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Re: Wigan not Warley

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  • Ian Pither
    ... beyond are always welcome. Thanks to those who have in the past contributed. Ian (membership 3105 ) ... toy trains. ... Clarke and Frank Sharp ... miles
    Message 1 of 16 , Dec 1, 2007
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      --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Clarke" <clarke@...> wrote:
      >Wether its Wigan or Warley any photos for those who live out and
      beyond are always welcome.
      Thanks to those who have in the past contributed.
      Ian (membership 3105 )

      > Never mind Warley, it might be a BIG show but most of trade is for
      toy trains.
      > Come to a real modellers show in Wigan 8/9 December and meet Howard
      Clarke and Frank Sharp
      > See you there
      > Howard 215
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: David J. Elliott
      > To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 2:54 PM
      > Subject: RE: [7mm NGA] Warley
      >
      >
      > Vancouver to Toronto is 4.5 hr. and we are in Victoria, only 50
      miles away
      > but 2 hours including the ferry, 25 min by air but then with
      airport delays!
      >
      > If anyone comes to Victoria we have a small group of On30
      modellers.
      >
      > David
      >
      > _____
      >
      > From: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com [mailto:7mmnga@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of
      > David Hughes
      > Sent: November 29, 2007 06:45
      > To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: RE: [7mm NGA] Warley
      >
      > As far as Toronto, perhaps.
      >
      > We're talking about some of the most seriously congested roads in
      the UK. I
      > don't know BC, but Niagara to downtown Toronto is a comparable
      journey
      > (minus the fruit trees). Now you've got me longing for Canada
      again ...
      >
      > Cheers,
      >
      > David
      >
      > To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups. <mailto:7mmnga%40yahoogroups.comFrom>
      comFrom:
      > theelliotts@ <mailto:theelliotts%40shaw.caDate> shaw.caDate: Thu,
      29 Nov
      > 2007 06:23:42 -0800Subject: RE: [7mm NGA] Warley
      >
      > David, I doubt it, it takes 7 hours Vancouver BC to Halifax NB
      and 9
      > Vancouver toHeathrow Canada is a very big country at 5.5 time
      > zones.David_____ From: 7mmnga@yahoogroups. <mailto:7mmnga%
      40yahoogroups.com>
      > com [mailto:7mmnga@yahoogroups. <mailto:7mmnga%40yahoogroups.com>
      com] On
      > Behalf OfDavid HughesSent: November 29, 2007 05:59To:
      7mmnga@yahoogroups.
      > <mailto:7mmnga%40yahoogroups.comSubject> comSubject: RE: [7mm NGA]
      > WarleyDavid,I'll bet we take longer to drive to the Ex than it
      would for you
      > to flyacross Canada (but perhaps not as long as the Atlantic too
      <g>).I plan
      > on taking my camera, and I'm sure I won't be alone.David
      HWiltshire, UKTo:
      > 7mmnga@yahoogroups. <mailto:7mmnga%40yahoogroups.comFrom>
      > comFrom:theelliotts@ <mailto:theelliotts%40shaw.caDate>
      shaw.caDate: Wed, 28
      > Nov2007 16:30:15 -0800Subject: RE: [7mm NGA] WarleyDon, and
      othersFor a few
      > of us it's a loooong way, so please eve
      > __________________________________________________________
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      > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.10/1159 - Release Date:
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    • Trev
      Photos at Warley will be from the back of a 3 deep crowd an while being nudged in the back from the 3 deep crowd at the layout (I think thats what it is but
      Message 2 of 16 , Dec 1, 2007
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        Photos at Warley will be from the back of a 3 deep crowd an while being
        nudged in the back from the 3 deep crowd at the layout (I think thats what
        it is but Who knows) behind the photographer


        _____

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      • John Mudd
        I ve just got back from Warley. Busy; yes but plenty of space and not too crowded. Certainly a good show; but the floor layout I found a little confusing; but
        Message 3 of 16 , Dec 1, 2007
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          I've just got back from Warley. Busy; yes but plenty of space and not too crowded. Certainly a good show; but the floor layout I found a little confusing; but perhaps that's my age! Good value.
          John Mudd
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Trev
          To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 12:45 PM
          Subject: RE: [7mm NGA] Re: Wigan not Warley



          Photos at Warley will be from the back of a 3 deep crowd an while being
          nudged in the back from the 3 deep crowd at the layout (I think thats what
          it is but Who knows) behind the photographer

          _____

          HYPERLINK
          "http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=1848942/grpspId=1706533813/msgId
          =8586/stime=1196500199/nc1=3848607/nc2=4025304/nc3=4990222"


          No virus found in this outgoing message.
          Checked by AVG Free Edition.
          Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.12/1162 - Release Date: 30/11/2007
          21:26


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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        • Frank Sharp
          David, I m not sure whether Howard is offering to pay your air fare, but though I d be pleased to see you, I M NOT! However if you come by boat, the show is
          Message 4 of 16 , Dec 1, 2007
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            David,



            I'm not sure whether Howard is offering to pay your air fare, but though I'd
            be pleased to see you, I'M NOT!



            However if you come by boat, the show is only 5 minutes walk from Wigan
            Pier!



            Joking aside, I've been most years recently, either as a visitor or helping
            out somewhere, it is as Howard says, usually a modeller's show rather than a
            pile the boxes high and sell 'em cheap do. Give you some idea, there are I
            think more S4, P4 and EM layouts than 00, unfortunately only one On30, and
            thought I've seen it before, it is nicely done. However I gather
            Macclesfield's O gauge has a narrow gauge feeder, Howard's influence no
            doubt.



            If you look at the traders list, you'll see it's the last chance to stock up
            on bits and pieces ready for Christmas.



            If I'm allowed leave from the stand, I'll try to take some pictures. Come
            and say hello.



            Frank







            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Don Mason
            ... toy trains. I take it you re not going to Warley this year then, Nobby? Oh heck.......today I spent nearly 300 quid on toy trains then ...and not a single
            Message 5 of 16 , Dec 1, 2007
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              --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Clarke" <clarke@...> wrote:
              >
              > Never mind Warley, it might be a BIG show but most of trade is for
              toy trains.




              I take it you're not going to Warley this year then, Nobby?

              Oh heck.......today I spent nearly 300 quid on toy trains then ...and
              not a single loco or item of stock included in that either !!
            • Don Mason
              ... not too crowded. Certainly a good show; but the floor layout I found a little confusing; but perhaps that s my age! Good value. ... John - You re dead
              Message 6 of 16 , Dec 1, 2007
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                --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "John Mudd" <jlsmudd@...> wrote:
                >
                > I've just got back from Warley. Busy; yes but plenty of space and
                not too crowded. Certainly a good show; but the floor layout I found a
                little confusing; but perhaps that's my age! Good value.
                > John Mudd
                >


                John - You're dead right. The floor layout was definitely confusing
                this year - and I told them so too.

                Much more muddled than in previous years. I think having the biggest
                NEC hall at their disposal this year didn't actually do them any
                favours.
              • John Mudd
                Don, Agreed: Definitely not toys in the general meaning sense of the word. Qualified as Big Boys Toys maybe? Toys from 12 to the foot down to 1mm to the
                Message 7 of 16 , Dec 2, 2007
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                  Don,

                  Agreed: Definitely not toys in the general meaning sense of the word. Qualified as Big Boys Toys maybe? Toys from 12" to the foot down to 1mm to the foot (Z Gauge?) Layouts and models, certainly worth thousands are certainly NOT toys or to be toyed with. I too spent out and did not waste my money on simple play things. Models are NOT TOYS.

                  Our rail network incidentally, had fun of some sort playing trains just outside of Coventry. Delayed my homeward bound journey by about 20 to 30 minutes.

                  John
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Don Mason
                  To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 1:38 AM
                  Subject: [7mm NGA] Re: Wigan not Warley


                  --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Clarke" <clarke@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Never mind Warley, it might be a BIG show but most of trade is for
                  toy trains.

                  I take it you're not going to Warley this year then, Nobby?

                  Oh heck.......today I spent nearly 300 quid on toy trains then ...and
                  not a single loco or item of stock included in that either !!





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • David Hughes
                  I understand they didn t actually want Hall 5: things did look a little sparse from the main entrance. Back to David s original point, I m afraid my photos are
                  Message 8 of 16 , Dec 3, 2007
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                    I understand they didn't actually want Hall 5: things did look a little sparse from the main entrance.

                    Back to David's original point, I'm afraid my photos are pants so I hope someone else has forced their way through 3 deep crowds.

                    David Hughes

                    PS For good measure I spent (or rather, distaff side did) £500 on non-toys: digital control.


                    To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.comFrom: maineng@...: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 01:41:53 +0000Subject: [7mm NGA] Re: Wigan not Warley




                    --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "John Mudd" <jlsmudd@...> wrote:>> I've just got back from Warley. Busy; yes but plenty of space and not too crowded. Certainly a good show; but the floor layout I found a little confusing; but perhaps that's my age! Good value.> John Mudd> John - You're dead right. The floor layout was definitely confusing this year - and I told them so too.Much more muddled than in previous years. I think having the biggest NEC hall at their disposal this year didn't actually do them any favours.






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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Roy Wood
                    ... From the exhibitors point of view this translates to, for once, having lots of welcome space behind the layout! The gangways looked adequate, too. regards
                    Message 9 of 16 , Dec 4, 2007
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                      > I understand they didn't actually want Hall 5:
                      > things did look a little sparse from the main
                      > entrance.

                      From the exhibitors point of view this translates to,
                      for once, having lots of welcome space behind the
                      layout! The gangways looked adequate, too.
                      regards
                      Roy Wood
                      >
                      > Back to David's original point, I'm afraid my photos
                      > are pants so I hope someone else has forced their
                      > way through 3 deep crowds.
                      >
                      > David Hughes
                      >
                      > PS For good measure I spent (or rather, distaff side
                      > did) £500 on non-toys: digital control.
                      >
                      >
                      > To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.comFrom:
                      > maineng@...: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 01:41:53
                      > +0000Subject: [7mm NGA] Re: Wigan not Warley
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "John Mudd"
                      > <jlsmudd@...> wrote:>> I've just got back from
                      > Warley. Busy; yes but plenty of space and not too
                      > crowded. Certainly a good show; but the floor layout
                      > I found a little confusing; but perhaps that's my
                      > age! Good value.> John Mudd> John - You're dead
                      > right. The floor layout was definitely confusing
                      > this year - and I told them so too.Much more muddled
                      > than in previous years. I think having the biggest
                      > NEC hall at their disposal this year didn't actually
                      > do them any favours.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      _________________________________________________________________
                      > Telly addicts unite!
                      > http://www.searchgamesbox.com/tvtown.shtml
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                      > removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > This group is:
                      > 1 - for people interested in modelling narrow gauge
                      > railways in 7mm:1ft scale or thereabouts
                      > 2 - not restricted to members of the 7mm Narrow
                      > Gauge Association although membership of said
                      > organisation is thoroughly recommended
                      > 3 - moderated by current serving members of the 7mm
                      > Narrow Gauge Association committee
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • John C. Smith
                      As a member of the Warley Club perhaps I can shed a little light on the subject of Hall 5. Roy is quite correct in saying that it was not the hall of our
                      Message 10 of 16 , Dec 4, 2007
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                        As a member of the Warley Club perhaps I can shed a little light on the subject of Hall 5. Roy is quite correct in saying that it was not the hall of our original choice, however it should be born in mind that whilst the Show is big in model railway terms as a customer of the NEC we are small fry!

                        Last weekend the BBC Food Show was running for, I think, five days occupying several halls, together with the Motor Cycle Show, also occupying several halls. It is not just hall occupation to take into account of course, there's dozens of other logistical matters to be thought through.

                        When offered Hall 5 we accepted it, although the floor area was greatly in excess of our needs, as we saw it had several advantages. We were able to become virtually self contained, all ticket booths would be in the hall, getting us off the concourse, (this was useful as people wanting to buy tickets for other shows wouldn't be trying to get them from our ticket booths and delaying our customers); all queues would be in the hall, again without clogging the concourse; it was more convenient for people travelling by train to get to us, a high proportion of our visitors do come by train especially on the Saturday, all catering, including exhibitors catering was in the hall, (a major plus point I might add), and it was convenient not to have to spill over into parts of other halls as has happened on some previous exhibitions.

                        It also enabled us to provide aisles of more than adequate width and the layouts had plenty of space, more than can be said for some well known exhibitions as I have found to my discomfort and inconvenience on numerous occasions. Security was also much easier to supervise, like a lot of other shows I guess, the "light fingered brigade" like to test us from time to time.

                        Next year we are having to change the dates to 22nd and 23rd November, again not from our choice but because the Motor Cycle Show is, I think, expanding threefold and taking over a huge slice of the NEC including the circulation areas so we, as small fry, got the big heave-ho, I can say however that we are guaranteed the new dates for at least the next two years.

                        I trust this helps to clarify the situation

                        John Smith.


                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Roy Wood
                        To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 8:43 AM
                        Subject: RE: [7mm NGA] Re: Wigan not Warley



                        > I understand they didn't actually want Hall 5:
                        > things did look a little sparse from the main
                        > entrance.

                        From the exhibitors point of view this translates to,
                        for once, having lots of welcome space behind the
                        layout! The gangways looked adequate, too.
                        regards
                        Roy Wood
                        >
                        > Back to David's original point, I'm afraid my photos
                        > are pants so I hope someone else has forced their
                        > way through 3 deep crowds.
                        >
                        > David Hughes
                        >
                        > PS For good measure I spent (or rather, distaff side
                        > did) £500 on non-toys: digital control.
                        >
                        >
                        > To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.comFrom:
                        > maineng@...: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 01:41:53
                        > +0000Subject: [7mm NGA] Re: Wigan not Warley
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "John Mudd"
                        > <jlsmudd@...> wrote:>> I've just got back from
                        > Warley. Busy; yes but plenty of space and not too
                        > crowded. Certainly a good show; but the floor layout
                        > I found a little confusing; but perhaps that's my
                        > age! Good value.> John Mudd> John - You're dead
                        > right. The floor layout was definitely confusing
                        > this year - and I told them so too.Much more muddled
                        > than in previous years. I think having the biggest
                        > NEC hall at their disposal this year didn't actually
                        > do them any favours.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        __________________________________________________________
                        > Telly addicts unite!
                        > http://www.searchgamesbox.com/tvtown.shtml
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                        > removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > This group is:
                        > 1 - for people interested in modelling narrow gauge
                        > railways in 7mm:1ft scale or thereabouts
                        > 2 - not restricted to members of the 7mm Narrow
                        > Gauge Association although membership of said
                        > organisation is thoroughly recommended
                        > 3 - moderated by current serving members of the 7mm
                        > Narrow Gauge Association committee
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Don Mason
                        Thanks to John C Smith for an excellent post. I hope John, you didn t take my original comment the wrong way..... All of the points you made were extremely
                        Message 11 of 16 , Dec 5, 2007
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                          Thanks to John C Smith for an excellent post.

                          I hope John, you didn't take my original comment the wrong way.....

                          All of the points you made were extremely valid and all of the
                          advantages you listed certainly worked out extremely well.

                          The hall was much less crowded than usual, with plenty of aisle
                          spce, etc ....which was very welcome, as were all of the other
                          facilities 'en-suite', as it were.

                          All in all, a first-class effort from everyone concerned at the
                          Warley Club.

                          However, I still think it was difficult to navigate this year for
                          some reason - at first glance, most of the layouts seemed to be in
                          one place and most of the trade in another - but then it went wrong,
                          with other odd traders dotted about all over the place, mixed in
                          with layouts, demos, etc. I had great difficulty in finding some of
                          my 'regular visits' this year.

                          Personally, I would much prefer to go the USA way and keep layouts
                          and trade well apart. That way, those who want to look at layouts
                          can do so in peace, whilst those who would rather spend all day
                          buying can also do so, without getting in each other's way.

                          But well done again for a 'spiffing' event overall, as they used to
                          say at public school !!
                        • John C. Smith
                          Greetings Don, Don t worry, no offence was taken at all, I just felt that it might be helpful to give a bit of insight into the problems etc. that we sometimes
                          Message 12 of 16 , Dec 6, 2007
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                            Greetings Don,

                            Don't worry, no offence was taken at all, I just felt that it might be helpful to give a bit of insight into the problems etc. that we sometimes face!

                            I agree that perhaps it was difficult to navigate but again one has to strike a balance, for instance all the traders who book shell stands are grouped around the perimeter as the back of these stands form the "wall" of the hall. In some cases we try to keep specialist traders near to the specialist layouts and enthusiasts they serve it but, like the best laid plans of mice and men, it doesn't always work! We try to please the majority of our visitors, and let's face it, if they don't like it they are going to vote by their feet next year, so we hope we get it somewhere near as right as we can get it!

                            Coming back to the problem of logistics that I mentioned in my earlier post, Warley is one of the few shows in the country where all exhibitors and traders can drive their vehicles into the exhibition hall, right up to their pitch to unload their layout/stock, (no carrying heavy layouts long distances!), Hall 5 had several vehicular access doors, the show closed at 5pm on Sunday and by 6-30, with one or two exceptions the hall was completely clear. In the crowded NEC complex, getting those vehicles in the right place at the right time takes a bit of organising!

                            HOPE TO SEE YOU ALL THERE NEXT YEAR!

                            John.



                            -----
                            From: Don Mason
                            To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 6:27 PM
                            Subject: [7mm NGA] To John C Smith - Re: Wigan not Warley


                            Thanks to John C Smith for an excellent post.

                            I hope John, you didn't take my original comment the wrong way.....

                            All of the points you made were extremely valid and all of the
                            advantages you listed certainly worked out extremely well.

                            The hall was much less crowded than usual, with plenty of aisle
                            spce, etc ....which was very welcome, as were all of the other
                            facilities 'en-suite', as it were.

                            All in all, a first-class effort from everyone concerned at the
                            Warley Club.

                            However, I still think it was difficult to navigate this year for
                            some reason - at first glance, most of the layouts seemed to be in
                            one place and most of the trade in another - but then it went wrong,
                            with other odd traders dotted about all over the place, mixed in
                            with layouts, demos, etc. I had great difficulty in finding some of
                            my 'regular visits' this year.

                            Personally, I would much prefer to go the USA way and keep layouts
                            and trade well apart. That way, those who want to look at layouts
                            can do so in peace, whilst those who would rather spend all day
                            buying can also do so, without getting in each other's way.

                            But well done again for a 'spiffing' event overall, as they used to
                            say at public school !!





                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • David Hughes
                            I m glad there s been such a wide variety of opinions aired on Warley (and Wigan). For what it s worth, this was my first visit to Warley, and I think I ll go
                            Message 13 of 16 , Dec 6, 2007
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                              I'm glad there's been such a wide variety of opinions aired on Warley (and Wigan). For what it's worth, this was my first visit to Warley, and I think I'll go again. However what I've learned is that Warley really deserves if not to be visited both days, then at least for a full day. I arrived 12.30 on Sunday and left as it closed, and this wasn't enough. I didn't even manage to visit the 7mmNGA stand, for shame!

                              I was encouraged to go by my L&B partner-in-crime, Steve. His better half runs a lace-making business and they came across Warley because for many years they've shared NEC as a venue, same weekend as a Midlands lace event. This year the lace event switched to Cranmore Park in Solihull, because NEC wanted large parking fees, with only meagre 'incentives' for clearing the hall by 5.30. At the lace event they kept hearing from women that their other halves were struggling to get into NEC for Warley. There appears to be quite an affinity between needlecrafts and model engineering (and male lace-makers and female loco builders show it works both ways). So why not a combined event?

                              I'm with Don on separating trade from layouts/demonstrations, by the way. I probably spent more time at the trade stands than at layouts, and I don't think separation would change that.

                              David H


                              To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.comFrom: john.1.smith@...: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 10:03:36 +0000Subject: Re: [7mm NGA] To John C Smith - Re: Wigan not Warley




                              Greetings Don,Don't worry, no offence was taken at all, I just felt that it might be helpful to give a bit of insight into the problems etc. that we sometimes face!I agree that perhaps it was difficult to navigate but again one has to strike a balance, for instance all the traders who book shell stands are grouped around the perimeter as the back of these stands form the "wall" of the hall. In some cases we try to keep specialist traders near to the specialist layouts and enthusiasts they serve it but, like the best laid plans of mice and men, it doesn't always work! We try to please the majority of our visitors, and let's face it, if they don't like it they are going to vote by their feet next year, so we hope we get it somewhere near as right as we can get it!Coming back to the problem of logistics that I mentioned in my earlier post, Warley is one of the few shows in the country where all exhibitors and traders can drive their vehicles into the exhibition hall, right up to their pitch to unload their layout/stock, (no carrying heavy layouts long distances!), Hall 5 had several vehicular access doors, the show closed at 5pm on Sunday and by 6-30, with one or two exceptions the hall was completely clear. In the crowded NEC complex, getting those vehicles in the right place at the right time takes a bit of organising!HOPE TO SEE YOU ALL THERE NEXT YEAR!John.----- From: Don Mason To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 6:27 PMSubject: [7mm NGA] To John C Smith - Re: Wigan not WarleyThanks to John C Smith for an excellent post.I hope John, you didn't take my original comment the wrong way.....All of the points you made were extremely valid and all of the advantages you listed certainly worked out extremely well.The hall was much less crowded than usual, with plenty of aisle spce, etc ....which was very welcome, as were all of the other facilities 'en-suite', as it were.All in all, a first-class effort from everyone concerned at the Warley Club.However, I still think it was difficult to navigate this year for some reason - at first glance, most of the layouts seemed to be in one place and most of the trade in another - but then it went wrong, with other odd traders dotted about all over the place, mixed in with layouts, demos, etc. I had great difficulty in finding some of my 'regular visits' this year.Personally, I would much prefer to go the USA way and keep layouts and trade well apart. That way, those who want to look at layouts can do so in peace, whilst those who would rather spend all day buying can also do so, without getting in each other's way.But well done again for a 'spiffing' event overall, as they used to say at public school !![Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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                            • Bob Prewett
                              FYI. it s similar here in Oz. Many of wives/partners are into craftwork, needlework, cross stitch, quilting, etc. At the last 2 australian narrow gauge
                              Message 14 of 16 , Dec 6, 2007
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                                FYI. it's similar here in Oz. Many of wives/partners are into craftwork, needlework, cross stitch, quilting, etc. At the last 2 australian narrow gauge conventions there's been concurrent craft sessions for wives/partners too.

                                snip < At the lace event they kept hearing from women that their other halves
                                were struggling to get into NEC for Warley. There appears to be quite an
                                affinity between needlecrafts and model engineering (and male lace-makers
                                and female loco builders show it works both ways). So why not a combined
                                event? >
                                >

                                Bob P

                                ----- Original Message ----
                                From: David Hughes <formerchurchwarden@...>
                                To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Thursday, 6 December, 2007 9:50:55 PM
                                Subject: RE: [7mm NGA] To John C Smith - Re: Wigan not Warley


                                I'm glad there's been such a wide variety of opinions aired on Warley (and Wigan). For what it's worth, this was my first visit to Warley, and I think I'll go again. However what I've learned is that Warley really deserves if not to be visited both days, then at least for a full day. I arrived 12.30 on Sunday and left as it closed, and this wasn't enough. I didn't even manage to visit the 7mmNGA stand, for shame!

                                I was encouraged to go by my L&B partner-in-crime, Steve. His better half runs a lace-making business and they came across Warley because for many years they've shared NEC as a venue, same weekend as a Midlands lace event. This year the lace event switched to Cranmore Park in Solihull, because NEC wanted large parking fees, with only meagre 'incentives' for clearing the hall by 5.30. At the lace event they kept hearing from women that their other halves were struggling to get into NEC for Warley. There appears to be quite an affinity between needlecrafts and model engineering (and male lace-makers and female loco builders show it works both ways). So why not a combined event?

                                I'm with Don on separating trade from layouts/demonstrati ons, by the way. I probably spent more time at the trade stands than at layouts, and I don't think separation would change that.

                                David H

                                To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups. comFrom: john.1.smith@ blueyonder. co.ukDate: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 10:03:36 +0000Subject: Re: [7mm NGA] To John C Smith - Re: Wigan not Warley

                                Greetings Don,Don't worry, no offence was taken at all, I just felt that it might be helpful to give a bit of insight into the problems etc. that we sometimes face!I agree that perhaps it was difficult to navigate but again one has to strike a balance, for instance all the traders who book shell stands are grouped around the perimeter as the back of these stands form the "wall" of the hall.. In some cases we try to keep specialist traders near to the specialist layouts and enthusiasts they serve it but, like the best laid plans of mice and men, it doesn't always work! We try to please the majority of our visitors, and let's face it, if they don't like it they are going to vote by their feet next year, so we hope we get it somewhere near as right as we can get it!Coming back to the problem of logistics that I mentioned in my earlier post, Warley is one of the few shows in the country where all exhibitors and traders can drive their vehicles into the
                                exhibition hall, right up to their pitch to unload their layout/stock, (no carrying heavy layouts long distances!), Hall 5 had several vehicular access doors, the show closed at 5pm on Sunday and by 6-30, with one or two exceptions the hall was completely clear. In the crowded NEC complex, getting those vehicles in the right place at the right time takes a bit of organising!HOPE TO SEE YOU ALL THERE NEXT YEAR!John.-- --- From: Don Mason To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups. com Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 6:27 PMSubject: [7mm NGA] To John C Smith - Re: Wigan not WarleyThanks to John C Smith for an excellent post.I hope John, you didn't take my original comment the wrong way.....All of the points you made were extremely valid and all of the advantages you listed certainly worked out extremely well.The hall was much less crowded than usual, with plenty of aisle spce, etc ....which was very welcome, as were all of the other facilities 'en-suite', as it were.All
                                in all, a first-class effort from everyone concerned at the Warley Club.However, I still think it was difficult to navigate this year for some reason - at first glance, most of the layouts seemed to be in one place and most of the trade in another - but then it went wrong, with other odd traders dotted about all over the place, mixed in with layouts, demos, etc. I had great difficulty in finding some of my 'regular visits' this year.Personally, I would much prefer to go the USA way and keep layouts and trade well apart.. That way, those who want to look at layouts can do so in peace, whilst those who would rather spend all day buying can also do so, without getting in each other's way.But well done again for a 'spiffing' event overall, as they used to say at public school !![Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                              • Nicholas Tozer
                                ... As a trader I must say that arrangement would be a nightmare! Experience has shown that where we are seperated from the layouts then sales plummet ... and
                                Message 15 of 16 , Dec 6, 2007
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                                  > Personally, I would much prefer to go the USA way and keep layouts
                                  > and trade well apart. That way, those who want to look at layouts
                                  > can do so in peace, whilst those who would rather spend all day
                                  > buying can also do so, without getting in each other's way.
                                  >

                                  As a trader I must say that arrangement would be a nightmare!
                                  Experience has shown that where we are seperated from the layouts then
                                  sales plummet ... and when you realise how much we have to sell just
                                  to break even in these days of ever increasing stall fees that is not
                                  good! Only a percentage of customers actually set out from home
                                  knowing that they want to buy an item from me but when they have to
                                  pass me en route to the next layout then they often stop and browse
                                  ... and then sometimes they buy something! Now that may sound
                                  mercenary but if I don't make enough to make my attendance viable then
                                  I have to make big decisions regarding my future attendance at an
                                  exhibition ... and if traders aren't there to pay stall fees then a)
                                  who will pay for the layout expenses and Hall hire and b)how will the
                                  percentage who go to exhibitions mainly to examine/choose their
                                  goodies from the stalls feel?

                                  Regards

                                  Nick
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