Re: [AAT] Re: Taking the plunge, Kate Douglas in NS, 2000
> From article "It's a conservative estimate, according to Marc Verhaegenfrom the Centre for Anthropological Studies in Putte, Belgium. ...
In fact, it's "Studiecentrum Antropologie". My Instutution is not very large
(about 1 room) :-D but if you want to get something published, I thought
you better have some Institution. I got this idea after a correspondent on
mine (Jos Verhulst) created his "Louis Bolk Centre" (about 2 rooms) for the
> He points to fossil evidence from Arabia which indicates that an ancestorof all the great apes was living in watery forest margins 17 million years
Heliopith = "Saudi ape" (ad-Dabtiyah in Arabia) has been found near to the
southern "tropical shores of the Tethys epi-continental sea", at about the
same time as his (close?) relative Griphopith on the northern coasts of the
Tethys. See Box 1 in our TREE paper in the AAT files (but this already
needs some corrections).
> Marc, 17ma the gibbons and other apes split, right? what is the extinctape you mention here? DD
We don't know exactly when great & lesser apes split, or where exactly
Heliopith should be placed in the hominoid tree (sidebranch of the common
great-lesser ape line? early hylobatid? early hominid-pongid?). As usual, at
first it was believed to an early great ape, but now it's thought it might
have been further away. At first they thought this ape hung on branches, but
now they think it was an above-brancher.
> Verhaegen believes that this animal would have waded on two legs in thewater and moved effortlessly through the trees, in much the same way as the
mangrove-dwelling proboscis monkeys of Borneo do today. Most primates find
it easy to adopt an upright gait when necessary, he says, because arboreal
adaptations have left them with a highly mobile spine and flexible limb
Journalists... It's apparently difficult to correctly reproduce what we
wrote. We did not compare Nasalis with Heliopith, but with apes: these
monkeys are the largest colobines, have rel.longer arms than other
colobines, it's the only colobine with a shortened tail (N.concolor), it's
the only monogamous colobine (N.concolor), the only non-human primate with a
large ext.nose (N.larvatus), they live in mangrove forests, sometimes wade
on 2 legs & even run on dry ground on 2 legs (bent-hips-bent-knees), of all
colobines they regularly climb arms overhead, etc. - all signs of
"incipient" vertical wading-climbing IMO.
> > > >> Taking the plunge, Kate Douglas in NS, 2000http://www.newscientist.com/nlf/1125/taking.html The link doesn't seem to
work any more. Does anybody know where we can find the paper? can we find
it on the Net? --Marc
> > > This article? http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg16822664.300Links section.
> > > Yes, thanks, m3d, one has to subscribe here, but I'll place it in the
> > Try this one...http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~nantonio/aquatic_ape_theory.htm
:-) Excellent! Where did you find this link , m3d?
> > "There are still researchers who greet the new developments with aboutas much enthusiasm as Hardy received back in 1960. But even they don't doubt
the savannah hypothesis is dead. Whether it will be replaced by an
amphibious theory remains to be seen. The tide is turning, though. "The
ridicule placed at the door of the aquatic-ape theory is easy to generate,
just as the President of the Royal Society ridiculed Mr Faraday's useless
experimental demonstrations of electricity," says Crawford. "Ridicule is a
popular and political tool but not a scientific tool. If you want to
challenge a thesis, you do it with facts and science." The aquatic-ape
debate is at last being fought on those grounds."