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Re: [7mm NGA] Greetings

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  • Howard Clarke
    Dan Sprung buffers on Narrow gauge industrial types of rolling stock was/is a bit of a luxury, most slate and mineral wagons on the Festiniog Railway are Dumb
    Message 1 of 28 , Oct 3, 2007
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      Dan
      Sprung buffers on Narrow gauge industrial types of rolling stock was/is a bit of a luxury, most slate and mineral wagons on the Festiniog Railway are 'Dumb buffered', the coupling being a simple hook and loop.
      If you are using a centre coupling such as a chopper then any springing would be built into the coupling.
      Regards
      Howard 215
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: dan razauskas
      To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 11:37 PM
      Subject: RE: [7mm NGA] Greetings



      Hi Howard,Thanks again. It's all very different from American pratice, the lights and whistles etc., but a little less puzzling now. Can you or anyone tell me anything about "dumb" buffers? I'd like to know if they were outlawed on NG light railways and tramways that didn't interchange equipment with another line, or for that matter, even if they did. Narrow gauge only, please. I read somewhere that the "wide gauges" stopped using them around the time of WW1 or the 20's or so. Am I allowed to have them on a NG line in the late 20's or early 30's?

      To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.comFrom: clarke@...: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 15:03:20 +0100Subject: Re: [7mm NGA] Greetings

      Hi DanI would expect that most narrow gauge trains in the UK ran in daylight hours only with a few exceptions that had a full passenger service so lamps would not be very important, I seen a photograph where the "Tail Lamp" was a wooden plaque hung on the end of a train that said "LAST VEHICLE". I would imagine the majority of industrial narrow lines never bothered with headlamps or taillamps.Whistles - When I worked on BR as a locoman a short pop on the whistle was always used before a locomotive was moved, same applied as a driver got the 'Right away' from the guard to leave a passenger station. On the line a single blast was used wherever whistle signs were placed alongside the track, usually approaching level crossings, entering a station or tunnel or if men were working alongside the line. On the Midland lines in the Peak District of Derbyshire we also whistles for route selection approaching junctions, one long and one short for going right, one long and two short for going left sounded at the signal box before the junction. Whistles were used where a banking locomotive had arrived behind a train and was ready to assist the train up an incline, usually a series of pops and blasts, finally the one nobody wanted to use was series of three pops continuously (Danger whistle) was an indication of a train running away, unfortunately this happened quite often where I worked in the Peak District with heavy loose coupled freight trains, many a locoman thanked god for fully braked trains of all classes.Howard 215----- Original Message ----- From: dan razauskas To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 10:46 PMSubject: RE: [7mm NGA] GreetingsThanks to everyone for your responses. Most enlightening. Howard, your response raises another question about lights; on narrow gauge lines, was the back of the train marked and if it was, what colour(s) were used. I'm assuming the lights at the front of the train were white. Also, since we now have sound to play...oops, Work with, are there standard whistle signals on British railways? To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.comFrom: clarke@...: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 19:25:09 +0100Subject: Re: [7mm NGA] GreetingsHi DanWelcome to the foldMost of what Frank and Michael have already replied is correct.Some early railways in the UK had trackwork that ran alongside public roads and were referred to as tramways, this meant that all the locomotives had to have all the working parts and motion (Valve gear) boxed in, the Wisbech & Upwell is a perfect example albeit it was standard gauge.As an ex-railwayman the rule book definition of a train is "Anything between a headlamp and a taillamp", on most narrow gauge lines this would only apply to railways that operated a passenger service.As for black engines, I hate them, I spent 13 years working on grimy black engines with BR and loved polishing and firing the gleaming green and red engines when I volunteered on the Festiniog. Most of my model locomotives are either Great Eastern Royal Blue lined in red or Southern Railway Dark Olive Green lined out in white.Happy ModellingHoward Clarke215----- Original Message ----- From: dan razauskas To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 10:27 PMSubject: [7mm NGA] GreetingsI'm an American model railroader working in On30. I have a growing interest in British narrow gauge, and I have some questions about prototype terminology and practice that are different from American use. I'll be grateful if anyone can help. Thank you in advance for time and effort.Is there a difference between a "tramway" and a "light railway", and if so, what is it?In narrow gauge practice, are lamps on locomotives used to indicate the class of a train as they do on standard gauge locomotives-- meaning different placement of the lamp(s) means a different class of train?Most American railroads were painting locomotives black from the early years of the 20th century on. However the model press will sometimes show locomotives in several different paint schemes. Was this sometimes done on narrow gauge lines, or is this a form of modellers license? (Does anyone get the feeling I'm tired of black locomotives?)Lastly, does anyone know if there was a standard length of rail in the early years of the 20th century? Prior to the use of welded in America, rail came from the steelworks in lengths that were about one foot shorter than freight cars in common use at the time, e.g. 39' lengths when freight cars were 40', 33' lengths when many cars were 34'. No overhang that way. But British equipment is much shorter than American, so, any known standards?I'm most familiar with railroads, both narrow and standard gauge in the mid-atlantic states, I'll be happy to try to answer questions about American railroads, if anyone has any.thanks again,Dan__________________________________________________________Gear up for Halo® 3 with free downloads and an exclusive offer. http://gethalo3gear.com?ocid=SeptemberWLHalo3_MSNHMTxt_1This group is:1 - for people interested in modelling narrow gauge railways in 7mm:1ft scale or thereabouts2 - not restricted to members of the 7mm Narrow Gauge Association although membership of said organisation is thoroughly recommended3 - moderated by current serving members of the 7mm Narrow Gauge Association committee Yahoo! Groups Links-- No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.15/1003 - Release Date: 12/09/2007 10:56[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __________________________________________________________Connect to the next generation of MSN Messenger http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=wlmailtagline[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]----------------------------------------------------------No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.33/1036 - Release Date: 28/09/2007 15:40[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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    • dan razauskas
      Thank you for the info. Buffers are just one more thing we don t have on my side of the pond. To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.comFrom: geoffloynes@yahoo.comDate: Wed, 3
      Message 2 of 28 , Oct 3, 2007
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        Thank you for the info. Buffers are just one more thing we don't have on my side of the pond.


        To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.comFrom: geoffloynes@...: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 16:03:14 +0000Subject: [7mm NGA] Dumb buffers




        These were not banned on narrow gauge lines like they were on the standard gauge. Wagons of this type are still in use on the Corris and Talyllyn Railways, some historic and some brought in from elsewhere and modified for use in preservation.Geoff






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      • dan razauskas
        Thank you for the info. Buffers are just one more thing we don t have on my side of the pond. To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.comFrom: geoffloynes@yahoo.comDate: Wed, 3
        Message 3 of 28 , Oct 3, 2007
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          Thank you for the info. Buffers are just one more thing we don't have on my side of the pond.


          To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.comFrom: geoffloynes@...: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 16:03:14 +0000Subject: [7mm NGA] Dumb buffers




          These were not banned on narrow gauge lines like they were on the standard gauge. Wagons of this type are still in use on the Corris and Talyllyn Railways, some historic and some brought in from elsewhere and modified for use in preservation.Geoff






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        • dan razauskas
          Thank you for the info. Buffers are just one more thing we don t have on my side of the pond. To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.comFrom: geoffloynes@yahoo.comDate: Wed, 3
          Message 4 of 28 , Oct 3, 2007
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            Thank you for the info. Buffers are just one more thing we don't have on my side of the pond.


            To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.comFrom: geoffloynes@...: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 16:03:14 +0000Subject: [7mm NGA] Dumb buffers




            These were not banned on narrow gauge lines like they were on the standard gauge. Wagons of this type are still in use on the Corris and Talyllyn Railways, some historic and some brought in from elsewhere and modified for use in preservation.Geoff






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          • Brian Rumary
            ... Dumb buffers on locos were still being used on many standard gauge railways up to the end of steam and even later. However these were always on shunting
            Message 5 of 28 , Oct 3, 2007
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              Dan razauskas wrote:

              > Hi Howard,Thanks again. It's all very different from American
              > pratice, the lights and whistles etc., but a little less puzzling
              > now. Can you or anyone tell me anything about "dumb" buffers? I'd
              > like to know if they were outlawed on NG light railways and tramways
              > that didn't interchange equipment with another line, or for that
              > matter, even if they did. Narrow gauge only, please. I read
              > somewhere that the "wide gauges" stopped using them around the time
              > of WW1 or the 20's or so. Am I allowed to have them on a NG line in
              > the late 20's or early 30's?
              >
              Dumb buffers on locos were still being used on many standard gauge
              railways up to the end of steam and even later. However these were
              always on shunting locos, such as those in docks, etc. As far as I know
              dumb buffers finished on mainline locos in the 19th century. Dumb
              buffers were once common on wagons, especially coal wagons, but their
              use on the mainline was banned around 1900. However they continued to
              be used internally on industrial railway systems for much longer.

              As for narrow gauge lines, I don't think their use has ever been
              specifically banned.

              Brian Rumary, England

              www.rumary.co.uk
            • Nicholas Burman
              On common carrier lines, that is. There were quite a few industrials in the USA which used buffers - the Pennsylvania anthracite mines are one group which
              Message 6 of 28 , Oct 3, 2007
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                On common carrier lines, that is. There were quite a few industrials in
                the USA which used buffers - the Pennsylvania anthracite mines are one
                group which comes to mind.

                Cheers Nicholas


                dan razauskas wrote:
                >
                >
                > Thank you for the info. Buffers are just one more thing we don't have
                > on my side of the pond.
                >
                > To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:7mmnga%40yahoogroups.comFrom>:
                > geoffloynes@... <mailto:geoffloynes%40yahoo.comDate>: Wed, 3
                > Oct 2007 16:03:14 +0000Subject: [7mm NGA] Dumb buffers
                >
                > These were not banned on narrow gauge lines like they were on the
                > standard gauge. Wagons of this type are still in use on the Corris and
                > Talyllyn Railways, some historic and some brought in from elsewhere
                > and modified for use in preservation.Geoff
                >
                > __________________________________________________________
                > Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You!
                > http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us
                > <http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us>
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
              • dan razauskas
                Nicholas, Thanks, that s a nice tid-bit of info. I d only seen photos showing link and pin couplings. To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.comFrom:
                Message 7 of 28 , Oct 4, 2007
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                  Nicholas,
                  Thanks, that's a nice tid-bit of info. I'd only seen photos showing link and pin couplings.


                  To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.comFrom: burman.nicholas@...: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 22:33:07 -0300Subject: Re: [7mm NGA] Dumb buffers




                  On common carrier lines, that is. There were quite a few industrials in the USA which used buffers - the Pennsylvania anthracite mines are one group which comes to mind.Cheers Nicholasdan razauskas wrote:>>> Thank you for the info. Buffers are just one more thing we don't have > on my side of the pond.>> To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.comFrom <mailto:7mmnga%40yahoogroups.comFrom>: > geoffloynes@... <mailto:geoffloynes%40yahoo.comDate>: Wed, 3 > Oct 2007 16:03:14 +0000Subject: [7mm NGA] Dumb buffers>> These were not banned on narrow gauge lines like they were on the > standard gauge. Wagons of this type are still in use on the Corris and > Talyllyn Railways, some historic and some brought in from elsewhere > and modified for use in preservation.Geoff>> __________________________________________________________> Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You!> http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us > <http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]>>






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                • Brian Rumary
                  ... Train crews on sugar cane railways in the tropics often stuck a length cane vertically in the last wagon. The crew could see this from the cab and so would
                  Message 8 of 28 , Oct 4, 2007
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                    Geoffloynes wrote:

                    > Tail boards or 'last vehicle' boards were certainly used on some
                    > Irish NG lines and the Talyllyn (which still uses them, in the form
                    > of a red oval board with 'LV' in white letters)
                    >
                    Train crews on sugar cane railways in the tropics often stuck a length
                    cane vertically in the last wagon. The crew could see this from the cab
                    and so would know if there had been a breakaway! Crude but effective!

                    Brian Rumary, England

                    www.rumary.co.uk
                  • The Evisons
                    I ve seen the same thing on the peat bog railways of Ireland (Bord na Mona), except they used branches of bushes, sugar cane being a bit rare in those parts.
                    Message 9 of 28 , Oct 4, 2007
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                      I've seen the same thing on the peat bog railways of Ireland (Bord na Mona), except they used branches of bushes, sugar cane being a bit rare in those parts.

                      Regards, Julian

                      Julian Evison
                      Woking, UK
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Brian Rumary
                      To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 3:04 PM
                      Subject: Re: [7mm NGA] Tail Lamps


                      Geoffloynes wrote:

                      > Tail boards or 'last vehicle' boards were certainly used on some
                      > Irish NG lines and the Talyllyn (which still uses them, in the form
                      > of a red oval board with 'LV' in white letters)
                      >
                      Train crews on sugar cane railways in the tropics often stuck a length
                      cane vertically in the last wagon. The crew could see this from the cab
                      and so would know if there had been a breakaway! Crude but effective!

                      Brian Rumary, England

                      www.rumary.co.uk





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • dan razauskas
                      Howard, I m a yankee, but I like the look of buffers. So I m thinking buffers, mixed sprung and not sprung and kadees, only because they re compatable with
                      Message 10 of 28 , Oct 8, 2007
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                        Howard,
                        I'm a yankee, but I like the look of buffers. So I'm thinking buffers, mixed sprung and not sprung and kadees, only because they're compatable with everything here and they're reliable. Also everyone here knows how to use them.

                        Dan


                        To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.comFrom: clarke@...: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 10:26:05 +0100Subject: Re: [7mm NGA] Greetings




                        DanSprung buffers on Narrow gauge industrial types of rolling stock was/is a bit of a luxury, most slate and mineral wagons on the Festiniog Railway are 'Dumb buffered', the coupling being a simple hook and loop. If you are using a centre coupling such as a chopper then any springing would be built into the coupling.RegardsHoward 215----- Original Message ----- From: dan razauskas To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 11:37 PMSubject: RE: [7mm NGA] GreetingsHi Howard,Thanks again. It's all very different from American pratice, the lights and whistles etc., but a little less puzzling now. Can you or anyone tell me anything about "dumb" buffers? I'd like to know if they were outlawed on NG light railways and tramways that didn't interchange equipment with another line, or for that matter, even if they did. Narrow gauge only, please. I read somewhere that the "wide gauges" stopped using them around the time of WW1 or the 20's or so. Am I allowed to have them on a NG line in the late 20's or early 30's?To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.comFrom: clarke@...: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 15:03:20 +0100Subject: Re: [7mm NGA] GreetingsHi DanI would expect that most narrow gauge trains in the UK ran in daylight hours only with a few exceptions that had a full passenger service so lamps would not be very important, I seen a photograph where the "Tail Lamp" was a wooden plaque hung on the end of a train that said "LAST VEHICLE". I would imagine the majority of industrial narrow lines never bothered with headlamps or taillamps.Whistles - When I worked on BR as a locoman a short pop on the whistle was always used before a locomotive was moved, same applied as a driver got the 'Right away' from the guard to leave a passenger station. On the line a single blast was used wherever whistle signs were placed alongside the track, usually approaching level crossings, entering a station or tunnel or if men were working alongside the line. On the Midland lines in the Peak District of Derbyshire we also whistles for route selection approaching junctions, one long and one short for going right, one long and two short for going left sounded at the signal box before the junction. Whistles were used where a banking locomotive had arrived behind a train and was ready to assist the train up an incline, usually a series of pops and blasts, finally the one nobody wanted to use was series of three pops continuously (Danger whistle) was an indication of a train running away, unfortunately this happened quite often where I worked in the Peak District with heavy loose coupled freight trains, many a locoman thanked god for fully braked trains of all classes.Howard 215----- Original Message ----- From: dan razauskas To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 10:46 PMSubject: RE: [7mm NGA] GreetingsThanks to everyone for your responses. Most enlightening. Howard, your response raises another question about lights; on narrow gauge lines, was the back of the train marked and if it was, what colour(s) were used. I'm assuming the lights at the front of the train were white. Also, since we now have sound to play...oops, Work with, are there standard whistle signals on British railways? To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.comFrom: clarke@...: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 19:25:09 +0100Subject: Re: [7mm NGA] GreetingsHi DanWelcome to the foldMost of what Frank and Michael have already replied is correct.Some early railways in the UK had trackwork that ran alongside public roads and were referred to as tramways, this meant that all the locomotives had to have all the working parts and motion (Valve gear) boxed in, the Wisbech & Upwell is a perfect example albeit it was standard gauge.As an ex-railwayman the rule book definition of a train is "Anything between a headlamp and a taillamp", on most narrow gauge lines this would only apply to railways that operated a passenger service.As for black engines, I hate them, I spent 13 years working on grimy black engines with BR and loved polishing and firing the gleaming green and red engines when I volunteered on the Festiniog. Most of my model locomotives are either Great Eastern Royal Blue lined in red or Southern Railway Dark Olive Green lined out in white.Happy ModellingHoward Clarke215----- Original Message ----- From: dan razauskas To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 10:27 PMSubject: [7mm NGA] GreetingsI'm an American model railroader working in On30. I have a growing interest in British narrow gauge, and I have some questions about prototype terminology and practice that are different from American use. I'll be grateful if anyone can help. Thank you in advance for time and effort.Is there a difference between a "tramway" and a "light railway", and if so, what is it?In narrow gauge practice, are lamps on locomotives used to indicate the class of a train as they do on standard gauge locomotives-- meaning different placement of the lamp(s) means a different class of train?Most American railroads were painting locomotives black from the early years of the 20th century on. However the model press will sometimes show locomotives in several different paint schemes. Was this sometimes done on narrow gauge lines, or is this a form of modellers license? (Does anyone get the feeling I'm tired of black locomotives?)Lastly, does anyone know if there was a standard length of rail in the early years of the 20th century? Prior to the use of welded in America, rail came from the steelworks in lengths that were about one foot shorter than freight cars in common use at the time, e.g. 39' lengths when freight cars were 40', 33' lengths when many cars were 34'. No overhang that way. But British equipment is much shorter than American, so, any known standards?I'm most familiar with railroads, both narrow and standard gauge in the mid-atlantic states, I'll be happy to try to answer questions about American railroads, if anyone has any.thanks again,Dan__________________________________________________________Gear up for Halo® 3 with free downloads and an exclusive offer. http://gethalo3gear.com?ocid=SeptemberWLHalo3_MSNHMTxt_1This group is:1 - for people interested in modelling narrow gauge railways in 7mm:1ft scale or thereabouts2 - not restricted to members of the 7mm Narrow Gauge Association although membership of said organisation is thoroughly recommended3 - moderated by current serving members of the 7mm Narrow Gauge Association committee Yahoo! Groups Links-- No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.15/1003 - Release Date: 12/09/2007 10:56[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __________________________________________________________Connect to the next generation of MSN Messenger http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=wlmailtagline[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]----------------------------------------------------------No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.33/1036 - Release Date: 28/09/2007 15:40[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __________________________________________________________Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Café. Stop by today.http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]----------------------------------------------------------No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.39/1044 - Release Date: 02/10/2007 11:10[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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                      • Ian Pither
                        Sorry completly forgot. A Happy New Year to all. Ian Pither
                        Message 11 of 28 , Jan 1, 2009
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                          Sorry completly forgot.
                          'A Happy New Year' to all.
                          Ian Pither
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