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Re: Bamboo war: Giganto vs Panda

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  • DDeden
    ... http://www.thecheers.org/news/Science/news_5498_Giant-pandas-won-bamboo-food ... exactly the ... the same ... slowly ... not sharp. OK, thanks for
    Message 1 of 13 , Jan 2, 2008
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      --- In AAT@yahoogroups.com, Marc Verhaegen <marc.verhaegen@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > > --- In AAT@yahoogroups.com, "DDeden" <alas_my_loves@> wrote:
      >
      > >>>> H erectus not found in subtropical bamboo forest war zone
      >
      >
      http://www.thecheers.org/news/Science/news_5498_Giant-pandas-won-bamboo-food
      > -wars-over-Giganto-apes-half-a-million-years-ago.html
      >
      > >>> It's difficult to imagine that both Ailuropoda & Gigantop had
      exactly the
      > >>> same diet then. I guess it's rather like chimps & gorillas in
      the same
      > >>> forest: partial overlap. Gigantop was larger I'd think: Gigantop in
      > >>> wetter places (swamps??), pandas in drier places? --Marc
      >
      > >> Yeah, seems likely. Lot of sea level changes in that area, Hainan
      > >> changing from coastal peninsula to island and back. Neither seem to
      > >> fit the normal grass eating mammal type (changing from inland small
      > >> grasses to large bamboo grass), so I think they instead both switched
      > >> from arboreal omnivore to bamboo, probably starting with young bamboo
      > >> sprouts and roots like pigs rooting through soft/damp soil, and
      slowly
      > >> being selected for stronger jaws and sharper harder teeth.
      >
      > Apiths & Gigantop have superthick round bunodont enamel: hard but
      not sharp.

      OK, thanks for correction. "Pig-like" I meant much earlier, but I
      agree it doesn't really fit either.

      > Suids have different enamel microwear (more like H.erectus: grit??) than
      > apiths & Gigantop AFAIK.
      > Sea otters have thick enamel, but walruses atrophied enamel.
      > Apiths & most early hominids-pongids since c.17 Ma (except Dryop, Oreop,
      > Ardip) had (super)thick enamel, but enamel hypoplasy is regularly
      seen in
      > fossil Homo (esp.erectus).
      >
      > Ailuropoda today (smaller than the fossil sp) can climb trees, but I
      doubt
      > whether Gigantop (estimated females 190 kg, males 300 kg) could.
      >
      > --Marc
      >
    • Ken Moore
      ... Pepsin breaks the peptide bonds to make proteins into their constituent amino acids, and works better at higher acidity. As DD s post indicates, eating
      Message 2 of 13 , Jan 4, 2008
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        Marc Verhaegen wrote:
        >
        > [...]
        > Taking omeprazol seems to be harmless (at first we were afraid of
        > gastric cancers), so a low stomach pH seems to be unnecessary with the
        > diet we have today. But no doubt a low stomach pH was necessary once.
        > For what reason?
        > Perhaps we need comparisons with other primates esp.chimps & waterside
        > mammals, eg, sea otters.
        >
        Pepsin breaks the peptide bonds to make proteins into their constituent
        amino acids, and works better at higher acidity. As DD's post
        indicates, eating raw meat is a likely reason to evolve high stomach
        acidity, but cooking meat starts the process, so reduces the need.

        --
        Ken Moore
      • Marc Verhaegen
        Op 04-01-2008 11:27, Ken Moore schreef: ... Yes, it s a possibility. --Marc
        Message 3 of 13 , Jan 4, 2008
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          Op 04-01-2008 11:27, Ken Moore <ken@...> schreef:

          ...
          >> Taking omeprazol seems to be harmless (at first we were afraid of
          >> gastric cancers), so a low stomach pH seems to be unnecessary with the
          >> diet we have today. But no doubt a low stomach pH was necessary once.
          >> For what reason?
          >> Perhaps we need comparisons with other primates esp.chimps & waterside
          >> mammals, eg, sea otters.

          > Pepsin breaks the peptide bonds to make proteins into their constituent
          > amino acids, and works better at higher acidity. As DD's post
          > indicates, eating raw meat is a likely reason to evolve high stomach
          > acidity, but cooking meat starts the process, so reduces the need.

          Yes, it's a possibility.

          --Marc
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