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First large ships

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  • Mario Petrinovic
    “However, archaeologists believe that the Stone Age colonization of islands in the Mediterranean around 8,000 BC required fairly large, seaworthy vessels
    Message 1 of 4 , May 15, 2017
              “However, archaeologists believe that the Stone Age colonization of islands in the Mediterranean around 8,000 BC required fairly large, seaworthy vessels that were paddled and possibly even equipped with sails.” [Wachsmann (1995), pp. 28-34]
    • George Watkins
      Wachsmann had it 2/3 right. Their boats were large, they were paddled, but didn t have sails. The technology was simply not there. We know that from the
      Message 2 of 4 , May 15, 2017
        Wachsmann had it 2/3 right. Their boats were large, they were paddled, but didn't have sails. The technology was simply not there. We know that from the available evidence we have about Egyptian boats of the 4500 BC discovered post 2005 on petroglyphs.Sails on boats was a Bronze Age technology.

        cheers!
        george

        On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 5:34 PM, 'Mario Petrinovic' mario.petrinovic1@... [AAT] <AAT@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
         

                “However, archaeologists believe that the Stone Age colonization of islands in the Mediterranean around 8,000 BC required fairly large, seaworthy vessels that were paddled and possibly even equipped with sails.” [Wachsmann (1995), pp. 28-34]


      • terry.turner1602@sbcglobal.net
        Such theorizing presumes the world seas were as they are today, but we know that sea levels have varied widely just prior to this time period. I had assumed
        Message 3 of 4 , May 15, 2017
          Such theorizing presumes the world seas were as they are today, but we know that sea levels have varied widely just prior to this time period.
          I had assumed that the Mediterranean islands were first settled when water levels were much lower.
          Then boat technology improved as water levels rose. Low level trade was ongoing.
          I would think conquest of the islands would be a better phrase choice than colonization of the islands once ship design improved enough to carry armies.

          This entry has more-or-less the same information. 
          http://www.mediterranean-yachting.com/Hist-2.htm
          ...
          Each recurring ice-age produced huge drops in the level of the seas, as much water was deposited miles high, in the form of ice in the world’s polar regions. This allowed primitive man to wander ever further and to populate many lands, even those which were later to become islands, with the return of higher sea levels during the warmer ages. For example, Sardinia was populated in this way, some 40,000 years ago, by wandering tribes coming from Tuscany, through Elba into Corsica and across into Sardinia.
          et cetera...

          Terry

        • Mario Petrinovic
          Natives in America used sails, made out of reeds. I didn’t find info about some other material used for sails. They did use bronze, there. I find highly
          Message 4 of 4 , May 16, 2017
                    Natives in America used sails, made out of reeds. I didn’t find info about some other material used for sails. They did use bronze, there.
                    I find highly unprobable that the same kind of technology developed in two (out of three, Old World, Americas, Australia) different parts of the world, in roughly the same time, out of nothing. So, in my view, all the technology that America has was already present in the Old World, before people came to America. Furthermore, people in both, Australia and America were at the very fringe of Old World civilizations. This we know because they have lost ties to it. If they weren’t some kind of flees, they would remain ties and trade. So, one would presume that the center of Old World civilization at the time when those places were populated would have much more advanced technology. Also, the process of fleeing is of such a nature that you lose technology during it. So, if people in Americas had such an advanced technology, then they already had it well established before they fled to America. Further, if they had it so established at the fringe of Old World civilization, then the center of The Old World civilization had it even more avdanced.
                    You may agree with me or not, you may sat simply that there isn’t evidence for it, but this should be the starting position when contemplanting those things, simply because this is by far the most probable position. Everything else (which relies solely on known evidence) is by far less probable, it isn’t logical that suddenly, out of nothing, two different parts of the world (plus, America was actually fairly new, still unexplored, so you would first explore it thoroughly, and only then, slowly, develop any kind of large organizations, which takes a lot of time) develop the same things.

             

            Wachsmann had it 2/3 right. Their boats were large, they were paddled, but didn't have sails. The technology was simply not there. We know that from the available evidence we have about Egyptian boats of the 4500 BC discovered post 2005 on petroglyphs.Sails on boats was a Bronze Age technology.
             
            cheers!
            george
             
            On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 5:34 PM, 'Mario Petrinovic' mario.petrinovic1@... [AAT] <AAT@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
             
                    “However, archaeologists believe that the Stone Age colonization of islands in the Mediterranean around 8,000 BC required fairly large, seaworthy vessels that were paddled and possibly even equipped with sails.” [Wachsmann (1995), pp. 28-34]
             
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