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Re: [AAT] Re: KW pictures

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  • Marc Verhaegen
    ... fingers. Pan because they are jumping from tree to tree ... presume, Afr.apes have even more permanent flexed position of fingers. Which definitely
    Message 1 of 7 , Jan 1, 2005
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      > > > The way of locomotion of Afr.apes puts a lot more strain on their
      fingers. Pan because they are jumping from tree to tree

      > > They seldom do.

      > > > , and gorilla because of their weight. Because of that, I would
      presume, Afr.apes have even more permanent flexed position of fingers. Which
      definitely prevents palm-walking, and forces KW. KW is the only option for
      them. I presume that Pongo can fist-walk because it has more flexible hand
      (is able to adduct hand, more). For the same reason as above, I presume that
      Pan hand should be more stiff, regarding this. Mario

      > > If so, why do orangs have more flexible hands than chimps? --Marc

      > It could be actually that chimps have MORE STIFF, than orangs. I
      would presume that you need to stiff your hand if you want to do a sort of
      locomotion chimps are able to do. So, it would be that first it was the mode
      of locomotion orangs have, and because chimps needed to perform a kind of
      locomotion which puts more strain on hands, they needed to stiff their hand,
      hence they were doomed to KW on the ground. -- Mario

      Saying that orangs have more flexible hands is the same of saying that
      chimps have stiffer hands, but it still doesn't explain why this would be.

      --Marc
    • Mario Petrinovich
      ... Ok. Maybe you are right. I would say that flexibility/stiffness in their hands is in accordance with their modes of locomotion. IOW, orangs aren t able to
      Message 2 of 7 , Jan 1, 2005
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        --- In AAT@yahoogroups.com, "Marc Verhaegen" <marc.verhaegen@v...>
        wrote:
        > Saying that orangs have more flexible hands is the same of saying
        > that
        > chimps have stiffer hands, but it still doesn't explain why this
        > would be. --Marc

        Ok. Maybe you are right. I would say that
        flexibility/stiffness in their hands is in accordance with their
        modes of locomotion. IOW, orangs aren't able to perform some things
        chimps can do. Orangs are less able to cross from tree to tree.
        Chimps are more able because they can jump onto branch of another
        tree. Branches of different trees never touch (presumably to
        prevent spreading of deseases). So, if moving from tree to tree is
        necessity (in a rush), you must develop something like this. I
        presume that it is understandable that if bigger force is imposed
        on some limb, that limb must be more stiff. While if lesser forces
        are imposed, a limb can be more flexible.
        Whether chimp is doing this more often or not (today)
        doesn't really matter. It does matter that chimps are able to do
        this, and orangs aren't. This probably has something to do with
        different kinds of forests in the past. Next time I am ordering
        books, one good book about rain forests will definitely be on the
        list. I did read somewhere, though, (I think in "Lowly Origins")
        that there wasn't much of rain forest some 5mya in Africa. But,
        this needs rechecking (sometimes the fact that I don't keep notes,
        get me on my nerves). Sorry for that, but I don't think I will find
        this info, again. Anyway, I definitelly think that somebody messed
        up with African forest, big time, in the past. I found that Kingdom
        is mentioning aridity cycles in Africa. For a long time it was
        thought that this is global phenomenon, but they didn't find those
        cycles in Amazon (per that Internet site about rain forests).
        So, in short, Africa was a messy place (IMO) and the need
        for increased ability of canopy locomotion arose. This is why I
        said that chimp hand stiffened. They gained advanced ability to
        cross from tree to tree, but lost hand flexibility.
        And, if you ask me, the fact that orangs live so far from
        the center of human activities (in the past), and chimps live very
        closely, has something with the fact that chimps needed to change.
        -- Mario
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