It is written with the hieroglyph of two raised hands, appearing doubly and should be read as Ka-wy or Ka Ka. This king Ka Ka is otherwise undocumented, although some archaeologist working in Egypt may soon turn up his tomb as the news is full of that type of happening virtually daily. King Ka Ka was presumably one of the early rulers prior to the unification of Egypt. The double name is a somewhat unusual form, but another king with a dual name is known for this early period. His name was written with a double falcon above a serekh and he is known as "Double Falcon".

      Eliot Braun, Ph D
      Sr. Fellow WF Albright Institute of Archaeological Research, Jerusalem
      Associate Researcher Centre de Recherche Français de Jérusalem
      PO Box 21, Har Adar 90836 Israel
      Tel 972-2-5345687, Cell 972-50-2231096
    • David Lorton
      Message 2 of 5 , Apr 2, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        -----Original Message-----
        >From: Ian Onvlee <sambacats@...>
        >Sent: Apr 2, 2010 7:55 AM
        >To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Another pre-dynastic Egyptian king discovered
        >
        >Hi Eliot,
        >
        >This is an interesting discovery. I have studied this particular era for over 40 years and have come to the following conclusions.
        >
        >The double falcon may not have been a separate king, since the two falcons are always above an empty serekh. It is more likely a kind of family emblem. There are only three predynastic kings who were buried in a nearly identical type double or twin tomb: Ro, Ka and Narmer. These three are the successors of king Scorpion II. At this time the Egyptian colonies in southern Palestine were flourishing again, and the earliest king attested in these colonies is king Ka, at the place called Lod. To my mind Ro, Ka and Narmer are the double falcon kings themselves. The Lybian Palet, usually regarded as showing a set of seven 'fortresses', is dated to the time of Narmer, but actually seems to show a line of seven rulers, each portrayed as building some monument or estate. Above the seventh 'fortress' we are again confronted with two falcons, although each atop a separate empty serekh, which I take as the two kings Ro and Ka, perhaps brothers. Above the sixth is a
        > scorpion, which I take as king Scorpion. Above the fifth is a lion. Above the first four there was apparently only a falcon each. Each animal holds a symbol of 'building', so these animals were most certainly kings. Based on several other artifacts, I have come to the conclusion that the predecessor of king Scorpion II may indeed have been a king 'Lion',  probably called Thamr[t]. Additionally I read the square blocks in the 'fortresses' as primitive forms of the hieroglyph for 'ten' [years]. The last three 'fortresses' contain each three blocks, and thus suggests to me 30 years each (perhaps celebrating a Sed-festival?). The fourth contains four blocks, the third probably zero blocks, the second seven blocks and the first eight blocks. Therefore, I propose that the Lybian Palet can be read as a primative 'kinglist' encompassing a predynastic period of 280 years prior to Narmer. If Narmer himself also reigned circa 30 years, this would be a unique
        > artefact suggesting information regarding a period of circa 310 years prior to the First Dynasty. I have also tentatively associated the Owl, read as 'Em', in the first 'fortress', with the mysterious predynastic king Emkha mentioned on the Palermo Stone. So perhaps these hieroglyphs in the fortresses were second names of the building Horus-kings.
        >
        >In any case, I have the following probable order of six predynastic kings:
        >
        >Ta (Hat-hor?)
        >Lion (Thamr or Thamrt?)
        >Scorpion II (Serkh or Serkh-an)
        >Ro or Iry-hor (first of the family of the double falcon)
        >Ka or Ka Ap (second of the family of the double falcon), first king attested in the Levant
        >Nar or Narmer (third of the family of the double falcon), second king attested in the Levant
        >
        >So my personal view is that Ka-wy or Ka Ka is most likely just a variant form of Ka, the first attested Egyptian king in the Egyptian colonies in Southern Palestine. Variant forms of the name of Narmer have also been found, so this is not unique. Perhaps the double falcon simply meant 'double kingdom', perhaps alluding to the conquest of not only Upper and Lower Egypt, but of the combined area of Egypt and Southern Palestine, and this may have been reflected in the doubling of the name of Ka himself.
        >
        >Another possibility is that Ka-wy or Kaui was simply the second name of king Lion. Inside the 'fortress' of the Lion on the Lybian Palet is a hieroglyph read as Kau, since it is formed by the two upward held hands (forming Ka) which seem to be bound by a rope or bar. It may in fact be meant as a double Ka, thus reading more precisely as Kaui or Ka Ka. The problem is that we lack the attestation of this name in Egypt itself, so this must remain speculative. However, if true, then king Lion (Thamr?) or Kaui? was perhaps the real first conquerer of both Egypt and the Levant, a century prior to the First Dynasty.
        >
        >Regards,
        >Ian Onvlee
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >________________________________
        >From: eliot braun <eliotbraun@...>
        >To: ANE <ANE-2@yahoogroups.com>
        >Sent: Thu, April 1, 2010 9:36:21 AM
        >Subject: [ANE-2] Another pre-dynastic Egyptian king discovered
        >

        >Newly discovered site with new pre-dynastic king.

        >In a recent, unpublished salvage project, archaeologist Harrison Lincoln has unearthed evidence of a small, previously unknown site in the southern Levant. It appears to be a small campsite used by Egyptians more than 5000 years ago. For those interested it is located at 31049'12.59" N  -   34007'01.83" (Check it out on Google Earth) Known as Teleilat (small tells) el Bahri. This 0.3 hectare site has only begun to be excavated, but it has already yielded evidence of several generations of encampments, apparently tents of a temporary nature erected on the same site over several generations. It has also yielded a small repertoire of Egyptian pottery. Included in the finds is a serekh (i.e., an early royal Egyptian symbol of a monumental building, a tomb, palace or temple) in which the name of the ruler is written in a special (name) compartment.

        >The name of this king, who lived sometime early in Dynasty 0 is one previously unknown. It is written with the hieroglyph of two raised hands, appearing doubly and should be read as Ka-wy or Ka Ka. This king Ka Ka is otherwise undocumented, although some archaeologist working in Egypt may soon turn up his tomb as the news is full of that type of happening virtually daily. King Ka Ka was presumably one of the early rulers prior to the unification of Egypt. The double name is a somewhat unusual form, but another king with a dual name is known for this early period. His name was written with a double falcon above a serekh and he is known as "Double Falcon".
        >
        >Eliot Braun, Ph D
        >Sr. Fellow WF Albright Institute of Archaeological Research, Jerusalem
        >Associate Researcher Centre de Recherche Français de Jérusalem
        >PO Box 21, Har Adar 90836 Israel
        >Tel 972-2-5345687, Cell 972-50-2231096
        >
        >
        >------------------------------------
        >
        >Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
      • eliot braun
        My apologies to one and all; I hope I ve not offended any list members.   But  it was April 1 and the mood came over me. There is no such king nor any such
        Message 3 of 5 , Apr 3, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          My apologies to one and all; I hope I've not offended any list members.
           
          But  it was April 1 and the mood came over me. There is no such king nor any such serekh, although I admit that in my original posting I added a photo of a sherd I incised post firing with an image of two pairs of raised hands; the list administrators removed it. I left a few coarse hints that it was not real; the name of the photograph file is: fauxserekh.jpg.
           
          The non-existent site, meaning the tell of the sea (Bahri is Arabic for sea), is located, according to the coordinates, somewhere in the Mediterranean off the coast of the southern Levant. The name has other meanings of an excremental nature in baby talk. The name of the archaeologist is based on Indiana Jones, protrayed by Harrison Ford, who became another Ford product; Lincoln Harrison.   
           
          Best wishes to all with the hopes that you had a good April 1.

          Eliot Braun, Ph D
          Sr. Fellow WF Albright Institute of Archaeological Research, Jerusalem
          Associate Researcher Centre de Recherche Français de Jérusalem
          PO Box 21, Har Adar 90836 Israel
          Tel 972-2-5345687, Cell 972-50-2231096

          --- On Sat, 4/3/10, David Lorton <davidlorton@...> wrote:


          From: David Lorton <davidlorton@...>
          Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Another pre-dynastic Egyptian king discovered
          To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Saturday, April 3, 2010, 2:25 AM


           





          -----Original Message-----
          >From: Ian Onvlee <sambacats@yahoo. com>
          >Sent: Apr 2, 2010 7:55 AM
          >To: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com
          >Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Another pre-dynastic Egyptian king discovered
          >
          >Hi Eliot,
          >
          >This is an interesting discovery. I have studied this particular era for over 40 years and have come to the following conclusions.
          >
          >The double falcon may not have been a separate king, since the two falcons are always above an empty serekh. It is more likely a kind of family emblem. There are only three predynastic kings who were buried in a nearly identical type double or twin tomb: Ro, Ka and Narmer. These three are the successors of king Scorpion II. At this time the Egyptian colonies in southern Palestine were flourishing again, and the earliest king attested in these colonies is king Ka, at the place called Lod. To my mind Ro, Ka and Narmer are the double falcon kings themselves. The Lybian Palet, usually regarded as showing a set of seven 'fortresses' , is dated to the time of Narmer, but actually seems to show a line of seven rulers, each portrayed as building some monument or estate. Above the seventh 'fortress' we are again confronted with two falcons, although each atop a separate empty serekh, which I take as the two kings Ro and Ka, perhaps brothers. Above the sixth is
          a
          > scorpion, which I take as king Scorpion. Above the fifth is a lion. Above the first four there was apparently  only a falcon each. Each animal holds a symbol of 'building', so these animals were most certainly kings. Based on several other artifacts, I have come to the conclusion that the predecessor of king Scorpion II may indeed have been a king 'Lion',  probably called Thamr[t]. Additionally I read the square blocks in the 'fortresses' as primitive forms of the hieroglyph for 'ten' [years]. The last three 'fortresses' contain each three blocks, and thus suggests to me 30 years each (perhaps celebrating a Sed-festival? ). The fourth contains four blocks, the third probably zero blocks, the second seven blocks and the first eight blocks. Therefore, I propose that the Lybian Palet can be read as a primative 'kinglist' encompassing a predynastic period of 280 years prior to Narmer. If Narmer himself also reigned circa 30 years, this would be a
          unique
          > artefact suggesting information regarding a period of circa 310 years prior to the First Dynasty. I have also tentatively associated the Owl, read as 'Em', in the first 'fortress', with the mysterious predynastic king Emkha mentioned on the Palermo Stone. So perhaps these hieroglyphs in the fortresses were second names of the building Horus-kings.
          >
          >In any case, I have the following probable order of six predynastic kings:
          >
          >Ta (Hat-hor?)
          >Lion (Thamr or Thamrt?)
          >Scorpion II (Serkh or Serkh-an)
          >Ro or Iry-hor (first of the family of the double falcon)
          >Ka or Ka Ap (second of the family of the double falcon), first king attested in the Levant
          >Nar or Narmer (third of the family of the double falcon), second king attested in the Levant
          >
          >So my personal view is that Ka-wy or Ka Ka is most likely just a variant form of Ka, the first attested Egyptian king in the Egyptian colonies in Southern Palestine. Variant forms of the name of Narmer have also been found, so this is not unique. Perhaps the double falcon simply meant 'double kingdom', perhaps alluding to the conquest of not only Upper and Lower Egypt, but of the combined area of Egypt and Southern Palestine, and this may have been reflected in the doubling of the name of Ka himself.
          >
          >Another possibility is that Ka-wy or Kaui was simply the second name of king Lion. Inside the 'fortress' of the Lion on the Lybian Palet is a hieroglyph read as Kau, since it is formed by the two upward held hands (forming Ka) which seem to be bound by a rope or bar. It may in fact be meant as a double Ka, thus reading more precisely as Kaui or Ka Ka. The problem is that we lack the attestation of this name in Egypt itself, so this must remain speculative. However, if true, then king Lion (Thamr?) or Kaui? was perhaps the real first conquerer of both Egypt and the Levant, a century prior to the First Dynasty.
          >
          >Regards,
          >Ian Onvlee
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >___________ _________ _________ ___
          >From: eliot braun <eliotbraun@yahoo. com>
          >To: ANE <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>
          >Sent: Thu, April 1, 2010 9:36:21 AM
          >Subject: [ANE-2] Another pre-dynastic Egyptian king discovered
          >

          >Newly discovered site with new pre-dynastic king.

          >In a recent, unpublished salvage project, archaeologist Harrison Lincoln has unearthed evidence of a small, previously unknown site in the southern Levant. It appears to be a small campsite used by Egyptians more than 5000 years ago. For those interested it is located at 31049'12.59" N  -   34007'01.83" (Check it out on Google Earth) Known as Teleilat (small tells) el Bahri. This 0.3 hectare site has only begun to be excavated, but it has already yielded evidence of several generations of encampments, apparently tents of a temporary nature erected on the same site over several generations. It has also yielded a small repertoire of Egyptian pottery. Included in the finds is a serekh (i.e., an early royal Egyptian symbol of a monumental building, a tomb, palace or temple) in which the name of the ruler is written in a special (name) compartment.

          >The name of this king, who lived sometime early in Dynasty 0 is one previously unknown. It is written with the hieroglyph of two raised hands, appearing doubly and should be read as Ka-wy or Ka Ka. This king Ka Ka is otherwise undocumented, although some archaeologist working in Egypt may soon turn up his tomb as the news is full of that type of happening virtually daily. King Ka Ka was presumably one of the early rulers prior to the unification of Egypt. The double name is a somewhat unusual form, but another king with a dual name is known for this early period. His name was written with a double falcon above a serekh and he is known as "Double Falcon".
          >
          >Eliot Braun, Ph D
          >Sr. Fellow WF Albright Institute of Archaeological Research, Jerusalem
          >Associate Researcher Centre de Recherche Français de Jérusalem
          >PO Box 21, Har Adar 90836 Israel
          >Tel 972-2-5345687, Cell 972-50-2231096
          >
          >
          >----------- --------- --------- -------
          >
          >Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >











          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Robert M Whiting
          ... This is categorically false. As noted in the list protocols, *all* attachments are removed by the yahoo groups listserver before a submitted
          Message 4 of 5 , Apr 3, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            On Sat, 3 Apr 2010, eliot braun wrote:

            > My apologies to one and all; I hope I've not offended any list members.
            >
            > But it was April 1 and the mood came over me. There is no such king nor
            > any such serekh, although I admit that in my original posting I added a
            > photo of a sherd I incised post firing with an image of two pairs of
            > raised hands; the list administrators removed it.
            <snip>

            This is categorically false. As noted in the list protocols, *all*
            attachments are removed by the yahoo groups listserver before a submitted
            posting is seen by the moderators. You may have been puzzled by the
            notice "[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]" that
            appears at the end of each message. This is a notice inserted by the
            listserver at yahoo groups and indicates that any attachments have been
            removed.

            New members (and apparently even those who have been members for four
            years) should be aware that *any* attempt to post an attachment to a
            message will automatically fail. This is not a matter of the action of
            the moderators but is a result of the list configuration.

            If you have a file or image that you would like list members to see for
            some reason, either post it on a web server that you have access to or
            make arrangements with one of the moderators to post it on the group's
            "Photos" or "Files" page and then link to it in your message.

            Bob Whiting
            whiting@...
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