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Re: OH-8 foot adult

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  • dons3148
    ... Instead, we have a fully adult hominid (probably Homo habilis) who was eaten by a crocodile! When I teach, I think it s fun to talk about all of the
    Message 1 of 4 , May 1, 2010
      --- In AAT@yahoogroups.com, Marc Verhaegen <m_verhaegen@...> wrote:
      >
      > doi 10.1016/j.jhevol.2010.03.004
      > The Olduvai Hominid 8 foot: Adult or subadult?
      > JM DeSilva, B Zipfel, AP van Arsdale & MW Tocheri 2010 JHE
      >
      > OH-8, an articulating set of fossil hominin tarsal & metatarsal bones, is
      > critical to interpretations of the evolution of hominin pedal morphology &
      > bipedal locomotion.
      > It has been suggested that OH-8 may represent the foot of a subadult, and
      > may be associated with the OH-7 mandible (type specimen of H.habilis).
      > This assertion is based on the presence of what may be unfused distal
      > metatarsal epiphyses.
      > ... we compare MT fusion patterns & internal bone morphology of the lateral
      > MTs among subadult hominines (85 Hs, 48 Pan, 25 Gorilla) :
      > - If OH-8 is indeed from a subadult, then it displays a MT developmental
      > pattern that is unobserved in our comparative sample.
      > - In OH-8, the fully fused base of the MT-1 & the presence of trabecular
      > bone at the distal ends of the MT-2 & MT-3 shafts make it highly improbable
      > that it belonged to a subadult, let alone a subadult that matches the
      > developmental age of the OH-7 mandible.
      > - The OH-8 foot most likely belonged to an adult hominin.
      >





      "Instead, we have a fully adult hominid (probably Homo habilis)
      who was eaten by a crocodile! When I teach, I think it's fun
      to talk about all of the evidence for predation on hominids
      that exists in the fossil record. I think a lot of students
      may be stuck in a "Man the Hunter" paradigm, so I like to
      stress that it was only very recently that we could even make
      tools that were capable of smashing a crab against a rock, let
      alone take down a gazelle. Instead, we've lived most of our
      existence as tasty snacks and crocodile lunch." [QUOTE]

      A Primate of Modern Aspect [23.04.10]

      _____________________________





      Habilis - a tasty lunch snack
      for crocodiles.


      -- Bill
    • Marc Verhaegen
      ... I have no idea who wrote this - what s/he says about gazelles is correct, but not about crabs. ... Yes, the same is true for baboons & afarensis (Lucy was
      Message 2 of 4 , May 1, 2010
        >> doi 10.1016/j.jhevol.2010.03.004
        >> The Olduvai Hominid 8 foot: Adult or subadult?
        >> JM DeSilva, B Zipfel, AP van Arsdale & MW Tocheri 2010 JHE
        >> OH-8, an articulating set of fossil hominin tarsal & metatarsal bones, is
        >> critical to interpretations of the evolution of hominin pedal morphology &
        >> bipedal locomotion.
        >> It has been suggested that OH-8 may represent the foot of a subadult, and
        >> may be associated with the OH-7 mandible (type specimen of H.habilis).
        >> This assertion is based on the presence of what may be unfused distal
        >> metatarsal epiphyses.
        >> ... we compare MT fusion patterns & internal bone morphology of the lateral
        >> MTs among subadult hominines (85 Hs, 48 Pan, 25 Gorilla) :
        >> - If OH-8 is indeed from a subadult, then it displays a MT developmental
        >> pattern that is unobserved in our comparative sample.
        >> - In OH-8, the fully fused base of the MT-1 & the presence of trabecular
        >> bone at the distal ends of the MT-2 & MT-3 shafts make it highly improbable
        >> that it belonged to a subadult, let alone a subadult that matches the
        >> developmental age of the OH-7 mandible.
        >> - The OH-8 foot most likely belonged to an adult hominin.

        > "Instead, we have a fully adult hominid (probably Homo habilis)
        > who was eaten by a crocodile! When I teach, I think it's fun
        > to talk about all of the evidence for predation on hominids
        > that exists in the fossil record. I think a lot of students
        > may be stuck in a "Man the Hunter" paradigm, so I like to
        > stress that it was only very recently that we could even make
        > tools that were capable of smashing a crab against a rock, let
        > alone take down a gazelle. Instead, we've lived most of our
        > existence as tasty snacks and crocodile lunch." [QUOTE]
        > A Primate of Modern Aspect [23.04.10]

        I have no idea who wrote this - what s/he says about gazelles is correct,
        but not about crabs.

        > Habilis - a tasty lunch snack for crocodiles. -- Bill

        Yes, the same is true for baboons & afarensis (Lucy was found amid crocodile
        eggs).

        Probably not all so-called "habilis" fossils belong to the same species, so
        "habilis" is a rather useless term: we can better speak of this or that
        fossil specifically.
        When H & P split, they were identical, and in the first million years after
        the split they still resembled each other strongly, so that it's difficult
        to say whether a fossil of that period belonged to P or to H (unless we can
        isolate DNA from these fossils).

        --marc
      • dons3148
        ... Zinjanthropus is probably a he (the blogger) The quote was from his blog: How old was the Olduvai Hominid? A Primate of Modern Aspect (blog)
        Message 3 of 4 , May 2, 2010
          --- In AAT@yahoogroups.com, Marc Verhaegen <m_verhaegen@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > >> doi 10.1016/j.jhevol.2010.03.004
          > >> The Olduvai Hominid 8 foot: Adult or subadult?
          > >> JM DeSilva, B Zipfel, AP van Arsdale & MW Tocheri 2010 JHE
          > >> OH-8, an articulating set of fossil hominin tarsal & metatarsal bones, is
          > >> critical to interpretations of the evolution of hominin pedal morphology &
          > >> bipedal locomotion.
          > >> It has been suggested that OH-8 may represent the foot of a subadult, and
          > >> may be associated with the OH-7 mandible (type specimen of H.habilis).
          > >> This assertion is based on the presence of what may be unfused distal
          > >> metatarsal epiphyses.
          > >> ... we compare MT fusion patterns & internal bone morphology of the lateral
          > >> MTs among subadult hominines (85 Hs, 48 Pan, 25 Gorilla) :
          > >> - If OH-8 is indeed from a subadult, then it displays a MT developmental
          > >> pattern that is unobserved in our comparative sample.
          > >> - In OH-8, the fully fused base of the MT-1 & the presence of trabecular
          > >> bone at the distal ends of the MT-2 & MT-3 shafts make it highly improbable
          > >> that it belonged to a subadult, let alone a subadult that matches the
          > >> developmental age of the OH-7 mandible.
          > >> - The OH-8 foot most likely belonged to an adult hominin.
          >
          > > "Instead, we have a fully adult hominid (probably Homo habilis)
          > > who was eaten by a crocodile! When I teach, I think it's fun
          > > to talk about all of the evidence for predation on hominids
          > > that exists in the fossil record. I think a lot of students
          > > may be stuck in a "Man the Hunter" paradigm, so I like to
          > > stress that it was only very recently that we could even make
          > > tools that were capable of smashing a crab against a rock, let
          > > alone take down a gazelle. Instead, we've lived most of our
          > > existence as tasty snacks and crocodile lunch." [QUOTE]
          > > A Primate of Modern Aspect [23.04.10]
          >




          > I have no idea who wrote this - what s/he says about
          > gazelles is correct, but not about crabs.
          >


          Zinjanthropus is probably a 'he' (the blogger)

          The quote was from his blog:
          How old was the Olduvai Hominid?

          A Primate of Modern Aspect (blog)
          http://zinjanthropus.wordpress.com/2010/04/23/how-old-was-the-olduvai-hominid/



          Would agree what he says about gazelles is correct, humans
          could not have lasted a day on the savanna far less have
          evolved on the savanna long enough to become tool users.



          > > Habilis - a tasty lunch snack for crocodiles. -- Bill
          >
          > Yes, the same is true for baboons & afarensis (Lucy was
          > found amid crocodile eggs).
          >


          The crocodile perhaps snacked on 'Lucy' after laying
          her eggs, or 'Lucy' was caught attempting to dig up
          the eggs.




          > Probably not all so-called "habilis" fossils belong
          > to the same species, so "habilis" is a rather useless
          > term: we can better speak of this or that
          > fossil specifically.
          >


          The habilis started out as something used by some PAs
          to fill in the 'gap' in the fossil record between the
          a'piths and H.erectus.

          The fossils that were/are attributed to the habilis could
          be from several a'piths, or more likely the habilis was
          just a a'pith that lived at the same time as H.erectus.
          (it co-existed with H.erectus, in the same
          part of Africa)




          > When H & P split, they were identical, and in the first
          > million years after the split they still resembled each
          > other strongly, so that it's difficult to say whether a
          > fossil of that period belonged to P or to H (unless we
          > can isolate DNA from these fossils).
          >
          > --marc
          >


          Perhaps, they were similar rather than identical for a
          time after they diverged. (there could have been minor
          differences in just tens of thousands of years - that
          would not be seen in their fossil remains today)


          -- Bill
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