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RE: [7mm NGA] Re: Water Tanks

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  • Vincent Bradley
    Graham, I am loosely modeling the Ashover Light Railway with some Leighton Buzzard sand thrown in. I am really trying to see what sort plumbing was used to
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 25, 2007
      Graham,
      I am loosely modeling the Ashover Light Railway with some Leighton Buzzard
      sand thrown in. I am really trying to see what sort plumbing was used to
      release water into the tank on the engine that the driver/fireman operated.
      I notice that the filling spouts seem to be a hose unlike here in America
      where they are almost universally formed metal. I have settled on a
      rectangular tank. Were tanks open at the top or enclosed? For support I am
      going to model on one of the ALR ones which was later enclosed.
      Vincent

      -----Original Message-----
      From: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com [mailto:7mmnga@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
      narolines
      Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 8:41 AM
      To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [7mm NGA] Re: Water Tanks

      HI Vince - Frank is certainly right in that it does depend on what part
      of the country you're modelling, and that there were certainly more
      tanks on stone, brick or concrete bases than any other. But wooden-
      based water tanks were not unknown; there were certainly some in
      Colonel Stephens's empire (the K & ESR had some, I think) and there
      were other light railway lines where the tank was supported on a sort
      of pylon made up from sleeper timbers laid at right angles to form a
      very gradually tapering pyramidal structure. I haven't had time to sift
      through my bookshelves, but I'm sure there were others (if nothing
      else, my own Warwickshire Light Railway, set in the English Midlands,
      has one!) I'll try to find time to look for some examples over the next
      few days. Another way to go would be to use a metal base - often from
      surplus rail or heavy angle-iron.

      Graham



      This group is:
      1 - for people interested in modelling narrow gauge railways in 7mm:1ft
      scale or thereabouts
      2 - not restricted to members of the 7mm Narrow Gauge Association although
      membership of said organisation is thoroughly recommended
      3 - moderated by current serving members of the 7mm Narrow Gauge Association
      committee
      Yahoo! Groups Links
    • Frank Sharp
      Vincent, The hose, or bag as it was usually called, would be canvas if you were poor, and leather if affluent. A cloth shoe lace often does service for the
      Message 2 of 12 , Jan 25, 2007
        Vincent,



        The hose, or bag as it was usually called, would be canvas if you were poor,
        and leather if affluent. A cloth shoe lace often does service for the
        former, shrink on sleeving, if you can get the matt grey black version
        doesn't do too bad for leather. Several methods of controlling the water
        flow, simplest was a valve, usually a screw valve, on the outlet, the
        disadvantage of this being that the valve was exposed, liable to freeze and
        split. Main line water towers usually had a stove, a fire devil, under them,
        usually in the open. The other common way to control the flow was to have
        something rather like a domestic sink plug in the base of the tank, over the
        hose discharge. It would then be operated by a seesaw arm, with a chain down
        to the plug inside the tank, and a chain hanging outside. Pulling the
        outside chain lifted the plug. A weight, often a track chair, would be
        around to hang on the chain to save having to hold it. Many firemen got wet
        feet if the driver, who usually held the chain whilst the fireman held the
        bag in the filler, forgot or didn't come back in time.. The gain is that the
        plug is within the main tank and the hose empties completely, so frost isn't
        just as big a problem.



        On main lines the inlet pipe would have a valve on it rather like you toilet
        or water tank at home. They were usually paying for the water. Narrow gauge
        might have a similar system, but in several places water was from a spring
        or stream, and there was an overflow pipe into the nearest water course.
        Running water, especially that coming from underground rarely freezes, so if
        the inlet was at the bottom of the tank and obviously the overflow from the
        top, the water was continually being replenished, and that might reduce
        frost problems.



        On narrow gauge, make do and mend was often the order of the day. Pictures
        of locos on the Tal-y-llyn taking water which is being fed into the tank
        down an open length of guttering are well known.



        In the U.K. we are getting used to milder winters, but in the 1800's and to
        well part the first half of the 1900's it was not uncommon for quarries to
        close for several weeks in winter because of frost. The Welsh slate mills
        which were water wheel powered often had problems. They would also have
        problems in dry summers.



        Frank



        -----Original Message-----
        From: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com [mailto:7mmnga@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
        Vincent Bradley
        Sent: 25 January 2007 14:42
        To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [7mm NGA] Re: Water Tanks



        Graham,
        I am loosely modeling the Ashover Light Railway with some Leighton Buzzard
        sand thrown in. I am really trying to see what sort plumbing was used to
        release water into the tank on the engine that the driver/fireman operated.
        I notice that the filling spouts seem to be a hose unlike here in America
        where they are almost universally formed metal. I have settled on a
        rectangular tank. Were tanks open at the top or enclosed? For support I am
        going to model on one of the ALR ones which was later enclosed.
        Vincent

        -----Original Message-----
        From: 7mmnga@yahoogroups. <mailto:7mmnga%40yahoogroups.com> com
        [mailto:7mmnga@yahoogroups. <mailto:7mmnga%40yahoogroups.com> com] On Behalf
        Of
        narolines
        Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 8:41 AM
        To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups. <mailto:7mmnga%40yahoogroups.com> com
        Subject: [7mm NGA] Re: Water Tanks

        HI Vince - Frank is certainly right in that it does depend on what part
        of the country you're modelling, and that there were certainly more
        tanks on stone, brick or concrete bases than any other. But wooden-
        based water tanks were not unknown; there were certainly some in
        Colonel Stephens's empire (the K & ESR had some, I think) and there
        were other light railway lines where the tank was supported on a sort
        of pylon made up from sleeper timbers laid at right angles to form a
        very gradually tapering pyramidal structure. I haven't had time to sift
        through my bookshelves, but I'm sure there were others (if nothing
        else, my own Warwickshire Light Railway, set in the English Midlands,
        has one!) I'll try to find time to look for some examples over the next
        few days. Another way to go would be to use a metal base - often from
        surplus rail or heavy angle-iron.

        Graham

        This group is:
        1 - for people interested in modelling narrow gauge railways in 7mm:1ft
        scale or thereabouts
        2 - not restricted to members of the 7mm Narrow Gauge Association although
        membership of said organisation is thoroughly recommended
        3 - moderated by current serving members of the 7mm Narrow Gauge Association
        committee
        Yahoo! Groups Links





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • vannerley
        A quirky exception - in this as so much else - is the Sittingbourne & Kemsley/Bowater Light Rly. The paper mill to which the line belonged has its own high
        Message 3 of 12 , Jan 26, 2007
          A quirky exception - in this as so much else - is the Sittingbourne &
          Kemsley/Bowater Light Rly.

          The paper mill to which the line belonged has its own high pressure
          water supply (from bore holes at Senora Field to the SW of the mill) so
          the locos were (and are) watered direct from stand pipes of the sort
          seen on the standard gauge: essentially a 4" pipe with a curved top and
          flexible hose.

          I wonder if the people who live in the houses that have now been built
          all over Senora Field realise what is under the homes ...

          2284
          David Vannerley
        • Vincent Bradley
          ... From: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com [mailto:7mmnga@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Frank Sharp Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 2:31 PM To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
          Message 4 of 12 , Jan 26, 2007
            -----Original Message-----
            From: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com [mailto:7mmnga@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
            Frank Sharp
            Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 2:31 PM
            To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [7mm NGA] Re: Water Tanks

            Vincent,



            The hose, or bag as it was usually called, would be canvas if you were poor,
            and leather if affluent. A cloth shoe lace often does service for the
            former, shrink on sleeving, if you can get the matt grey black version
            doesn't do too bad for leather. Several methods of controlling the water
            flow, simplest was a valve, usually a screw valve, on the outlet, the
            disadvantage of this being that the valve was exposed, liable to freeze and
            split. Main line water towers usually had a stove, a fire devil, under them,
            usually in the open. The other common way to control the flow was to have
            something rather like a domestic sink plug in the base of the tank, over the
            hose discharge. It would then be operated by a seesaw arm, with a chain down
            to the plug inside the tank, and a chain hanging outside. Pulling the
            outside chain lifted the plug. A weight, often a track chair, would be
            around to hang on the chain to save having to hold it. Many firemen got wet
            feet if the driver, who usually held the chain whilst the fireman held the
            bag in the filler, forgot or didn't come back in time.. The gain is that the
            plug is within the main tank and the hose empties completely, so frost isn't
            just as big a problem.



            On main lines the inlet pipe would have a valve on it rather like you toilet
            or water tank at home. They were usually paying for the water. Narrow gauge
            might have a similar system, but in several places water was from a spring
            or stream, and there was an overflow pipe into the nearest water course.
            Running water, especially that coming from underground rarely freezes, so if
            the inlet was at the bottom of the tank and obviously the overflow from the
            top, the water was continually being replenished, and that might reduce
            frost problems.



            On narrow gauge, make do and mend was often the order of the day. Pictures
            of locos on the Tal-y-llyn taking water which is being fed into the tank
            down an open length of guttering are well known.



            In the U.K. we are getting used to milder winters, but in the 1800's and to
            well part the first half of the 1900's it was not uncommon for quarries to
            close for several weeks in winter because of frost. The Welsh slate mills
            which were water wheel powered often had problems. They would also have
            problems in dry summers.



            Frank



            -----Original Message-----
            From: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com [mailto:7mmnga@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
            Vincent Bradley
            Sent: 25 January 2007 14:42
            To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [7mm NGA] Re: Water Tanks



            Graham,
            I am loosely modeling the Ashover Light Railway with some Leighton Buzzard
            sand thrown in. I am really trying to see what sort plumbing was used to
            release water into the tank on the engine that the driver/fireman operated.
            I notice that the filling spouts seem to be a hose unlike here in America
            where they are almost universally formed metal. I have settled on a
            rectangular tank. Were tanks open at the top or enclosed? For support I am
            going to model on one of the ALR ones which was later enclosed.
            Vincent

            -----Original Message-----
            From: 7mmnga@yahoogroups. <mailto:7mmnga%40yahoogroups.com> com
            [mailto:7mmnga@yahoogroups. <mailto:7mmnga%40yahoogroups.com> com] On Behalf
            Of
            narolines
            Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 8:41 AM
            To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups. <mailto:7mmnga%40yahoogroups.com> com
            Subject: [7mm NGA] Re: Water Tanks

            HI Vince - Frank is certainly right in that it does depend on what part
            of the country you're modelling, and that there were certainly more
            tanks on stone, brick or concrete bases than any other. But wooden-
            based water tanks were not unknown; there were certainly some in
            Colonel Stephens's empire (the K & ESR had some, I think) and there
            were other light railway lines where the tank was supported on a sort
            of pylon made up from sleeper timbers laid at right angles to form a
            very gradually tapering pyramidal structure. I haven't had time to sift
            through my bookshelves, but I'm sure there were others (if nothing
            else, my own Warwickshire Light Railway, set in the English Midlands,
            has one!) I'll try to find time to look for some examples over the next
            few days. Another way to go would be to use a metal base - often from
            surplus rail or heavy angle-iron.

            Graham

            This group is:
            1 - for people interested in modelling narrow gauge railways in 7mm:1ft
            scale or thereabouts
            2 - not restricted to members of the 7mm Narrow Gauge Association although
            membership of said organisation is thoroughly recommended
            3 - moderated by current serving members of the 7mm Narrow Gauge Association
            committee
            Yahoo! Groups Links





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



            This group is:
            1 - for people interested in modelling narrow gauge railways in 7mm:1ft
            scale or thereabouts
            2 - not restricted to members of the 7mm Narrow Gauge Association although
            membership of said organisation is thoroughly recommended
            3 - moderated by current serving members of the 7mm Narrow Gauge Association
            committee
            Yahoo! Groups Links
          • Vincent Bradley
            Frank, This is exactly what I was looking for. I am planning on using a plug valve in the bottom of the tank and shrink tubing for the spout. I will be using
            Message 5 of 12 , Jan 26, 2007
              Frank,
              This is exactly what I was looking for. I am planning on using a plug valve
              in the bottom of the tank and shrink tubing for the spout. I will be using
              wood for the support structure.
              Thanks,
              Vincent

              -----Original Message-----
              From: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com [mailto:7mmnga@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
              Frank Sharp
              Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 2:31 PM
              To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [7mm NGA] Re: Water Tanks

              Vincent,



              The hose, or bag as it was usually called, would be canvas if you were poor,
              and leather if affluent. A cloth shoe lace often does service for the
              former, shrink on sleeving, if you can get the matt grey black version
              doesn't do too bad for leather. Several methods of controlling the water
              flow, simplest was a valve, usually a screw valve, on the outlet, the
              disadvantage of this being that the valve was exposed, liable to freeze and
              split. Main line water towers usually had a stove, a fire devil, under them,
              usually in the open. The other common way to control the flow was to have
              something rather like a domestic sink plug in the base of the tank, over the
              hose discharge. It would then be operated by a seesaw arm, with a chain down
              to the plug inside the tank, and a chain hanging outside. Pulling the
              outside chain lifted the plug. A weight, often a track chair, would be
              around to hang on the chain to save having to hold it. Many firemen got wet
              feet if the driver, who usually held the chain whilst the fireman held the
              bag in the filler, forgot or didn't come back in time.. The gain is that the
              plug is within the main tank and the hose empties completely, so frost isn't
              just as big a problem.



              On main lines the inlet pipe would have a valve on it rather like you toilet
              or water tank at home. They were usually paying for the water. Narrow gauge
              might have a similar system, but in several places water was from a spring
              or stream, and there was an overflow pipe into the nearest water course.
              Running water, especially that coming from underground rarely freezes, so if
              the inlet was at the bottom of the tank and obviously the overflow from the
              top, the water was continually being replenished, and that might reduce
              frost problems.



              On narrow gauge, make do and mend was often the order of the day. Pictures
              of locos on the Tal-y-llyn taking water which is being fed into the tank
              down an open length of guttering are well known.



              In the U.K. we are getting used to milder winters, but in the 1800's and to
              well part the first half of the 1900's it was not uncommon for quarries to
              close for several weeks in winter because of frost. The Welsh slate mills
              which were water wheel powered often had problems. They would also have
              problems in dry summers.



              Frank



              -----Original Message-----
              From: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com [mailto:7mmnga@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
              Vincent Bradley
              Sent: 25 January 2007 14:42
              To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [7mm NGA] Re: Water Tanks



              Graham,
              I am loosely modeling the Ashover Light Railway with some Leighton Buzzard
              sand thrown in. I am really trying to see what sort plumbing was used to
              release water into the tank on the engine that the driver/fireman operated.
              I notice that the filling spouts seem to be a hose unlike here in America
              where they are almost universally formed metal. I have settled on a
              rectangular tank. Were tanks open at the top or enclosed? For support I am
              going to model on one of the ALR ones which was later enclosed.
              Vincent

              -----Original Message-----
              From: 7mmnga@yahoogroups. <mailto:7mmnga%40yahoogroups.com> com
              [mailto:7mmnga@yahoogroups. <mailto:7mmnga%40yahoogroups.com> com] On Behalf
              Of
              narolines
              Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 8:41 AM
              To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups. <mailto:7mmnga%40yahoogroups.com> com
              Subject: [7mm NGA] Re: Water Tanks

              HI Vince - Frank is certainly right in that it does depend on what part
              of the country you're modelling, and that there were certainly more
              tanks on stone, brick or concrete bases than any other. But wooden-
              based water tanks were not unknown; there were certainly some in
              Colonel Stephens's empire (the K & ESR had some, I think) and there
              were other light railway lines where the tank was supported on a sort
              of pylon made up from sleeper timbers laid at right angles to form a
              very gradually tapering pyramidal structure. I haven't had time to sift
              through my bookshelves, but I'm sure there were others (if nothing
              else, my own Warwickshire Light Railway, set in the English Midlands,
              has one!) I'll try to find time to look for some examples over the next
              few days. Another way to go would be to use a metal base - often from
              surplus rail or heavy angle-iron.

              Graham

              This group is:
              1 - for people interested in modelling narrow gauge railways in 7mm:1ft
              scale or thereabouts
              2 - not restricted to members of the 7mm Narrow Gauge Association although
              membership of said organisation is thoroughly recommended
              3 - moderated by current serving members of the 7mm Narrow Gauge Association
              committee
              Yahoo! Groups Links





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



              This group is:
              1 - for people interested in modelling narrow gauge railways in 7mm:1ft
              scale or thereabouts
              2 - not restricted to members of the 7mm Narrow Gauge Association although
              membership of said organisation is thoroughly recommended
              3 - moderated by current serving members of the 7mm Narrow Gauge Association
              committee
              Yahoo! Groups Links
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