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RE: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels

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  • John Petteruti
    MessageHeaters in a 113. Let me think. My three tracks would blast you out. Real warm. My troops never complained about it. They complained because I
    Message 1 of 21 , Dec 1, 2003
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      Heaters in a 113.  Let me think.  My three tracks would blast you out.  Real warm.  My troops never complained about it.  They complained because I would not let them stay in the damn things.
       
      Anyone ever road march from Baumholder to Graf.  What an experience.  15 MPH on the Autobaun. The Rads just loved it.  One evern it tail end charlie, an M60, that was assigned to us to protect our rear from some  hapless unit that was on our way.  German Police were pissed because of the stuff left on the road.
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Ginn, Matthew [mailto:matthew.ginn@...]
      Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 6:47 PM
      To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels

      Yep, when we were in the barracks it wasn't too bad, apart from the non-stop sh!t details and other bright ideas for keeping us busy.  Still, I didn't enjoy Graf much.  For the most part we were lock-stepped through the ranges.  No initiative required, just follow the script -- or else.
       
      Spending so much time waiting added a lot to the fun.  One night we were supposed to whip out to the range, fire, and return to the barracks.  The platoon made a tactical approach, dismounted the 50 cals, set up the 60s, all the riflemen flopped down to fire, and then we waited for range control to clear us to shoot . . . and waited . . . and waited . . . and waited. . . .   We were huddled over our weapons for hours.  Now, it had been freezing cold for weeks and there was six inches of snow on the ground, so that night everyone had gone out prepared for cold-dry weather, wearing field jackets with liners and our heavier German boots.  Almost no one brought a Baumholder jacket or other rain gear.  But while we lay there in the open from midnight to dawn, the temperature rose to just above freezing and it started to belt down rain.  Christ that was miserable, being soaked, frozen, and belly down in melting snow for hours.  And very, very pissed off.  Yes, very, very pissed off.  I remember one of the squad leaders lying there staring downrange over his rifle sights with tears pouring down his face. I imagine he was daydreaming about who he would like to kill first.
       
      He got his revenge later on the CALTEX, though.  Jumped up with a live LAW, took careful aim, and instead of putting a rocket through the tank target he managed to hit the lift device with a magnificent square-on shot.  The box jumped three feet in the air and flew apart with pieces of steel whizzing every which way.  Before that I was never really convinced that you could hit anything with a LAW or that it would make a difference if you did.  Like grenades, the LAW always struck me as being as much danger to the guy using it as to the one on the receiving end.
       
      Speaking about things of questionable performance, I'm surprised to hear the M113 track heaters were already crap in the early 1970s.  Were they ever any good?  Somebody tell me.  Our own heaters worked just often enough to get our hopes up;  the only reliable heater I knew of was in the Humvee ambulance.  My luckiest-ever return trip from Graf was in the back of one of those, when I got to lie down on a stretcher in a heated vehicle and sleep comfortably all the way to Baumholder -- first class.  No rail head runaround, no hundred-grunts-per-rail-carriage trip, and no freezing my ears off TCing an M113 down the autobahn for ten hours in the snow.  I couldn't have been happier on that ride if a stewardess showed up with free champagne.
       
      Anyway, compared to Graf, Hohenfels was a treat even in the worst weather.  And on a warm, sunny day it was downright pleasant. 
       
      -----Original Message-----
      From: James smith [mailto:ironworker20022002@...]
      Sent: Tuesday, 25 November 2003 1:13 PM
      To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....

      Damn Matthew  sounds like you had it made in Graf. We never saw the insides of buildings, we stayed in GP mediums Had those old diesel burnin stoves for heat and hot water and took a bath in our steel pots. this was a many a years ago, but I will never forget hohenfels,graf. It was so fuckin wet, muddy, and cold. Half the co. got pneumonia at one time or another. But it was still a great time over there.

      "Ginn, Matthew" <matthew.ginn@...> wrote:
      John,
       
      We were in those same barracks in the late '80s [in fact, the soldiers are still in those barracks], but they were much improved by then.  They had some form of central heat, hot showers, electricity to the rooms and so forth.  We still had a coal-fired power generation station in the middle of the unit with a big smokestack that, rumor had it, some fool had fallen off and killed himself.  Some genius at Baumholder Milcom decided to save money one winter by not heating the barracks and there was nearly a mutiny. 
       
      It wasn't too bad down at Graf and Hohenfels, either.  By the time I got there both posts had clean, heated open-bay buildings that you could pack into during down time.  My platoon sergeant in A-1/39 told me that in the 1970s they used to pitch tents and sleep outdoors during the winter training periods.  Glad I missed that.  We still got filthy, wet and frozen, but at least after a couple of days there was a chance to clean up and defrost a bit, even if it meant a trudge through rain and mud half a click across post.  One morning I decided to skip the cross-post trek and, instead, sneaked into some support unit's showers (located, of course, right next to my building).  Crept across the freshly cleaned floor, quietly slipped off the muddy boots, dropped the sopping, stinking BDUs in a heap, got a steamy shower running and was just ready to start the business when a pair of feet appeared next to the shower door.  I could hear my BDUs being turned over . . . imagined the crazy eight unit patch being examined . . . remembered my EIB in plain sight above the pocket . . . suddenly, an enraged female screamed "There's a ^%*&^ing earth pig in our showers!!!!" 
       
      Lucky no one outranked me or I'd still be scrubbing that place.  As it was, I had to tell a whole year's worth of lies just to get my clothes back.
       
      Matt
       
      -----Original Message-----
      From: John Petteruti [mailto:jpetteruti@...]
      Sent: Wednesday, 19 November 2003 11:59 PM
      To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....

      Matt;
       
      The 1/39 was indeed at Baumholder.  My troops even lived in barracks built for the Nazi's.  Real bummer.  Coal oil stoves, that sort of thing.
       
      I really appreciate the history listen. 
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Ginn, Matthew [mailto:matthew.ginn@...]
      Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 5:45 PM
      To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....

      John,
       
      I was with 1/39 Inf from early 1986 through to deactivation / redesignation in 1989.  Around the middle of '89 we were rebadged 4/12 Inf (and the neighbours, 1/13 Inf, became 3/12 Inf).  Same people, same equipment, same buildings, new name.  I believe this was just a realignment under the Combat Arms Regimental System.  Memory fails me at the moment, but I think that the 12th Infantry Regiment served with 8th ID in WWII, unlike 1/39 Inf (which was with 9th ID).
       
      After Gulf War I, when the Government decided to cut back the number of divisions and was drawing down and realigning the forces in Germany, 8th ID was deactivated and there was a combined move / takeover by 1AD. They came across (from Wurzburg?) and moved their HQ to Bad Kreuznach. 
       
      Later -- I think in the mid-'90s -- the two 2BDE Infantry units became 1/6 Inf and 2/6 Inf.  I suspect this was another CARS realignment, although I don't make the link with this unit and 1AD.  They're in Iraq right now, distributing bullets among deserving recipients.
       
      As an aside, 2/39 Inf is still going as a basic training unit in Fort Jackson.  Check it out:
       
       
      Was 1/39 Inf already in Baumholder by the early 1970s, or still in Worms?  Someone told me but I've forgotten.
       
      AAAO
       
      Matt Ginn
       
      -----Original Message-----
      From: John Petteruti [mailto:jpetteruti@...]
      Sent: Tuesday, 18 November 2003 2:49 AM
      To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....

      Matt, when did you serve with the 39th?  I am trying to find out what happened to my old unit.  I served with the 39th from 1971 to 1973.  Where they deactivated?
       
      Bar None,
       
      John
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Ginn, Matthew [mailto:matthew.ginn@...]
      Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2003 6:07 PM
      To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....

      Rich, Jim,

      Thanks for standing up and dealing with this. 

      Screening every email should help eliminate existing spammers, but once
      you're on top of that I'd like to back up what Joe Murphy recommended --
      that is, screen members instead of emails.  If you screen each new
      member you'll probably only have to act once, but if you screen every
      message you'll be going non-stop.  That means more work for you, it may
      cause delays, and sooner or later you'll let a duff message through and
      end up being a lightning rod.

      May I also suggest that you let non-8th ID ex-service members join, so
      long as they stick to the subject and don't be pests?  I lurk at a
      number of sites that have helped me piece together places and events
      during my years touring Germany on the back of an M-113, and most of the
      people involved seem to think that's legit. 

      Later today I'll go back through my old emails and forward your message
      to some of the guys who've dropped off the net.

      AAAO

      Matt Ginn
      1/39 Inf (M) & 4/12 Inf (M)
      Baumholder FRG

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Sonneborn, R.T. [mailto:pathfinder8thid@...]
      Sent: Sunday, 16 November 2003 7:16 AM
      To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....


      As of this email  we are actively screening all incoming emails ! For
      those members who have turned off their email feature due to the trash
      from before.....please feel free to reactivate this feature so you can
      receive all the latest updates/ photos and "looking for" notices  from
      the membership. 

      comments / complaints?   please email :

           comsec8thid@...

      The group  Seatbelt sign is now off, Please feel free to roam around the
      cabin......comsec8thid  has got your 6 ..........

      Rich / Jim




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      The information contained in this e-mail, and any attachments to it, is
      intended for the use of the addressee and is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use, disclose, read, forward, copy or retain any of the information. If you have received this e-mail in
      error, please delete it and notify the sender by return e-mail or telephone.
      The Commonwealth does not warrant that any attachments are free from viruses or any other defects. You assume all liability for any loss, damage or other consequences which may arise from opening or using the attachments.
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    • Steve Myers
      No we never had that experience but we did road march the whole battalion from Mainz to Vilsek (or maybe Mannheim or Hoenfels) I can t remember which. Yeah, it
      Message 2 of 21 , Dec 1, 2003
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        Message

        No we never had that experience but we did road march the whole battalion from Mainz to Vilsek (or maybe Mannheim or Hoenfels) I can’t remember which. Yeah, it was great no stopping, c-rats for chow, pissing in a jug, and if you had to crap you better hold on to it or risk getting pummeled by your crew. We actually did get to stop as some unlucky or maybe lucky Rad(depends on your point of view) should’ a zigged when he should’ a zagged, anyway he caught the car body on the end connectors and got a little chewed up. Good thing he didn’t get really caught! Polezei were not happy and the citizen was not happy Lt Col Brudvig was not happy. We stopped for a few minutes but then took off again as we were on a military mission and by God time was of the essence. I believe that we only had two breakdowns, which was miraculous, and they were towed in with the 88’s.  

         

        -----Original Message-----
        From: John Petteruti [mailto:jpetteruti@...]
        Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 8:24 AM
        To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels

         

        Heaters in a 113.  Let me think.  My three tracks would blast you out.  Real warm.  My troops never complained about it.  They complained because I would not let them stay in the damn things.

         

        Anyone ever road march from Baumholder to Graf.  What an experience.  15 MPH on the Autobaun. The Rads just loved it.  One evern it tail end charlie, an M60, that was assigned to us to protect our rear from some  hapless unit that was on our way.  German Police were pissed because of the stuff left on the road.

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Ginn, Matthew [mailto:matthew.ginn@...]
        Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 6:47 PM
        To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels

        Yep, when we were in the barracks it wasn't too bad, apart from the non-stop sh!t details and other bright ideas for keeping us busy.  Still, I didn't enjoy Graf much.  For the most part we were lock-stepped through the ranges.  No initiative required, just follow the script -- or else.

         

        Spending so much time waiting added a lot to the fun.  One night we were supposed to whip out to the range, fire, and return to the barracks.  The platoon made a tactical approach, dismounted the 50 cals, set up the 60s, all the riflemen flopped down to fire, and then we waited for range control to clear us to shoot . . . and waited . . . and waited . . . and waited. . . .   We were huddled over our weapons for hours.  Now, it had been freezing cold for weeks and there was six inches of snow on the ground, so that night everyone had gone out prepared for cold-dry weather, wearing field jackets with liners and our heavier German boots.  Almost no one brought a Baumholder jacket or other rain gear.  But while we lay there in the open from midnight to dawn, the temperature rose to just above freezing and it started to belt down rain.  Christ that was miserable, being soaked, frozen, and belly down in melting snow for hours.  And very, very pissed off.  Yes, very, very pissed off.  I remember one of the squad leaders lying there staring downrange over his rifle sights with tears pouring down his face. I imagine he was daydreaming about who he would like to kill first.

         

        He got his revenge later on the CALTEX, though.  Jumped up with a live LAW, took careful aim, and instead of putting a rocket through the tank target he managed to hit the lift device with a magnificent square-on shot.  The box jumped three feet in the air and flew apart with pieces of steel whizzing every which way.  Before that I was never really convinced that you could hit anything with a LAW or that it would make a difference if you did.  Like grenades, the LAW always struck me as being as much danger to the guy using it as to the one on the receiving end.

         

        Speaking about things of questionable performance, I'm surprised to hear the M113 track heaters were already crap in the early 1970s.  Were they ever any good?  Somebody tell me.  Our own heaters worked just often enough to get our hopes up;  the only reliable heater I knew of was in the Humvee ambulance.  My luckiest-ever return trip from Graf was in the back of one of those, when I got to lie down on a stretcher in a heated vehicle and sleep comfortably all the way to Baumholder -- first class.  No rail head runaround, no hundred-grunts-per-rail-carriage trip, and no freezing my ears off TCing an M113 down the autobahn for ten hours in the snow.  I couldn't have been happier on that ride if a stewardess showed up with free champagne.

         

        Anyway, compared to Graf, Hohenfels was a treat even in the worst weather.  And on a warm, sunny day it was downright pleasant. 

         

        -----Original Message-----
        From: James smith [mailto:ironworker20022002@...]
        Sent: Tuesday, 25 November 2003 1:13 PM
        To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....

        Damn Matthew  sounds like you had it made in Graf. We never saw the insides of buildings, we stayed in GP mediums Had those old diesel burnin stoves for heat and hot water and took a bath in our steel pots. this was a many a years ago, but I will never forget hohenfels,graf. It was so fuckin wet, muddy, and cold. Half the co. got pneumonia at one time or another. But it was still a great time over there.

        "Ginn, Matthew" <matthew.ginn@...> wrote:

        John,

         

        We were in those same barracks in the late '80s [in fact, the soldiers are still in those barracks], but they were much improved by then.  They had some form of central heat, hot showers, electricity to the rooms and so forth.  We still had a coal-fired power generation station in the middle of the unit with a big smokestack that, rumor had it, some fool had fallen off and killed himself.  Some genius at Baumholder Milcom decided to save money one winter by not heating the barracks and there was nearly a mutiny. 

         

        It wasn't too bad down at Graf and Hohenfels, either.  By the time I got there both posts had clean, heated open-bay buildings that you could pack into during down time.  My platoon sergeant in A-1/39 told me that in the 1970s they used to pitch tents and sleep outdoors during the winter training periods.  Glad I missed that.  We still got filthy, wet and frozen, but at least after a couple of days there was a chance to clean up and defrost a bit, even if it meant a trudge through rain and mud half a click across post.  One morning I decided to skip the cross-post trek and, instead, sneaked into some support unit's showers (located, of course, right next to my building).  Crept across the freshly cleaned floor, quietly slipped off the muddy boots, dropped the sopping, stinking BDUs in a heap, got a steamy shower running and was just ready to start the business when a pair of feet appeared next to the shower door.  I could hear my BDUs being turned over . . . imagined the crazy eight unit patch being examined . . . remembered my EIB in plain sight above the pocket . . . suddenly, an enraged female screamed "There's a ^%*&^ing earth pig in our showers!!!!" 

         

        Lucky no one outranked me or I'd still be scrubbing that place.  As it was, I had to tell a whole year's worth of lies just to get my clothes back.

         

        Matt

         

        -----Original Message-----
        From: John Petteruti [mailto:jpetteruti@...]
        Sent: Wednesday, 19 November 2003 11:59 PM
        To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....

        Matt;

         

        The 1/39 was indeed at Baumholder.  My troops even lived in barracks built for the Nazi's.  Real bummer.  Coal oil stoves, that sort of thing.

         

        I really appreciate the history listen. 

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Ginn, Matthew [mailto:matthew.ginn@...]
        Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 5:45 PM
        To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....

        John,

         

        I was with 1/39 Inf from early 1986 through to deactivation / redesignation in 1989.  Around the middle of '89 we were rebadged 4/12 Inf (and the neighbours, 1/13 Inf, became 3/12 Inf).  Same people, same equipment, same buildings, new name.  I believe this was just a realignment under the Combat Arms Regimental System.  Memory fails me at the moment, but I think that the 12th Infantry Regiment served with 8th ID in WWII, unlike 1/39 Inf (which was with 9th ID).

         

        After Gulf War I, when the Government decided to cut back the number of divisions and was drawing down and realigning the forces in Germany, 8th ID was deactivated and there was a combined move / takeover by 1AD. They came across (from Wurzburg?) and moved their HQ to Bad Kreuznach. 

         

        Later -- I think in the mid-'90s -- the two 2BDE Infantry units became 1/6 Inf and 2/6 Inf.  I suspect this was another CARS realignment, although I don't make the link with this unit and 1AD.  They're in Iraq right now, distributing bullets among deserving recipients.

         

        As an aside, 2/39 Inf is still going as a basic training unit in Fort Jackson.  Check it out:

         

         

        Was 1/39 Inf already in Baumholder by the early 1970s, or still in Worms?  Someone told me but I've forgotten.

         

        AAAO

         

        Matt Ginn

         

        -----Original Message-----
        From: John Petteruti [mailto:jpetteruti@...]
        Sent: Tuesday, 18 November 2003 2:49 AM
        To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....

        Matt, when did you serve with the 39th?  I am trying to find out what happened to my old unit.  I served with the 39th from 1971 to 1973.  Where they deactivated?

         

        Bar None,

         

        John

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Ginn, Matthew [mailto:matthew.ginn@...]
        Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2003 6:07 PM
        To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....

        Rich, Jim,

        Thanks for standing up and dealing with this. 

        Screening every email should help eliminate existing spammers, but once
        you're on top of that I'd like to back up what Joe Murphy recommended --
        that is, screen members instead of emails.  If you screen each new
        member you'll probably only have to act once, but if you screen every
        message you'll be going non-stop.  That means more work for you, it may
        cause delays, and sooner or later you'll let a duff message through and
        end up being a lightning rod.

        May I also suggest that you let non-8th ID ex-service members join, so
        long as they stick to the subject and don't be pests?  I lurk at a
        number of sites that have helped me piece together places and events
        during my years touring Germany on the back of an M-113, and most of the
        people involved seem to think that's legit. 

        Later today I'll go back through my old emails and forward your message
        to some of the guys who've dropped off the net.

        AAAO

        Matt Ginn
        1/39 Inf (M) & 4/12 Inf (M)
        Baumholder FRG

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Sonneborn, R.T. [mailto:pathfinder8thid@...]
        Sent: Sunday, 16 November 2003 7:16 AM
        To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....


        As of this email  we are actively screening all incoming emails ! For
        those members who have turned off their email feature due to the trash
        from before.....please feel free to reactivate this feature so you can
        receive all the latest updates/ photos and "looking for" notices  from
        the membership. 

        comments / complaints?   please email :

             comsec8thid@...

        The group  Seatbelt sign is now off, Please feel free to roam around the
        cabin......comsec8thid  has got your 6 ..........

        Rich / Jim




        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        8thdivmodern-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



        **********************************************************************
        The information contained in this e-mail, and any attachments to it, is
        intended for the use of the addressee and is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use, disclose, read, forward, copy or retain any of the information. If you have received this e-mail in
        error, please delete it and notify the sender by return e-mail or telephone.
        The Commonwealth does not warrant that any attachments are free from viruses or any other defects. You assume all liability for any loss, damage or other consequences which may arise from opening or using the attachments.
        ***********************************************************************************



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        **********************************************************************
        The information contained in this e-mail, and any attachments to it, is
        intended for the use of the addressee and is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use, disclose, read, forward, copy or retain any of the information. If you have received this e-mail in
        error, please delete it and notify the sender by return e-mail or telephone.
        The Commonwealth does not warrant that any attachments are free from viruses or any other defects. You assume all liability for any loss, damage or other consequences which may arise from opening or using the attachments.
        ***********************************************************************************


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        The information contained in this e-mail, and any attachments to it, is
        intended for the use of the addressee and is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use, disclose, read, forward, copy or retain any of the information. If you have received this e-mail in
        error, please delete it and notify the sender by return e-mail or telephone.
        The Commonwealth does not warrant that any attachments are free from viruses or any other defects. You assume all liability for any loss, damage or other consequences which may arise from opening or using the attachments.
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        intended for the use of the addressee and is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use, disclose, read, forward, copy or retain any of the information. If you have received this e-mail in
        error, please delete it and notify the sender by return e-mail or telephone.
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      • Jerry Walker
        Yes, we road-marched to Graf, but we were the Division Artillery HQ, which meant we had wheeled vehicles. which meant we were allowed to do 45 mph on the
        Message 3 of 21 , Dec 1, 2003
        • 0 Attachment
          Yes, we road-marched to Graf, but we were the Division Artillery HQ, which meant we had wheeled vehicles. which meant we were allowed to do 45 mph on the autobahn.  We had five Artillery battalions under us.  We were there as their Command post, which meant radio communication from us. 

          John Petteruti <jpetteruti@...> wrote:
          Heaters in a 113.  Let me think.  My three tracks would blast you out.  Real warm.  My troops never complained about it.  They complained because I would not let them stay in the damn things.
           
          Anyone ever road march from Baumholder to Graf.  What an experience.  15 MPH on the Autobaun. The Rads just loved it.  One evern it tail end charlie, an M60, that was assigned to us to protect our rear from some  hapless unit that was on our way.  German Police were pissed because of the stuff left on the road.
          -----Original Message-----
          From: Ginn, Matthew [mailto:matthew.ginn@...]
          Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 6:47 PM
          To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels

          Yep, when we were in the barracks it wasn't too bad, apart from the non-stop sh!t details and other bright ideas for keeping us busy.  Still, I didn't enjoy Graf much.  For the most part we were lock-stepped through the ranges.  No initiative required, just follow the script -- or else.
           
          Spending so much time waiting added a lot to the fun.  One night we were supposed to whip out to the range, fire, and return to the barracks.  The platoon made a tactical approach, dismounted the 50 cals, set up the 60s, all the riflemen flopped down to fire, and then we waited for range control to clear us to shoot . . . and waited . . . and waited . . . and waited. . . .   We were huddled over our weapons for hours.  Now, it had been freezing cold for weeks and there was six inches of snow on the ground, so that night everyone had gone out prepared for cold-dry weather, wearing field jackets with liners and our heavier German boots.  Almost no one brought a Baumholder jacket or other rain gear.  But while we lay there in the open from midnight to dawn, the temperature rose to just above freezing and it started to belt down rain.  Christ that was miserable, being soaked, frozen, and belly down in melting snow for hours.  And very, very pissed off.  Yes, very, very pissed off.  I remember one of the squad leaders lying there staring downrange over his rifle sights with tears pouring down his face. I imagine he was daydreaming about who he would like to kill first.
           
          He got his revenge later on the CALTEX, though.  Jumped up with a live LAW, took careful aim, and instead of putting a rocket through the tank target he managed to hit the lift device with a magnificent square-on shot.  The box jumped three feet in the air and flew apart with pieces of steel whizzing every which way.  Before that I was never really convinced that you could hit anything with a LAW or that it would make a difference if you did.  Like grenades, the LAW always struck me as being as much danger to the guy using it as to the one on the receiving end.
           
          Speaking about things of questionable performance, I'm surprised to hear the M113 track heaters were already crap in the early 1970s.  Were they ever any good?  Somebody tell me.  Our own heaters worked just often enough to get our hopes up;  the only reliable heater I knew of was in the Humvee ambulance.  My luckiest-ever return trip from Graf was in the back of one of those, when I got to lie down on a stretcher in a heated vehicle and sleep comfortably all the way to Baumholder -- first class.  No rail head runaround, no hundred-grunts-per-rail-carriage trip, and no freezing my ears off TCing an M113 down the autobahn for ten hours in the snow.  I couldn't have been happier on that ride if a stewardess showed up with free champagne.
           
          Anyway, compared to Graf, Hohenfels was a treat even in the worst weather.  And on a warm, sunny day it was downright pleasant. 
           
          -----Original Message-----
          From: James smith [mailto:ironworker20022002@...]
          Sent: Tuesday, 25 November 2003 1:13 PM
          To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....

          Damn Matthew  sounds like you had it made in Graf. We never saw the insides of buildings, we stayed in GP mediums Had those old diesel burnin stoves for heat and hot water and took a bath in our steel pots. this was a many a years ago, but I will never forget hohenfels,graf. It was so fuckin wet, muddy, and cold. Half the co. got pneumonia at one time or another. But it was still a great time over there.

          "Ginn, Matthew" <matthew.ginn@...> wrote:
          John,
           
          We were in those same barracks in the late '80s [in fact, the soldiers are still in those barracks], but they were much improved by then.  They had some form of central heat, hot showers, electricity to the rooms and so forth.  We still had a coal-fired power generation station in the middle of the unit with a big smokestack that, rumor had it, some fool had fallen off and killed himself.  Some genius at Baumholder Milcom decided to save money one winter by not heating the barracks and there was nearly a mutiny. 
           
          It wasn't too bad down at Graf and Hohenfels, either.  By the time I got there both posts had clean, heated open-bay buildings that you could pack into during down time.  My platoon sergeant in A-1/39 told me that in the 1970s they used to pitch tents and sleep outdoors during the winter training periods.  Glad I missed that.  We still got filthy, wet and frozen, but at least after a couple of days there was a chance to clean up and defrost a bit, even if it meant a trudge through rain and mud half a click across post.  One morning I decided to skip the cross-post trek and, instead, sneaked into some support unit's showers (located, of course, right next to my building).  Crept across the freshly cleaned floor, quietly slipped off the muddy boots, dropped the sopping, stinking BDUs in a heap, got a steamy shower running and was just ready to start the business when a pair of feet appeared next to the shower door.  I could hear my BDUs being turned over . . . imagined the crazy eight unit patch being examined . . . remembered my EIB in plain sight above the pocket . . . suddenly, an enraged female screamed "There's a ^%*&^ing earth pig in our showers!!!!" 
           
          Lucky no one outranked me or I'd still be scrubbing that place.  As it was, I had to tell a whole year's worth of lies just to get my clothes back.
           
          Matt
           
          -----Original Message-----
          From: John Petteruti [mailto:jpetteruti@...]
          Sent: Wednesday, 19 November 2003 11:59 PM
          To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....

          Matt;
           
          The 1/39 was indeed at Baumholder.  My troops even lived in barracks built for the Nazi's.  Real bummer.  Coal oil stoves, that sort of thing.
           
          I really appreciate the history listen. 
          -----Original Message-----
          From: Ginn, Matthew [mailto:matthew.ginn@...]
          Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 5:45 PM
          To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....

          John,
           
          I was with 1/39 Inf from early 1986 through to deactivation / redesignation in 1989.  Around the middle of '89 we were rebadged 4/12 Inf (and the neighbours, 1/13 Inf, became 3/12 Inf).  Same people, same equipment, same buildings, new name.  I believe this was just a realignment under the Combat Arms Regimental System.  Memory fails me at the moment, but I think that the 12th Infantry Regiment served with 8th ID in WWII, unlike 1/39 Inf (which was with 9th ID).
           
          After Gulf War I, when the Government decided to cut back the number of divisions and was drawing down and realigning the forces in Germany, 8th ID was deactivated and there was a combined move / takeover by 1AD. They came across (from Wurzburg?) and moved their HQ to Bad Kreuznach. 
           
          Later -- I think in the mid-'90s -- the two 2BDE Infantry units became 1/6 Inf and 2/6 Inf.  I suspect this was another CARS realignment, although I don't make the link with this unit and 1AD.  They're in Iraq right now, distributing bullets among deserving recipients.
           
          As an aside, 2/39 Inf is still going as a basic training unit in Fort Jackson.  Check it out:
           
           
          Was 1/39 Inf already in Baumholder by the early 1970s, or still in Worms?  Someone told me but I've forgotten.
           
          AAAO
           
          Matt Ginn
           
          -----Original Message-----
          From: John Petteruti [mailto:jpetteruti@...]
          Sent: Tuesday, 18 November 2003 2:49 AM
          To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....

          Matt, when did you serve with the 39th?  I am trying to find out what happened to my old unit.  I served with the 39th from 1971 to 1973.  Where they deactivated?
           
          Bar None,
           
          John
          -----Original Message-----
          From: Ginn, Matthew [mailto:matthew.ginn@...]
          Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2003 6:07 PM
          To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....

          Rich, Jim,

          Thanks for standing up and dealing with this. 

          Screening every email should help eliminate existing spammers, but once
          you're on top of that I'd like to back up what Joe Murphy recommended --
          that is, screen members instead of emails.  If you screen each new
          member you'll probably only have to act once, but if you screen every
          message you'll be going non-stop.  That means more work for you, it may
          cause delays, and sooner or later you'll let a duff message through and
          end up being a lightning rod.

          May I also suggest that you let non-8th ID ex-service members join, so
          long as they stick to the subject and don't be pests?  I lurk at a
          number of sites that have helped me piece together places and events
          during my years touring Germany on the back of an M-113, and most of the
          people involved seem to think that's legit. 

          Later today I'll go back through my old emails and forward your message
          to some of the guys who've dropped off the net.

          AAAO

          Matt Ginn
          1/39 Inf (M) & 4/12 Inf (M)
          Baumholder FRG

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Sonneborn, R.T. [mailto:pathfinder8thid@...]
          Sent: Sunday, 16 November 2003 7:16 AM
          To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....


          As of this email  we are actively screening all incoming emails ! For
          those members who have turned off their email feature due to the trash
          from before.....please feel free to reactivate this feature so you can
          receive all the latest updates/ photos and "looking for" notices  from
          the membership. 

          comments / complaints?   please email :

               comsec8thid@...

          The group  Seatbelt sign is now off, Please feel free to roam around the
          cabin......comsec8thid  has got your 6 ..........

          Rich / Jim




          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          8thdivmodern-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



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          intended for the use of the addressee and is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use, disclose, read, forward, copy or retain any of the information. If you have received this e-mail in
          error, please delete it and notify the sender by return e-mail or telephone.
          The Commonwealth does not warrant that any attachments are free from viruses or any other defects. You assume all liability for any loss, damage or other consequences which may arise from opening or using the attachments.
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        • Ginn, Matthew
          Well, it s good that the taxpayer got at least a few years of reliability out of those heaters. We did the roach march to Graf once. It was ungodly and, like
          Message 4 of 21 , Dec 1, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            Message
            Well, it's good that the taxpayer got at least a few years of reliability out of those heaters. 
             
            We did the roach march to Graf once.  It was ungodly and, like you said, the Germans just hated it.  Who can blame them?  Heading out the south tank trail, one of us threw a track pad that went through the windshield of some poor German guy's new Mercedes.  I remember seeing a track pad fly out the back of my own 113 and bounce off the roof of the car following two vehicles behind.  The driver flew up alongside screaming and waving, so I just smiled, pretended I hadn't seen anything, and waved politely back.
             
            We didn't use an M-60 at the column's end, but we should've.  The year before I got there our battalion lost a jeep and a couple of soldiers to an over-enthusiastic autobahn cruiser who wiped them out at something like 160 kph.  But that cut both ways, too.  Driving in from Vilseck one year we had to pass a Mercedes that cut in too close in front of an armoured column and got flattened (complete with driver and passenger) by a tank.  Not a pretty sight, regardless of who was at fault.
             
            -----Original Message-----
            From: John Petteruti [mailto:jpetteruti@...]
            Sent: Tuesday, 2 December 2003 1:24 AM
            To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels

            Heaters in a 113.  Let me think.  My three tracks would blast you out.  Real warm.  My troops never complained about it.  They complained because I would not let them stay in the damn things.
             
            Anyone ever road march from Baumholder to Graf.  What an experience.  15 MPH on the Autobaun. The Rads just loved it.  One evern it tail end charlie, an M60, that was assigned to us to protect our rear from some  hapless unit that was on our way.  German Police were pissed because of the stuff left on the road.
            -----Original Message-----
            From: Ginn, Matthew [mailto:matthew.ginn@...]
            Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 6:47 PM
            To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels

            Yep, when we were in the barracks it wasn't too bad, apart from the non-stop sh!t details and other bright ideas for keeping us busy.  Still, I didn't enjoy Graf much.  For the most part we were lock-stepped through the ranges.  No initiative required, just follow the script -- or else.
             
            Spending so much time waiting added a lot to the fun.  One night we were supposed to whip out to the range, fire, and return to the barracks.  The platoon made a tactical approach, dismounted the 50 cals, set up the 60s, all the riflemen flopped down to fire, and then we waited for range control to clear us to shoot . . . and waited . . . and waited . . . and waited. . . .   We were huddled over our weapons for hours.  Now, it had been freezing cold for weeks and there was six inches of snow on the ground, so that night everyone had gone out prepared for cold-dry weather, wearing field jackets with liners and our heavier German boots.  Almost no one brought a Baumholder jacket or other rain gear.  But while we lay there in the open from midnight to dawn, the temperature rose to just above freezing and it started to belt down rain.  Christ that was miserable, being soaked, frozen, and belly down in melting snow for hours.  And very, very pissed off.  Yes, very, very pissed off.  I remember one of the squad leaders lying there staring downrange over his rifle sights with tears pouring down his face. I imagine he was daydreaming about who he would like to kill first.
             
            He got his revenge later on the CALTEX, though.  Jumped up with a live LAW, took careful aim, and instead of putting a rocket through the tank target he managed to hit the lift device with a magnificent square-on shot.  The box jumped three feet in the air and flew apart with pieces of steel whizzing every which way.  Before that I was never really convinced that you could hit anything with a LAW or that it would make a difference if you did.  Like grenades, the LAW always struck me as being as much danger to the guy using it as to the one on the receiving end.
             
            Speaking about things of questionable performance, I'm surprised to hear the M113 track heaters were already crap in the early 1970s.  Were they ever any good?  Somebody tell me.  Our own heaters worked just often enough to get our hopes up;  the only reliable heater I knew of was in the Humvee ambulance.  My luckiest-ever return trip from Graf was in the back of one of those, when I got to lie down on a stretcher in a heated vehicle and sleep comfortably all the way to Baumholder -- first class.  No rail head runaround, no hundred-grunts-per-rail-carriage trip, and no freezing my ears off TCing an M113 down the autobahn for ten hours in the snow.  I couldn't have been happier on that ride if a stewardess showed up with free champagne.
             
            Anyway, compared to Graf, Hohenfels was a treat even in the worst weather.  And on a warm, sunny day it was downright pleasant. 
             
            -----Original Message-----
            From: James smith [mailto:ironworker20022002@...]
            Sent: Tuesday, 25 November 2003 1:13 PM
            To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....

            Damn Matthew  sounds like you had it made in Graf. We never saw the insides of buildings, we stayed in GP mediums Had those old diesel burnin stoves for heat and hot water and took a bath in our steel pots. this was a many a years ago, but I will never forget hohenfels,graf. It was so fuckin wet, muddy, and cold. Half the co. got pneumonia at one time or another. But it was still a great time over there.

            "Ginn, Matthew" <matthew.ginn@...> wrote:
            John,
             
            We were in those same barracks in the late '80s [in fact, the soldiers are still in those barracks], but they were much improved by then.  They had some form of central heat, hot showers, electricity to the rooms and so forth.  We still had a coal-fired power generation station in the middle of the unit with a big smokestack that, rumor had it, some fool had fallen off and killed himself.  Some genius at Baumholder Milcom decided to save money one winter by not heating the barracks and there was nearly a mutiny. 
             
            It wasn't too bad down at Graf and Hohenfels, either.  By the time I got there both posts had clean, heated open-bay buildings that you could pack into during down time.  My platoon sergeant in A-1/39 told me that in the 1970s they used to pitch tents and sleep outdoors during the winter training periods.  Glad I missed that.  We still got filthy, wet and frozen, but at least after a couple of days there was a chance to clean up and defrost a bit, even if it meant a trudge through rain and mud half a click across post.  One morning I decided to skip the cross-post trek and, instead, sneaked into some support unit's showers (located, of course, right next to my building).  Crept across the freshly cleaned floor, quietly slipped off the muddy boots, dropped the sopping, stinking BDUs in a heap, got a steamy shower running and was just ready to start the business when a pair of feet appeared next to the shower door.  I could hear my BDUs being turned over . . . imagined the crazy eight unit patch being examined . . . remembered my EIB in plain sight above the pocket . . . suddenly, an enraged female screamed "There's a ^%*&^ing earth pig in our showers!!!!" 
             
            Lucky no one outranked me or I'd still be scrubbing that place.  As it was, I had to tell a whole year's worth of lies just to get my clothes back.
             
            Matt
             
            -----Original Message-----
            From: John Petteruti [mailto:jpetteruti@...]
            Sent: Wednesday, 19 November 2003 11:59 PM
            To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....

            Matt;
             
            The 1/39 was indeed at Baumholder.  My troops even lived in barracks built for the Nazi's.  Real bummer.  Coal oil stoves, that sort of thing.
             
            I really appreciate the history listen. 
            -----Original Message-----
            From: Ginn, Matthew [mailto:matthew.ginn@...]
            Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 5:45 PM
            To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....

            John,
             
            I was with 1/39 Inf from early 1986 through to deactivation / redesignation in 1989.  Around the middle of '89 we were rebadged 4/12 Inf (and the neighbours, 1/13 Inf, became 3/12 Inf).  Same people, same equipment, same buildings, new name.  I believe this was just a realignment under the Combat Arms Regimental System.  Memory fails me at the moment, but I think that the 12th Infantry Regiment served with 8th ID in WWII, unlike 1/39 Inf (which was with 9th ID).
             
            After Gulf War I, when the Government decided to cut back the number of divisions and was drawing down and realigning the forces in Germany, 8th ID was deactivated and there was a combined move / takeover by 1AD. They came across (from Wurzburg?) and moved their HQ to Bad Kreuznach. 
             
            Later -- I think in the mid-'90s -- the two 2BDE Infantry units became 1/6 Inf and 2/6 Inf.  I suspect this was another CARS realignment, although I don't make the link with this unit and 1AD.  They're in Iraq right now, distributing bullets among deserving recipients.
             
            As an aside, 2/39 Inf is still going as a basic training unit in Fort Jackson.  Check it out:
             
             
            Was 1/39 Inf already in Baumholder by the early 1970s, or still in Worms?  Someone told me but I've forgotten.
             
            AAAO
             
            Matt Ginn
             
            -----Original Message-----
            From: John Petteruti [mailto:jpetteruti@...]
            Sent: Tuesday, 18 November 2003 2:49 AM
            To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....

            Matt, when did you serve with the 39th?  I am trying to find out what happened to my old unit.  I served with the 39th from 1971 to 1973.  Where they deactivated?
             
            Bar None,
             
            John
            -----Original Message-----
            From: Ginn, Matthew [mailto:matthew.ginn@...]
            Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2003 6:07 PM
            To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....

            Rich, Jim,

            Thanks for standing up and dealing with this. 

            Screening every email should help eliminate existing spammers, but once
            you're on top of that I'd like to back up what Joe Murphy recommended --
            that is, screen members instead of emails.  If you screen each new
            member you'll probably only have to act once, but if you screen every
            message you'll be going non-stop.  That means more work for you, it may
            cause delays, and sooner or later you'll let a duff message through and
            end up being a lightning rod.

            May I also suggest that you let non-8th ID ex-service members join, so
            long as they stick to the subject and don't be pests?  I lurk at a
            number of sites that have helped me piece together places and events
            during my years touring Germany on the back of an M-113, and most of the
            people involved seem to think that's legit. 

            Later today I'll go back through my old emails and forward your message
            to some of the guys who've dropped off the net.

            AAAO

            Matt Ginn
            1/39 Inf (M) & 4/12 Inf (M)
            Baumholder FRG

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Sonneborn, R.T. [mailto:pathfinder8thid@...]
            Sent: Sunday, 16 November 2003 7:16 AM
            To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....


            As of this email  we are actively screening all incoming emails ! For
            those members who have turned off their email feature due to the trash
            from before.....please feel free to reactivate this feature so you can
            receive all the latest updates/ photos and "looking for" notices  from
            the membership. 

            comments / complaints?   please email :

                 comsec8thid@...

            The group  Seatbelt sign is now off, Please feel free to roam around the
            cabin......comsec8thid  has got your 6 ..........

            Rich / Jim




            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            8thdivmodern-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



            **********************************************************************
            The information contained in this e-mail, and any attachments to it, is
            intended for the use of the addressee and is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you must not use, disclose, read, forward, copy or retain any of the information. If you have received this e-mail in
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          • jack cull
            Heaters ??? we had open M 5 Tracks Steve Myers wrote: v :* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}o :* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}w :*
            Message 5 of 21 , Dec 2, 2003
            • 0 Attachment
              Heaters ??? we had open M 5 Tracks

              Steve Myers <smyers@...> wrote:

              No we never had that experience but we did road march the whole battalion from Mainz to Vilsek (or maybe Mannheim or Hoenfels) I can�t remember which. Yeah, it was great no stopping, c-rats for chow, pissing in a jug, and if you had to crap you better hold on to it or risk getting pummeled by your crew. We actually did get to stop as some unlucky or maybe lucky Rad(depends on your point of view) should� a zigged when he should� a zagged, anyway he caught the car body on the end connectors and got a little chewed up. Good thing he didn�t get really caught! Polezei were not happy and the citizen was not happy Lt Col Brudvig was not happy. We stopped for a few minutes but then took off again as we were on a military mission and by God time was of the essence. I believe that we only had two breakdowns, which was miraculous, and they were towed in with the 88�s.  

               

              -----Original Message-----
              From: John Petteruti [mailto:jpetteruti@...]
              Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 8:24 AM
              To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels

               

              Heaters in a 113.  Let me think.  My three tracks would blast you out.  Real warm.  My troops never complained about it.  They complained because I would not let them stay in the damn things.

               

              Anyone ever road march from Baumholder to Graf.  What an experience.  15 MPH on the Autobaun. The Rads just loved it.  One evern it tail end charlie, an M60, that was assigned to us to protect our rear from some  hapless unit that was on our way.  German Police were pissed because of the stuff left on the road.

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Ginn, Matthew [mailto:matthew.ginn@...]
              Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 6:47 PM
              To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels

              Yep, when we were in the barracks it wasn't too bad, apart from the non-stop sh!t details and other bright ideas for keeping us busy.  Still, I didn't enjoy Graf much.  For the most part we were lock-stepped through the ranges.  No initiative required, just follow the script -- or else.

               

              Spending so much time waiting added a lot to the fun.  One night we were supposed to whip out to the range, fire, and return to the barracks.  The platoon made a tactical approach, dismounted the 50 cals, set up the 60s, all the riflemen flopped down to fire, and then we waited for range control to clear us to shoot . . . and waited . . . and waited . . . and waited. . . .   We were huddled over our weapons for hours.  Now, it had been freezing cold for weeks and there was six inches of snow on the ground, so that night everyone had gone out prepared for cold-dry weather, wearing field jackets with liners and our heavier German boots.  Almost no one brought a Baumholder jacket or other rain gear.  But while we lay there in the open from midnight to dawn, the temperature rose to just above freezing and it started to belt down rain.  Christ that was miserable, being soaked, frozen, and belly down in melting snow for hours.  And very, very pissed off.  Yes, very, very pissed off.  I remember one of the squad leaders lying there staring downrange over his rifle sights with tears pouring down his face. I imagine he was daydreaming about who he would like to kill first.

               

              He got his revenge later on the CALTEX, though.  Jumped up with a live LAW, took careful aim, and instead of putting a rocket through the tank target he managed to hit the lift device with a magnificent square-on shot.  The box jumped three feet in the air and flew apart with pieces of steel whizzing every which way.  Before that I was never really convinced that you could hit anything with a LAW or that it would make a difference if you did.  Like grenades, the LAW always struck me as being as much danger to the guy using it as to the one on the receiving end.

               

              Speaking about things of questionable performance, I'm surprised to hear the M113 track heaters were already crap in the early 1970s.  Were they ever any good?  Somebody tell me.  Our own heaters worked just often enough to get our hopes up;  the only reliable heater I knew of was in the Humvee ambulance.  My luckiest-ever return trip from Graf was in the back of one of those, when I got to lie down on a stretcher in a heated vehicle and sleep comfortably all the way to Baumholder -- first class.  No rail head runaround, no hundred-grunts-per-rail-carriage trip, and no freezing my ears off TCing an M113 down the autobahn for ten hours in the snow.  I couldn't have been happier on that ride if a stewardess showed up with free champagne.

               

              Anyway, compared to Graf, Hohenfels was a treat even in the worst weather.  And on a warm, sunny day it was downright pleasant. 

               

              -----Original Message-----
              From: James smith [mailto:ironworker20022002@...]
              Sent: Tuesday, 25 November 2003 1:13 PM
              To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....

              Damn Matthew  sounds like you had it made in Graf. We never saw the insides of buildings, we stayed in GP mediums Had those old diesel burnin stoves for heat and hot water and took a bath in our steel pots. this was a many a years ago, but I will never forget hohenfels,graf. It was so fuckin wet, muddy, and cold. Half the co. got pneumonia at one time or another. But it was still a great time over there.

              "Ginn, Matthew" <matthew.ginn@...> wrote:

              John,

               

              We were in those same barracks in the late '80s [in fact, the soldiers are still in those barracks], but they were much improved by then.  They had some form of central heat, hot showers, electricity to the rooms and so forth.  We still had a coal-fired power generation station in the middle of the unit with a big smokestack that, rumor had it, some fool had fallen off and killed himself.  Some genius at Baumholder Milcom decided to save money one winter by not heating the barracks and there was nearly a mutiny. 

               

              It wasn't too bad down at Graf and Hohenfels, either.  By the time I got there both posts had clean, heated open-bay buildings that you could pack into during down time.  My platoon sergeant in A-1/39 told me that in the 1970s they used to pitch tents and sleep outdoors during the winter training periods.  Glad I missed that.  We still got filthy, wet and frozen, but at least after a couple of days there was a chance to clean up and defrost a bit, even if it meant a trudge through rain and mud half a click across post.  One morning I decided to skip the cross-post trek and, instead, sneaked into some support unit's showers (located, of course, right next to my building).  Crept across the freshly cleaned floor, quietly slipped off the muddy boots, dropped the sopping, stinking BDUs in a heap, got a steamy shower running and was just ready to start the business when a pair of feet appeared next to the shower door.  I could hear my BDUs being turned over . . . imagined the crazy eight unit patch being examined . . . remembered my EIB in plain sight above the pocket . . . suddenly, an enraged female screamed "There's a ^%*&^ing earth pig in our showers!!!!" 

               

              Lucky no one outranked me or I'd still be scrubbing that place.  As it was, I had to tell a whole year's worth of lies just to get my clothes back.

               

              Matt

               

              -----Original Message-----
              From: John Petteruti [mailto:jpetteruti@...]
              Sent: Wednesday, 19 November 2003 11:59 PM
              To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....

              Matt;

               

              The 1/39 was indeed at Baumholder.  My troops even lived in barracks built for the Nazi's.  Real bummer.  Coal oil stoves, that sort of thing.

               

              I really appreciate the history listen. 

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Ginn, Matthew [mailto:matthew.ginn@...]
              Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 5:45 PM
              To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....

              John,

               

              I was with 1/39 Inf from early 1986 through to deactivation / redesignation in 1989.  Around the middle of '89 we were rebadged 4/12 Inf (and the neighbours, 1/13 Inf, became 3/12 Inf).  Same people, same equipment, same buildings, new name.  I believe this was just a realignment under the Combat Arms Regimental System.  Memory fails me at the moment, but I think that the 12th Infantry Regiment served with 8th ID in WWII, unlike 1/39 Inf (which was with 9th ID).

               

              After Gulf War I, when the Government decided to cut back the number of divisions and was drawing down and realigning the forces in Germany, 8th ID was deactivated and there was a combined move / takeover by 1AD. They came across (from Wurzburg?) and moved their HQ to Bad Kreuznach. 

               

              Later -- I think in the mid-'90s -- the two 2BDE Infantry units became 1/6 Inf and 2/6 Inf.  I suspect this was another CARS realignment, although I don't make the link with this unit and 1AD.  They're in Iraq right now, distributing bullets among deserving recipients.

               

              As an aside, 2/39 Inf is still going as a basic training unit in Fort Jackson.  Check it out:

               

               

              Was 1/39 Inf already in Baumholder by the early 1970s, or still in Worms?  Someone told me but I've forgotten.

               

              AAAO

               

              Matt Ginn

               

              -----Original Message-----
              From: John Petteruti [mailto:jpetteruti@...]
              Sent: Tuesday, 18 November 2003 2:49 AM
              To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....

              Matt, when did you serve with the 39th?  I am trying to find out what happened to my old unit.  I served with the 39th from 1971 to 1973.  Where they deactivated?

               

              Bar None,

               

              John

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Ginn, Matthew [mailto:matthew.ginn@...]
              Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2003 6:07 PM
              To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....

              Rich, Jim,

              Thanks for standing up and dealing with this. 

              Screening every email should help eliminate existing spammers, but once
              you're on top of that I'd like to back up what Joe Murphy recommended --
              that is, screen members instead of emails.  If you screen each new
              member you'll probably only have to act once, but if you screen every
              message you'll be going non-stop.  That means more work for you, it may
              cause delays, and sooner or later you'll let a duff message through and
              end up being a lightning rod.

              May I also suggest that you let non-8th ID ex-service members join, so
              long as they stick to the subject and don't be pests?  I lurk at a
              number of sites that have helped me piece together places and events
              during my years touring Germany on the back of an M-113, and most of the
              people involved seem to think that's legit. 

              Later today I'll go back through my old emails and forward your message
              to some of the guys who've dropped off the net.

              AAAO

              Matt Ginn
              1/39 Inf (M) & 4/12 Inf (M)
              Baumholder FRG

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Sonneborn, R.T. [mailto:pathfinder8thid@...]
              Sent: Sunday, 16 November 2003 7:16 AM
              To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....


              As of this email  we are actively screening all incoming emails ! For
              those members who have turned off their email feature due to the trash
              from before.....please feel free to reactivate this feature so you can
              receive all the latest updates/ photos and "looking for" notices  from
              the membership. 

              comments / complaints?   please email :

                   comsec8thid@...

              The group  Seatbelt sign is now off, Please feel free to roam around the
              cabin......comsec8thid  has got your 6 ..........

              Rich / Jim




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            • Lord Wulf
              I remember when we were heading out of Mannheim to Vilseck and I was driving the armoury out there..... Anyhow, one of the ANPVS-5 goggles fell out of the back
              Message 6 of 21 , Dec 2, 2003
              • 0 Attachment
                I remember when we were heading out of Mannheim to Vilseck and I was driving the armoury out there.....
                 
                Anyhow, one of the ANPVS-5 goggles fell out of the back somehow ( we never could figure that one out ) but it hit the road and totally tore up a mercedes sportster that was behind us...... we had to all grab rifles, call back a couple of the hummers and we cordoned off the highway there while we gathered as many pieces of the damn this as we could..... we let in 1 Polizie who made sure of what we were doing....... it was a nightmare......
                 
                THEN
                 
                to make things even funner..... we hit Vilseck and naturally there was a report filed and so this LT was investigating the Deuce.... he took another ANPVS-5 and was trying to force it through the side and stuff...... he failed ... right up until a hummer was driving by..... he managed to cram the case through the side with a lot of force, it hit the ground and the hummer ran it over ....... that was a friggin nightmare......
                 
                I guess that qualifies as Military Intelligence....... he didn't bother to take the goggles out of the case so we lost not one but two pairs......
                 
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: jack cull
                Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 3:44 PM
                Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels

                Heaters ??? we had open M 5 Tracks

                Steve Myers <smyers@...> wrote:

                No we never had that experience but we did road march the whole battalion from Mainz to Vilsek (or maybe Mannheim or Hoenfels) I can’t remember which. Yeah, it was great no stopping, c-rats for chow, pissing in a jug, and if you had to crap you better hold on to it or risk getting pummeled by your crew. We actually did get to stop as some unlucky or maybe lucky Rad(depends on your point of view) should’ a zigged when he should’ a zagged, anyway he caught the car body on the end connectors and got a little chewed up. Good thing he didn’t get really caught! Polezei were not happy and the citizen was not happy Lt Col Brudvig was not happy. We stopped for a few minutes but then took off again as we were on a military mission and by God time was of the essence. I believe that we only had two breakdowns, which was miraculous, and they were towed in with the 88’s.  

                 

                -----Original Message-----
                From: John Petteruti [mailto:jpetteruti@...]
                Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 8:24 AM
                To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels

                 

                Heaters in a 113.  Let me think.  My three tracks would blast you out.  Real warm.  My troops never complained about it.  They complained because I would not let them stay in the damn things.

                 

                Anyone ever road march from Baumholder to Graf.  What an experience.  15 MPH on the Autobaun. The Rads just loved it.  One evern it tail end charlie, an M60, that was assigned to us to protect our rear from some  hapless unit that was on our way.  German Police were pissed because of the stuff left on the road.

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Ginn, Matthew [mailto:matthew.ginn@...]
                Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 6:47 PM
                To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels

                Yep, when we were in the barracks it wasn't too bad, apart from the non-stop sh!t details and other bright ideas for keeping us busy.  Still, I didn't enjoy Graf much.  For the most part we were lock-stepped through the ranges.  No initiative required, just follow the script -- or else.

                 

                Spending so much time waiting added a lot to the fun.  One night we were supposed to whip out to the range, fire, and return to the barracks.  The platoon made a tactical approach, dismounted the 50 cals, set up the 60s, all the riflemen flopped down to fire, and then we waited for range control to clear us to shoot . . . and waited . . . and waited . . . and waited. . . .   We were huddled over our weapons for hours.  Now, it had been freezing cold for weeks and there was six inches of snow on the ground, so that night everyone had gone out prepared for cold-dry weather, wearing field jackets with liners and our heavier German boots.  Almost no one brought a Baumholder jacket or other rain gear.  But while we lay there in the open from midnight to dawn, the temperature rose to just above freezing and it started to belt down rain.  Christ that was miserable, being soaked, frozen, and belly down in melting snow for hours.  And very, very pissed off.  Yes, very, very pissed off.  I remember one of the squad leaders lying there staring downrange over his rifle sights with tears pouring down his face. I imagine he was daydreaming about who he would like to kill first.

                 

                He got his revenge later on the CALTEX, though.  Jumped up with a live LAW, took careful aim, and instead of putting a rocket through the tank target he managed to hit the lift device with a magnificent square-on shot.  The box jumped three feet in the air and flew apart with pieces of steel whizzing every which way.  Before that I was never really convinced that you could hit anything with a LAW or that it would make a difference if you did.  Like grenades, the LAW always struck me as being as much danger to the guy using it as to the one on the receiving end.

                 

                Speaking about things of questionable performance, I'm surprised to hear the M113 track heaters were already crap in the early 1970s.  Were they ever any good?  Somebody tell me.  Our own heaters worked just often enough to get our hopes up;  the only reliable heater I knew of was in the Humvee ambulance.  My luckiest-ever return trip from Graf was in the back of one of those, when I got to lie down on a stretcher in a heated vehicle and sleep comfortably all the way to Baumholder -- first class.  No rail head runaround, no hundred-grunts-per-rail-carriage trip, and no freezing my ears off TCing an M113 down the autobahn for ten hours in the snow.  I couldn't have been happier on that ride if a stewardess showed up with free champagne.

                 

                Anyway, compared to Graf, Hohenfels was a treat even in the worst weather.  And on a warm, sunny day it was downright pleasant. 

                 

                -----Original Message-----
                From: James smith [mailto:ironworker20022002@...]
                Sent: Tuesday, 25 November 2003 1:13 PM
                To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....

                Damn Matthew  sounds like you had it made in Graf. We never saw the insides of buildings, we stayed in GP mediums Had those old diesel burnin stoves for heat and hot water and took a bath in our steel pots. this was a many a years ago, but I will never forget hohenfels,graf. It was so fuckin wet, muddy, and cold. Half the co. got pneumonia at one time or another. But it was still a great time over there.

                "Ginn, Matthew" <matthew.ginn@...> wrote:

                John,

                 

                We were in those same barracks in the late '80s [in fact, the soldiers are still in those barracks], but they were much improved by then.  They had some form of central heat, hot showers, electricity to the rooms and so forth.  We still had a coal-fired power generation station in the middle of the unit with a big smokestack that, rumor had it, some fool had fallen off and killed himself.  Some genius at Baumholder Milcom decided to save money one winter by not heating the barracks and there was nearly a mutiny. 

                 

                It wasn't too bad down at Graf and Hohenfels, either.  By the time I got there both posts had clean, heated open-bay buildings that you could pack into during down time.  My platoon sergeant in A-1/39 told me that in the 1970s they used to pitch tents and sleep outdoors during the winter training periods.  Glad I missed that.  We still got filthy, wet and frozen, but at least after a couple of days there was a chance to clean up and defrost a bit, even if it meant a trudge through rain and mud half a click across post.  One morning I decided to skip the cross-post trek and, instead, sneaked into some support unit's showers (located, of course, right next to my building).  Crept across the freshly cleaned floor, quietly slipped off the muddy boots, dropped the sopping, stinking BDUs in a heap, got a steamy shower running and was just ready to start the business when a pair of feet appeared next to the shower door.  I could hear my BDUs being turned over . . . imagined the crazy eight unit patch being examined . . . remembered my EIB in plain sight above the pocket . . . suddenly, an enraged female screamed "There's a ^%*&^ing earth pig in our showers!!!!" 

                 

                Lucky no one outranked me or I'd still be scrubbing that place.  As it was, I had to tell a whole year's worth of lies just to get my clothes back.

                 

                Matt

                 

                -----Original Message-----
                From: John Petteruti [mailto:jpetteruti@...]
                Sent: Wednesday, 19 November 2003 11:59 PM
                To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....

                Matt;

                 

                The 1/39 was indeed at Baumholder.  My troops even lived in barracks built for the Nazi's.  Real bummer.  Coal oil stoves, that sort of thing.

                 

                I really appreciate the history listen. 

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Ginn, Matthew [mailto:matthew.ginn@...]
                Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 5:45 PM
                To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....

                John,

                 

                I was with 1/39 Inf from early 1986 through to deactivation / redesignation in 1989.  Around the middle of '89 we were rebadged 4/12 Inf (and the neighbours, 1/13 Inf, became 3/12 Inf).  Same people, same equipment, same buildings, new name.  I believe this was just a realignment under the Combat Arms Regimental System.  Memory fails me at the moment, but I think that the 12th Infantry Regiment served with 8th ID in WWII, unlike 1/39 Inf (which was with 9th ID).

                 

                After Gulf War I, when the Government decided to cut back the number of divisions and was drawing down and realigning the forces in Germany, 8th ID was deactivated and there was a combined move / takeover by 1AD. They came across (from Wurzburg?) and moved their HQ to Bad Kreuznach. 

                 

                Later -- I think in the mid-'90s -- the two 2BDE Infantry units became 1/6 Inf and 2/6 Inf.  I suspect this was another CARS realignment, although I don't make the link with this unit and 1AD.  They're in Iraq right now, distributing bullets among deserving recipients.

                 

                As an aside, 2/39 Inf is still going as a basic training unit in Fort Jackson.  Check it out:

                 

                 

                Was 1/39 Inf already in Baumholder by the early 1970s, or still in Worms?  Someone told me but I've forgotten.

                 

                AAAO

                 

                Matt Ginn

                 

                -----Original Message-----
                From: John Petteruti [mailto:jpetteruti@...]
                Sent: Tuesday, 18 November 2003 2:49 AM
                To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....

                Matt, when did you serve with the 39th?  I am trying to find out what happened to my old unit.  I served with the 39th from 1971 to 1973.  Where they deactivated?

                 

                Bar None,

                 

                John

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Ginn, Matthew [mailto:matthew.ginn@...]
                Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2003 6:07 PM
                To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....

                Rich, Jim,

                Thanks for standing up and dealing with this. 

                Screening every email should help eliminate existing spammers, but once
                you're on top of that I'd like to back up what Joe Murphy recommended --
                that is, screen members instead of emails.  If you screen each new
                member you'll probably only have to act once, but if you screen every
                message you'll be going non-stop.  That means more work for you, it may
                cause delays, and sooner or later you'll let a duff message through and
                end up being a lightning rod.

                May I also suggest that you let non-8th ID ex-service members join, so
                long as they stick to the subject and don't be pests?  I lurk at a
                number of sites that have helped me piece together places and events
                during my years touring Germany on the back of an M-113, and most of the
                people involved seem to think that's legit. 

                Later today I'll go back through my old emails and forward your message
                to some of the guys who've dropped off the net.

                AAAO

                Matt Ginn
                1/39 Inf (M) & 4/12 Inf (M)
                Baumholder FRG

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Sonneborn, R.T. [mailto:pathfinder8thid@...]
                Sent: Sunday, 16 November 2003 7:16 AM
                To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....


                As of this email  we are actively screening all incoming emails ! For
                those members who have turned off their email feature due to the trash
                from before.....please feel free to reactivate this feature so you can
                receive all the latest updates/ photos and "looking for" notices  from
                the membership. 

                comments / complaints?   please email :

                     comsec8thid@...

                The group  Seatbelt sign is now off, Please feel free to roam around the
                cabin......comsec8thid  has got your 6 ..........

                Rich / Jim




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              • John Petteruti
                Our tracks had heaters, but no wheeled vehicle had a top, expect for the mess trucks. I asked the reason once and was told so jet fighters could not sneek up
                Message 7 of 21 , Dec 3, 2003
                • 0 Attachment
                  Our tracks had heaters, but no wheeled vehicle had a top, expect for the mess trucks.  I asked the reason once and was told so jet fighters could not sneek up on us ( this was the Battalion Commander tell me this, and he was serious).  I always thought that by the time I could hear the fighters coming, I would already be dead.  A jeep could get real cold in the winter.  Even colder with out a top. This rule applied whether in the field or at home base.
                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: jack cull [mailto:jackcull@...]
                  Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 4:44 PM
                  To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels

                  Heaters ??? we had open M 5 Tracks

                  Steve Myers <smyers@...> wrote:

                  No we never had that experience but we did road march the whole battalion from Mainz to Vilsek (or maybe Mannheim or Hoenfels) I can’t remember which. Yeah, it was great no stopping, c-rats for chow, pissing in a jug, and if you had to crap you better hold on to it or risk getting pummeled by your crew. We actually did get to stop as some unlucky or maybe lucky Rad(depends on your point of view) should’ a zigged when he should’ a zagged, anyway he caught the car body on the end connectors and got a little chewed up. Good thing he didn’t get really caught! Polezei were not happy and the citizen was not happy Lt Col Brudvig was not happy. We stopped for a few minutes but then took off again as we were on a military mission and by God time was of the essence. I believe that we only had two breakdowns, which was miraculous, and they were towed in with the 88’s.  

                   

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: John Petteruti [mailto:jpetteruti@...]
                  Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 8:24 AM
                  To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels

                   

                  Heaters in a 113.  Let me think.  My three tracks would blast you out.  Real warm.  My troops never complained about it.  They complained because I would not let them stay in the damn things.

                   

                  Anyone ever road march from Baumholder to Graf.  What an experience.  15 MPH on the Autobaun. The Rads just loved it.  One evern it tail end charlie, an M60, that was assigned to us to protect our rear from some  hapless unit that was on our way.  German Police were pissed because of the stuff left on the road.

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Ginn, Matthew [mailto:matthew.ginn@...]
                  Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 6:47 PM
                  To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels

                  Yep, when we were in the barracks it wasn't too bad, apart from the non-stop sh!t details and other bright ideas for keeping us busy.  Still, I didn't enjoy Graf much.  For the most part we were lock-stepped through the ranges.  No initiative required, just follow the script -- or else.

                   

                  Spending so much time waiting added a lot to the fun.  One night we were supposed to whip out to the range, fire, and return to the barracks.  The platoon made a tactical approach, dismounted the 50 cals, set up the 60s, all the riflemen flopped down to fire, and then we waited for range control to clear us to shoot . . . and waited . . . and waited .. . . and waited. . . .   We were huddled over our weapons for hours.  Now, it had been freezing cold for weeks and there was six inches of snow on the ground, so that night everyone had gone out prepared for cold-dry weather, wearing field jackets with liners and our heavier German boots.  Almost no one brought a Baumholder jacket or other rain gear.  But while we lay there in the open from midnight to dawn, the temperature rose to just above freezing and it started to belt down rain.  Christ that was miserable, being soaked, frozen, and belly down in melting snow for hours.  And very, very pissed off.  Yes, very, very pissed off.  I remember one of the squad leaders lying there staring downrange over his rifle sights with tears pouring down his face. I imagine he was daydreaming about who he would like to kill first.

                   

                  He got his revenge later on the CALTEX, though.  Jumped up with a live LAW, took careful aim, and instead of putting a rocket through the tank target he managed to hit the lift device with a magnificent square-on shot.  The box jumped three feet in the air and flew apart with pieces of steel whizzing every which way.  Before that I was never really convinced that you could hit anything with a LAW or that it would make a difference if you did.  Like grenades, the LAW always struck me as being as much danger to the guy using it as to the one on the receiving end.

                   

                  Speaking about things of questionable performance, I'm surprised to hear the M113 track heaters were already crap in the early 1970s.  Were they ever any good?  Somebody tell me.  Our own heaters worked just often enough to get our hopes up;  the only reliable heater I knew of was in the Humvee ambulance.  My luckiest-ever return trip from Graf was in the back of one of those, when I got to lie down on a stretcher in a heated vehicle and sleep comfortably all the way to Baumholder -- first class.  No rail head runaround, no hundred-grunts-per-rail-carriage trip, and no freezing my ears off TCing an M113 down the autobahn for ten hours in the snow.  I couldn't have been happier on that ride if a stewardess showed up with free champagne.

                   

                  Anyway, compared to Graf, Hohenfels was a treat even in the worst weather.  And on a warm, sunny day it was downright pleasant. 

                   

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: James smith [mailto:ironworker20022002@...]
                  Sent: Tuesday, 25 November 2003 1:13 PM
                  To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....

                  Damn Matthew  sounds like you had it made in Graf. We never saw the insides of buildings, we stayed in GP mediums Had those old diesel burnin stoves for heat and hot water and took a bath in our steel pots. this was a many a years ago, but I will never forget hohenfels,graf. It was so fuckin wet, muddy, and cold. Half the co. got pneumonia at one time or another. But it was still a great time over there.

                  "Ginn, Matthew" <matthew.ginn@...> wrote:

                  John,

                   

                  We were in those same barracks in the late '80s [in fact, the soldiers are still in those barracks], but they were much improved by then.  They had some form of central heat, hot showers, electricity to the rooms and so forth.  We still had a coal-fired power generation station in the middle of the unit with a big smokestack that, rumor had it, some fool had fallen off and killed himself.  Some genius at Baumholder Milcom decided to save money one winter by not heating the barracks and there was nearly a mutiny. 

                   

                  It wasn't too bad down at Graf and Hohenfels, either.  By the time I got there both posts had clean, heated open-bay buildings that you could pack into during down time.  My platoon sergeant in A-1/39 told me that in the 1970s they used to pitch tents and sleep outdoors during the winter training periods.  Glad I missed that.  We still got filthy, wet and frozen, but at least after a couple of days there was a chance to clean up and defrost a bit, even if it meant a trudge through rain and mud half a click across post.  One morning I decided to skip the cross-post trek and, instead, sneaked into some support unit's showers (located, of course, right next to my building).  Crept across the freshly cleaned floor, quietly slipped off the muddy boots, dropped the sopping, stinking BDUs in a heap, got a steamy shower running and was just ready to start the business when a pair of feet appeared next to the shower door.  I could hear my BDUs being turned over . . . imagined the crazy eight unit patch being examined . . . remembered my EIB in plain sight above the pocket . . . suddenly, an enraged female screamed "There's a ^%*&^ing earth pig in our showers!!!!" 

                   

                  Lucky no one outranked me or I'd still be scrubbing that place.  As it was, I had to tell a whole year's worth of lies just to get my clothes back.

                   

                  Matt

                   

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: John Petteruti [mailto:jpetteruti@...]
                  Sent: Wednesday, 19 November 2003 11:59 PM
                  To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....

                  Matt;

                   

                  The 1/39 was indeed at Baumholder.  My troops even lived in barracks built for the Nazi's.  Real bummer.  Coal oil stoves, that sort of thing.

                   

                  I really appreciate the history listen. 

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Ginn, Matthew [mailto:matthew.ginn@...]
                  Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 5:45 PM
                  To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....

                  John,

                   

                  I was with 1/39 Inf from early 1986 through to deactivation / redesignation in 1989.  Around the middle of '89 we were rebadged 4/12 Inf (and the neighbours, 1/13 Inf, became 3/12 Inf).  Same people, same equipment, same buildings, new name.  I believe this was just a realignment under the Combat Arms Regimental System.  Memory fails me at the moment, but I think that the 12th Infantry Regiment served with 8th ID in WWII, unlike 1/39 Inf (which was with 9th ID).

                   

                  After Gulf War I, when the Government decided to cut back the number of divisions and was drawing down and realigning the forces in Germany, 8th ID was deactivated and there was a combined move / takeover by 1AD. They came across (from Wurzburg?) and moved their HQ to Bad Kreuznach. 

                   

                  Later -- I think in the mid-'90s -- the two 2BDE Infantry units became 1/6 Inf and 2/6 Inf.  I suspect this was another CARS realignment, although I don't make the link with this unit and 1AD.  They're in Iraq right now, distributing bullets among deserving recipients.

                   

                  As an aside, 2/39 Inf is still going as a basic training unit in Fort Jackson.  Check it out:

                   

                   

                  Was 1/39 Inf already in Baumholder by the early 1970s, or still in Worms?  Someone told me but I've forgotten.

                   

                  AAAO

                   

                  Matt Ginn

                   

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: John Petteruti [mailto:jpetteruti@...]
                  Sent: Tuesday, 18 November 2003 2:49 AM
                  To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....

                  Matt, when did you serve with the 39th?  I am trying to find out what happened to my old unit.  I served with the 39th from 1971 to 1973.  Where they deactivated?

                   

                  Bar None,

                   

                  John

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Ginn, Matthew [mailto:matthew.ginn@...]
                  Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2003 6:07 PM
                  To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....

                  Rich, Jim,

                  Thanks for standing up and dealing with this. 

                  Screening every email should help eliminate existing spammers, but once
                  you're on top of that I'd like to back up what Joe Murphy recommended --
                  that is, screen members instead of emails.  If you screen each new
                  member you'll probably only have to act once, but if you screen every
                  message you'll be going non-stop.  That means more work for you, it may
                  cause delays, and sooner or later you'll let a duff message through and
                  end up being a lightning rod.

                  May I also suggest that you let non-8th ID ex-service members join, so
                  long as they stick to the subject and don't be pests?  I lurk at a
                  number of sites that have helped me piece together places and events
                  during my years touring Germany on the back of an M-113, and most of the
                  people involved seem to think that's legit. 

                  Later today I'll go back through my old emails and forward your message
                  to some of the guys who've dropped off the net.

                  AAAO

                  Matt Ginn
                  1/39 Inf (M) & 4/12 Inf (M)
                  Baumholder FRG

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Sonneborn, R.T. [mailto:pathfinder8thid@...]
                  Sent: Sunday, 16 November 2003 7:16 AM
                  To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....


                  As of this email  we are actively screening all incoming emails ! For
                  those members who have turned off their email feature due to the trash
                  from before.....please feel free to reactivate this feature so you can
                  receive all the latest updates/ photos and "looking for" notices  from
                  the membership. 

                  comments / complaints?   please email :

                       comsec8thid@...

                  The group  Seatbelt sign is now off, Please feel free to roam around the
                  cabin......comsec8thid  has got your 6 ..........

                  Rich / Jim




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                  The Commonwealth does not warrant that any attachments are free from viruses or any other defects. You assume all liability for any loss, damage or other consequences which may arise from opening or using the attachments.
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                  The Commonwealth does not warrant that any attachments are free from viruses or any other defects. You assume all liability for any loss, damage or other consequences which may arise from opening or using the attachments.
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                • poin14@aol.com
                  I remember on one of those excercises while sitting stationary on a ridge line in an M60AI with the engine off I saw an Air Force jeep with about 7 antennas on
                  Message 8 of 21 , Dec 3, 2003
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                        I remember on one of those excercises while sitting stationary on a ridge line in an M60AI with the engine off I saw an Air Force jeep with about 7 antennas on it watching me from down the road. A few minutes later, out of the corner of my eye, I saw something rocketing towards us and before I could gather a thought on what it may be it was about 50 feet above me then shot straight up with flames coming out of the back. When I could gather a thought I realized it was an F4 Phantom that had strafed me then turned its afterburners on to get away. I didn't hear it coming until it got there and it was so close the air wash sucked away the loose helmet liners, c-ration cartons, and any other loose junk that was laying around and was last seen rolling down the road. The fixed mounted .50 cal would have been as useful as a doorstop even if I would have known it was coming.
                    Also, there was a rumor that a certain crew who couldn't get their heater fixed in Baumholder stuffed a rag in the turbocharger so the tank couldn't turn or go over 3mph to go on a freezing rain in the mud road march. That kind of problem was over the head of battallion maint. so a whole new powerplant had to be sent which kept them in the motor pool for a while.
                  • mr viz
                    Our 113s had a heater in the back that got too hot for the guy next to it, but we also rode open with a Dust Dummy spotting for aircraft. Most guys attempted
                    Message 9 of 21 , Dec 3, 2003
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                      Our 113s had a heater in the back that got too hot for
                      the guy next to it, but we also rode open with a "Dust
                      Dummy" spotting for aircraft. Most guys attempted to
                      get into a comfortable position then caccooned
                      themselves with blankets and sleeping bags. Hating
                      small spaces,I loved riding DD and always volunteered.
                      Thank God for the Parka and that fur-trimmed hood.
                      Once I was told that our track was destroyed by an
                      enemy helicopter. I told the referee that I didn't
                      know that the enemy was using our hardware as I had
                      seen it coming from a distance and didn't fire my M-60
                      MG at it. From that point on, I fired on EVERYTHING. I
                      tried to shoot down the Battalion CO at least 5 times.
                      Conner
                      CoA 2/509th ABN/MECH Inf

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                    • jack cull
                      None of our vehicles had heaters and the canvas for trucks was in short supply and non existant for our primeovers, M5 tracks. When parked they were covered
                      Message 10 of 21 , Dec 4, 2003
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                        None of our vehicles had heaters and the canvas for trucks was in short supply and non existant for our primeovers, M5 tracks.  When parked they were covered with a canvas sheet to keep the ammo dry.   You rode exposed to the rain, snow and dust of Graf and Vilseck

                        John Petteruti <jpetteruti@...> wrote:
                        Our tracks had heaters, but no wheeled vehicle had a top, expect for the mess trucks.  I asked the reason once and was told so jet fighters could not sneek up on us ( this was the Battalion Commander tell me this, and he was serious).  I always thought that by the time I could hear the fighters coming, I would already be dead.  A jeep could get real cold in the winter.  Even colder with out a top. This rule applied whether in the field or at home base.
                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: jack cull [mailto:jackcull@...]
                        Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 4:44 PM
                        To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels

                        Heaters ??? we had open M 5 Tracks

                        Steve Myers <smyers@...> wrote:

                        No we never had that experience but we did road march the whole battalion from Mainz to Vilsek (or maybe Mannheim or Hoenfels) I can�t remember which. Yeah, it was great no stopping, c-rats for chow, pissing in a jug, and if you had to crap you better hold on to it or risk getting pummeled by your crew. We actually did get to stop as some unlucky or maybe lucky Rad(depends on your point of view) should� a zigged when he should� a zagged, anyway he caught the car body on the end connectors and got a little chewed up. Good thing he didn�t get really caught! Polezei were not happy and the citizen was not happy Lt Col Brudvig was not happy. We stopped for a few minutes but then took off again as we were on a military mission and by God time was of the essence. I believe that we only had two breakdowns, which was miraculous, and they were towed in with the 88�s.  

                         

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: John Petteruti [mailto:jpetteruti@...]
                        Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 8:24 AM
                        To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels

                         

                        Heaters in a 113.  Let me think.  My three tracks would blast you out.  Real warm.  My troops never complained about it.  They complained because I would not let them stay in the damn things.

                         

                        Anyone ever road march from Baumholder to Graf.  What an experience.  15 MPH on the Autobaun. The Rads just loved it.  One evern it tail end charlie, an M60, that was assigned to us to protect our rear from some  hapless unit that was on our way.  German Police were pissed because of the stuff left on the road.

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Ginn, Matthew [mailto:matthew.ginn@...]
                        Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 6:47 PM
                        To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels

                        Yep, when we were in the barracks it wasn't too bad, apart from the non-stop sh!t details and other bright ideas for keeping us busy.  Still, I didn't enjoy Graf much.  For the most part we were lock-stepped through the ranges.  No initiative required, just follow the script -- or else.

                         

                        Spending so much time waiting added a lot to the fun.  One night we were supposed to whip out to the range, fire, and return to the barracks.  The platoon made a tactical approach, dismounted the 50 cals, set up the 60s, all the riflemen flopped down to fire, and then we waited for range control to clear us to shoot . . . and waited . . . and waited .. . . and waited. . . .   We were huddled over our weapons for hours.  Now, it had been freezing cold for weeks and there was six inches of snow on the ground, so that night everyone had gone out prepared for cold-dry weather, wearing field jackets with liners and our heavier German boots.  Almost no one brought a Baumholder jacket or other rain gear.  But while we lay there in the open from midnight to dawn, the temperature rose to just above freezing and it started to belt down rain.  Christ that was miserable, being soaked, frozen, and belly down in melting snow for hours.  And very, very pissed off.  Yes, very, very pissed off.  I remember one of the squad leaders lying there staring downrange over his rifle sights with tears pouring down his face. I imagine he was daydreaming about who he would like to kill first.

                         

                        He got his revenge later on the CALTEX, though.  Jumped up with a live LAW, took careful aim, and instead of putting a rocket through the tank target he managed to hit the lift device with a magnificent square-on shot.  The box jumped three feet in the air and flew apart with pieces of steel whizzing every which way.  Before that I was never really convinced that you could hit anything with a LAW or that it would make a difference if you did.  Like grenades, the LAW always struck me as being as much danger to the guy using it as to the one on the receiving end.

                         

                        Speaking about things of questionable performance, I'm surprised to hear the M113 track heaters were already crap in the early 1970s.  Were they ever any good?  Somebody tell me.  Our own heaters worked just often enough to get our hopes up;  the only reliable heater I knew of was in the Humvee ambulance.  My luckiest-ever return trip from Graf was in the back of one of those, when I got to lie down on a stretcher in a heated vehicle and sleep comfortably all the way to Baumholder -- first class.  No rail head runaround, no hundred-grunts-per-rail-carriage trip, and no freezing my ears off TCing an M113 down the autobahn for ten hours in the snow.  I couldn't have been happier on that ride if a stewardess showed up with free champagne.

                         

                        Anyway, compared to Graf, Hohenfels was a treat even in the worst weather.  And on a warm, sunny day it was downright pleasant. 

                         

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: James smith [mailto:ironworker20022002@...]
                        Sent: Tuesday, 25 November 2003 1:13 PM
                        To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....

                        Damn Matthew  sounds like you had it made in Graf. We never saw the insides of buildings, we stayed in GP mediums Had those old diesel burnin stoves for heat and hot water and took a bath in our steel pots. this was a many a years ago, but I will never forget hohenfels,graf. It was so fuckin wet, muddy, and cold. Half the co. got pneumonia at one time or another. But it was still a great time over there.

                        "Ginn, Matthew" <matthew.ginn@...> wrote:

                        John,

                         

                        We were in those same barracks in the late '80s [in fact, the soldiers are still in those barracks], but they were much improved by then.  They had some form of central heat, hot showers, electricity to the rooms and so forth.  We still had a coal-fired power generation station in the middle of the unit with a big smokestack that, rumor had it, some fool had fallen off and killed himself.  Some genius at Baumholder Milcom decided to save money one winter by not heating the barracks and there was nearly a mutiny. 

                         

                        It wasn't too bad down at Graf and Hohenfels, either.  By the time I got there both posts had clean, heated open-bay buildings that you could pack into during down time.  My platoon sergeant in A-1/39 told me that in the 1970s they used to pitch tents and sleep outdoors during the winter training periods.  Glad I missed that.  We still got filthy, wet and frozen, but at least after a couple of days there was a chance to clean up and defrost a bit, even if it meant a trudge through rain and mud half a click across post.  One morning I decided to skip the cross-post trek and, instead, sneaked into some support unit's showers (located, of course, right next to my building).  Crept across the freshly cleaned floor, quietly slipped off the muddy boots, dropped the sopping, stinking BDUs in a heap, got a steamy shower running and was just ready to start the business when a pair of feet appeared next to the shower door.  I could hear my BDUs being turned over . . . imagined the crazy eight unit patch being examined . . . remembered my EIB in plain sight above the pocket . . . suddenly, an enraged female screamed "There's a ^%*&^ing earth pig in our showers!!!!" 

                         

                        Lucky no one outranked me or I'd still be scrubbing that place.  As it was, I had to tell a whole year's worth of lies just to get my clothes back.

                         

                        Matt

                         

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: John Petteruti [mailto:jpetteruti@...]
                        Sent: Wednesday, 19 November 2003 11:59 PM
                        To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....

                        Matt;

                         

                        The 1/39 was indeed at Baumholder.  My troops even lived in barracks built for the Nazi's.  Real bummer.  Coal oil stoves, that sort of thing.

                         

                        I really appreciate the history listen. 

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Ginn, Matthew [mailto:matthew.ginn@...]
                        Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 5:45 PM
                        To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....

                        John,

                         

                        I was with 1/39 Inf from early 1986 through to deactivation / redesignation in 1989.  Around the middle of '89 we were rebadged 4/12 Inf (and the neighbours, 1/13 Inf, became 3/12 Inf).  Same people, same equipment, same buildings, new name.  I believe this was just a realignment under the Combat Arms Regimental System.  Memory fails me at the moment, but I think that the 12th Infantry Regiment served with 8th ID in WWII, unlike 1/39 Inf (which was with 9th ID).

                         

                        After Gulf War I, when the Government decided to cut back the number of divisions and was drawing down and realigning the forces in Germany, 8th ID was deactivated and there was a combined move / takeover by 1AD. They came across (from Wurzburg?) and moved their HQ to Bad Kreuznach. 

                         

                        Later -- I think in the mid-'90s -- the two 2BDE Infantry units became 1/6 Inf and 2/6 Inf.  I suspect this was another CARS realignment, although I don't make the link with this unit and 1AD.  They're in Iraq right now, distributing bullets among deserving recipients.

                         

                        As an aside, 2/39 Inf is still going as a basic training unit in Fort Jackson.  Check it out:

                         

                         

                        Was 1/39 Inf already in Baumholder by the early 1970s, or still in Worms?  Someone told me but I've forgotten.

                         

                        AAAO

                         

                        Matt Ginn

                         

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: John Petteruti [mailto:jpetteruti@...]
                        Sent: Tuesday, 18 November 2003 2:49 AM
                        To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....

                        Matt, when did you serve with the 39th?  I am trying to find out what happened to my old unit.  I served with the 39th from 1971 to 1973.  Where they deactivated?

                         

                        Bar None,

                         

                        John

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Ginn, Matthew [mailto:matthew.ginn@...]
                        Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2003 6:07 PM
                        To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....

                        Rich, Jim,

                        Thanks for standing up and dealing with this. 

                        Screening every email should help eliminate existing spammers, but once
                        you're on top of that I'd like to back up what Joe Murphy recommended --
                        that is, screen members instead of emails.  If you screen each new
                        member you'll probably only have to act once, but if you screen every
                        message you'll be going non-stop.  That means more work for you, it may
                        cause delays, and sooner or later you'll let a duff message through and
                        end up being a lightning rod.

                        May I also suggest that you let non-8th ID ex-service members join, so
                        long as they stick to the subject and don't be pests?  I lurk at a
                        number of sites that have helped me piece together places and events
                        during my years touring Germany on the back of an M-113, and most of the
                        people involved seem to think that's legit. 

                        Later today I'll go back through my old emails and forward your message
                        to some of the guys who've dropped off the net.

                        AAAO

                        Matt Ginn
                        1/39 Inf (M) & 4/12 Inf (M)
                        Baumholder FRG

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Sonneborn, R.T. [mailto:pathfinder8thid@...]
                        Sent: Sunday, 16 November 2003 7:16 AM
                        To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready to serve....


                        As of this email  we are actively screening all incoming emails ! For
                        those members who have turned off their email feature due to the trash
                        from before.....please feel free to reactivate this feature so you can
                        receive all the latest updates/ photos and "looking for" notices  from
                        the membership. 

                        comments / complaints?   please email :

                             comsec8thid@...

                        The group  Seatbelt sign is now off, Please feel free to roam around the
                        cabin......comsec8thid  has got your 6 ..........

                        Rich / Jim




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                      • B A
                        graf is a four letter place nice to be there for training ... {behavior:url(#default#VML);}st1 :*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) ... === message truncated ===
                        Message 11 of 21 , Dec 4, 2003
                        • 0 Attachment
                          graf is a four letter place nice to be there for
                          training
                          --- jack cull <jackcull@...> wrote:
                          > Heaters ??? we had open M 5 Tracks
                          >
                          > Steve Myers <smyers@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}o\:*
                          > {behavior:url(#default#VML);}w\:*
                          > {behavior:url(#default#VML);}.shape
                          >
                          {behavior:url(#default#VML);}st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui)
                          > }
                          > No we never had that experience but we did road
                          > march the whole battalion from Mainz to Vilsek (or
                          > maybe Mannheim or Hoenfels) I can�t remember which.
                          > Yeah, it was great no stopping, c-rats for chow,
                          > pissing in a jug, and if you had to crap you better
                          > hold on to it or risk getting pummeled by your crew.
                          > We actually did get to stop as some unlucky or maybe
                          > lucky Rad(depends on your point of view) should� a
                          > zigged when he should� a zagged, anyway he caught
                          > the car body on the end connectors and got a little
                          > chewed up. Good thing he didn�t get really caught!
                          > Polezei were not happy and the citizen was not happy
                          > Lt Col Brudvig was not happy. We stopped for a few
                          > minutes but then took off again as we were on a
                          > military mission and by God time was of the essence.
                          > I believe that we only had two breakdowns, which was
                          > miraculous, and they were towed in with the 88�s.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: John Petteruti
                          > [mailto:jpetteruti@...]
                          > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 8:24 AM
                          > To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Heaters in a 113. Let me think. My three tracks
                          > would blast you out. Real warm. My troops never
                          > complained about it. They complained because I
                          > would not let them stay in the damn things.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Anyone ever road march from Baumholder to Graf.
                          > What an experience. 15 MPH on the Autobaun. The
                          > Rads just loved it. One evern it tail end charlie,
                          > an M60, that was assigned to us to protect our rear
                          > from some hapless unit that was on our way. German
                          > Police were pissed because of the stuff left on the
                          > road.
                          >
                          >
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: Ginn, Matthew
                          > [mailto:matthew.ginn@...]
                          > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 6:47 PM
                          > To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels
                          >
                          > Yep, when we were in the barracks it wasn't too bad,
                          > apart from the non-stop sh!t details and other
                          > bright ideas for keeping us busy. Still, I didn't
                          > enjoy Graf much. For the most part we were
                          > lock-stepped through the ranges. No initiative
                          > required, just follow the script -- or else.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Spending so much time waiting added a lot to the
                          > fun. One night we were supposed to whip out to the
                          > range, fire, and return to the barracks. The
                          > platoon made a tactical approach, dismounted the 50
                          > cals, set up the 60s, all the riflemen flopped down
                          > to fire, and then we waited for range control to
                          > clear us to shoot . . . and waited . . . and waited
                          > . . . and waited. . . . We were huddled over our
                          > weapons for hours. Now, it had been freezing cold
                          > for weeks and there was six inches of snow on the
                          > ground, so that night everyone had gone out prepared
                          > for cold-dry weather, wearing field jackets with
                          > liners and our heavier German boots. Almost no one
                          > brought a Baumholder jacket or other rain gear. But
                          > while we lay there in the open from midnight to
                          > dawn, the temperature rose to just above freezing
                          > and it started to belt down rain. Christ that was
                          > miserable, being soaked, frozen, and belly down in
                          > melting snow for hours. And very, very pissed off.
                          > Yes, very, very pissed off. I
                          > remember one of the squad leaders lying there
                          > staring downrange over his rifle sights with tears
                          > pouring down his face. I imagine he was daydreaming
                          > about who he would like to kill first.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > He got his revenge later on the CALTEX, though.
                          > Jumped up with a live LAW, took careful aim, and
                          > instead of putting a rocket through the tank target
                          > he managed to hit the lift device with a magnificent
                          > square-on shot. The box jumped three feet in the
                          > air and flew apart with pieces of steel whizzing
                          > every which way. Before that I was never really
                          > convinced that you could hit anything with a LAW or
                          > that it would make a difference if you did. Like
                          > grenades, the LAW always struck me as being as much
                          > danger to the guy using it as to the one on the
                          > receiving end.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Speaking about things of questionable performance,
                          > I'm surprised to hear the M113 track heaters were
                          > already crap in the early 1970s. Were they ever any
                          > good? Somebody tell me. Our own heaters worked
                          > just often enough to get our hopes up; the only
                          > reliable heater I knew of was in the Humvee
                          > ambulance. My luckiest-ever return trip from Graf
                          > was in the back of one of those, when I got to lie
                          > down on a stretcher in a heated vehicle and sleep
                          > comfortably all the way to Baumholder -- first
                          > class. No rail head runaround, no
                          > hundred-grunts-per-rail-carriage trip, and no
                          > freezing my ears off TCing an M113 down the autobahn
                          > for ten hours in the snow. I couldn't have been
                          > happier on that ride if a stewardess showed up with
                          > free champagne.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Anyway, compared to Graf, Hohenfels was a treat even
                          > in the worst weather. And on a warm, sunny day it
                          > was downright pleasant.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: James smith
                          > [mailto:ironworker20022002@...]
                          > Sent: Tuesday, 25 November 2003 1:13 PM
                          > To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready
                          > to serve....
                          >
                          > Damn Matthew sounds like you had it made in Graf.
                          > We never saw the insides of buildings, we stayed in
                          > GP mediums Had those old diesel burnin stoves for
                          > heat and hot water and took a bath in our steel
                          > pots. this was a many a years ago, but I will never
                          > forget hohenfels,graf. It was so fuckin wet, muddy,
                          > and cold. Half the co. got pneumonia at one time or
                          > another. But it was still a great time over there.
                          >
                          > "Ginn, Matthew"
                          > <matthew.ginn@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > John,
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > We were in those same barracks in the late '80s [in
                          > fact, the soldiers are still in those barracks], but
                          > they were much improved by then. They had some form
                          > of central heat, hot showers, electricity to the
                          > rooms and so forth. We still had a coal-fired power
                          > generation station in the middle of the unit with a
                          > big smokestack that, rumor had it, some fool had
                          > fallen off and killed himself. Some genius at
                          > Baumholder Milcom decided to save money one winter
                          > by not heating the barracks and there was nearly a
                          > mutiny.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > It wasn't too bad down at Graf and Hohenfels,
                          > either. By the time I got there both posts had
                          > clean, heated open-bay buildings that you could pack
                          > into during down time. My platoon sergeant in
                          > A-1/39 told me that in the 1970s they used to pitch
                          > tents and sleep outdoors during the winter training
                          > periods. Glad I missed that. We still got filthy,
                          > wet and frozen, but at least after a couple of days
                          > there was a chance to clean up and defrost a bit,
                          > even if it meant a trudge through rain and mud half
                          > a
                          === message truncated ===


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                        • Jerry Walker
                          Beautiful Baumholder Glorious Graf Heavenly Hohenfels Vivacious Vilseck Did I leave any out? B A wrote: graf is a four letter place nice to
                          Message 12 of 21 , Dec 5, 2003
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Beautiful Baumholder
                            Glorious Graf
                            Heavenly Hohenfels
                            Vivacious Vilseck
                             
                            Did I leave any out?

                            B A <badv33@...> wrote:
                            graf is a four letter place nice to be there for
                            training
                            --- jack cull wrote:
                            > Heaters ??? we had open M 5 Tracks
                            >
                            > Steve Myers wrote:
                            >
                            > v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}o\:*
                            > {behavior:url(#default#VML);}w\:*
                            > {behavior:url(#default#VML);}.shape
                            >
                            {behavior:url(#default#VML);}st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui)
                            > }
                            > No we never had that experience but we did road
                            > march the whole battalion from Mainz to Vilsek (or
                            > maybe Mannheim or Hoenfels) I can�t remember which.
                            > Yeah, it was great no stopping, c-rats for chow,
                            > pissing in a jug, and if you had to crap you better
                            > hold on to it or risk getting pummeled by your crew.
                            > We actually did get to stop as some unlucky or maybe
                            > lucky Rad(depends on your point of view) should� a
                            > zigged when he should� a zagged, anyway he caught
                            > the car body on the end connectors and got a little
                            > chewed up. Good thing he didn�t get really caught!
                            > Polezei were not happy and the citizen was not happy
                            > Lt Col Brudvig was not happy. We stopped for a few
                            > minutes but then took off again as we were on a
                            > military mission and by God time was of the essence.
                            > I believe that we only had two breakdowns, which was
                            > miraculous, and they were towed in with the 88�s.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: John Petteruti
                            > [mailto:jpetteruti@...]
                            > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 8:24 AM
                            > To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Heaters in a 113. Let me think. My three tracks
                            > would blast you out. Real warm. My troops never
                            > complained about it. They complained because I
                            > would not let them stay in the damn things.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Anyone ever road march from Baumholder to Graf.
                            > What an experience. 15 MPH on the Autobaun. The
                            > Rads just loved it. One evern it tail end charlie,
                            > an M60, that was assigned to us to protect our rear
                            > from some hapless unit that was on our way. German
                            > Police were pissed because of the stuff left on the
                            > road.
                            >
                            >
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: Ginn, Matthew
                            > [mailto:matthew.ginn@...]
                            > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 6:47 PM
                            > To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels
                            >
                            > Yep, when we were in the barracks it wasn't too bad,
                            > apart from the non-stop sh!t details and other
                            > bright ideas for keeping us busy. Still, I didn't
                            > enjoy Graf much. For the most part we were
                            > lock-stepped through the ranges. No initiative
                            > required, just follow the script -- or else.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Spending so much time waiting added a lot to the
                            > fun. One night we were supposed to whip out to the
                            > range, fire, and return to the barracks. The
                            > platoon made a tactical approach, dismounted the 50
                            > cals, set up the 60s, all the riflemen flopped down
                            > to fire, and then we waited for range control to
                            > clear us to shoot . . . and waited . . . and waited
                            > . . . and waited. . . . We were huddled over our
                            > weapons for hours. Now, it had been freezing cold
                            > for weeks and there was six inches of snow on the
                            > ground, so that night everyone had gone out prepared
                            > for cold-dry weather, wearing field jackets with
                            > liners and our heavier German boots. Almost no one
                            > brought a Baumholder jacket or other rain gear. But
                            > while we lay there in the open from midnight to
                            > dawn, the temperature rose to just above freezing
                            > and it started to belt down rain. Christ that was
                            > miserable, being soaked, frozen, and belly down in
                            > melting snow for hours. And very, very pissed off.
                            > Yes, very, very pissed off. I
                            > remember one of the squad leaders lying there
                            > staring downrange over his rifle sights with tears
                            > pouring down his face. I imagine he was daydreaming
                            > about who he would like to kill first.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > He got his revenge later on the CALTEX, though.
                            > Jumped up with a live LAW, took careful aim, and
                            > instead of putting a rocket through the tank target
                            > he managed to hit the lift device with a magnificent
                            > square-on shot. The box jumped three feet in the
                            > air and flew apart with pieces of steel whizzing
                            > every which way. Before that I was never really
                            > convinced that you could hit anything with a LAW or
                            > that it would make a difference if you did. Like
                            > grenades, the LAW always struck me as being as much
                            > danger to the guy using it as to the one on the
                            > receiving end.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Speaking about things of questionable performance,
                            > I'm surprised to hear the M113 track heaters were
                            > already crap in the early 1970s. Were they ever any
                            > good? Somebody tell me. Our own heaters worked
                            > just often enough to get our hopes up; the only
                            > reliable heater I knew of was in the Humvee
                            > ambulance. My luckiest-ever return trip from Graf
                            > was in the back of one of those, when I got to lie
                            > down on a stretcher in a heated vehicle and sleep
                            > comfortably all the way to Baumholder -- first
                            > class. No rail head runaround, no
                            > hundred-grunts-per-rail-carriage trip, and no
                            > freezing my ears off TCing an M113 down the autobahn
                            > for ten hours in the snow. I couldn't have been
                            > happier on that ride if a stewardess showed up with
                            > free champagne.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Anyway, compared to Graf, Hohenfels was a treat even
                            > in the worst weather. And on a warm, sunny day it
                            > was downright pleasant.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: James smith
                            > [mailto:ironworker20022002@...]
                            > Sent: Tuesday, 25 November 2003 1:13 PM
                            > To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready
                            > to serve....
                            >
                            > Damn Matthew sounds like you had it made in Graf.
                            > We never saw the insides of buildings, we stayed in
                            > GP mediums Had those old diesel burnin stoves for
                            > heat and hot water and took a bath in our steel
                            > pots. this was a many a years ago, but I will never
                            > forget hohenfels,graf. It was so fuckin wet, muddy,
                            > and cold. Half the co. got pneumonia at one time or
                            > another. But it was still a great time over there.
                            >
                            > "Ginn, Matthew"
                            > wrote:
                            >
                            > John,
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > We were in those same barracks in the late '80s [in
                            > fact, the soldiers are still in those barracks], but
                            > they were much improved by then. They had some form
                            > of central heat, hot showers, electricity to the
                            > rooms and so forth. We still had a coal-fired power
                            > generation station in the middle of the unit with a
                            > big smokestack that, rumor had it, some fool had
                            > fallen off and killed himself. Some genius at
                            > Baumholder Milcom decided to save money one winter
                            > by not heating the barracks and there was nearly a
                            > mutiny.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > It wasn't too bad down at Graf and Hohenfels,
                            > either. By the time I got there both posts had
                            > clean, heated open-bay buildings that you could pack
                            > into during down time. My platoon sergeant in
                            > A-1/39 told me that in the 1970s they used to pitch
                            > tents and sleep outdoors during the winter training
                            > periods. Glad I missed that. We still got filthy,
                            > wet and frozen, but at least after a couple of days
                            > there was a chance to clean up and defrost a bit,
                            > even if it meant a trudge through rain and mud half
                            > a
                            === message truncated ===


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                          • John Petteruti
                            Wildflicken? ... From: Jerry Walker [mailto:wilcalak@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 4:15 PM To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE:
                            Message 13 of 21 , Dec 8, 2003
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Wildflicken?
                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Jerry Walker [mailto:wilcalak@...]
                              Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 4:15 PM
                              To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels

                              Beautiful Baumholder
                              Glorious Graf
                              Heavenly Hohenfels
                              Vivacious Vilseck
                               
                              Did I leave any out?

                              B A <badv33@...> wrote:
                              graf is a four letter place nice to be there for
                              training
                              --- jack cull wrote:
                              > Heaters ??? we had open M 5 Tracks
                              >
                              > Steve Myers wrote:
                              >
                              > v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}o\:*
                              > {behavior:url(#default#VML);}w\:*
                              > {behavior:url(#default#VML);}.shape
                              >
                              {behavior:url(#default#VML);}st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui)
                              > }
                              > No we never had that experience but we did road
                              > march the whole battalion from Mainz to Vilsek (or
                              > maybe Mannheim or Hoenfels) I can’t remember which.
                              > Yeah, it was great no stopping, c-rats for chow,
                              > pissing in a jug, and if you had to crap you better
                              > hold on to it or risk getting pummeled by your crew.
                              > We actually did get to stop as some unlucky or maybe
                              > lucky Rad(depends on your point of view) should’ a
                              > zigged when he should’ a zagged, anyway he caught
                              > the car body on the end connectors and got a little
                              > chewed up. Good thing he didn’t get really caught!
                              > Polezei were not happy and the citizen was not happy
                              > Lt Col Brudvig was not happy. We stopped for a few
                              > minutes but then took off again as we were on a
                              > military mission and by God time was of the essence.
                              > I believe that we only had two breakdowns, which was
                              > miraculous, and they were towed in with the 88’s.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > -----Original Message-----
                              > From: John Petteruti
                              > [mailto:jpetteruti@...]
                              > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 8:24 AM
                              > To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                              > Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Heaters in a 113. Let me think. My three tracks
                              > would blast you out. Real warm. My troops never
                              > complained about it. They complained because I
                              > would not let them stay in the damn things.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Anyone ever road march from Baumholder to Graf.
                              > What an experience. 15 MPH on the Autobaun. The
                              > Rads just loved it. One evern it tail end charlie,
                              > an M60, that was assigned to us to protect our rear
                              > from some hapless unit that was on our way. German
                              > Police were pissed because of the stuff left on the
                              > road.
                              >
                              >
                              > -----Original Message-----
                              > From: Ginn, Matthew
                              > [mailto:matthew.ginn@...]
                              > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 6:47 PM
                              > To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                              > Subject: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels
                              >
                              > Yep, when we were in the barracks it wasn't too bad,
                              > apart from the non-stop sh!t details and other
                              > bright ideas for keeping us busy. Still, I didn't
                              > enjoy Graf much. For the most part we were
                              > lock-stepped through the ranges. No initiative
                              > required, just follow the script -- or else.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Spending so much time waiting added a lot to the
                              > fun. One night we were supposed to whip out to the
                              > range, fire, and return to the barracks. The
                              > platoon made a tactical approach, dismounted the 50
                              > cals, set up the 60s, all the riflemen flopped down
                              > to fire, and then we waited for range control to
                              > clear us to shoot . . . and waited . . . and waited
                              > . . . and waited. . . . We were huddled over our
                              > weapons for hours. Now, it had been freezing cold
                              > for weeks and there was six inches of snow on the
                              > ground, so that night everyone had gone out prepared
                              > for cold-dry weather, wearing field jackets with
                              > liners and our heavier German boots. Almost no one
                              > brought a Baumholder jacket or other rain gear. But
                              > while we lay there in the open from midnight to
                              > dawn, the temperature rose to just above freezing
                              > and it started to belt down rain. Christ that was
                              > miserable, being soaked, frozen, and belly down in
                              > melting snow for hours. And very, very pissed off.
                              > Yes, very, very pissed off. I
                              > remember one of the squad leaders lying there
                              > staring downrange over his rifle sights with tears
                              > pouring down his face. I imagine he was daydreaming
                              > about who he would like to kill first.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > He got his revenge later on the CALTEX, though.
                              > Jumped up with a live LAW, took careful aim, and
                              > instead of putting a rocket through the tank target
                              > he managed to hit the lift device with a magnificent
                              > square-on shot. The box jumped three feet in the
                              > air and flew apart with pieces of steel whizzing
                              > every which way. Before that I was never really
                              > convinced that you could hit anything with a LAW or
                              > that it would make a difference if you did. Like
                              > grenades, the LAW always struck me as being as much
                              > danger to the guy using it as to the one on the
                              > receiving end.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Speaking about things of questionable performance,
                              > I'm surprised to hear the M113 track heaters were
                              > already crap in the early 1970s. Were they ever any
                              > good? Somebody tell me. Our own heaters worked
                              > just often enough to get our hopes up; the only
                              > reliable heater I knew of was in the Humvee
                              > ambulance. My luckiest-ever return trip from Graf
                              > was in the back of one of those, when I got to lie
                              > down on a stretcher in a heated vehicle and sleep
                              > comfortably all the way to Baumholder -- first
                              > class. No rail head runaround, no
                              > hundred-grunts-per-rail-carriage trip, and no
                              > freezing my ears off TCing an M113 down the autobahn
                              > for ten hours in the snow. I couldn't have been
                              > happier on that ride if a stewardess showed up with
                              > free champagne.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Anyway, compared to Graf, Hohenfels was a treat even
                              > in the worst weather. And on a warm, sunny day it
                              > was downright pleasant.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > -----Original Message-----
                              > From: James smith
                              > [mailto:ironworker20022002@...]
                              > Sent: Tuesday, 25 November 2003 1:13 PM
                              > To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                              > Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready
                              > to serve....
                              >
                              > Damn Matthew sounds like you had it made in Graf.
                              > We never saw the insides of buildings, we stayed in
                              > GP mediums Had those old diesel burnin stoves for
                              > heat and hot water and took a bath in our steel
                              > pots. this was a many a years ago, but I will never
                              > forget hohenfels,graf. It was so fuckin wet, muddy,
                              > and cold. Half the co. got pneumonia at one time or
                              > another. But it was still a great time over there.
                              >
                              > "Ginn, Matthew"
                              > wrote:
                              >
                              > John,
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > We were in those same barracks in the late '80s [in
                              > fact, the soldiers are still in those barracks], but
                              > they were much improved by then. They had some form
                              > of central heat, hot showers, electricity to the
                              > rooms and so forth. We still had a coal-fired power
                              > generation station in the middle of the unit with a
                              > big smokestack that, rumor had it, some fool had
                              > fallen off and killed himself. Some genius at
                              > Baumholder Milcom decided to save money one winter
                              > by not heating the barracks and there was nearly a
                              > mutiny.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > It wasn't too bad down at Graf and Hohenfels,
                              > either. By the time I got there both posts had
                              > clean, heated open-bay buildings that you could pack
                              > into during down time. My platoon sergeant in
                              > A-1/39 told me that in the 1970s they used to pitch
                              > tents and sleep outdoors during the winter training
                              > periods. Glad I missed that. We still got filthy,
                              > wet and frozen, but at least after a couple of days
                              > there was a chance to clean up and defrost a bit,
                              > even if it meant a trudge through rain and mud half
                              > a
                              === message truncated ===


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                            • Lord Wulf
                              WildChicken ... From: John Petteruti To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 8:04 AM Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and
                              Message 14 of 21 , Dec 8, 2003
                              • 0 Attachment
                                WildChicken
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 8:04 AM
                                Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels

                                Wildflicken?
                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Jerry Walker [mailto:wilcalak@...]
                                Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 4:15 PM
                                To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels

                                Beautiful Baumholder
                                Glorious Graf
                                Heavenly Hohenfels
                                Vivacious Vilseck
                                 
                                Did I leave any out?

                                B A <badv33@...> wrote:
                                graf is a four letter place nice to be there for
                                training
                                --- jack cull wrote:
                                > Heaters ??? we had open M 5 Tracks
                                >
                                > Steve Myers wrote:
                                >
                                > v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}o\:*
                                > {behavior:url(#default#VML);}w\:*
                                > {behavior:url(#default#VML);}.shape
                                >
                                {behavior:url(#default#VML);}st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui)
                                > }
                                > No we never had that experience but we did road
                                > march the whole battalion from Mainz to Vilsek (or
                                > maybe Mannheim or Hoenfels) I can’t remember which.
                                > Yeah, it was great no stopping, c-rats for chow,
                                > pissing in a jug, and if you had to crap you better
                                > hold on to it or risk getting pummeled by your crew.
                                > We actually did get to stop as some unlucky or maybe
                                > lucky Rad(depends on your point of view) should’ a
                                > zigged when he should’ a zagged, anyway he caught
                                > the car body on the end connectors and got a little
                                > chewed up. Good thing he didn’t get really caught!
                                > Polezei were not happy and the citizen was not happy
                                > Lt Col Brudvig was not happy. We stopped for a few
                                > minutes but then took off again as we were on a
                                > military mission and by God time was of the essence.
                                > I believe that we only had two breakdowns, which was
                                > miraculous, and they were towed in with the 88’s.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > -----Original Message-----
                                > From: John Petteruti
                                > [mailto:jpetteruti@...]
                                > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 8:24 AM
                                > To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                                > Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Heaters in a 113. Let me think. My three tracks
                                > would blast you out. Real warm. My troops never
                                > complained about it. They complained because I
                                > would not let them stay in the damn things.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Anyone ever road march from Baumholder to Graf.
                                > What an experience. 15 MPH on the Autobaun. The
                                > Rads just loved it. One evern it tail end charlie,
                                > an M60, that was assigned to us to protect our rear
                                > from some hapless unit that was on our way. German
                                > Police were pissed because of the stuff left on the
                                > road.
                                >
                                >
                                > -----Original Message-----
                                > From: Ginn, Matthew
                                > [mailto:matthew.ginn@...]
                                > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 6:47 PM
                                > To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                                > Subject: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels
                                >
                                > Yep, when we were in the barracks it wasn't too bad,
                                > apart from the non-stop sh!t details and other
                                > bright ideas for keeping us busy. Still, I didn't
                                > enjoy Graf much. For the most part we were
                                > lock-stepped through the ranges. No initiative
                                > required, just follow the script -- or else.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Spending so much time waiting added a lot to the
                                > fun. One night we were supposed to whip out to the
                                > range, fire, and return to the barracks. The
                                > platoon made a tactical approach, dismounted the 50
                                > cals, set up the 60s, all the riflemen flopped down
                                > to fire, and then we waited for range control to
                                > clear us to shoot . . . and waited . . . and waited
                                > . . . and waited. . . . We were huddled over our
                                > weapons for hours. Now, it had been freezing cold
                                > for weeks and there was six inches of snow on the
                                > ground, so that night everyone had gone out prepared
                                > for cold-dry weather, wearing field jackets with
                                > liners and our heavier German boots. Almost no one
                                > brought a Baumholder jacket or other rain gear. But
                                > while we lay there in the open from midnight to
                                > dawn, the temperature rose to just above freezing
                                > and it started to belt down rain. Christ that was
                                > miserable, being soaked, frozen, and belly down in
                                > melting snow for hours. And very, very pissed off.
                                > Yes, very, very pissed off. I
                                > remember one of the squad leaders lying there
                                > staring downrange over his rifle sights with tears
                                > pouring down his face. I imagine he was daydreaming
                                > about who he would like to kill first.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > He got his revenge later on the CALTEX, though.
                                > Jumped up with a live LAW, took careful aim, and
                                > instead of putting a rocket through the tank target
                                > he managed to hit the lift device with a magnificent
                                > square-on shot. The box jumped three feet in the
                                > air and flew apart with pieces of steel whizzing
                                > every which way. Before that I was never really
                                > convinced that you could hit anything with a LAW or
                                > that it would make a difference if you did. Like
                                > grenades, the LAW always struck me as being as much
                                > danger to the guy using it as to the one on the
                                > receiving end.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Speaking about things of questionable performance,
                                > I'm surprised to hear the M113 track heaters were
                                > already crap in the early 1970s. Were they ever any
                                > good? Somebody tell me. Our own heaters worked
                                > just often enough to get our hopes up; the only
                                > reliable heater I knew of was in the Humvee
                                > ambulance. My luckiest-ever return trip from Graf
                                > was in the back of one of those, when I got to lie
                                > down on a stretcher in a heated vehicle and sleep
                                > comfortably all the way to Baumholder -- first
                                > class. No rail head runaround, no
                                > hundred-grunts-per-rail-carriage trip, and no
                                > freezing my ears off TCing an M113 down the autobahn
                                > for ten hours in the snow. I couldn't have been
                                > happier on that ride if a stewardess showed up with
                                > free champagne.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Anyway, compared to Graf, Hohenfels was a treat even
                                > in the worst weather. And on a warm, sunny day it
                                > was downright pleasant.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > -----Original Message-----
                                > From: James smith
                                > [mailto:ironworker20022002@...]
                                > Sent: Tuesday, 25 November 2003 1:13 PM
                                > To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                                > Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready
                                > to serve....
                                >
                                > Damn Matthew sounds like you had it made in Graf.
                                > We never saw the insides of buildings, we stayed in
                                > GP mediums Had those old diesel burnin stoves for
                                > heat and hot water and took a bath in our steel
                                > pots. this was a many a years ago, but I will never
                                > forget hohenfels,graf. It was so fuckin wet, muddy,
                                > and cold. Half the co. got pneumonia at one time or
                                > another. But it was still a great time over there.
                                >
                                > "Ginn, Matthew"
                                > wrote:
                                >
                                > John,
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > We were in those same barracks in the late '80s [in
                                > fact, the soldiers are still in those barracks], but
                                > they were much improved by then. They had some form
                                > of central heat, hot showers, electricity to the
                                > rooms and so forth. We still had a coal-fired power
                                > generation station in the middle of the unit with a
                                > big smokestack that, rumor had it, some fool had
                                > fallen off and killed himself. Some genius at
                                > Baumholder Milcom decided to save money one winter
                                > by not heating the barracks and there was nearly a
                                > mutiny.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > It wasn't too bad down at Graf and Hohenfels,
                                > either. By the time I got there both posts had
                                > clean, heated open-bay buildings that you could pack
                                > into during down time. My platoon sergeant in
                                > A-1/39 told me that in the 1970s they used to pitch
                                > tents and sleep outdoors during the winter training
                                > periods. Glad I missed that. We still got filthy,
                                > wet and frozen, but at least after a couple of days
                                > there was a chance to clean up and defrost a bit,
                                > even if it meant a trudge through rain and mud half
                                > a
                                === message truncated ===


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                              • Jerry Walker
                                Oh Yeah! Wonderful Wildflicken!!! John Petteruti wrote:Wildflicken? ... From: Jerry Walker [mailto:wilcalak@yahoo.com] Sent:
                                Message 15 of 21 , Dec 9, 2003
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Oh Yeah!  Wonderful Wildflicken!!!

                                  John Petteruti <jpetteruti@...> wrote:
                                  Wildflicken?
                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: Jerry Walker [mailto:wilcalak@...]
                                  Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 4:15 PM
                                  To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels

                                  Beautiful Baumholder
                                  Glorious Graf
                                  Heavenly Hohenfels
                                  Vivacious Vilseck
                                   
                                  Did I leave any out?

                                  B A <badv33@...> wrote:
                                  graf is a four letter place nice to be there for
                                  training
                                  --- jack cull wrote:
                                  > Heaters ??? we had open M 5 Tracks
                                  >
                                  > Steve Myers wrote:
                                  >
                                  > v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}o\:*
                                  > {behavior:url(#default#VML);}w\:*
                                  > {behavior:url(#default#VML);}.shape
                                  >
                                  {behavior:url(#default#VML);}st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui)
                                  > }
                                  > No we never had that experience but we did road
                                  > march the whole battalion from Mainz to Vilsek (or
                                  > maybe Mannheim or Hoenfels) I can�t remember which.
                                  > Yeah, it was great no stopping, c-rats for chow,
                                  > pissing in a jug, and if you had to crap you better
                                  > hold on to it or risk getting pummeled by your crew.
                                  > We actually did get to stop as some unlucky or maybe
                                  > lucky Rad(depends on your point of view) should� a
                                  > zigged when he should� a zagged, anyway he caught
                                  > the car body on the end connectors and got a little
                                  > chewed up. Good thing he didn�t get really caught!
                                  > Polezei were not happy and the citizen was not happy
                                  > Lt Col Brudvig was not happy. We stopped for a few
                                  > minutes but then took off again as we were on a
                                  > military mission and by God time was of the essence.
                                  > I believe that we only had two breakdowns, which was
                                  > miraculous, and they were towed in with the 88�s.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                  > From: John Petteruti
                                  > [mailto:jpetteruti@...]
                                  > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 8:24 AM
                                  > To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Heaters in a 113. Let me think. My three tracks
                                  > would blast you out. Real warm. My troops never
                                  > complained about it. They complained because I
                                  > would not let them stay in the damn things.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Anyone ever road march from Baumholder to Graf.
                                  > What an experience. 15 MPH on the Autobaun. The
                                  > Rads just loved it. One evern it tail end charlie,
                                  > an M60, that was assigned to us to protect our rear
                                  > from some hapless unit that was on our way. German
                                  > Police were pissed because of the stuff left on the
                                  > road.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                  > From: Ginn, Matthew
                                  > [mailto:matthew.ginn@...]
                                  > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 6:47 PM
                                  > To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subject: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels
                                  >
                                  > Yep, when we were in the barracks it wasn't too bad,
                                  > apart from the non-stop sh!t details and other
                                  > bright ideas for keeping us busy. Still, I didn't
                                  > enjoy Graf much. For the most part we were
                                  > lock-stepped through the ranges. No initiative
                                  > required, just follow the script -- or else.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Spending so much time waiting added a lot to the
                                  > fun. One night we were supposed to whip out to the
                                  > range, fire, and return to the barracks. The
                                  > platoon made a tactical approach, dismounted the 50
                                  > cals, set up the 60s, all the riflemen flopped down
                                  > to fire, and then we waited for range control to
                                  > clear us to shoot . . . and waited . . . and waited
                                  > . . . and waited. . . . We were huddled over our
                                  > weapons for hours. Now, it had been freezing cold
                                  > for weeks and there was six inches of snow on the
                                  > ground, so that night everyone had gone out prepared
                                  > for cold-dry weather, wearing field jackets with
                                  > liners and our heavier German boots. Almost no one
                                  > brought a Baumholder jacket or other rain gear. But
                                  > while we lay there in the open from midnight to
                                  > dawn, the temperature rose to just above freezing
                                  > and it started to belt down rain. Christ that was
                                  > miserable, being soaked, frozen, and belly down in
                                  > melting snow for hours. And very, very pissed off.
                                  > Yes, very, very pissed off. I
                                  > remember one of the squad leaders lying there
                                  > staring downrange over his rifle sights with tears
                                  > pouring down his face. I imagine he was daydreaming
                                  > about who he would like to kill first.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > He got his revenge later on the CALTEX, though.
                                  > Jumped up with a live LAW, took careful aim, and
                                  > instead of putting a rocket through the tank target
                                  > he managed to hit the lift device with a magnificent
                                  > square-on shot. The box jumped three feet in the
                                  > air and flew apart with pieces of steel whizzing
                                  > every which way. Before that I was never really
                                  > convinced that you could hit anything with a LAW or
                                  > that it would make a difference if you did. Like
                                  > grenades, the LAW always struck me as being as much
                                  > danger to the guy using it as to the one on the
                                  > receiving end.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Speaking about things of questionable performance,
                                  > I'm surprised to hear the M113 track heaters were
                                  > already crap in the early 1970s. Were they ever any
                                  > good? Somebody tell me. Our own heaters worked
                                  > just often enough to get our hopes up; the only
                                  > reliable heater I knew of was in the Humvee
                                  > ambulance. My luckiest-ever return trip from Graf
                                  > was in the back of one of those, when I got to lie
                                  > down on a stretcher in a heated vehicle and sleep
                                  > comfortably all the way to Baumholder -- first
                                  > class. No rail head runaround, no
                                  > hundred-grunts-per-rail-carriage trip, and no
                                  > freezing my ears off TCing an M113 down the autobahn
                                  > for ten hours in the snow. I couldn't have been
                                  > happier on that ride if a stewardess showed up with
                                  > free champagne.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Anyway, compared to Graf, Hohenfels was a treat even
                                  > in the worst weather. And on a warm, sunny day it
                                  > was downright pleasant.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                  > From: James smith
                                  > [mailto:ironworker20022002@...]
                                  > Sent: Tuesday, 25 November 2003 1:13 PM
                                  > To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready
                                  > to serve....
                                  >
                                  > Damn Matthew sounds like you had it made in Graf.
                                  > We never saw the insides of buildings, we stayed in
                                  > GP mediums Had those old diesel burnin stoves for
                                  > heat and hot water and took a bath in our steel
                                  > pots. this was a many a years ago, but I will never
                                  > forget hohenfels,graf. It was so fuckin wet, muddy,
                                  > and cold. Half the co. got pneumonia at one time or
                                  > another. But it was still a great time over there.
                                  >
                                  > "Ginn, Matthew"
                                  > wrote:
                                  >
                                  > John,
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > We were in those same barracks in the late '80s [in
                                  > fact, the soldiers are still in those barracks], but
                                  > they were much improved by then. They had some form
                                  > of central heat, hot showers, electricity to the
                                  > rooms and so forth. We still had a coal-fired power
                                  > generation station in the middle of the unit with a
                                  > big smokestack that, rumor had it, some fool had
                                  > fallen off and killed himself. Some genius at
                                  > Baumholder Milcom decided to save money one winter
                                  > by not heating the barracks and there was nearly a
                                  > mutiny.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > It wasn't too bad down at Graf and Hohenfels,
                                  > either. By the time I got there both posts had
                                  > clean, heated open-bay buildings that you could pack
                                  > into during down time. My platoon sergeant in
                                  > A-1/39 told me that in the 1970s they used to pitch
                                  > tents and sleep outdoors during the winter training
                                  > periods. Glad I missed that. We still got filthy,
                                  > wet and frozen, but at least after a couple of days
                                  > there was a chance to clean up and defrost a bit,
                                  > even if it meant a trudge through rain and mud half
                                  > a
                                  === message truncated ===


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                                • Jerry Walker
                                  Good Reply. Lord Wulf wrote:WildChicken ... From: John Petteruti To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 8:04
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Dec 9, 2003
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Good Reply.

                                    Lord Wulf <lordwulf@...> wrote:
                                    WildChicken
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 8:04 AM
                                    Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels

                                    Wildflicken?
                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: Jerry Walker [mailto:wilcalak@...]
                                    Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 4:15 PM
                                    To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels

                                    Beautiful Baumholder
                                    Glorious Graf
                                    Heavenly Hohenfels
                                    Vivacious Vilseck
                                     
                                    Did I leave any out?

                                    B A <badv33@...> wrote:
                                    graf is a four letter place nice to be there for
                                    training
                                    --- jack cull wrote:
                                    > Heaters ??? we had open M 5 Tracks
                                    >
                                    > Steve Myers wrote:
                                    >
                                    > v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}o\:*
                                    > {behavior:url(#default#VML);}w\:*
                                    > {behavior:url(#default#VML);}.shape
                                    >
                                    {behavior:url(#default#VML);}st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui)
                                    > }
                                    > No we never had that experience but we did road
                                    > march the whole battalion from Mainz to Vilsek (or
                                    > maybe Mannheim or Hoenfels) I can�t remember which.
                                    > Yeah, it was great no stopping, c-rats for chow,
                                    > pissing in a jug, and if you had to crap you better
                                    > hold on to it or risk getting pummeled by your crew.
                                    > We actually did get to stop as some unlucky or maybe
                                    > lucky Rad(depends on your point of view) should� a
                                    > zigged when he should� a zagged, anyway he caught
                                    > the car body on the end connectors and got a little
                                    > chewed up. Good thing he didn�t get really caught!
                                    > Polezei were not happy and the citizen was not happy
                                    > Lt Col Brudvig was not happy. We stopped for a few
                                    > minutes but then took off again as we were on a
                                    > military mission and by God time was of the essence.
                                    > I believe that we only had two breakdowns, which was
                                    > miraculous, and they were towed in with the 88�s.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                    > From: John Petteruti
                                    > [mailto:jpetteruti@...]
                                    > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 8:24 AM
                                    > To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Heaters in a 113. Let me think. My three tracks
                                    > would blast you out. Real warm. My troops never
                                    > complained about it. They complained because I
                                    > would not let them stay in the damn things.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Anyone ever road march from Baumholder to Graf.
                                    > What an experience. 15 MPH on the Autobaun. The
                                    > Rads just loved it. One evern it tail end charlie,
                                    > an M60, that was assigned to us to protect our rear
                                    > from some hapless unit that was on our way. German
                                    > Police were pissed because of the stuff left on the
                                    > road.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                    > From: Ginn, Matthew
                                    > [mailto:matthew.ginn@...]
                                    > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 6:47 PM
                                    > To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Subject: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels
                                    >
                                    > Yep, when we were in the barracks it wasn't too bad,
                                    > apart from the non-stop sh!t details and other
                                    > bright ideas for keeping us busy. Still, I didn't
                                    > enjoy Graf much. For the most part we were
                                    > lock-stepped through the ranges. No initiative
                                    > required, just follow the script -- or else.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Spending so much time waiting added a lot to the
                                    > fun. One night we were supposed to whip out to the
                                    > range, fire, and return to the barracks. The
                                    > platoon made a tactical approach, dismounted the 50
                                    > cals, set up the 60s, all the riflemen flopped down
                                    > to fire, and then we waited for range control to
                                    > clear us to shoot . . . and waited . . . and waited
                                    > . . . and waited. . . . We were huddled over our
                                    > weapons for hours. Now, it had been freezing cold
                                    > for weeks and there was six inches of snow on the
                                    > ground, so that night everyone had gone out prepared
                                    > for cold-dry weather, wearing field jackets with
                                    > liners and our heavier German boots. Almost no one
                                    > brought a Baumholder jacket or other rain gear. But
                                    > while we lay there in the open from midnight to
                                    > dawn, the temperature rose to just above freezing
                                    > and it started to belt down rain. Christ that was
                                    > miserable, being soaked, frozen, and belly down in
                                    > melting snow for hours. And very, very pissed off.
                                    > Yes, very, very pissed off. I
                                    > remember one of the squad leaders lying there
                                    > staring downrange over his rifle sights with tears
                                    > pouring down his face. I imagine he was daydreaming
                                    > about who he would like to kill first.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > He got his revenge later on the CALTEX, though.
                                    > Jumped up with a live LAW, took careful aim, and
                                    > instead of putting a rocket through the tank target
                                    > he managed to hit the lift device with a magnificent
                                    > square-on shot. The box jumped three feet in the
                                    > air and flew apart with pieces of steel whizzing
                                    > every which way. Before that I was never really
                                    > convinced that you could hit anything with a LAW or
                                    > that it would make a difference if you did. Like
                                    > grenades, the LAW always struck me as being as much
                                    > danger to the guy using it as to the one on the
                                    > receiving end.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Speaking about things of questionable performance,
                                    > I'm surprised to hear the M113 track heaters were
                                    > already crap in the early 1970s. Were they ever any
                                    > good? Somebody tell me. Our own heaters worked
                                    > just often enough to get our hopes up; the only
                                    > reliable heater I knew of was in the Humvee
                                    > ambulance. My luckiest-ever return trip from Graf
                                    > was in the back of one of those, when I got to lie
                                    > down on a stretcher in a heated vehicle and sleep
                                    > comfortably all the way to Baumholder -- first
                                    > class. No rail head runaround, no
                                    > hundred-grunts-per-rail-carriage trip, and no
                                    > freezing my ears off TCing an M113 down the autobahn
                                    > for ten hours in the snow. I couldn't have been
                                    > happier on that ride if a stewardess showed up with
                                    > free champagne.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Anyway, compared to Graf, Hohenfels was a treat even
                                    > in the worst weather. And on a warm, sunny day it
                                    > was downright pleasant.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                    > From: James smith
                                    > [mailto:ironworker20022002@...]
                                    > Sent: Tuesday, 25 November 2003 1:13 PM
                                    > To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready
                                    > to serve....
                                    >
                                    > Damn Matthew sounds like you had it made in Graf.
                                    > We never saw the insides of buildings, we stayed in
                                    > GP mediums Had those old diesel burnin stoves for
                                    > heat and hot water and took a bath in our steel
                                    > pots. this was a many a years ago, but I will never
                                    > forget hohenfels,graf. It was so fuckin wet, muddy,
                                    > and cold. Half the co. got pneumonia at one time or
                                    > another. But it was still a great time over there.
                                    >
                                    > "Ginn, Matthew"
                                    > wrote:
                                    >
                                    > John,
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > We were in those same barracks in the late '80s [in
                                    > fact, the soldiers are still in those barracks], but
                                    > they were much improved by then. They had some form
                                    > of central heat, hot showers, electricity to the
                                    > rooms and so forth. We still had a coal-fired power
                                    > generation station in the middle of the unit with a
                                    > big smokestack that, rumor had it, some fool had
                                    > fallen off and killed himself. Some genius at
                                    > Baumholder Milcom decided to save money one winter
                                    > by not heating the barracks and there was nearly a
                                    > mutiny.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > It wasn't too bad down at Graf and Hohenfels,
                                    > either. By the time I got there both posts had
                                    > clean, heated open-bay buildings that you could pack
                                    > into during down time. My platoon sergeant in
                                    > A-1/39 told me that in the 1970s they used to pitch
                                    > tents and sleep outdoors during the winter training
                                    > periods. Glad I missed that. We still got filthy,
                                    > wet and frozen, but at least after a couple of days
                                    > there was a chance to clean up and defrost a bit,
                                    > even if it meant a trudge through rain and mud half
                                    > a
                                    === message truncated ===


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                                  • Jerry Walker
                                    Good Reply. Lord Wulf wrote:WildChicken ... From: John Petteruti To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 8:04
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Dec 9, 2003
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Good Reply.

                                      Lord Wulf <lordwulf@...> wrote:
                                      WildChicken
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 8:04 AM
                                      Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels

                                      Wildflicken?
                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: Jerry Walker [mailto:wilcalak@...]
                                      Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 4:15 PM
                                      To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels

                                      Beautiful Baumholder
                                      Glorious Graf
                                      Heavenly Hohenfels
                                      Vivacious Vilseck
                                       
                                      Did I leave any out?

                                      B A <badv33@...> wrote:
                                      graf is a four letter place nice to be there for
                                      training
                                      --- jack cull wrote:
                                      > Heaters ??? we had open M 5 Tracks
                                      >
                                      > Steve Myers wrote:
                                      >
                                      > v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}o\:*
                                      > {behavior:url(#default#VML);}w\:*
                                      > {behavior:url(#default#VML);}.shape
                                      >
                                      {behavior:url(#default#VML);}st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui)
                                      > }
                                      > No we never had that experience but we did road
                                      > march the whole battalion from Mainz to Vilsek (or
                                      > maybe Mannheim or Hoenfels) I can�t remember which.
                                      > Yeah, it was great no stopping, c-rats for chow,
                                      > pissing in a jug, and if you had to crap you better
                                      > hold on to it or risk getting pummeled by your crew.
                                      > We actually did get to stop as some unlucky or maybe
                                      > lucky Rad(depends on your point of view) should� a
                                      > zigged when he should� a zagged, anyway he caught
                                      > the car body on the end connectors and got a little
                                      > chewed up. Good thing he didn�t get really caught!
                                      > Polezei were not happy and the citizen was not happy
                                      > Lt Col Brudvig was not happy. We stopped for a few
                                      > minutes but then took off again as we were on a
                                      > military mission and by God time was of the essence.
                                      > I believe that we only had two breakdowns, which was
                                      > miraculous, and they were towed in with the 88�s.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > -----Original Message-----
                                      > From: John Petteruti
                                      > [mailto:jpetteruti@...]
                                      > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 8:24 AM
                                      > To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Heaters in a 113. Let me think. My three tracks
                                      > would blast you out. Real warm. My troops never
                                      > complained about it. They complained because I
                                      > would not let them stay in the damn things.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Anyone ever road march from Baumholder to Graf.
                                      > What an experience. 15 MPH on the Autobaun. The
                                      > Rads just loved it. One evern it tail end charlie,
                                      > an M60, that was assigned to us to protect our rear
                                      > from some hapless unit that was on our way. German
                                      > Police were pissed because of the stuff left on the
                                      > road.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > -----Original Message-----
                                      > From: Ginn, Matthew
                                      > [mailto:matthew.ginn@...]
                                      > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 6:47 PM
                                      > To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Subject: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels
                                      >
                                      > Yep, when we were in the barracks it wasn't too bad,
                                      > apart from the non-stop sh!t details and other
                                      > bright ideas for keeping us busy. Still, I didn't
                                      > enjoy Graf much. For the most part we were
                                      > lock-stepped through the ranges. No initiative
                                      > required, just follow the script -- or else.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Spending so much time waiting added a lot to the
                                      > fun. One night we were supposed to whip out to the
                                      > range, fire, and return to the barracks. The
                                      > platoon made a tactical approach, dismounted the 50
                                      > cals, set up the 60s, all the riflemen flopped down
                                      > to fire, and then we waited for range control to
                                      > clear us to shoot . . . and waited . . . and waited
                                      > . . . and waited. . . . We were huddled over our
                                      > weapons for hours. Now, it had been freezing cold
                                      > for weeks and there was six inches of snow on the
                                      > ground, so that night everyone had gone out prepared
                                      > for cold-dry weather, wearing field jackets with
                                      > liners and our heavier German boots. Almost no one
                                      > brought a Baumholder jacket or other rain gear. But
                                      > while we lay there in the open from midnight to
                                      > dawn, the temperature rose to just above freezing
                                      > and it started to belt down rain. Christ that was
                                      > miserable, being soaked, frozen, and belly down in
                                      > melting snow for hours. And very, very pissed off.
                                      > Yes, very, very pissed off. I
                                      > remember one of the squad leaders lying there
                                      > staring downrange over his rifle sights with tears
                                      > pouring down his face. I imagine he was daydreaming
                                      > about who he would like to kill first.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > He got his revenge later on the CALTEX, though.
                                      > Jumped up with a live LAW, took careful aim, and
                                      > instead of putting a rocket through the tank target
                                      > he managed to hit the lift device with a magnificent
                                      > square-on shot. The box jumped three feet in the
                                      > air and flew apart with pieces of steel whizzing
                                      > every which way. Before that I was never really
                                      > convinced that you could hit anything with a LAW or
                                      > that it would make a difference if you did. Like
                                      > grenades, the LAW always struck me as being as much
                                      > danger to the guy using it as to the one on the
                                      > receiving end.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Speaking about things of questionable performance,
                                      > I'm surprised to hear the M113 track heaters were
                                      > already crap in the early 1970s. Were they ever any
                                      > good? Somebody tell me. Our own heaters worked
                                      > just often enough to get our hopes up; the only
                                      > reliable heater I knew of was in the Humvee
                                      > ambulance. My luckiest-ever return trip from Graf
                                      > was in the back of one of those, when I got to lie
                                      > down on a stretcher in a heated vehicle and sleep
                                      > comfortably all the way to Baumholder -- first
                                      > class. No rail head runaround, no
                                      > hundred-grunts-per-rail-carriage trip, and no
                                      > freezing my ears off TCing an M113 down the autobahn
                                      > for ten hours in the snow. I couldn't have been
                                      > happier on that ride if a stewardess showed up with
                                      > free champagne.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Anyway, compared to Graf, Hohenfels was a treat even
                                      > in the worst weather. And on a warm, sunny day it
                                      > was downright pleasant.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > -----Original Message-----
                                      > From: James smith
                                      > [mailto:ironworker20022002@...]
                                      > Sent: Tuesday, 25 November 2003 1:13 PM
                                      > To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready
                                      > to serve....
                                      >
                                      > Damn Matthew sounds like you had it made in Graf.
                                      > We never saw the insides of buildings, we stayed in
                                      > GP mediums Had those old diesel burnin stoves for
                                      > heat and hot water and took a bath in our steel
                                      > pots. this was a many a years ago, but I will never
                                      > forget hohenfels,graf. It was so fuckin wet, muddy,
                                      > and cold. Half the co. got pneumonia at one time or
                                      > another. But it was still a great time over there.
                                      >
                                      > "Ginn, Matthew"
                                      > wrote:
                                      >
                                      > John,
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > We were in those same barracks in the late '80s [in
                                      > fact, the soldiers are still in those barracks], but
                                      > they were much improved by then. They had some form
                                      > of central heat, hot showers, electricity to the
                                      > rooms and so forth. We still had a coal-fired power
                                      > generation station in the middle of the unit with a
                                      > big smokestack that, rumor had it, some fool had
                                      > fallen off and killed himself. Some genius at
                                      > Baumholder Milcom decided to save money one winter
                                      > by not heating the barracks and there was nearly a
                                      > mutiny.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > It wasn't too bad down at Graf and Hohenfels,
                                      > either. By the time I got there both posts had
                                      > clean, heated open-bay buildings that you could pack
                                      > into during down time. My platoon sergeant in
                                      > A-1/39 told me that in the 1970s they used to pitch
                                      > tents and sleep outdoors during the winter training
                                      > periods. Glad I missed that. We still got filthy,
                                      > wet and frozen, but at least after a couple of days
                                      > there was a chance to clean up and defrost a bit,
                                      > even if it meant a trudge through rain and mud half
                                      > a
                                      === message truncated ===


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                                    • Jerry Walker
                                      Good Reply. Lord Wulf wrote:WildChicken ... From: John Petteruti To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 8:04
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Dec 9, 2003
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Good Reply.

                                        Lord Wulf <lordwulf@...> wrote:
                                        WildChicken
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 8:04 AM
                                        Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels

                                        Wildflicken?
                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: Jerry Walker [mailto:wilcalak@...]
                                        Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 4:15 PM
                                        To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels

                                        Beautiful Baumholder
                                        Glorious Graf
                                        Heavenly Hohenfels
                                        Vivacious Vilseck
                                         
                                        Did I leave any out?

                                        B A <badv33@...> wrote:
                                        graf is a four letter place nice to be there for
                                        training
                                        --- jack cull wrote:
                                        > Heaters ??? we had open M 5 Tracks
                                        >
                                        > Steve Myers wrote:
                                        >
                                        > v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}o\:*
                                        > {behavior:url(#default#VML);}w\:*
                                        > {behavior:url(#default#VML);}.shape
                                        >
                                        {behavior:url(#default#VML);}st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui)
                                        > }
                                        > No we never had that experience but we did road
                                        > march the whole battalion from Mainz to Vilsek (or
                                        > maybe Mannheim or Hoenfels) I can�t remember which.
                                        > Yeah, it was great no stopping, c-rats for chow,
                                        > pissing in a jug, and if you had to crap you better
                                        > hold on to it or risk getting pummeled by your crew.
                                        > We actually did get to stop as some unlucky or maybe
                                        > lucky Rad(depends on your point of view) should� a
                                        > zigged when he should� a zagged, anyway he caught
                                        > the car body on the end connectors and got a little
                                        > chewed up. Good thing he didn�t get really caught!
                                        > Polezei were not happy and the citizen was not happy
                                        > Lt Col Brudvig was not happy. We stopped for a few
                                        > minutes but then took off again as we were on a
                                        > military mission and by God time was of the essence.
                                        > I believe that we only had two breakdowns, which was
                                        > miraculous, and they were towed in with the 88�s.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                        > From: John Petteruti
                                        > [mailto:jpetteruti@...]
                                        > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 8:24 AM
                                        > To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Heaters in a 113. Let me think. My three tracks
                                        > would blast you out. Real warm. My troops never
                                        > complained about it. They complained because I
                                        > would not let them stay in the damn things.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Anyone ever road march from Baumholder to Graf.
                                        > What an experience. 15 MPH on the Autobaun. The
                                        > Rads just loved it. One evern it tail end charlie,
                                        > an M60, that was assigned to us to protect our rear
                                        > from some hapless unit that was on our way. German
                                        > Police were pissed because of the stuff left on the
                                        > road.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                        > From: Ginn, Matthew
                                        > [mailto:matthew.ginn@...]
                                        > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 6:47 PM
                                        > To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Subject: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels
                                        >
                                        > Yep, when we were in the barracks it wasn't too bad,
                                        > apart from the non-stop sh!t details and other
                                        > bright ideas for keeping us busy. Still, I didn't
                                        > enjoy Graf much. For the most part we were
                                        > lock-stepped through the ranges. No initiative
                                        > required, just follow the script -- or else.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Spending so much time waiting added a lot to the
                                        > fun. One night we were supposed to whip out to the
                                        > range, fire, and return to the barracks. The
                                        > platoon made a tactical approach, dismounted the 50
                                        > cals, set up the 60s, all the riflemen flopped down
                                        > to fire, and then we waited for range control to
                                        > clear us to shoot . . . and waited . . . and waited
                                        > . . . and waited. . . . We were huddled over our
                                        > weapons for hours. Now, it had been freezing cold
                                        > for weeks and there was six inches of snow on the
                                        > ground, so that night everyone had gone out prepared
                                        > for cold-dry weather, wearing field jackets with
                                        > liners and our heavier German boots. Almost no one
                                        > brought a Baumholder jacket or other rain gear. But
                                        > while we lay there in the open from midnight to
                                        > dawn, the temperature rose to just above freezing
                                        > and it started to belt down rain. Christ that was
                                        > miserable, being soaked, frozen, and belly down in
                                        > melting snow for hours. And very, very pissed off.
                                        > Yes, very, very pissed off. I
                                        > remember one of the squad leaders lying there
                                        > staring downrange over his rifle sights with tears
                                        > pouring down his face. I imagine he was daydreaming
                                        > about who he would like to kill first.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > He got his revenge later on the CALTEX, though.
                                        > Jumped up with a live LAW, took careful aim, and
                                        > instead of putting a rocket through the tank target
                                        > he managed to hit the lift device with a magnificent
                                        > square-on shot. The box jumped three feet in the
                                        > air and flew apart with pieces of steel whizzing
                                        > every which way. Before that I was never really
                                        > convinced that you could hit anything with a LAW or
                                        > that it would make a difference if you did. Like
                                        > grenades, the LAW always struck me as being as much
                                        > danger to the guy using it as to the one on the
                                        > receiving end.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Speaking about things of questionable performance,
                                        > I'm surprised to hear the M113 track heaters were
                                        > already crap in the early 1970s. Were they ever any
                                        > good? Somebody tell me. Our own heaters worked
                                        > just often enough to get our hopes up; the only
                                        > reliable heater I knew of was in the Humvee
                                        > ambulance. My luckiest-ever return trip from Graf
                                        > was in the back of one of those, when I got to lie
                                        > down on a stretcher in a heated vehicle and sleep
                                        > comfortably all the way to Baumholder -- first
                                        > class. No rail head runaround, no
                                        > hundred-grunts-per-rail-carriage trip, and no
                                        > freezing my ears off TCing an M113 down the autobahn
                                        > for ten hours in the snow. I couldn't have been
                                        > happier on that ride if a stewardess showed up with
                                        > free champagne.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Anyway, compared to Graf, Hohenfels was a treat even
                                        > in the worst weather. And on a warm, sunny day it
                                        > was downright pleasant.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                        > From: James smith
                                        > [mailto:ironworker20022002@...]
                                        > Sent: Tuesday, 25 November 2003 1:13 PM
                                        > To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready
                                        > to serve....
                                        >
                                        > Damn Matthew sounds like you had it made in Graf.
                                        > We never saw the insides of buildings, we stayed in
                                        > GP mediums Had those old diesel burnin stoves for
                                        > heat and hot water and took a bath in our steel
                                        > pots. this was a many a years ago, but I will never
                                        > forget hohenfels,graf. It was so fuckin wet, muddy,
                                        > and cold. Half the co. got pneumonia at one time or
                                        > another. But it was still a great time over there.
                                        >
                                        > "Ginn, Matthew"
                                        > wrote:
                                        >
                                        > John,
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > We were in those same barracks in the late '80s [in
                                        > fact, the soldiers are still in those barracks], but
                                        > they were much improved by then. They had some form
                                        > of central heat, hot showers, electricity to the
                                        > rooms and so forth. We still had a coal-fired power
                                        > generation station in the middle of the unit with a
                                        > big smokestack that, rumor had it, some fool had
                                        > fallen off and killed himself. Some genius at
                                        > Baumholder Milcom decided to save money one winter
                                        > by not heating the barracks and there was nearly a
                                        > mutiny.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > It wasn't too bad down at Graf and Hohenfels,
                                        > either. By the time I got there both posts had
                                        > clean, heated open-bay buildings that you could pack
                                        > into during down time. My platoon sergeant in
                                        > A-1/39 told me that in the 1970s they used to pitch
                                        > tents and sleep outdoors during the winter training
                                        > periods. Glad I missed that. We still got filthy,
                                        > wet and frozen, but at least after a couple of days
                                        > there was a chance to clean up and defrost a bit,
                                        > even if it meant a trudge through rain and mud half
                                        > a
                                        === message truncated ===


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                                      • Lord Wulf
                                        We had given it that name ( although I later discovered it was an existing name already ) after we had no food one day cuz the MRE s were behind us along with
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Dec 9, 2003
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          We had given it that name ( although I later discovered it was an existing name already ) after we had no food one day cuz the MRE's were behind us along with everything else ( great planning on our LT's behalf ) and were still a day out..... anyway, we had free range chicken one of the locals had brought us when we cleaned out his mealtruck.....
                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 12:28 PM
                                          Subject: Re: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels

                                          Good Reply.

                                          Lord Wulf <lordwulf@...> wrote:
                                          WildChicken
                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 8:04 AM
                                          Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels

                                          Wildflicken?
                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: Jerry Walker [mailto:wilcalak@...]
                                          Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 4:15 PM
                                          To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels

                                          Beautiful Baumholder
                                          Glorious Graf
                                          Heavenly Hohenfels
                                          Vivacious Vilseck
                                           
                                          Did I leave any out?

                                          B A <badv33@...> wrote:
                                          graf is a four letter place nice to be there for
                                          training
                                          --- jack cull wrote:
                                          > Heaters ??? we had open M 5 Tracks
                                          >
                                          > Steve Myers wrote:
                                          >
                                          > v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}o\:*
                                          > {behavior:url(#default#VML);}w\:*
                                          > {behavior:url(#default#VML);}.shape
                                          >
                                          {behavior:url(#default#VML);}st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui)
                                          > }
                                          > No we never had that experience but we did road
                                          > march the whole battalion from Mainz to Vilsek (or
                                          > maybe Mannheim or Hoenfels) I can’t remember which.
                                          > Yeah, it was great no stopping, c-rats for chow,
                                          > pissing in a jug, and if you had to crap you better
                                          > hold on to it or risk getting pummeled by your crew.
                                          > We actually did get to stop as some unlucky or maybe
                                          > lucky Rad(depends on your point of view) should’ a
                                          > zigged when he should’ a zagged, anyway he caught
                                          > the car body on the end connectors and got a little
                                          > chewed up. Good thing he didn’t get really caught!
                                          > Polezei were not happy and the citizen was not happy
                                          > Lt Col Brudvig was not happy. We stopped for a few
                                          > minutes but then took off again as we were on a
                                          > military mission and by God time was of the essence.
                                          > I believe that we only had two breakdowns, which was
                                          > miraculous, and they were towed in with the 88’s.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > -----Original Message-----
                                          > From: John Petteruti
                                          > [mailto:jpetteruti@...]
                                          > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 8:24 AM
                                          > To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Heaters in a 113. Let me think. My three tracks
                                          > would blast you out. Real warm. My troops never
                                          > complained about it. They complained because I
                                          > would not let them stay in the damn things.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Anyone ever road march from Baumholder to Graf.
                                          > What an experience. 15 MPH on the Autobaun. The
                                          > Rads just loved it. One evern it tail end charlie,
                                          > an M60, that was assigned to us to protect our rear
                                          > from some hapless unit that was on our way. German
                                          > Police were pissed because of the stuff left on the
                                          > road.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > -----Original Message-----
                                          > From: Ginn, Matthew
                                          > [mailto:matthew.ginn@...]
                                          > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 6:47 PM
                                          > To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Subject: [8thdivmodern] RE: Graf and Hohenfels
                                          >
                                          > Yep, when we were in the barracks it wasn't too bad,
                                          > apart from the non-stop sh!t details and other
                                          > bright ideas for keeping us busy. Still, I didn't
                                          > enjoy Graf much. For the most part we were
                                          > lock-stepped through the ranges. No initiative
                                          > required, just follow the script -- or else.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Spending so much time waiting added a lot to the
                                          > fun. One night we were supposed to whip out to the
                                          > range, fire, and return to the barracks. The
                                          > platoon made a tactical approach, dismounted the 50
                                          > cals, set up the 60s, all the riflemen flopped down
                                          > to fire, and then we waited for range control to
                                          > clear us to shoot . . . and waited . . . and waited
                                          > . . . and waited. . . . We were huddled over our
                                          > weapons for hours. Now, it had been freezing cold
                                          > for weeks and there was six inches of snow on the
                                          > ground, so that night everyone had gone out prepared
                                          > for cold-dry weather, wearing field jackets with
                                          > liners and our heavier German boots. Almost no one
                                          > brought a Baumholder jacket or other rain gear. But
                                          > while we lay there in the open from midnight to
                                          > dawn, the temperature rose to just above freezing
                                          > and it started to belt down rain. Christ that was
                                          > miserable, being soaked, frozen, and belly down in
                                          > melting snow for hours. And very, very pissed off.
                                          > Yes, very, very pissed off. I
                                          > remember one of the squad leaders lying there
                                          > staring downrange over his rifle sights with tears
                                          > pouring down his face. I imagine he was daydreaming
                                          > about who he would like to kill first.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > He got his revenge later on the CALTEX, though.
                                          > Jumped up with a live LAW, took careful aim, and
                                          > instead of putting a rocket through the tank target
                                          > he managed to hit the lift device with a magnificent
                                          > square-on shot. The box jumped three feet in the
                                          > air and flew apart with pieces of steel whizzing
                                          > every which way. Before that I was never really
                                          > convinced that you could hit anything with a LAW or
                                          > that it would make a difference if you did. Like
                                          > grenades, the LAW always struck me as being as much
                                          > danger to the guy using it as to the one on the
                                          > receiving end.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Speaking about things of questionable performance,
                                          > I'm surprised to hear the M113 track heaters were
                                          > already crap in the early 1970s. Were they ever any
                                          > good? Somebody tell me. Our own heaters worked
                                          > just often enough to get our hopes up; the only
                                          > reliable heater I knew of was in the Humvee
                                          > ambulance. My luckiest-ever return trip from Graf
                                          > was in the back of one of those, when I got to lie
                                          > down on a stretcher in a heated vehicle and sleep
                                          > comfortably all the way to Baumholder -- first
                                          > class. No rail head runaround, no
                                          > hundred-grunts-per-rail-carriage trip, and no
                                          > freezing my ears off TCing an M113 down the autobahn
                                          > for ten hours in the snow. I couldn't have been
                                          > happier on that ride if a stewardess showed up with
                                          > free champagne.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Anyway, compared to Graf, Hohenfels was a treat even
                                          > in the worst weather. And on a warm, sunny day it
                                          > was downright pleasant.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > -----Original Message-----
                                          > From: James smith
                                          > [mailto:ironworker20022002@...]
                                          > Sent: Tuesday, 25 November 2003 1:13 PM
                                          > To: 8thdivmodern@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Subject: RE: [8thdivmodern] back on line and ready
                                          > to serve....
                                          >
                                          > Damn Matthew sounds like you had it made in Graf.
                                          > We never saw the insides of buildings, we stayed in
                                          > GP mediums Had those old diesel burnin stoves for
                                          > heat and hot water and took a bath in our steel
                                          > pots. this was a many a years ago, but I will never
                                          > forget hohenfels,graf. It was so fuckin wet, muddy,
                                          > and cold. Half the co. got pneumonia at one time or
                                          > another. But it was still a great time over there.
                                          >
                                          > "Ginn, Matthew"
                                          > wrote:
                                          >
                                          > John,
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > We were in those same barracks in the late '80s [in
                                          > fact, the soldiers are still in those barracks], but
                                          > they were much improved by then. They had some form
                                          > of central heat, hot showers, electricity to the
                                          > rooms and so forth. We still had a coal-fired power
                                          > generation station in the middle of the unit with a
                                          > big smokestack that, rumor had it, some fool had
                                          > fallen off and killed himself. Some genius at
                                          > Baumholder Milcom decided to save money one winter
                                          > by not heating the barracks and there was nearly a
                                          > mutiny.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > It wasn't too bad down at Graf and Hohenfels,
                                          > either. By the time I got there both posts had
                                          > clean, heated open-bay buildings that you could pack
                                          > into during down time. My platoon sergeant in
                                          > A-1/39 told me that in the 1970s they used to pitch
                                          > tents and sleep outdoors during the winter training
                                          > periods. Glad I missed that. We still got filthy,
                                          > wet and frozen, but at least after a couple of days
                                          > there was a chance to clean up and defrost a bit,
                                          > even if it meant a trudge through rain and mud half
                                          > a
                                          === message truncated ===


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