Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

## How to do it

Expand Messages
• Before I start, can I say as a new member of this group that I am not highly educated, I have just done a lot of thinking and read a lot of books. What follows
Message 1 of 5 , Oct 9, 2001
Before I start, can I say as a new member of this group that I am not
highly educated, I have just done a lot of thinking and read a lot of
books. What follows is a supplemented copy of a posting to the
free-energy group run by Eric Krieg. There is another posting on that
site relating to the theory behind what follows if you wish to look it
up.

There are several machines available that can convert heat at ambient
temperature into mechanical work. However all of the exisiting ones rely
on the small changes that occur in temperature: between day and night,
mountains and plains, sea and land, latitude or season. In other words,
weather. If it wasn't for weather, you would never get water existing in
an atmosphere at less than 100% humidity. The dipping bird does not work
unless you have water in an atmosphere of less than 100% humidity.
Another example of this is the "Atmos" clock which uses small
temperature variations to wind up a spring. They are manufactured by the
Swiss firm Jaeger. (My brother has one of these clock which has been
working continuously now for 30 years!).

While there is no doubt that these machines work and do convert heat at
ambient heat into mechanical work, It is very difficult to get one of
these machines to generate significant amounts of power. The reason is
that the temperature differences available are small. The second law of
thermodynamics says that the efficiency of any heat engine is limited to
(Tmax-Tmin)/Tmax (all temperatures in degrees Kelvin). This efficiency
limit is called the Carnot efficiency. The expression of the 2nd law
that forbids a higher efficiency is called the Kelvin expression of the
2nd law of thermodynamics. If we could find a way around the 2nd law, we
could do better, but surely it would be a good idea to know more about
the 2nd law before attempting to find a way around it.

Now let us suppose we have a machine that causes a mass of material at
ambient temperature and splits it into half at high temperature and half
at low temperature. No energy would be created. The 1st law of
thermodynamics (which says that energy cannot be either created or
destroyed) would not be violated and we would then have the basis of a
way of creating large amounts of energy from heat at ambient
temperature. Unfortunately there is another expression of the 2nd law of
thermodynamics called the Clausius expression which says such a machine
is impossible. This says that "No process is possible in which the sole
result is the transfer of of energy from a cooler body to a hotter one".

The common notion of a perpetual motion machine is a machine that
creates something out of nothing. In scientific terms, this is called a
perpetual mobile of the first kind; because it would break the 1st law
of thermodynamics. What this group was set up to develop is not this
kind of folly. What Boyd proposes is not that kind of perpetual motion
machine. It is unfortunate that the scientific name for what we are
about is "a perpetuum mobile of the 2nd kind": because it would violate
the 2nd law of thermodynamics. It is unfortuante because if there really
reasons why such a machine cannot work, they have nothing to do with the
reaosns why the first kind of machine will not work. Nevertheless the
scientific name tars us with the same brush by using a similar name.

The machine described below is intended to generate a spontaneous
temperature difference between two objects. No energy input is required
other than heat at ambient temperature. It violates the second law. That
is the tricky bit and so only that part is described. To turn this heat
difference into usable energy would require one of many available heat
engines. The exact type is not important but to try and keep the
"machine" free of moving parts, I would suggest a semiconductor
thermocouple such as a Peltier device working in reverse. The whole
device would reduce the temperature of its surroundings once the heat
engine was added and supplying power. Some of the heat into work and so
the 1st law would not be violated.

The device consists of two plates, separated by a vacuum and in thermal
equilibrium. Thermal equilibrium is achieved when the power of heat
radiated is equal to the power of heat absorbed. Since the process of
photon absorption is the exact reverse of the process of photon
emission, the ability of a surface to radiate heat is exactly matched by
its ability to absorb heat at the same wavelength. Thus thermal
equilibrium is achieved when the two plates are at the same temperature:
irrespective of the surface properties of the plates.

One of the plates, plate A, is covered with a material that emits (and
absorbs) far infra-red radiation at about 10um: the peak wavelength of
black-body radiation at 20 degrees Celsius. It is reflective at shorter
wavelengths. The other plate, plate B, has a surface wich absorbs (and
emits) at 5um, the peak wavelength for black body radiation at about 300
degrees Celsius. It is reflective at longer wavelengths. This
arrangement means that there is actually very little radiative transfer
of heat between the two plates. Plate A radiates heat at a rate of about
20 Watts per square metre, but most of that radiation is reflected by
plate B. Nevertheless, some heat must be transferred and thermal
equilibrium is reached with the plates at the same temperature.

Now comes the clever bit. A material is placed between the two plates
that has the same property as that used for laser frequency doublers. It
distorts the electromagnetic radiation so that some of the light is
up-converted to twice the frequency: half the wavelength. This
particular material is active at a wavelength of 10um, some of which it
converts to 5um.

Some of the heat radiated from plate A is converted by the material to a
wavelength of 5um. This heat falls upon plate B and is completely
absorbed. however this material does not do the same in reverse. it does
not convert the 5um radiation emitted from plate B into 10um on the
return journey. (It is impossible for distortion to create harmonics at
a lower frequency.) In short, it is the kind of microscopic process
referred to in my earlier email that is not time symmetrical.
Consequently very little heat returns from plate B onto plate A.

Thermal equilibrium is still reached. however it can now only be reached
when the two plates are at different temperatures. Some heat will leak
back from plate B to plate A, however not as much as reaches plate B
from plate A.

Possible flaws:

Such materials only work with coherent light.
Such materials only work at the high light intensities found at the
output of lasers.
Such materials do not work at the same colour temperatuere as the light
they convert.

I would welcome any comments. I am particularly interested in anyone who
work with lasers or optics and might know something about these light
frequency doubling materials and whether or not any of the possible
flaws I outlined above are in fact the case. I am finding it difficult
to track this information down.

Bob Lerwill
• Hello Bob, despite the fact, that I am no specialist in the realm of laser technology, your idea (A material is placed between the two plates that has the same
Message 2 of 5 , Oct 11, 2001
Hello Bob,

despite the fact, that I am no specialist in the realm of laser
technology, your idea (A material is placed between the two plates
that has the same property as that used for laser
frequency doublers.) sounds interesting at least for a
experiment....so, you should TRY IT, so we all may learn by that.
But I think, that radiation in the two plates you described, will be
very very low in its ambient condition.

Hubert

--- In AMBIENTENERGY@y..., Robert Lerwill <bob.mo@v...> wrote:
> Before I start, can I say as a new member of this group that I am
not
> highly educated, I have just done a lot of thinking and read a lot
of
> books. What follows is a supplemented copy of a posting to the
> free-energy group run by Eric Krieg. There is another posting on
that
> site relating to the theory behind what follows if you wish to look
it
> up.
>
> There are several machines available that can convert heat at
ambient
> temperature into mechanical work. However all of the exisiting ones
rely
> on the small changes that occur in temperature: between day and
night,
> mountains and plains, sea and land, latitude or season. In other
words,
> weather. If it wasn't for weather, you would never get water
existing in
> an atmosphere at less than 100% humidity. The dipping bird does not
work
> unless you have water in an atmosphere of less than 100% humidity.
> Another example of this is the "Atmos" clock which uses small
> temperature variations to wind up a spring. They are manufactured by
the
> Swiss firm Jaeger. (My brother has one of these clock which has been
> working continuously now for 30 years!).
>
> While there is no doubt that these machines work and do convert heat
at
> ambient heat into mechanical work, It is very difficult to get one
of
> these machines to generate significant amounts of power. The reason
is
> that the temperature differences available are small. The second law
of
> thermodynamics says that the efficiency of any heat engine is
limited to
> (Tmax-Tmin)/Tmax (all temperatures in degrees Kelvin). This
efficiency
> limit is called the Carnot efficiency. The expression of the 2nd law
> that forbids a higher efficiency is called the Kelvin expression of
the
> 2nd law of thermodynamics. If we could find a way around the 2nd
law, we
> could do better, but surely it would be a good idea to know more
> the 2nd law before attempting to find a way around it.
>
> Now let us suppose we have a machine that causes a mass of material
at
> ambient temperature and splits it into half at high temperature and
half
> at low temperature. No energy would be created. The 1st law of
> thermodynamics (which says that energy cannot be either created or
> destroyed) would not be violated and we would then have the basis of
a
> way of creating large amounts of energy from heat at ambient
> temperature. Unfortunately there is another expression of the 2nd
law of
> thermodynamics called the Clausius expression which says such a
machine
> is impossible. This says that "No process is possible in which the
sole
> result is the transfer of of energy from a cooler body to a hotter
one".
>
> The common notion of a perpetual motion machine is a machine that
> creates something out of nothing. In scientific terms, this is
called a
> perpetual mobile of the first kind; because it would break the 1st
law
> of thermodynamics. What this group was set up to develop is not this
> kind of folly. What Boyd proposes is not that kind of perpetual
motion
> machine. It is unfortunate that the scientific name for what we are
> about is "a perpetuum mobile of the 2nd kind": because it would
violate
> the 2nd law of thermodynamics. It is unfortuante because if there
really
> reasons why such a machine cannot work, they have nothing to do with
the
> reaosns why the first kind of machine will not work. Nevertheless
the
> scientific name tars us with the same brush by using a similar name.
>
> The machine described below is intended to generate a spontaneous
> temperature difference between two objects. No energy input is
required
> other than heat at ambient temperature. It violates the second law.
That
> is the tricky bit and so only that part is described. To turn this
heat
> difference into usable energy would require one of many available
heat
> engines. The exact type is not important but to try and keep the
> "machine" free of moving parts, I would suggest a semiconductor
> thermocouple such as a Peltier device working in reverse. The whole
> device would reduce the temperature of its surroundings once the
heat
> engine was added and supplying power. Some of the heat into work and
so
> the 1st law would not be violated.
>
> The device consists of two plates, separated by a vacuum and in
thermal
> equilibrium. Thermal equilibrium is achieved when the power of heat
> radiated is equal to the power of heat absorbed. Since the process
of
> photon absorption is the exact reverse of the process of photon
> emission, the ability of a surface to radiate heat is exactly
matched by
> its ability to absorb heat at the same wavelength. Thus thermal
> equilibrium is achieved when the two plates are at the same
temperature:
> irrespective of the surface properties of the plates.
>
> One of the plates, plate A, is covered with a material that emits
(and
> absorbs) far infra-red radiation at about 10um: the peak wavelength
of
> black-body radiation at 20 degrees Celsius. It is reflective at
shorter
> wavelengths. The other plate, plate B, has a surface wich absorbs
(and
> emits) at 5um, the peak wavelength for black body radiation at about
300
> degrees Celsius. It is reflective at longer wavelengths. This
> arrangement means that there is actually very little radiative
transfer
> of heat between the two plates. Plate A radiates heat at a rate of
> 20 Watts per square metre, but most of that radiation is reflected
by
> plate B. Nevertheless, some heat must be transferred and thermal
> equilibrium is reached with the plates at the same temperature.
>
> Now comes the clever bit. A material is placed between the two
plates
> that has the same property as that used for laser frequency
doublers. It
> distorts the electromagnetic radiation so that some of the light is
> up-converted to twice the frequency: half the wavelength. This
> particular material is active at a wavelength of 10um, some of which
it
> converts to 5um.
>
> Some of the heat radiated from plate A is converted by the material
to a
> wavelength of 5um. This heat falls upon plate B and is completely
> absorbed. however this material does not do the same in reverse. it
does
> not convert the 5um radiation emitted from plate B into 10um on the
> return journey. (It is impossible for distortion to create harmonics
at
> a lower frequency.) In short, it is the kind of microscopic process
> referred to in my earlier email that is not time symmetrical.
> Consequently very little heat returns from plate B onto plate A.
>
> Thermal equilibrium is still reached. however it can now only be
reached
> when the two plates are at different temperatures. Some heat will
leak
> back from plate B to plate A, however not as much as reaches plate B
> from plate A.
>
> Possible flaws:
>
> Such materials only work with coherent light.
> Such materials only work at the high light intensities found at the
> output of lasers.
> Such materials do not work at the same colour temperatuere as the
light
> they convert.
>
> I would welcome any comments. I am particularly interested in anyone
who
> work with lasers or optics and might know something about these
light
> frequency doubling materials and whether or not any of the possible
> flaws I outlined above are in fact the case. I am finding it
difficult
> to track this information down.
>
> Bob Lerwill
• Hi Hubert Thanks for the encouraging comments. Yes I intend trying it. The only problem at the moment is identifying the light frequency doubling material
Message 3 of 5 , Oct 11, 2001
Hi Hubert

Thanks for the encouraging comments. Yes I intend trying it. The only
problem at the moment is identifying the light frequency doubling
material active in the appropriate wavelength area, which is why i am
asking for help. I know what materials are used in the higher
wavelengths, but these materials are wavelength specific.

As for power, I think the figure I calulate of 20W per square meter,
while modest is still useful.

88--- In AMBIENTENERGY@y..., hustierhof@y... wrote:
> Hello Bob,
>
> despite the fact, that I am no specialist in the realm of laser
> technology, your idea (A material is placed between the two plates
> that has the same property as that used for laser
> frequency doublers.) sounds interesting at least for a
> experiment....so, you should TRY IT, so we all may learn by that.
> But I think, that radiation in the two plates you described, will be
> very very low in its ambient condition.
>
> Hubert
>
> --- In AMBIENTENERGY@y..., Robert Lerwill <bob.mo@v...> wrote:
> > Before I start, can I say as a new member of this group that I am
> not
> > highly educated, I have just done a lot of thinking and read a lot
> of
> > books. What follows is a supplemented copy of a posting to the
> > free-energy group run by Eric Krieg. There is another posting on
> that
> > site relating to the theory behind what follows if you wish to
look
> it
> > up.
> >
> > There are several machines available that can convert heat at
> ambient
> > temperature into mechanical work. However all of the exisiting
ones
> rely
> > on the small changes that occur in temperature: between day and
> night,
> > mountains and plains, sea and land, latitude or season. In other
> words,
> > weather. If it wasn't for weather, you would never get water
> existing in
> > an atmosphere at less than 100% humidity. The dipping bird does
not
> work
> > unless you have water in an atmosphere of less than 100% humidity.
> > Another example of this is the "Atmos" clock which uses small
> > temperature variations to wind up a spring. They are manufactured
by
> the
> > Swiss firm Jaeger. (My brother has one of these clock which has
been
> > working continuously now for 30 years!).
> >
> > While there is no doubt that these machines work and do convert
heat
> at
> > ambient heat into mechanical work, It is very difficult to get one
> of
> > these machines to generate significant amounts of power. The
reason
> is
> > that the temperature differences available are small. The second
law
> of
> > thermodynamics says that the efficiency of any heat engine is
> limited to
> > (Tmax-Tmin)/Tmax (all temperatures in degrees Kelvin). This
> efficiency
> > limit is called the Carnot efficiency. The expression of the 2nd
law
> > that forbids a higher efficiency is called the Kelvin expression
of
> the
> > 2nd law of thermodynamics. If we could find a way around the 2nd
> law, we
> > could do better, but surely it would be a good idea to know more
> > the 2nd law before attempting to find a way around it.
> >
> > Now let us suppose we have a machine that causes a mass of
material
> at
> > ambient temperature and splits it into half at high temperature
and
> half
> > at low temperature. No energy would be created. The 1st law of
> > thermodynamics (which says that energy cannot be either created or
> > destroyed) would not be violated and we would then have the basis
of
> a
> > way of creating large amounts of energy from heat at ambient
> > temperature. Unfortunately there is another expression of the 2nd
> law of
> > thermodynamics called the Clausius expression which says such a
> machine
> > is impossible. This says that "No process is possible in which the
> sole
> > result is the transfer of of energy from a cooler body to a hotter
> one".
> >
> > The common notion of a perpetual motion machine is a machine that
> > creates something out of nothing. In scientific terms, this is
> called a
> > perpetual mobile of the first kind; because it would break the 1st
> law
> > of thermodynamics. What this group was set up to develop is not
this
> > kind of folly. What Boyd proposes is not that kind of perpetual
> motion
> > machine. It is unfortunate that the scientific name for what we
are
> > about is "a perpetuum mobile of the 2nd kind": because it would
> violate
> > the 2nd law of thermodynamics. It is unfortuante because if there
> really
> > reasons why such a machine cannot work, they have nothing to do
with
> the
> > reaosns why the first kind of machine will not work. Nevertheless
> the
> > scientific name tars us with the same brush by using a similar
name.
> >
> > The machine described below is intended to generate a spontaneous
> > temperature difference between two objects. No energy input is
> required
> > other than heat at ambient temperature. It violates the second
law.
> That
> > is the tricky bit and so only that part is described. To turn this
> heat
> > difference into usable energy would require one of many available
> heat
> > engines. The exact type is not important but to try and keep the
> > "machine" free of moving parts, I would suggest a semiconductor
> > thermocouple such as a Peltier device working in reverse. The
whole
> > device would reduce the temperature of its surroundings once the
> heat
> > engine was added and supplying power. Some of the heat into work
and
> so
> > the 1st law would not be violated.
> >
> > The device consists of two plates, separated by a vacuum and in
> thermal
> > equilibrium. Thermal equilibrium is achieved when the power of
heat
> > radiated is equal to the power of heat absorbed. Since the process
> of
> > photon absorption is the exact reverse of the process of photon
> > emission, the ability of a surface to radiate heat is exactly
> matched by
> > its ability to absorb heat at the same wavelength. Thus thermal
> > equilibrium is achieved when the two plates are at the same
> temperature:
> > irrespective of the surface properties of the plates.
> >
> > One of the plates, plate A, is covered with a material that emits
> (and
> > absorbs) far infra-red radiation at about 10um: the peak
wavelength
> of
> > black-body radiation at 20 degrees Celsius. It is reflective at
> shorter
> > wavelengths. The other plate, plate B, has a surface wich absorbs
> (and
> > emits) at 5um, the peak wavelength for black body radiation at
> 300
> > degrees Celsius. It is reflective at longer wavelengths. This
> > arrangement means that there is actually very little radiative
> transfer
> > of heat between the two plates. Plate A radiates heat at a rate of
> > 20 Watts per square metre, but most of that radiation is reflected
> by
> > plate B. Nevertheless, some heat must be transferred and thermal
> > equilibrium is reached with the plates at the same temperature.
> >
> > Now comes the clever bit. A material is placed between the two
> plates
> > that has the same property as that used for laser frequency
> doublers. It
> > distorts the electromagnetic radiation so that some of the light
is
> > up-converted to twice the frequency: half the wavelength. This
> > particular material is active at a wavelength of 10um, some of
which
> it
> > converts to 5um.
> >
> > Some of the heat radiated from plate A is converted by the
material
> to a
> > wavelength of 5um. This heat falls upon plate B and is completely
> > absorbed. however this material does not do the same in reverse.
it
> does
> > not convert the 5um radiation emitted from plate B into 10um on
the
> > return journey. (It is impossible for distortion to create
harmonics
> at
> > a lower frequency.) In short, it is the kind of microscopic
process
> > referred to in my earlier email that is not time symmetrical.
> > Consequently very little heat returns from plate B onto plate A.
> >
> > Thermal equilibrium is still reached. however it can now only be
> reached
> > when the two plates are at different temperatures. Some heat will
> leak
> > back from plate B to plate A, however not as much as reaches plate
B
> > from plate A.
> >
> > Possible flaws:
> >
> > Such materials only work with coherent light.
> > Such materials only work at the high light intensities found at
the
> > output of lasers.
> > Such materials do not work at the same colour temperatuere as the
> light
> > they convert.
> >
> > I would welcome any comments. I am particularly interested in
anyone
> who
> > work with lasers or optics and might know something about these
> light
> > frequency doubling materials and whether or not any of the
possible
> > flaws I outlined above are in fact the case. I am finding it
> difficult
> > to track this information down.
> >
> > Bob Lerwill
• ... only ... am ... As an answer on a germam news group de.sci.physik i have got the following: Ja, gibt es. Vorraussetzung dafür ist ledigliche
Message 4 of 5 , Oct 19, 2001
--- In AMBIENTENERGY@y..., "Bob Lerwill" <bob.mo@v...> wrote:
> Hi Hubert
>
> Thanks for the encouraging comments. Yes I intend trying it. The
only
> problem at the moment is identifying the light frequency doubling
> material active in the appropriate wavelength area, which is why i
am
> asking for help. I know what materials are used in the higher
> wavelengths, but these materials are wavelength specific.

As an answer on a germam news group "de.sci.physik" i have got the
following:

<german>
Ja, gibt es. Vorraussetzung dafür ist ledigliche eine
nicht-zentrosymmetrische Struktur von Dipolen im Medium. Stichwort
für die
Suche im Internet oder der nächsten Bücherei 'Second Harmonic
Generation',
SHG. Oder ganz allgemein Nichtlineare Optik, da die SHG eh der
einfachste
Effekt der NLO ist.
Für die von dir angegebenen Wellenlängen dürften Tellur oder CdGeAs_2
geeignet sein.
</german>

The main thing is:
you need tellur or CdGeAs_2 which should not be to thick because of
interference problems.

You might also check with a good search machine for:
'Second Harmonic Generation, nolinear optic , nlo, tellur, CdGeAs_2'

Hope this help.

Hajo
• Thanks for the information. I shall check this out. I am also looking at Lithium Iodate as a possibility. ... i ... CdGeAs_2
Message 5 of 5 , Oct 25, 2001
Thanks for the information. I shall check this out. I am also looking
at Lithium Iodate as a possibility.

--- In AMBIENTENERGY@y..., hans-joachim.ehlers@a... wrote:
> --- In AMBIENTENERGY@y..., "Bob Lerwill" <bob.mo@v...> wrote:
> > Hi Hubert
> >
> > Thanks for the encouraging comments. Yes I intend trying it. The
> only
> > problem at the moment is identifying the light frequency doubling
> > material active in the appropriate wavelength area, which is why
i
> am
> > asking for help. I know what materials are used in the higher
> > wavelengths, but these materials are wavelength specific.
>
> As an answer on a germam news group "de.sci.physik" i have got the
> following:
>
> <german>
> Ja, gibt es. Vorraussetzung dafür ist ledigliche eine
> nicht-zentrosymmetrische Struktur von Dipolen im Medium. Stichwort
> für die
> Suche im Internet oder der nächsten Bücherei 'Second Harmonic
> Generation',
> SHG. Oder ganz allgemein Nichtlineare Optik, da die SHG eh der
> einfachste
> Effekt der NLO ist.
> Für die von dir angegebenen Wellenlängen dürften Tellur oder
CdGeAs_2
> geeignet sein.
> </german>
>
> The main thing is:
> you need tellur or CdGeAs_2 which should not be to thick because of
> interference problems.
>
> You might also check with a good search machine for:
> 'Second Harmonic Generation, nolinear optic , nlo, tellur, CdGeAs_2'
>
> Hope this help.
>
> Hajo
Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.