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Re: hackberry trees & swamp cypresses

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  • andrew_and_inge
    ... apparently almost 60 spp of Celtis (eg, S-US, S-Europe., Africa, S- Asia...), AFAICS in warmer climates than today in Hungary, and often not in dense
    Message 1 of 11 , Sep 1, 2003
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      --- In AAT@yahoogroups.com, "Marc Verhaegen" <marc.verhaegen@v...>
      wrote:
      > Thank you very much, Andrew, you did a lot of research. There are
      apparently almost 60 spp of Celtis (eg, S-US, S-Europe., Africa, S-
      Asia...), AFAICS in warmer climates than today in Hungary, and often
      not in dense forests (Dryopith was suspensory: suggests dense
      forest). No clear link to flooded forests, to the contrary perhaps:
      seems to have become more widespread when swamp forests
      (Taxodium...) disappeared. Tolerant of seasonal drying? If apes
      lived near these trees, they very likely ate the fruits (& not
      impossibly even young leaves).
      >

      Actually, if you do a Google on the African species, it is hard to
      find out anything about the trees because all references are about
      their importance as primate food. Both the berries and the leaves
      seem to be typical African primate food.

      Concerning tolerance to drying, this seems to vary. In modern
      Europe, North Africa and Central Asia, the Nettle Trees seem to be
      adapted to dry conditions. In other places they seem to need
      reasonable watering and they tend to be close to rivers (but not in
      them as far as I could find out). I presume Miocene European trees
      would be more like the ones in Africa or America.

      Best Regards
      Andrew
    • Marc Verhaegen
      ... apparently almost 60 spp of Celtis (eg, S-US, S-Europe., Africa, S-Asia...), AFAICS in warmer climates than today in Hungary, and often not in dense
      Message 2 of 11 , Sep 1, 2003
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        >> Thank you very much, Andrew, you did a lot of research. There are
        apparently almost 60 spp of Celtis (eg, S-US, S-Europe., Africa, S-Asia...),
        AFAICS in warmer climates than today in Hungary, and often not in dense
        forests (Dryopith was suspensory: suggests dense forest). No clear link to
        flooded forests, to the contrary perhaps: Celtis seems to have become more
        widespread when swamp forests (Taxodium...) disappeared. Tolerant of
        seasonal drying? If apes lived near these trees, they very likely ate the
        fruits (& not impossibly even young leaves).

        > Actually, if you do a Google on the African species, it is hard to find
        out anything about the trees because all references are about their
        importance as primate food. Both the berries and the leaves seem to be
        typical African primate food. Concerning tolerance to drying, this seems
        to vary. In modern Europe, North Africa and Central Asia, the Nettle Trees
        seem to be adapted to dry conditions. In other places they seem to need
        reasonable watering and they tend to be close to rivers (but not in them as
        far as I could find out). I presume Miocene European trees would be more
        like the ones in Africa or America. Best Regards Andrew

        Probably, yes. The S-European coolings c.9 Ma (larger hominoids with
        superthick enamel in more open landscapes) seem to have parallels in
        E-Africa c.2 Ma (A.robustus & boisei, in parallel IMO). I wonder whether
        there were parallel evolutions from aquarboreal frugivores (Dryopith
        cf.graciles?) to hard object (reeds, bamboo...??) feeders in wetlands
        (Ouranopith cf.robusts?). I think I'll have to wait until Ouranopith
        postcrania will be discovered.

        Marc
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