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Re: [AAT] Re: Taking the plunge, Kate Douglas in NS, 2000

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  • Marc Verhaegen
    ... from the Centre for Anthropological Studies in Putte, Belgium. ... In fact, it s Studiecentrum Antropologie . My Instutution is not very large (about 1
    Message 1 of 6 , Aug 27, 2005
      > From article "It's a conservative estimate, according to Marc Verhaegen
      from the Centre for Anthropological Studies in Putte, Belgium. ...

      In fact, it's "Studiecentrum Antropologie". My Instutution is not very large
      (about 1 room) :-D but if you want to get something published, I thought
      you better have some Institution. I got this idea after a correspondent on
      mine (Jos Verhulst) created his "Louis Bolk Centre" (about 2 rooms) for the
      same reason.

      > He points to fossil evidence from Arabia which indicates that an ancestor
      of all the great apes was living in watery forest margins 17 million years

      Heliopith = "Saudi ape" (ad-Dabtiyah in Arabia) has been found near to the
      southern "tropical shores of the Tethys epi-continental sea", at about the
      same time as his (close?) relative Griphopith on the northern coasts of the
      Tethys. See Box 1 in our TREE paper in the AAT files (but this already
      needs some corrections).

      > Marc, 17ma the gibbons and other apes split, right? what is the extinct
      ape you mention here? DD

      We don't know exactly when great & lesser apes split, or where exactly
      Heliopith should be placed in the hominoid tree (sidebranch of the common
      great-lesser ape line? early hylobatid? early hominid-pongid?). As usual, at
      first it was believed to an early great ape, but now it's thought it might
      have been further away. At first they thought this ape hung on branches, but
      now they think it was an above-brancher.

      > Verhaegen believes that this animal would have waded on two legs in the
      water and moved effortlessly through the trees, in much the same way as the
      mangrove-dwelling proboscis monkeys of Borneo do today. Most primates find
      it easy to adopt an upright gait when necessary, he says, because arboreal
      adaptations have left them with a highly mobile spine and flexible limb

      Journalists... It's apparently difficult to correctly reproduce what we
      wrote. We did not compare Nasalis with Heliopith, but with apes: these
      monkeys are the largest colobines, have rel.longer arms than other
      colobines, it's the only colobine with a shortened tail (N.concolor), it's
      the only monogamous colobine (N.concolor), the only non-human primate with a
      large ext.nose (N.larvatus), they live in mangrove forests, sometimes wade
      on 2 legs & even run on dry ground on 2 legs (bent-hips-bent-knees), of all
      colobines they regularly climb arms overhead, etc. - all signs of
      "incipient" vertical wading-climbing IMO.

      > > > >> Taking the plunge, Kate Douglas in NS, 2000
      http://www.newscientist.com/nlf/1125/taking.html The link doesn't seem to
      work any more. Does anybody know where we can find the paper? can we find
      it on the Net? --Marc

      > > > This article? http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg16822664.300

      > > > Yes, thanks, m3d, one has to subscribe here, but I'll place it in the
      Links section.

      > > Try this one...

      :-) Excellent! Where did you find this link , m3d?

      > > "There are still researchers who greet the new developments with about
      as much enthusiasm as Hardy received back in 1960. But even they don't doubt
      the savannah hypothesis is dead. Whether it will be replaced by an
      amphibious theory remains to be seen. The tide is turning, though. "The
      ridicule placed at the door of the aquatic-ape theory is easy to generate,
      just as the President of the Royal Society ridiculed Mr Faraday's useless
      experimental demonstrations of electricity," says Crawford. "Ridicule is a
      popular and political tool but not a scientific tool. If you want to
      challenge a thesis, you do it with facts and science." The aquatic-ape
      debate is at last being fought on those grounds."

      Well-said, Michael!

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