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10384Re: Reading the Qumran ink bromine

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  • dastacey62
    Apr 4, 2009
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      Very simply - if you are going to carry out scientific tests you must test for all possibilities - not reject the chance that organic material absorb bromine near the Dead Sea for the curious reason that the scroll was one of the first to be bought by Sukenic!

      No scroll has been found by archaeologists in a sealed jar so it is far fetched to assume that the jars were hermetically sealed after 2ooo years in a cave. Crowfoot never questioned that the linen wrappers had absorbed salts. Show me measurements that would prove that parchment does not absorb bromine after 2000 years. And remember that Lake Lisan had a high bromine content and would have flooded all the caves 11000 years ago which would have become saturated in bromine.

      I am not a librarian and the academic library I use has not yet received RevQ for 2008 so I can't comment.

      Archaeologically the dam was built in the time of Herod. It was a substantial building requiring a high level of technological expertise - even Eshel accepts that 'the aqueduct bringing water to the site is short but highly sophisticated, and required the use of Roman measuring instruments and technology' (EncyDSS p232). I have never ever said that "Herod had established
      > Qumran as a major supply and manufacturing for export hub" If you read what I have actually written you will see that I suggest that the site was an industrial suburb of the Jericho estate in the Hasmonean era making things mainly for local consumption. Herod had an ambitious building programme at many sites. He needed to get building supplies and victuals to them and Qumran was conveniently located to act as a distribution centre, providing its water supply was improved to allow for some marginal year round occupation during the finite time he was actually engaged in building eg Masada, Hyrcania, Macaerus and even Herodium. It was a utilitarian building never envisaged for long term permanent occupation.

      Do you deny that Herod had slaves? Josephus mentions many en passant. Not all were household slaves. Perhaps some filled the gap in the large labour force needed to build all his palaces???

      Hasmonean coinage remained in use in Herod's time and is often more plentiful than any coins minted by Herod.

      David Stacey

      --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups.com, goranson@... wrote:
      >
      > I welcome further measurements and experiments with ink. If it is true
      > that the Dead Sea is the world's largest reservoir of bromine, then this
      > presents a remarkable research opportunity, as the Rabin et al. article (DSD 16
      > [2009] 97-106) quite properly and scientifically recognized.
      >
      > As for Trudy's suggestion--made after I sent my last post--that, possibly,
      > plants burned for soot could have contributed significant (quite high amount)
      > bromime to the ink, though I doubt it, I would welcome tests and measurements.
      > And, by the way, I would ask, what plants and in what area might have
      > such quite high bromine remaining after burning and where would they get such
      > putative high bromine? Possibly...Dead Sea water? Small trace amounts don't
      > suffice here. I am not a botanist, but I will guess that Dead Sea water has
      > more bromine in it than any living plant outside of a Dr. Seuss book.
      >
      > As for David's apparent suggestion that 1QH was penned, oh, anywhere as
      > long as not Qumran, and brought there whereupon the ink became an amazing wick
      > sucking up bromine, markedly more so than the skin, though such was not the
      > case with calcium, and though 1QH was in a cave above Qumran, not in a damper
      > marl cave below Qumran, and was, reportedly, found in a ceramic jar, a jar
      > sealed with a lid, and perhaps within a linen wrapper, well, I wouldn't bet on
      > it. But David has. Show me measurements that support that desperate scenario.
      >
      > As for differences between the caves above and below Kh. Qumran,
      > consider, e.g. Hanan Eshel's article in the current Revue de Qumran 23.4 92
      > (2008) 529-31, "A Note on 11QPsalms d Fragment 1, and why that piece of marl,
      > with a reverse imprint of writing on it probably didn't come from Cave 11, but
      > from a marl cave.
      >
      > There's more to be said about scribe's water containers and distinguishing oat
      > gall and iron components and inkwells and scribal practices and reed and date
      > fibre pens, and questions about the article that have yet gone unremarked, but,
      > for now, back to David's demanded scenario of a Herod-built dam.
      >
      > If Herod had built a dam (though others could have), why isn't Kh. Qumran
      > characteristic of Herod's architectural constructions? If Herod had established
      > Qumran as a major supply and manufacturing for export hub, why are there no good
      > roads to and from Qumran, according to Gibson, Shimon. "Roads and Passes Round
      > Qumran," Palestine Exploration Quarterly 140/3 (2008) 225-227--surely no
      > Herod-built roads? Why relatively few Herod coins? Why imagined slaves, men,
      > without women slaves? Where are the overseer's finer quarters? No textual
      > evidence; no mention of Herod? Proposals that bracket off and ignore evidence
      > cannot be relied upon. those who look at archaeology without scrolls (which are
      > artifacts) and Josephus, Philo and Pliny, or vice versa, ought not proclaim
      > about what they previously excluded from consideration.
      >
      > Those who imagine aristocratic Sadducees at non-aristocratic Qumran might to
      > well to consider David Flusser, "4QMMT and the Benediction Against the Minim,"
      > (tr. by A. Yadin, from Tarbiz) in Judaism of the Second Temple Period (2007),
      > pages 79-118. It's not the final word on the subject, but a help with the
      > diachronic calculus of names.
      >
      > Stephen Goranson
      > http://www.duke.edu/~goranson/jannaeus.pdf
      > "Jannaeus, His Brother Absalom, and Judah the Essene"
      > http://www.duke.edu/~goranson/Essenes_&_Others.pdf
      >
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