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Origin of Judaism

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  • featherrobert
    Dear Victor, I don t doubt the people on Yeb followed a form of Judaism and worshipped YHW, in association with other associates, rather reminiscent of the
    Message 1 of 5 , Jan 4, 2010
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      Dear Victor,
      I don't doubt the people on Yeb followed a form of Judaism and worshipped YHW, in association with other associates, rather reminiscent of the Kuntillet Ajrud phenomena. The real point is – can you use what we know of their experience to correlate experience in Canaan? I think only to a limited extent. To say they `maintain contacts with Jerusalem' is not strictly true. Both Reuven Yaron, of the Hebrew University, and G.W.Anderson, University of Edinburgh, conclude we just don't know when or how the original Aramaic speaking settlers came to Elephantine. When Cymbyses and the Persians marched into Egypt, c525 BCE, they found a long-established priestly colony that worshipped YHW and Astarte – the Egyptian version of Anathbethal. They also followed Egyptian legal, fiscal, and social precedents which conformed to Egyptian practice of many centuries earlier.

      Prior to 419 BCE they appear not to have celebrated Passover. How do you explain this?

      We have to be very cautious about using evidence of their practices as even sub-streams of mainstream Judaism. The common denominator between the streams of modern Judaism you mention is that they all believe in only one G-d. E. Maclaurin's extensive study of their form of worship concludes it `could not have existed in a Hebrew group which had been exposed to the influences of Sinai and Canaan after the settlement.'

      Robert Feather , London.
    • victor avigdor hurowitz
      Dear Robert, All this is beside the point. Do you know of any other group besides people from Judah and Israel who worshipped YHW(H)? Who cares where the
      Message 2 of 5 , Jan 4, 2010
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        Dear Robert,
        All this is beside the point. Do you know of any other group besides
        people from Judah and Israel who worshipped YHW(H)? Who cares where the
        original settlers came from, but some of them called themselves yhdy' and
        I can hardly think of any other place more suited to these people's origin
        than Judah. I don't know what "mainstream" Judaism was then, but you are
        talking like an Orthodox Jew who thinks that anything but Torah True
        Judaism as interpreted in the Art Scroll Siddur and Torah Tidbits is not
        Judaism. It's amazing how truly orthodox critical scholars can be in
        denying diversity. As I said, you should be focusing on what unites these
        people
        and not what divides them. As for Maclaurin's statement cited here, I must
        confess that it is incomprehensible to me. And why do you say with
        certainty that prior to 419BCE they appear not to have celebrated
        Passover? Is the so-called Passover papyrus so well preserved and so well
        understood that we can make such a definitive statement? You're demanding
        too much of these people and reading too much into what we don't really
        know.
        Victor Hurowitz
        BGU



        On Mon, 4 Jan 2010, featherrobert wrote:

        > Dear Victor,
        > I don't doubt the people on Yeb followed a form of Judaism and worshipped YHW, in association with other associates, rather reminiscent of the Kuntillet Ajrud phenomena. The real point is – can you use what we know of their experience to correlate experience in Canaan? I think only to a limited extent. To say they `maintain contacts with Jerusalem' is not strictly true. Both Reuven Yaron, of the Hebrew University, and G.W.Anderson, University of Edinburgh, conclude we just don't know when or how the original Aramaic speaking settlers came to Elephantine. When Cymbyses and the Persians marched into Egypt, c525 BCE, they found a long-established priestly colony that worshipped YHW and Astarte – the Egyptian version of Anathbethal. They also followed Egyptian legal, fiscal, and social precedents which conformed to Egyptian practice of many centuries earlier.
        >
        > Prior to 419 BCE they appear not to have celebrated Passover. How do you explain this?
        >
        > We have to be very cautious about using evidence of their practices as even sub-streams of mainstream Judaism. The common denominator between the streams of modern Judaism you mention is that they all believe in only one G-d. E. Maclaurin's extensive study of their form of worship concludes it `could not have existed in a Hebrew group which had been exposed to the influences of Sinai and Canaan after the settlement.'
        >
        > Robert Feather , London.
        >
        >
        >
      • Clark Whelton
        ... Interesting. What else is known about this practice, and/or about the seals themselves? Clark Whelton New York
        Message 3 of 5 , Jan 4, 2010
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          Robert Feather wrote:

          >>>>>>>...Liz Fried is almost certainly correct in her dating of the
          >>>>>>>(Elephantine) settlement as existing in the 7th century BCE, but I
          >>>>>>>would say this date is conservative. For example they used 18th
          >>>>>>>dynasty seals on some of their letters...




          Interesting. What else is known about this practice, and/or about the seals
          themselves?



          Clark Whelton
          New York
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