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10032Re: [ANE-2] Re: daming [formerly ink from a Dead Sea Scroll ...]

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  • JEFFREY A BLAKELY
    Mar 3, 2009
      Good Morning

      Barrage dams feeding sluices and watering fields were a bit of a "doodle" by even 1200 BC in Yemen. If you look around Saba and Qataban evidence for them is all over the place in remnants and in agricultural fields built up by the silt in the runoff produced during floods. If you want a good example see the Marib Dam, a truly massive dam capable of taking on an incredible deluge and a dam that was in use for over a millennium. It is hard to believe that the knowledge did not reach the other end of the trade route.

      Jeffrey A. Blakely
      Madison, WI

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: dastacey62 <DAVID.STACEY63@...>
      Date: Tuesday, March 3, 2009 4:04 am
      Subject: [ANE-2] Re: ink from a Dead Sea Scroll made near the Dead Sea
      To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com


      > Most of these dams are, are they not, on a fairly minor scale and
      > would not have had to withstand the sort of terrific force present
      > in flash floods as they thunder down Nahal Qumran. The power of such
      >
      > flash floods is an awesome sight. The dam at Qumran would have been 4
      >
      > or 5 metres high and would have needed to have walls at least 3m
      > thick at the base. Yet it probably needed some sort of sluice system
      >
      > to, if necessary, relieve the pressure of the initial torrent. This
      > required considerable hydrological knowledge and was not your average
      >
      > agricultural installation.
      >
      > David Stacey
      > -
      > -- In ANE-2@yahoogroups.com, "theodc25" <chesnut@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Quite close to Qumran, is the Buqe'ah Valley which has substantial
      > > evidence of intensive agricultural production including dams,
      > > terraces, and walls built for pools. The major sites in valley are
      > > Khirbet Abu Tabaq, Khirbet es-Samrah, and Khirbet el-Maqari
      > partially
      > > excavated by Cross and Milik, and further research was done by
      > Stager.
      > > The sites, terracing, and dams are all dated around the 8th/7th
      > > century BCE based on lmlk jars and other pottery found at the
      > sites.
      > >
      > > It has been suggested that much of this area was reused in the 3rd
      > > cent BCE-1st cent CE, because of the close proximity of Hyrcania, a
      > > Roman road running through the valley to Qumran, and some late
      > > Hellenistic/early Roman pottery that was found at the forts. Also
      > I
      > > thought there were dams around Masada?
      > >
      > > Owen Chesnut
      > > Ph.D. Candidate
      > > Andrews University
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups.com, "dastacey62" <DAVID.STACEY63@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Well Joe, that's odd - there are no major dams at Masada or
      > Jericho
      > > > where you say they are necessary, and in fact the only two major
      >
      > > > Second Temple dams are in Caesarea and Jerusalem where you say
      > they
      > > > are unnecessary... curioser and curiouser
      > > >
      > > > David Stacey
      > > >
      > > > UK
      > > > --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Zias" <joezias@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > David Stacey on the subject of dams in antiquity writes "If it
      >
      > was
      > > > all so
      > > > > easy why didn't every Tom, Dick or Harry build dams all over
      > the
      > > > country?"
      > > > > The answer is simple, in the desert areas where rain fall is
      > > > minimal as in
      > > > > Masada, Qumran and Jericho, dams are necessary to collect
      > runoff
      > > > from higher
      > > > > elevations. In areas where there is adequate seasonal rainfall
      >
      > or
      > > > springs,
      > > > > such as Jerusalem, Caesarea, Beit Shean ect, they are
      > unnecessary.
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Joe Zias
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > From: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ANE-2@yahoogroups.com] On
      > > > Behalf Of
      > > > > dastacey62
      > > > > Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 9:51 AM
      > > > > To: ANE-2@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > Subject: [ANE-2] Re: ink from a Dead Sea Scroll made near the
      > Dead
      > > > Sea
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > So Joe, Building a dam 4 to 5 m high, with walls on average
      > perhaps
      > > > > 2.5 m thick, perhaps with foundations cut into the bedrock, was
      >
      > all
      > > > a
      > > > > bit of a doddle. The fact that no trace of it has survived the
      >
      > > > floods
      > > > > of the past 2000 years indicates the forces it had to
      > withstand. If
      > > > > it was all so easy why didn't every Tom, Dick or Harry build
      > dams
      > > > all
      > > > > over the country? The fact is that only Herod seems to have had
      >
      > the
      > > > > necessary knowledge and resources which he put to use in his
      > two
      > > > > prestigious city water systems; for the high-level aqueduct at
      >
      > > > > Caesarea, and the Wadi el-Biyar dam in the Solomons Pool system
      >
      > > > > outside Jerusalem.
      > > > > David Stacey
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In ANE-2@yahoogroups.com < ,
      > Joe
      > > > Zias
      > > > > <joezias@> wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > David Stacey writes in connection to Goransons post the
      > > > > following::The only dams from the Second Temple period of which
      >
      > I
      > > > am
      > > > > >
      > > > > > aware are both considered to be the work of Herod and are
      > > > integral
      > > > > >
      > > > > > parts of the water systems of two of his most prestigious
      > cities,
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Jerusalem and Caesarea (high level aqueduct). Neither would
      > have
      > > > > had
      > > > > >
      > > > > > to withstand the same ferocity of floods as in Qumran.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > I would like to remind readers that a few kms up the road in
      >
      > the
      > > > > 8th millineum BC the folks in Jericho were already constructing
      >
      > > > dams.
      > > > > For the folks in Qumran I doub't if this was any mean feat,
      > some
      > > > > 8,000 yrs later.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Joe
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Joe Zias www.joezias.com
      > > > > > Anthropology/Paleopathology
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Science and Antiquity Group - Jerusalem
      > > > > > Jerusalem, Israel
      > > > > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
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