Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

6486RE: [ANE-2] Query: the name of King Rim-Sin of Larsa

Expand Messages
  • Robert M Whiting
    Nov 4, 2007
      On Sun, 4 Nov 2007, victor wrote:

      > I take no issue with you on these matters. I had no intention of being
      > thorough. There is, of course a question about the second possibility
      > (raised by the original poster of the question), and that is would the vowel
      > /i/ be appropriate if the rhm etymology is the appropriate one.

      I wasn't trying to imply that I found you remiss in not mentioning these
      things; I was just using your message as a starting point because it
      already contained a lot that did not have to be restated.

      For the other point, there is no way to tell from the cuneiform
      orthography {ri-im} whether the intended vowel is /i/ or /e/. The answer
      is that the vowel /i/ would be inappropriate for the root RH.M but since
      there are no separate cuneiform signs for {re} and {em} the writing is not
      diagnostic. Only a writing {ri-i-im} or {re-e-em} would be conclusive
      and, to my knowledge, these do not occur. Otherwise, the decision to
      transliterate {ri-im} or {re-em} can only be based on one's choice of the
      etymology. If one believes in 1 or 3 one should transcribe Rim-Sin; if
      one chooses 2, Rem-Sin. Again, you pays your money and you takes your

      Bob Whiting

      > _____
      > From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
      > Robert M Whiting
      > Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 3:09 PM
      > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com; ANE-2@yahoogroups.com; ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: RE: [ANE-2] Query: the name of King Rim-Sin of Larsa
      > On Sun, 4 Nov 2007, victor wrote:
      > > What has to be done now is compare the name with both etymological
      > > possibilities with other names of the period and decide which is more
      > > probable.
      > Actually, there are three etymological possibilities, not two:
      > 1. ri:mu "wild bull, aurochs"; root apparently R'M; apparently a primary
      > noun.
      > 2. rêmu "to be merciful, compassionate"; root RH.M (this is cognate with
      > Arabic and Hebrew).
      > 3. ria:mu "to present"; root presumaby RYM.
      > > If I remember correctly, Von Soden derives the Biblical name Miriam for
      > > the r’m meaning gift, but that shouldn’t prejudice our interpretation of
      > > Rim-Sin, although equations with Sin-iddinam and Iddin-Sin might tip the
      > > balances in favour of Gift of Sin.
      > You could also throw in Qi$ti-Sin, Iqi$-Sin and Sin-iqi$am.
      > > On the other hand we have Amar-Sin or Bur-Sin which would point towards
      > > the other etymology, calf of Sin.
      > The association of ri:mu with Sin comes through the horns of the bull and
      > the horns of the crescent moon. The Hebrew cognate of ri:mu, re'em, is
      > the word that is translated "unicorn" in Deut 33:17, probably based on the
      > Septuagint translation of monokero:tos, but because we now know that the
      > verse isn't talking about unicorns it should be understood as "your horns
      > are like the horns of the wild bull".
      > For 2, the most common form in names is Re:manni-DN "Have mercy on me, O,
      > DN", although a shorter form Re:m-DN "Be merciful, O, DN" is not excluded.
      > For 3, again the most common form is the feminine: Ri:mut-DN "Gift of DN",
      > but again the masculine ri:m is not impossible.
      > > Could the name be a double entendre?
      > Or a triple entendre? Actually it's more like a three-card monte; you
      > pays your money and you takes your choice.
      > Personally, I have always favored 1 because of a factor not mentioned,
      > namely, whether the attribute fits the deity of the theophoric element
      > well. For 2 I would expect Re:manni-Sin rather than Re:m-Sin and for 3 I
      > would expect Ri:mut-Sin rather than Ri:m-Sin. Your mileage may vary.
      > Bob Whiting
      > whiting@... <mailto:whiting%40cc.helsinki.fi> .fi
      > >
      > > From: ANE-2@yahoogroups. <mailto:ANE-2%40yahoogroups.com> com
      > [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups. <mailto:ANE-2%40yahoogroups.com> com] On Behalf
      > Of
      > > Giuseppe Del Monte
      > > Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 1:49 PM
      > > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups. <mailto:ANE-2%40yahoogroups.com> com;
      > ANE-2@yahoogroups. <mailto:ANE-2%40yahoogroups.com> com; ANE-2@yahoogroups.
      > <mailto:ANE-2%40yahoogroups.com> com
      > > Subject: Re: [ANE-2] Query: the name of King Rim-Sin of Larsa
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > At 01.49 04/11/2007, you wrote:
      > > ><snip>So far, I could trace two old (early 20th-century) hypotheses on
      > the
      > > >meaning of this name:
      > > >1) Rim-Sin = 'the moon-god Sin's wild bull' (from Akk.
      > > >ri:mu 'aurochs, wild bull')
      > > >2) Rim-Sin = 'Have Mercy, O Moon-god!' (from?)
      > > >Could anyone here throw more light on the etymology of this name?
      > > >Thanks in advance, and best regards.
      > > >Francesco Brighenti
      > > >Venice, Italy
      > >
      > > Well, here are two contrasting etymologies from the late 20th century:
      > > 1) CAD R (1999) p. 361b from ri:mu A "wild bull"
      > > 2) W. von Soden, AHw p. 986b (Lief. 11, 1972)
      > > from ri:mu(m) II "Geschenk (v Gott)" (from ria:mu "to present")
      > >
      > > Ah, the glamour of the science of Etymology! Of
      > > course, both (and others) are true.
      > >
      > > Saluti,
      > > Giuseppe Del Monte
    • Show all 9 messages in this topic