11897YH and the Shasu
- Jan 5, 2010I am interested to see Robert Feather mentioning my Hebrew teacher E C
B Maclaurin (Sydney University 1959, and I had Rabbi Israel Porush for
Mishnaic Hebrew), and also the Shasu (see below).
Thomas Thompson says :"theYahu of the Shasw is somewhat uncertain"
Well now, among the epigraphical materials that people are feeding to
me these days are the graffiti from Har Karkom (the True Mount Horeb/
- at least two stones have proto-alphabetic YH (arm, jubilater) [ --
< >-E ], Late Bronze Age
- one rock has ' l ('alep lamed, ox crook) next to Sh S (sun, fish)
"El of the Shasu"
When I feel a bit more confident about this set, I will put them all
on my cryptcracker site.
One of them seems to be a sign for a dried up spring, and looking
again at the Timnah inscription reported here around the 27th of
August 2009, in two linked cartouches, it has just occurred to me:
the Eye could represent `ayin 'spring' (as a rebus) as in three of
the Sinai inscriptions;
M M R could say "water of bitterness" (R a head, not the illusion of a
L Dh K would be: " Not (L) pure (DhK)"
The sun-serpent with sun disc says Sh or ShMSh 'sun'
If the three lines could be the spinal column (the alternative Samek,
which eventually displaced the fish), we have ShS (Shasu).
It's all guesswork, you know, even when we can recognize all the signs.
It could be Dh L K (This is for you) K L Dh (All this)
The signs = ( [ ] (Dh Hh) house with round courtyard, H.asir, suggest
Hh M M R "This spring is hot and bitter" (feminine -t would be
expected if these are adjectives).
But I do cryptic and codecracker crossword puzzles to get my brain
hopping around and primed up for these real-life puzzles.
Massey University, NZ
On 5/01/2010, at 4:24 AM, victor avigdor hurowitz wrote:
> I won't deny posssibility, but would you really prefer associating the
> Yahuists of Yeb with the Shasu? And how do you explain a sudden
> appearance of Yahu names in Mesopotamia in post-Iron Age contexts? I
> prefer to go with what is most likely. I
> prefer putting puzzles together to taking them apart even when the
> fit nicely.
> On Mon, 4 Jan 2010, Thomas L. Thompson wrote:
>> Dear Victor,
>> Of course, the Yahu of the Shasw is somewhat uncertain.
>> Nevertheless, there seems to have been a Yahu not only in Samaria
>> but also in Teman and there was, I believe, a Yaubidi at Hamat.
>> There are also a considerable number of Yahu names in Mesopotamia
>> in post-Iron Age contexts. Arguments of convenience, of course,
>> should have no trouble associating them with either Jews or
>> Samaritans, but why deny possibilities of greater diversity?
>> Cheers, Thomas
>> Thomas L. Thompson
>> Professor emeritus, University of Copenhagen
>> Fra: ANEfirstname.lastname@example.org på vegne af victor avigdor hurowitz
>> Sendt: ma 04-01-2010 15:22
>> Til: featherrobert
>> Cc: ANEemail@example.com
>> Emne: Re: [ANE-2] Origin of Judaism
>> Dear Robert,
>> All this is beside the point. Do you know of any other group besides
>> people from Judah and Israel who worshipped YHW(H)? Who cares where
>> original settlers came from, but some of them called themselves
>> yhdy' and
>> I can hardly think of any other place more suited to these people's
>> than Judah. I don't know what "mainstream" Judaism was then, but
>> you are
>> talking like an Orthodox Jew who thinks that anything but Torah True
>> Judaism as interpreted in the Art Scroll Siddur and Torah Tidbits
>> is not
>> Judaism. It's amazing how truly orthodox critical scholars can be in
>> denying diversity. As I said, you should be focusing on what unites
>> and not what divides them. As for Maclaurin's statement cited here,
>> I must
>> confess that it is incomprehensible to me. And why do you say with
>> certainty that prior to 419BCE they appear not to have celebrated
>> Passover? Is the so-called Passover papyrus so well preserved and
>> so well
>> understood that we can make such a definitive statement? You're
>> too much of these people and reading too much into what we don't
>> Victor Hurowitz
>> On Mon, 4 Jan 2010, featherrobert wrote:
>>> Dear Victor,
>>> I don't doubt the people on Yeb followed a form of Judaism and
>>> worshipped YHW, in association with other associates, rather
>>> reminiscent of the Kuntillet Ajrud phenomena. The real point is -
>>> can you use what we know of their experience to correlate
>>> experience in Canaan? I think only to a limited extent. To say
>>> they `maintain contacts with Jerusalem' is not strictly true. Both
>>> Reuven Yaron, of the Hebrew University, and G.W.Anderson,
>>> University of Edinburgh, conclude we just don't know when or how
>>> the original Aramaic speaking settlers came to Elephantine. When
>>> Cymbyses and the Persians marched into Egypt, c525 BCE, they found
>>> a long-established priestly colony that worshipped YHW and Astarte
>>> - the Egyptian version of Anathbethal. They also followed Egyptian
>>> legal, fiscal, and social precedents which conformed to Egyptian
>>> practice of many centuries earlier.
>>> Prior to 419 BCE they appear not to have celebrated Passover. How
>>> do you explain this?
>>> We have to be very cautious about using evidence of their
>>> practices as even sub-streams of mainstream Judaism. The common
>>> denominator between the streams of modern Judaism you mention is
>>> that they all believe in only one G-d. E. Maclaurin's extensive
>>> study of their form of worship concludes it `could not have
>>> existed in a Hebrew group which had been exposed to the influences
>>> of Sinai and Canaan after the settlement.'
>>> Robert Feather , London.
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