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End of human sacrifice (Was The First Historians?)

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  • Clark Whelton
    ... george gfsomsel Unthinkable? The sacrifice of Jephtha s unnamed daughter is presented in Judges 11 as the act of one man, not as a rite required or
    Message 1 of 8 , Jun 29, 2009
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      >>>>>>> Human sacrifice (Jephtha's daughter) would have been unthinkable at
      >>>>>>> such a late (Hellenistic) date in Israel. It even seems that the
      >>>>>>> idea of animal sacrifice was coming upon hard times.
      george
      gfsomsel




      Unthinkable? The sacrifice of Jephtha's unnamed daughter is presented in
      Judges 11 as the act of one man, not as a rite required or approved by the
      people of the land. Only father and daughter seem to know about it. After
      the sacrifice, however, an annual commemoration ceremony is initiated for
      the girl, which suggests that Jephtha was what Hyam Maccoby calls a "sacred
      executioner," one who takes upon himself the responsibility for performing
      an act of human sacrifice that benefits society at large (see Maccoby's "The
      Sacred Executioner: Human Sacrifice and the Legacy of Guilt").

      Maccoby connects Jephtha with Greek traditions.

      "...Where we do find in Greek legend a complete devoted willingness on
      the part of the sacrificer, this is precisely where the sacrifice is
      actually performed and no substitute is allowed. For example, in Athens, the
      daughters of Leos were a byword for devotion to their country. Their story
      is as follows. There was a great famine in Athens in the days of Leos, son
      of Orpheus. The oracle of Delphi was consulted, and the answer was given
      that the famine would end only if a human sacrifice were offered. Upon this,
      Leos decided to offer up his three daughters, who agreed with great
      willingness to their death. After Leos had slain all three on the altar, the
      famine ended.

      "Another such story concerns Aristodemus of Messenia, who sacrificed his
      daughter in order to bring about the cessation of a plague. This kind of
      daughter sacrifice has a parallel in the Bible in the story of Jephthah, who
      vowed to sacrifice the first creature to come out of his house to greet him
      after victory over the Ammonites. This was his daughter, whom he then
      sacrificed with great sorrow. It is surprising that such explicit stories of
      human sacrifice were told with approval even when human sacrifice had been
      officially banned, both in Greece and Israel. Probably, daughter sacrifice
      was felt to be not so shocking as son sacrifice (after all, in Greece,
      daughters were expendable and were often exposed at birth). On the other
      hand, the story of Jephthah, with its cultic accompaniment (a four-day
      annual mourning rite for the fate of lephthah's daughter), may be a survival
      from the early matriarchal age, when daughters were sacrificed by
      preference, as being superior to the male."


      That which is officially unacceptable may nevertheless be practiced under
      various guises. Isn't Jephtha's story about pledging that, in return for
      victory, he would sacrifice the first creature that emerged from his home a
      way of evading blame for what was, in reality, the deliberate sacrifice of
      his daughter?

      Rome officially banned human sacrifice ca. 100 BCE, if I remember correctly,
      but blood rites continued to be practiced in other ways (gladiator games,
      crucifixion, the exposure of infants). Is it even possible to establish a
      date after which human sacrifice in the ANE totally ceased?



      Clark Whelton
      New York
    • George F Somsel
      I suppose Maccoby can say whatever he chooses; however, I challenge you to find an instance of human sacrifice which is approved in the religion of Israel
      Message 2 of 8 , Jun 29, 2009
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        I suppose Maccoby can say whatever he chooses; however, I challenge you to find an instance of human sacrifice which is approved in the religion of Israel anywhere else in the Hebrew Bible.  To say that it is "the act of one man, not as a rite required or approved by the people of the land" is to ignore the significance of the text itself. 

         
        29     וַתְּהִי עַל־יִפְתָּח רוּחַ יהוה וַיַּעֲבֹר אֶת־הַגִּלְעָד וְאֶת־מְנַשֶּׁה וַיַּעֲבֹר אֶת־מִצְפֵּה גִלְעָד וּמִמִּצְפֵּה גִלְעָד עָבַר בְּנֵי עַמּוֹן׃
        30     וַיִּדַּר יִפְתָּח נֶדֶר לַיהוה וַיֹּאמַר אִם־נָתוֹן תִּתֵּן אֶת־בְּנֵי עַמּוֹן בְּיָדִי׃
        31     וְהָיָה הַיּוֹצֵא אֲשֶׁר יֵצֵא מִדַּלְתֵי בֵיתִי לִקְרָאתִי בְּשׁוּבִי בְשָׁלוֹם מִבְּנֵי עַמּוֹן וְהָיָה לַיהוה וְהַעֲלִיתִהוּ עוֹלָה׃
         
        This was a vow made "to YHWH."  When the condition of the vow was fulfilled, so also was the consequence.  This was not a simple slaying as Samuel is said to have slain Agag but rather a holocost (וְהָיָה לַיהוה וְהַעֲלִיתִהוּ עוֹלָה).
         
        george
        gfsomsel


        … search for truth, hear truth,
        learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
        defend the truth till death.


        - Jan Hus
        _________




        ________________________________
        From: Clark Whelton <cwhelton@...>
        To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 3:04:38 PM
        Subject: [ANE-2] End of human sacrifice (Was The First Historians?)





        >>>>>>> Human sacrifice (Jephtha's daughter) would have been unthinkable at
        >>>>>>> such a late (Hellenistic) date in Israel. It even seems that the
        >>>>>>> idea of animal sacrifice was coming upon hard times.
        george
        gfsomsel

        Unthinkable? The sacrifice of Jephtha's unnamed daughter is presented in
        Judges 11 as the act of one man, not as a rite required or approved by the
        people of the land. Only father and daughter seem to know about it. After
        the sacrifice, however, an annual commemoration ceremony is initiated for
        the girl, which suggests that Jephtha was what Hyam Maccoby calls a "sacred
        executioner, " one who takes upon himself the responsibility for performing
        an act of human sacrifice that benefits society at large (see Maccoby's "The
        Sacred Executioner: Human Sacrifice and the Legacy of Guilt").

        Maccoby connects Jephtha with Greek traditions.

        "...Where we do find in Greek legend a complete devoted willingness on
        the part of the sacrificer, this is precisely where the sacrifice is
        actually performed and no substitute is allowed. For example, in Athens, the
        daughters of Leos were a byword for devotion to their country. Their story
        is as follows. There was a great famine in Athens in the days of Leos, son
        of Orpheus. The oracle of Delphi was consulted, and the answer was given
        that the famine would end only if a human sacrifice were offered. Upon this,
        Leos decided to offer up his three daughters, who agreed with great
        willingness to their death. After Leos had slain all three on the altar, the
        famine ended.

        "Another such story concerns Aristodemus of Messenia, who sacrificed his
        daughter in order to bring about the cessation of a plague. This kind of
        daughter sacrifice has a parallel in the Bible in the story of Jephthah, who
        vowed to sacrifice the first creature to come out of his house to greet him
        after victory over the Ammonites. This was his daughter, whom he then
        sacrificed with great sorrow. It is surprising that such explicit stories of
        human sacrifice were told with approval even when human sacrifice had been
        officially banned, both in Greece and Israel. Probably, daughter sacrifice
        was felt to be not so shocking as son sacrifice (after all, in Greece,
        daughters were expendable and were often exposed at birth). On the other
        hand, the story of Jephthah, with its cultic accompaniment (a four-day
        annual mourning rite for the fate of lephthah's daughter), may be a survival
        from the early matriarchal age, when daughters were sacrificed by
        preference, as being superior to the male."

        That which is officially unacceptable may nevertheless be practiced under
        various guises. Isn't Jephtha's story about pledging that, in return for
        victory, he would sacrifice the first creature that emerged from his home a
        way of evading blame for what was, in reality, the deliberate sacrifice of
        his daughter?

        Rome officially banned human sacrifice ca. 100 BCE, if I remember correctly,
        but blood rites continued to be practiced in other ways (gladiator games,
        crucifixion, the exposure of infants). Is it even possible to establish a
        date after which human sacrifice in the ANE totally ceased?

        Clark Whelton
        New York







        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Jascha Kessler
        and to whom did Agamemnon sacrifice his daughter, and by a vow? Such things are not lightly done. Jephtha was in a bad spot, and made a hasty vow. Not his
        Message 3 of 8 , Jun 30, 2009
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          and to whom did Agamemnon sacrifice his daughter, and by a vow? Such things
          are not lightly done. Jephtha was in a bad spot, and made a hasty vow. Not
          his daughter, specifically, but to the first person he laid eyes on. Hebrew
          Roulette, as it were...?Jascha Kessler

          --
          Jascha Kessler
          Professor of English & Modern Literature, UCLA
          Telephone/Facsimile: 530.684.5120
          www.jfkessler.com
          www.xlibris.com




          On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 5:46 PM, George F Somsel <gfsomsel@...> wrote:

          >
          >
          > I suppose Maccoby can say whatever he chooses; however, I challenge you to
          > find an instance of human sacrifice which is approved in the religion
          > of Israel anywhere else in the Hebrew Bible. To say that it is "the act of
          > one man, not as a rite required or approved by the people of the land" is to
          > ignore the significance of the text itself.
          >
          >
          > 29 וַתְּהִי עַל־יִפְתָּח רוּחַ יהוה וַיַּעֲבֹר אֶת־הַגִּלְעָד
          > וְאֶת־מְנַשֶּׁה וַיַּעֲבֹר אֶת־מִצְפֵּה גִלְעָד וּמִמִּצְפֵּה גִלְעָד עָבַר
          > בְּנֵי עַמּוֹן׃
          > 30 וַיִּדַּר יִפְתָּח נֶדֶר לַיהוה וַיֹּאמַר אִם־נָתוֹן תִּתֵּן
          > אֶת־בְּנֵי עַמּוֹן בְּיָדִי׃
          > 31 וְהָיָה הַיּוֹצֵא אֲשֶׁר יֵצֵא מִדַּלְתֵי בֵיתִי לִקְרָאתִי
          > בְּשׁוּבִי בְשָׁלוֹם מִבְּנֵי עַמּוֹן וְהָיָה לַיהוה וְהַעֲלִיתִהוּ עוֹלָה׃
          >
          > This was a vow made "to YHWH." When the condition of the vow was
          > fulfilled, so also was the consequence. This was not a simple slaying as
          > Samuel is said to have slain Agag but rather a holocost (וְהָיָה לַיהוה
          > וְהַעֲלִיתִהוּ עוֹלָה).
          >
          > george
          > gfsomsel
          >
          > … search for truth, hear truth,
          > learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
          > defend the truth till death.
          >
          > - Jan Hus
          > _________
          >
          > ________________________________
          > From: Clark Whelton <cwhelton@... <cwhelton%40mindspring.com>>
          > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com <ANE-2%40yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 3:04:38 PM
          > Subject: [ANE-2] End of human sacrifice (Was The First Historians?)
          >
          >
          > >>>>>>> Human sacrifice (Jephtha's daughter) would have been unthinkable at
          >
          > >>>>>>> such a late (Hellenistic) date in Israel. It even seems that the
          > >>>>>>> idea of animal sacrifice was coming upon hard times.
          > george
          > gfsomsel
          >
          > Unthinkable? The sacrifice of Jephtha's unnamed daughter is presented in
          > Judges 11 as the act of one man, not as a rite required or approved by the
          > people of the land. Only father and daughter seem to know about it. After
          > the sacrifice, however, an annual commemoration ceremony is initiated for
          > the girl, which suggests that Jephtha was what Hyam Maccoby calls a "sacred
          >
          > executioner, " one who takes upon himself the responsibility for performing
          >
          > an act of human sacrifice that benefits society at large (see Maccoby's
          > "The
          > Sacred Executioner: Human Sacrifice and the Legacy of Guilt").
          >
          > Maccoby connects Jephtha with Greek traditions.
          >
          > "...Where we do find in Greek legend a complete devoted willingness on
          > the part of the sacrificer, this is precisely where the sacrifice is
          > actually performed and no substitute is allowed. For example, in Athens,
          > the
          > daughters of Leos were a byword for devotion to their country. Their story
          > is as follows. There was a great famine in Athens in the days of Leos, son
          > of Orpheus. The oracle of Delphi was consulted, and the answer was given
          > that the famine would end only if a human sacrifice were offered. Upon
          > this,
          > Leos decided to offer up his three daughters, who agreed with great
          > willingness to their death. After Leos had slain all three on the altar,
          > the
          > famine ended.
          >
          > "Another such story concerns Aristodemus of Messenia, who sacrificed his
          > daughter in order to bring about the cessation of a plague. This kind of
          > daughter sacrifice has a parallel in the Bible in the story of Jephthah,
          > who
          > vowed to sacrifice the first creature to come out of his house to greet him
          >
          > after victory over the Ammonites. This was his daughter, whom he then
          > sacrificed with great sorrow. It is surprising that such explicit stories
          > of
          > human sacrifice were told with approval even when human sacrifice had been
          > officially banned, both in Greece and Israel. Probably, daughter sacrifice
          > was felt to be not so shocking as son sacrifice (after all, in Greece,
          > daughters were expendable and were often exposed at birth). On the other
          > hand, the story of Jephthah, with its cultic accompaniment (a four-day
          > annual mourning rite for the fate of lephthah's daughter), may be a
          > survival
          > from the early matriarchal age, when daughters were sacrificed by
          > preference, as being superior to the male."
          >
          > That which is officially unacceptable may nevertheless be practiced under
          > various guises. Isn't Jephtha's story about pledging that, in return for
          > victory, he would sacrifice the first creature that emerged from his home a
          >
          > way of evading blame for what was, in reality, the deliberate sacrifice of
          > his daughter?
          >
          > Rome officially banned human sacrifice ca. 100 BCE, if I remember
          > correctly,
          > but blood rites continued to be practiced in other ways (gladiator games,
          > crucifixion, the exposure of infants). Is it even possible to establish a
          > date after which human sacrifice in the ANE totally ceased?
          >
          > Clark Whelton
          > New York
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >



          --
          Jascha Kessler
          Professor of English & Modern Literature, UCLA
          Telephone/Facsimile: 530.684.5120
          www.jfkessler.com
          www.xlibris.com


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Kevin P. Edgecomb
          ... I write: He was not in a bad spot. He d just won a victory. Two girls are sacrificed by their fathers who are military leaders in the two separate stories,
          Message 4 of 8 , Jun 30, 2009
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            Quoting Jascha Kessler <jkessler@...>:
            > Jephtha was in a bad spot, and made a hasty vow.

            I write:
            He was not in a bad spot. He'd just won a victory.

            Two girls are sacrificed by their fathers who are military leaders in
            the two separate stories, but otherwise the similarity ends there.
            One purposefully vows her as a sacrifice in order to get good wind to
            sail off to start a war. The other, after succeeding in battle,
            accidentally vows her, and sacrifices her after a time, but gains
            nothing good from it. How are these comparable?

            It is parallelomania to suggest that these two stories are in any way
            related in their composition, whether in one direction or the other.

            Regards,
            Kevin P. Edgecomb
            Berkeley, California
          • George F Somsel
            Yes, but a person nevertheless which means that human sacrifice was anticipated from the very beginning.  Yet, there is not a word in condemnation.  Indeed,
            Message 5 of 8 , Jun 30, 2009
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              Yes, but a person nevertheless which means that human sacrifice was anticipated from the very beginning.  Yet, there is not a word in condemnation.  Indeed, a festival is founded on it.
               george
              gfsomsel


              … search for truth, hear truth,
              learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
              defend the truth till death.


              - Jan Hus
              _________




              ________________________________
              From: Jascha Kessler <jkessler@...>
              To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 10:25:58 AM
              Subject: Re: [ANE-2] End of human sacrifice (Was The First Historians?)





              and to whom did Agamemnon sacrifice his daughter, and by a vow? Such things
              are not lightly done. Jephtha was in a bad spot, and made a hasty vow. Not
              his daughter, specifically, but to the first person he laid eyes on. Hebrew
              Roulette, as it were...?Jascha Kessler

              --
              Jascha Kessler
              Professor of English & Modern Literature, UCLA
              Telephone/Facsimile : 530.684.5120
              www.jfkessler. com
              www.xlibris. com

              On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 5:46 PM, George F Somsel <gfsomsel@yahoo. com> wrote:

              >
              >
              > I suppose Maccoby can say whatever he chooses; however, I challenge you to
              > find an instance of human sacrifice which is approved in the religion
              > of Israel anywhere else in the Hebrew Bible. To say that it is "the act of
              > one man, not as a rite required or approved by the people of the land" is to
              > ignore the significance of the text itself.
              >
              >
              > 29 וַתְּהִי עַל־יִפְתָּח רוּחַ יהוה וַיַּעֲבֹר אֶת־הַגִּלְעָד
              > וְאֶת־מְנַשֶּׁה וַיַּעֲבֹר אֶת־מִצְפֵּה גִלְעָד וּמִמִּצְפֵּה גִלְעָד עָבַר
              > בְּנֵי עַמּוֹן׃
              > 30 וַיִּדַּר יִפְתָּח נֶדֶר לַיהוה וַיֹּאמַר אִם־נָתוֹן תִּתֵּן
              > אֶת־בְּנֵי עַמּוֹן בְּיָדִי׃
              > 31 וְהָיָה הַיּוֹצֵא אֲשֶׁר יֵצֵא מִדַּלְתֵי בֵיתִי לִקְרָאתִי
              > בְּשׁוּבִי בְשָׁלוֹם מִבְּנֵי עַמּוֹן וְהָיָה לַיהוה וְהַעֲלִיתִהוּ עוֹלָה׃
              >
              > This was a vow made "to YHWH." When the condition of the vow was
              > fulfilled, so also was the consequence. This was not a simple slaying as
              > Samuel is said to have slain Agag but rather a holocost (וְהָיָה לַיהוה
              > וְהַעֲלִיתִהוּ עוֹלָה).
              >
              > george
              > gfsomsel
              >
              > … search for truth, hear truth,
              > learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
              > defend the truth till death.
              >
              > - Jan Hus
              > _________
              >
              > ____________ _________ _________ __
              > From: Clark Whelton <cwhelton@mindspring .com <cwhelton%40mindspr ing.com>>
              > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com <ANE-2%40yahoogroup s.com>
              > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 3:04:38 PM
              > Subject: [ANE-2] End of human sacrifice (Was The First Historians?)
              >
              >
              > >>>>>>> Human sacrifice (Jephtha's daughter) would have been unthinkable at
              >
              > >>>>>>> such a late (Hellenistic) date in Israel. It even seems that the
              > >>>>>>> idea of animal sacrifice was coming upon hard times.
              > george
              > gfsomsel
              >
              > Unthinkable? The sacrifice of Jephtha's unnamed daughter is presented in
              > Judges 11 as the act of one man, not as a rite required or approved by the
              > people of the land. Only father and daughter seem to know about it. After
              > the sacrifice, however, an annual commemoration ceremony is initiated for
              > the girl, which suggests that Jephtha was what Hyam Maccoby calls a "sacred
              >
              > executioner, " one who takes upon himself the responsibility for performing
              >
              > an act of human sacrifice that benefits society at large (see Maccoby's
              > "The
              > Sacred Executioner: Human Sacrifice and the Legacy of Guilt").
              >
              > Maccoby connects Jephtha with Greek traditions.
              >
              > "...Where we do find in Greek legend a complete devoted willingness on
              > the part of the sacrificer, this is precisely where the sacrifice is
              > actually performed and no substitute is allowed. For example, in Athens,
              > the
              > daughters of Leos were a byword for devotion to their country. Their story
              > is as follows. There was a great famine in Athens in the days of Leos, son
              > of Orpheus. The oracle of Delphi was consulted, and the answer was given
              > that the famine would end only if a human sacrifice were offered. Upon
              > this,
              > Leos decided to offer up his three daughters, who agreed with great
              > willingness to their death. After Leos had slain all three on the altar,
              > the
              > famine ended.
              >
              > "Another such story concerns Aristodemus of Messenia, who sacrificed his
              > daughter in order to bring about the cessation of a plague. This kind of
              > daughter sacrifice has a parallel in the Bible in the story of Jephthah,
              > who
              > vowed to sacrifice the first creature to come out of his house to greet him
              >
              > after victory over the Ammonites. This was his daughter, whom he then
              > sacrificed with great sorrow. It is surprising that such explicit stories
              > of
              > human sacrifice were told with approval even when human sacrifice had been
              > officially banned, both in Greece and Israel. Probably, daughter sacrifice
              > was felt to be not so shocking as son sacrifice (after all, in Greece,
              > daughters were expendable and were often exposed at birth). On the other
              > hand, the story of Jephthah, with its cultic accompaniment (a four-day
              > annual mourning rite for the fate of lephthah's daughter), may be a
              > survival
              > from the early matriarchal age, when daughters were sacrificed by
              > preference, as being superior to the male."
              >
              > That which is officially unacceptable may nevertheless be practiced under
              > various guises. Isn't Jephtha's story about pledging that, in return for
              > victory, he would sacrifice the first creature that emerged from his home a
              >
              > way of evading blame for what was, in reality, the deliberate sacrifice of
              > his daughter?
              >
              > Rome officially banned human sacrifice ca. 100 BCE, if I remember
              > correctly,
              > but blood rites continued to be practiced in other ways (gladiator games,
              > crucifixion, the exposure of infants). Is it even possible to establish a
              > date after which human sacrifice in the ANE totally ceased?
              >
              > Clark Whelton
              > New York
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >

              --
              Jascha Kessler
              Professor of English & Modern Literature, UCLA
              Telephone/Facsimile : 530.684.5120
              www.jfkessler. com
              www.xlibris. com

              .






              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Jascha Kessler
              Something is odd here, in Berkeley. Who is Jephthah s mother? His father is named Gilead of the Gilead. Was his mother a temple prostitute? All Gilead is
              Message 6 of 8 , Jun 30, 2009
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                Something is odd here, in Berkeley. Who is Jephthah's mother? His father
                is named Gilead of the Gilead. Was his mother a temple prostitute? All
                Gilead is said to be his father. Manasseh the tribal territory. He runs
                with a bad bunch, meaning clearly that he hangs out with rejects, or
                fatherless lads. [Obama ran with a rough bunch in Hawaii, one of the coeds
                remarked early on. But never mind that.] But the Elders think might be the
                [dispensable?] leader for them. Not unusual. David was a nobody, as Saul's
                daughter regarded him. Genghis was the least of them all, but he sure
                cleaned their shields for them, all his relatives. Not parallelomania.
                Structural analogy. To get a fair wind, off with Iphigenia. To beat the
                Ammonites, first out of the door on return from battle is the daughter. Vow
                is not afterwards. That would be pointless, a holocause of gratitude. The
                God doesnt need thanks after granting favor, but imprecation beforehand.
                Not the events are parallel, since what is fact for the persons in the
                ILIAD? Similarly, what are the facts of the person in Judges, whose father
                is Gilead the Gileadeans? There is more to this than parsing. There is
                narrative poetry and legend. Who was Circe? Penelope? That later there
                is a David is pretty much a fact. But a nobody to start with.All very odd,
                but not that peculiar, as the riddle used to go.

                Jascha Kessler
                Professor of English & Modern Literature, UCLA
                Telephone/Facsimile : 530.684.5120
                www.jfkessler. com
                www.xlibris. com




                On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 1:49 PM, Kevin P. Edgecomb <kevin@...>wrote:

                >
                >
                > Quoting Jascha Kessler <jkessler@... <jkessler%40UCLA.EDU>>:
                > > Jephtha was in a bad spot, and made a hasty vow.
                >
                > I write:
                > He was not in a bad spot. He'd just won a victory.
                >
                > Two girls are sacrificed by their fathers who are military leaders in
                > the two separate stories, but otherwise the similarity ends there.
                > One purposefully vows her as a sacrifice in order to get good wind to
                > sail off to start a war. The other, after succeeding in battle,
                > accidentally vows her, and sacrifices her after a time, but gains
                > nothing good from it. How are these comparable?
                >
                > It is parallelomania to suggest that these two stories are in any way
                > related in their composition, whether in one direction or the other.
                >
                > Regards,
                > Kevin P. Edgecomb
                > Berkeley, California
                >
                >
                >



                --
                Jascha Kessler
                Professor of English & Modern Literature, UCLA
                Telephone/Facsimile: 530.684.5120
                www.jfkessler.com
                www.xlibris.com


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • George F Somsel
                It does not specifically state that she was a temple prostitute, but it definitely calls her זוֹנָהwhich is one who engages in illicit sexual
                Message 7 of 8 , Jun 30, 2009
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                  It does not specifically state that she was a temple prostitute, but it definitely calls her זוֹנָהwhich is one who engages in illicit sexual activity.  He is called "the Gileadite" AND it is stated that Gilead was his father.  It is speculated that this means "Who knows who his father was?"  It also states that "they cast him out."  "Get out of here, bastard; you have no inheritance rights." He was a companion to "worthless fellows."  Yes, we wouldn't wish to say anything regarding the "great one", would we?  He is, however, also called גִּבּוֹר חַיִל, a brave man.  He thus lived the life of Robin Hood as did David.  This is the background of the importuning of his assistance by his unaccepting brothers.  He therefore imposes the condition that he shall be their leader, and they accept the terms.  Note that it is said וַתְּהִי עַל־יִפְתָּח רוּחַ יהוה, "the spirit of YHWH came upon him." 
                  Thus what he does thereafter is considered to be by divine inspiration so he makes a vow.  This is about as close to approval as you will ever find.  It concludes with an aetiological note 
                   
                  מִיָּמִים יָמִימָה תֵּלַכְנָה בְּנוֹת יִשְׂרָאֵל לְתַנּוֹת לְבַת־יִפְתָּח הַגִּלְעָדִי אַרְבַּעַת יָמִים בַּשָּׁנָה׃
                  which gives account of the origin of the mourning festival which was practiced.george
                  gfsomsel


                  … search for truth, hear truth,
                  learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
                  defend the truth till death.


                  - Jan Hus
                  _________




                  ________________________________
                  From: Jascha Kessler <jkessler@...>
                  To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 5:39:56 PM
                  Subject: Re: [ANE-2] End of human sacrifice (Was The First Historians?)





                  Something is odd here, in Berkeley. Who is Jephthah's mother? His father
                  is named Gilead of the Gilead. Was his mother a temple prostitute? All
                  Gilead is said to be his father. Manasseh the tribal territory. He runs
                  with a bad bunch, meaning clearly that he hangs out with rejects, or
                  fatherless lads. [Obama ran with a rough bunch in Hawaii, one of the coeds
                  remarked early on. But never mind that.] But the Elders think might be the
                  [dispensable? ] leader for them. Not unusual. David was a nobody, as Saul's
                  daughter regarded him. Genghis was the least of them all, but he sure
                  cleaned their shields for them, all his relatives. Not parallelomania.
                  Structural analogy. To get a fair wind, off with Iphigenia. To beat the
                  Ammonites, first out of the door on return from battle is the daughter. Vow
                  is not afterwards. That would be pointless, a holocause of gratitude. The
                  God doesnt need thanks after granting favor, but imprecation beforehand.
                  Not the events are parallel, since what is fact for the persons in the
                  ILIAD? Similarly, what are the facts of the person in Judges, whose father
                  is Gilead the Gileadeans? There is more to this than parsing. There is
                  narrative poetry and legend. Who was Circe? Penelope? That later there
                  is a David is pretty much a fact. But a nobody to start with.All very odd,
                  but not that peculiar, as the riddle used to go.

                  Jascha Kessler
                  Professor of English & Modern Literature, UCLA
                  Telephone/Facsimile : 530.684.5120
                  www.jfkessler. com
                  www.xlibris. com

                  On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 1:49 PM, Kevin P. Edgecomb <kevin@bombaxo. com>wrote:

                  >
                  >
                  > Quoting Jascha Kessler <jkessler@UCLA. EDU <jkessler%40UCLA. EDU>>:
                  > > Jephtha was in a bad spot, and made a hasty vow.
                  >
                  > I write:
                  > He was not in a bad spot. He'd just won a victory.
                  >
                  > Two girls are sacrificed by their fathers who are military leaders in
                  > the two separate stories, but otherwise the similarity ends there.
                  > One purposefully vows her as a sacrifice in order to get good wind to
                  > sail off to start a war. The other, after succeeding in battle,
                  > accidentally vows her, and sacrifices her after a time, but gains
                  > nothing good from it. How are these comparable?
                  >
                  > It is parallelomania to suggest that these two stories are in any way
                  > related in their composition, whether in one direction or the other.
                  >
                  > Regards,
                  > Kevin P. Edgecomb
                  > Berkeley, California
                  >
                  >
                  >

                  --
                  Jascha Kessler
                  Professor of English & Modern Literature, UCLA
                  Telephone/Facsimile : 530.684.5120
                  www.jfkessler. com
                  www.xlibris. com

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Kevin P. Edgecomb
                  Jascha Kessler wrote: Something is odd here, in Berkeley. I write: Something is much odder there in Los Angeles. What is this message of yours? Theory ? It
                  Message 8 of 8 , Jun 30, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Jascha Kessler wrote:
                    Something is odd here, in Berkeley.

                    I write:
                    Something is much odder there in Los Angeles. What is this message of
                    yours? "Theory"? It is a particularly acute case of parallelomania you
                    suffer from (vide your message, passim), Professor Kessler.

                    Which edition of the Iliad mentions Iphigenia's sacrifice? That would be a
                    find. Why is not the version of Hesiod, Herodotos, or Euripides preferred,
                    which has Iphigenia whisked away by Artemis, some say to Taurus? Are they
                    not convenient for this parallel? There's a girl involved, and a guy, so
                    you should be able to work with that.

                    Try reading the Judges story, which is quite clear: the father does not
                    willingly vow his daughter.

                    Regards,
                    Kevin P. Edgecomb
                    Berkeley, California
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