13129Re: A New Year's Question:
- Jan 17, 2011Dear Sirs,
"Middle Egyptian Grammar" by James Hoch (1997) states on page 32:
"1) The Forms: Of the three sets of pronouns, the suffix pronouns are by
far the most widely used,
since they are attached to nouns (and nominal forms) to express the
genitival notion and additionally
they are attached to verb forms to express the subject. The basic
function is genitival (even with verbs)
and corresponds more or less to the English possessive pronouns "my,"
"his,", "their,", etc. Of course,
when used as the subject of verbs, they must be translated by English
nominative pronouns: "I," "he,"
"they," etc. The pronouns are directly attached to the word - after the
determinative - and absolutely
nothing can separate them from the word to which they are affixed."
The term "suffix pronoun" makes sense since the pronoun is inseparably
attached to the word in question,
at least the way it is explained by Hoch, above.
This is a grammar that many students begin a study of Egyptian
hieroglyphs with with.
It is easy to read, conventional American notebook size (8 1/2" x 11 "
I find it easier to tote about than Gardiner's third edition. No
training wheels necessary!
Here is the information for proper reference:
"Middle Egyptian Grammar", ©1997 by James E. Hoch, Toronto
(SSEA Publications; v. 15)
Co-published by the Society for the Study of Egyptian Antiquities
Happy Calendrical New Year!,
Demetria Nanos, Chicago, Illinois
--- In ANEfirstname.lastname@example.org, David Lorton <davidlorton@...> wrote:
> My best wishes to all for the New Year 2011!
> When this thread began, I thought some other Egyptologist would jump
in with a response to Bob Whitingâs original inquiry.
> Since no one did, I thought I might as well make a contribution now,
though the thread died down a few days ago. Since the query had to do
with an English-language phrase, Iâll confine my response to that
> All serious students of the ancient Egyptian language (not just
demotists) begin with the stage known as Middle Egyptian. And for
decades, weâve had two outstanding grammars, each of them
intended as a research grammar but also divided, for teaching purposes,
into lessons: Sir Alan Gardiner, _Egyptian Grammar_, and the more recent
work by James P. Allen, _Middle Egyptian_. In each grammar, one of the
first items the beginner encounters is the set of pronouns in question,
which Sir Alan calls âsuffix-pronounsâ (note the hyphen)
and James Allen calls âsuffix pronounsâ (without the
hyphen). These pronouns occur in all the stages of the language, up to
and including Coptic.
> And thatâs it! The term is established in our grammars, with
the result that itâll continue to be used for a long time to
come, regardless of whether or not it happens to be infelicitous for
some technical, linguistic reason. I suppose Doug Petrovich was correct
in suggesting the term âinertiaâ to describe the
> David Lorton
> Baltimore, Maryland
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Douglas Petrovich dp@...
> >Sent: Jan 1, 2011 2:20 PM
> >To: ANEemail@example.com
> >Subject: [ANE-2] A New Year's Question: "suffix pronoun" vs
> >The prof I had for Middle and Late Egyptian at a well-established
university, who also was trained in Demotic and Hieratic, consistently
used "suffix pronoun" as opposed to "pronominal suffix", so it is no
surprise to me what you experienced with this Demotist. This seems to be
the preference among Egyptologists, and there are few things more
powerful than inertia with an attitude.
> >And incidentally, and possibly non-coincidentally, this prof revealed
his hatred of English grammar when once our discussion digressed from
Egyptian grammar to English grammar. The amazing thing to see was his
supreme gift at handling Egyptian grammar vs. his distain and lack of
confidence when turning to English grammar.
> >Technically speaking, "suffix pronoun" features two nouns, and thus
is grammatically incorrect in English. The only legitimate alternative
would be to hyphenate the words ("suffix-pronoun"), which essentially is
the cowardly way out. So, one is left to ask, "Is it a suffix, or is it
a pronoun?" This is what has led several of our respondents to suggest
"suffixed pronoun" as a viable alternative.
> >In reference to one of your other comments along these lines, I would
suggest to you that the two grammatically acceptable choices ("suffix
pronoun" not being one of them) are indeed completely interchangeable,
and that there is NO matter of using one or the other to stress the
pronoun or the noun. This is an artificial notion.
> >The only other matter worth mentioning is that the respondent who
prefers "suffixed pronoun" likely reveals the "gut feeling" of most
native English speakers who are neither familiar or comfortable with the
established pronominal form for the word pronoun, which--in this
case-happens to be the word "pronominal".
> >Why abandon the established form for the one chosen? Many of us are
just not comfortable using what is so unfamiliar. Honestly, though, most
of us do the same with a wide variety of other adjectives, as well. For
example, we tend to say "participle form" over "participial form", and
so on. This is just a lack of discipline leading to a dumbing down.
> >We, as academics, do not like to associate ourselves with a
derogatory term such as "dumbing down", but the reality is that we also
are guilty of this in numerous ways, despite our love for precision and
erudition. Part of humility, however, is being willing to call a spade a
spade, even when it may be self-incriminating.
> >Hoping this helps,
> >Doug Petrovich
> >Toronto, CA
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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