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9018Re: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus/Caiphas

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  • Joe Zias
    Oct 9, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      Dealing with all the theological issues surround ossuaries is not my area of expertise, L.Y. Rahmani and Eric Meyers are still in my opinion the 'last word' of the custom. One thing however is clear and that is the coin was not placed there by the 'bone gatherers' but was placed there at time of death as it had adhered to her palate. Once the flesh had decayed after one year the coin would not have adhered.
      Joe Zias www.joezias.com
      Anthropology/Paleopathology

      Science and Antiquity Group - Jerusalem
      Jerusalem, Israel

      --- On Thu, 10/9/08, Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...> wrote:
      From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...>
      Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus/Caiphas
      To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Thursday, October 9, 2008, 1:56 PM











      There seems to be an assumption, not in evidence, that ossilegium had

      something to do with resurrection expectation. I don't think so myself,

      otherwise the HP, the chief, top dog, honcho Sadducee, would not have been

      bone-boxed. The grandaughter of the High Priest Theophilos was buried in

      Rahmani 871 which suggests to me that Theophilos was also bone-boxed in

      whatever tomb 871 originated. Interesting about the woman. There is

      evidence that some women in late second temple times still maintained

      Asherah statuettes.. .maybe for fertility. Joe, do you think that women,

      generally "outsiders" at the Beyt Yahweh, had a tendency to do their "own

      thing?" Of course, since the deceased could not have placed the coin in her

      own mouth, I wonder if it was one of the "bone-gatherers. "



      The sloppiness and quasi-literate scribbles often found on ossuaries,

      including the wealthy Caiaphas, lead me to believe that neither family

      members or othe Jews actually gathered the bones themselves.. .purity

      issues...and there may have been a class of non-Jews who performed this

      service, for a fee.



      There's a great story for a novel. A Greek bone-gatherer falls in love with

      the daughter of the High Priest and secretly places her ferry fare across

      the styx in her mouth.



      Jack



      Jack Kilmon

      San Antonio, TX



      ----- Original Message -----

      From: "Joe Zias" <joezias@yahoo. com>

      To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>

      Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 11:28 AM

      Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus/ Caiphas



      > There were two ossuaries with the family name Caiphas, one Joseph son of

      > ....and the second bearing only the family name Caiphas Unfortunately,

      > religious fanatics were stoning us during the excavation and we were

      > eventually forced to abandon the excavation, though we were fortunate to

      > take the ossuaries to the museum for examination. One interesting fact

      > though glossed over by many is that I, working alongside Ronnie Reich the

      > excavator, found a coin in situ in the palate of one of the woman in an

      > ossuary. Seems she was 'covering all her bets' with this Pagan custom and

      > in retrospect this seems to have been for me personally, one of the more

      > hypocritical customs observed due to the fact that this was the family of

      > the High Priest. Little bit of back sliding it seems. Later I spoke to

      > David Flusser about this and he asked if it was male of female, when I

      > told him it was an adult female, he simply shrugged as if to say, I'm not

      > all that surprised.

      >

      > Joe

      >

      > Joe Zias www.joezias. com

      > Anthropology/ Paleopathology

      >

      > Science and Antiquity Group - Jerusalem

      > Jerusalem, Israel

      >

      > --- On Thu, 10/9/08, Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@historian. net> wrote:

      > From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@historian. net>

      > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus

      > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com

      > Date: Thursday, October 9, 2008, 9:38 AM

      >

      >

      >

      >

      >

      >

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      > Hi George:

      >

      >

      >

      > Yes, we do have Caiphas' ossuary and the inscription on it is YHWSF BR

      > QYF)

      >

      > and not the Greek form of his name (I think Joe Zias examined the skeletal

      >

      > remains). That is why I was wondering if xxbn may be part of the

      > semitized

      >

      > name of one of the many Greek names used for the HPs. I can't speak for

      >

      > Robert and I believe he is a member here, but I am sure he meant that the

      > BN

      >

      > as a suffix could be a possibility that requires closer examination of the

      >

      > damaged margin between the broken edge of the sarc lid and the BN that

      >

      > appears to show up on the photos. I see what looks like an incised mark

      >

      > over and slightly to the right of the Beyt.

      >

      >

      >

      > I am sure that HPs like Theophilos, i.e., had Hebrew/Aramaic names in

      >

      > addition to their Greek names (even though this HPs name on his

      >

      > grandaughter' s ossuary is transliterated Greek to Hebrew). Hopefully in

      >

      > this ongoing excavation they will find other shards of this sarcophagus.

      >

      >

      >

      > The more I study the inscription from a paleographic standpoint, the more

      > I

      >

      > think it is late Hasmonean... .but this is part of an amateur's fun with

      > new

      >

      > epigraphic discoveries.

      >

      >

      >

      > Jack

      >

      >

      >

      > ----- Original Message -----

      >

      > From: "George F Somsel" <gfsomsel@yahoo. com>

      >

      > To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>

      >

      > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 5:13 PM

      >

      > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus

      >

      >

      >

      >> If you are suggesting xxBN HKHN HGDL then none of the names suggested in

      >

      >> the article as being high priests of this period would end with BN. It

      >

      >> would then likely require a different time frame (which may not be a

      >

      >> problem since I am not aware of how well-established this time frame

      >> might

      >

      >> be). I note that Caiphas is included. Do we not already have an ossuary

      >

      >> attributed to him?

      >

      >>

      >

      >> george

      >

      >> gfsomsel

      >

      >>

      >

      >>

      >

      >> . search for truth, hear truth,

      >

      >> learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,

      >

      >> defend the truth till death.

      >

      >>

      >

      >>

      >

      >> - Jan Hus

      >

      >> _________

      >

      >>

      >

      >>

      >

      >>

      >

      >> ----- Original Message ----

      >

      >> From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@historian. net>

      >

      >> To: ANE-2@yahoogroups. com

      >

      >> Sent: Tuesday, October 7, 2008 4:14:39 PM

      >

      >> Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus

      >

      >>

      >

      >>

      >

      >> No, I noted that an excellent epigrapher suggested it...I was refering to

      >

      >> Robert, of course since he is one of the best. His books have sure taught

      >

      >> me a lot. Since the text is in Hebrew I suspect that if the -BN is the

      >

      >> suffix of a name, as Robert suggests, it may be the Semitic version of

      >> one

      >

      >> of the many Greek names used.

      >

      >>

      >

      >> Regards,

      >

      >>

      >

      >> Jack Kilmon

      >

      >>

      >

      >> ----- Original Message -----

      >

      >> From: "Christopher Conlan" <chris_conlan@ yahoo.co. uk>

      >

      >> To: <ANE-2@yahoogroups. com>

      >

      >> Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 2:57 PM

      >

      >> Subject: [ANE-2] Re: High Priest sarcophagus

      >

      >>

      >

      >>>I am fairly certain that Jack Kilmon raised this possibility earlier

      >

      >>> today, and noted that there are no known High Priests whose name ends

      >

      >>> <...>bn - that would seem like a real problem with this theory.

      >

      >>>

      >

      >>> I guess that the value of the piece would be significantly higher if

      >

      >>> it is the sarcophagus of a "known" High Priest, than if it is the

      >

      >>> sarcophagus of the son of an unknown High Priest...

      >

      >>>

      >

      >>> Christopher Conlan

      >

      >>> Washington, DC

      >

      >>>

      >

      >>> --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups. com, "Robert Deutsch" <mail@...> wrote:

      >

      >>>>

      >

      >>>> Dear list members,

      >

      >>>>

      >

      >>>> The interpretation of the inscription make no sense !

      >

      >>>> Can a certain person be the son of an anonymous High Priest ?

      >

      >>>>

      >

      >>>> As the right side of the fragment is damaged and the surface

      >

      >>>> before the first visible letter is missing, I will suggest a

      >

      >>>> different reading:

      >

      >>>>

      >

      >>>> [....]bn the High Priest

      >

      >>>> Where the "...bn" is the suffix of a personal name.

      >

      >>>>

      >

      >>>> This means that the sarcophagus belongs to a named High Priest

      >

      >>>> and not to a son of an anonymous High Priest.

      >

      >>>>

      >

      >>>> Robert Deutsch

      >

      >> .

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