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13078Re: [ANE-2] A New Year's Question: "suffix pronoun" vs "pronominal suffix"

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  • Frank Polak
    Jan 1, 2011
      Actually, I think, "suffix pronoun" is the better term. After all, the
      possessive/object/dative suffix
      (and the nominative suffix, if you think of the stative endings) are
      interchangeable with
      independent pronouns (and in the textual tradition also with nouns),
      but not with, e.g., enclitic particles.

      A happy new year,

      Frank Polak

      On 01/01/2011, at 01:18, Robert M Whiting wrote:

      > A question arose the other day about the use of "suffix pronoun" in
      > contrast to "pronominal suffix". I preferred the latter in a certain
      > context but was told that "suffix pronoun" is the established term
      > among
      > demotists and that besides, "it's a bit more than a mere pronominal
      > suffix."
      > Now I would maintain that "suffix pronoun" and "pronominal suffix" are
      > completely interchangeable (unlike some adjective-noun pairs like,
      > say,
      > "house cat" and "cat house") and using one or the other at any given
      > time
      > would depend on whether one wanted to stress the pronoun or the suffix
      > aspect of the beast. I would also expect the grammatically correct
      > "pronominal suffix" to be slightly preferred over the less robust
      > "suffix
      > pronoun" (with the more correct "suffixed pronoun" perhaps sharing the
      > honors_).
      > Well, demotists are strange creatures in any case, but are they really
      > biased towards "suffix pronoun" over "pronominal suffix"? To test this
      > conumdrum, I took the example of Marc Cooper and headed for The
      > Google.
      > These are the results of several searches (if they are difficult to
      > read,
      > switch to a fixed font):
      > "pronominal suffix" phoenician | About 3,170 results
      > "suffix pronoun" phoenician | About 220 results
      > "pronominal suffix" arabic | About 13,800 results
      > "suffix pronoun" arabic | About 1,250 results
      > "pronominal suffix" hebrew | About 36,000 results
      > "suffix pronoun" hebrew | About 1,280 results
      > "pronominal suffix" akkadian | About 5,030
      > "suffix pronoun" akkadian | About 317 results
      > "pronominal suffix" ugaritic | About 4,100 results
      > "suffix pronoun" ugaritic | About 174 results
      > "pronominal suffix" ethiopic | About 3,200 results
      > "suffix pronoun" ethiopic | About 308 results
      > "pronominal suffix" "semitic languages" |About 3,430 results
      > "suffix pronoun" "semitic languages" |About 356 results
      > "pronominal suffix" egyptian | About 12,400 results
      > "suffix pronoun" egyptian | About 2,490 results
      > "pronominal suffix" coptic | About 1,270 results
      > "suffix pronoun" coptic | About 720 results
      > "pronominal suffix" demotic | About 277 results
      > "suffix pronoun" demotic | About 459 results
      > The usual caveats about Google searchs apply: There are doubtless
      > numerous ovrlaps in the search results, but I think it likely that
      > these
      > will only increase the size of the numbers, not their relative
      > proportions.
      > The results are astonishing (at least to me). While semitists prefer
      > "pronominal suffix" over "suffix pronoun" by at least 10 to 1 (several
      > times this in some categories), demotists actually prefer "suffix
      > pronoun"
      > by about 5 to 3. Furthermore, other Egyptological branches also seem
      > to
      > be more amenable to "suffix pronoun", with Egyptian at only 5 to 1 in
      > favor of "pronominal suffix" (due to the search parameters, there
      > may a
      > large number of Egyptian Arabic examples included in this number) and
      > Coptic at less than 2 to 1 in favor.
      > So the claim that "suffix pronoun" is established among demotists,
      > would
      > seem to be borne out, and now comes the question: Why is this so?
      > Why do
      > demotists reverse a universal trend and prefer "suffix pronoun" over
      > "pronominal suffix"? I am loathe to ascribe this to the natural
      > perverseness of demotists, so there must be some reason why this
      > particular discipline bucks a trend that is obvious, if not
      > overwhelming,
      > among semitists. Is it based on a translation from some master
      > demotist
      > whose word cannot be altered? Does it have it roots it the wider
      > field of
      > Egyptology, which seems to be several times more tolerant of "suffix
      > pronoun" than its semitist countepart?
      > A second question is: Does anyone have any reason to believe that
      > there
      > is any difference in meaning between "suffix pronoun" and "pronominal
      > suffix"? Does anyone claim, or know of anyone who claims, that a
      > "suffix
      > pronoun" and a "pronominal suffix" are different things? Is this an
      > idea
      > that is current among demotists?
      > Any help is welcome, but especially from those who plough the
      > vowelless
      > wastes of ancient Egyptian.
      > Bob Whiting
      > whiting@...

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