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Re: [7mmnga] Re: Magic Train Loco Conversions

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  • Jim Favre
    Using the Magic Train steamer you could build an Barclay without much effort at all since the Barclay used the Krauss design under license. The biggest
    Message 1 of 19 , Apr 6, 2004
      Using the "Magic Train" steamer you could build an Barclay without much effort at all since the Barclay used the Krauss design under license. The biggest issues would be to change the cab front and rear windows from square to round and adding front and rear pilot beams with sprung buffers and proper couplers. The caveat is the Barclay may have been built in England but still looks very German.

      The Magic Train mechanism is very nice but to get a British looking loco out of it you would probably find it easier to take a Smallbrook Works kit and drop it over the Fleischmann chassis. The Smallbrook Works kit would not require a great deal of modification and their footplate design would hide the Well Tank chassis.

      Cheers,
      Jim Favre jimfavre@...
      Dalton, Massachusetts
      7mmNGA Member No. 2745

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    • Michael Johnson
      Krauss and O&K locos were very common in the colonies , ie lots in Australia, and also many went to India. So anybody interested in mining or logging railways
      Message 2 of 19 , Apr 6, 2004
        Krauss and O&K locos were very common in the "colonies", ie lots in
        Australia, and also many went to India. So anybody interested in mining or
        logging railways could justifiably use one.

        In the Australian context you could quite justifiably mix German, British
        and American (esp geared) locos.

        Cheers,

        Michael
      • Alastair Inskip
        Richard, With some detailing the Magic Train could pass for a number of small well tank designs. There s a picture towards the back of Narrow Gauge Railways -
        Message 3 of 19 , Apr 6, 2004
          Richard,

          With some detailing the Magic Train could pass for a number of small well
          tank designs. There's a picture towards the back of "Narrow Gauge Railways -
          Two Feet and Under" by Robertson, showing an "E" class Andrew Barclay 0-4-0
          well tank almost the spitting image of the Magic Train, with the comments
          that "[s]everal British locomotive builders produced standard types of
          narrow gauge well tank closely based on contemporary Orenstein and Koppel
          designs". The Hudswell Clarke Class A also has some visual similarities to
          my eyes (fig 119, "Industrial Railways of the South-East", Middleton
          Press).

          There's a lot to be said for choice of paint colour, to me, black is generic
          and could be anywhere, olive green or light grey looks "continental" and
          maroon or "racing" green are UK (note, this is purely subjective and in no
          way represents a detailed study of international loco colour schemes.. .).

          Personally, I'm taking the route suggested by another respondent, inventing
          a legend has a O&K well tank imported (did O&K ever bring any across to
          exhibit/trial in the UK?). For detailing I'm upping the scale to 1/32-35
          (1f) and considering a cab replacement from:

          http://www.lokfuehrer-lukas.de/0%20Feldbahn%20Loks/FB-Lok-1/fb-lok-1-ub.htm


          Regards, Alastair

          PS The chassis runs well, it's easily converted to DCC, it breaks down into
          pieces easily, I'm surprised their aren't more conversion kits about.

          PPS One of the best conversions on the web is an 0-4-0-0-4-0 Garrett
          http://www.frankneubauer.de/garratt/garratte.htm#mbele


          -----Original Message-----
          From: richardconey [mailto:richardconey@...]
          Sent: 05 April 2004 20:58
          To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [7mmnga] Magic Train Loco Conversions


          With all this talk about Magic Trains, has anybody successfully
          Anglicised or Americanised their 0-4-0 steam locos, and taken
          pictures I can view? I'm sure I saw an article once which had nicely
          weathered Magic Train steamers in it, which look so much better than
          the pristine ones you buy. I've the green version with fully detailed
          valve gear. What needs changing to produce a believable UK or US well
          tank industrial loco? Does anybody do a conversion kit to convert
          them, or their chassis?

          Richard Coney
          #2710
          London
          England




          Yahoo! Groups Links
        • Mark Newton
          ... or US well tank industrial loco? Richard, I think you d be struggling to find a US-built well tank loco - you d do better building a saddle tank body for
          Message 4 of 19 , Apr 6, 2004
            --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "richardconey" <richardconey@f...> wrote:

            > With all this talk about Magic Trains, has anybody successfully
            > Anglicised or Americanised their 0-4-0 steam locos, and taken
            > pictures I can view?What needs changing to produce a believable UK
            or > US well tank industrial loco?

            Richard, I think you'd be struggling to find a US-built well tank loco
            - you'd do better building a saddle tank body for the Magic Train mech.

            Cheers,

            Mark.
          • B.Rumary
            ... There were some small narrow gauge 0-4-0 well-tanks in the UK (Andrew Barclay, Hudswell Clarke), so you _might_ be able to revamp the Magic Train loco to
            Message 5 of 19 , Apr 7, 2004
              Richardconey wrote:

              > With all this talk about Magic Trains, has anybody successfully
              > Anglicised or Americanised their 0-4-0 steam locos, and taken
              > pictures I can view?
              >
              There were some small narrow gauge 0-4-0 well-tanks in the UK (Andrew
              Barclay, Hudswell Clarke), so you _might_ be able to revamp the Magic
              Train loco to look reasonable. However none of the UK locos had outside
              Stephenson valve gear or that pattern of wheels.

              However trying to mark the Fleischmann loco *anything* like a US loco
              is just about impossible. A few German-built locos were imported into
              the US by railfans and tourist railroad operators, and several were "
              Americanised", with 'cow-catcher', balloon stack, etc., but they were
              not very convincing. The truth is there we *no* US-built locos that
              looked anything like this loco. The typical US "Dinky" had bar frames,
              saddle or side tanks, _inside_ Stephensons valve gear and spoked
              wheels. Everything about the Fleischmann loco is quite different; cab,
              frame, cylinders, tank, wheels, domes, stack, etc. To try to make this
              loco look convincingly American is like trying to make a kit of
              Concorde look like a World War I biplane!

              Brian Rumary, England

              http://freespace.virgin.net/brian.rumary/homepage.htm
            • Geoffrey Loynes
              From memory, the only German built NG industrial locos that were well known here were Penlee , a Freudenstein 0-4-0WT , located somewhere near Newlyn,
              Message 6 of 19 , Apr 9, 2004
                From memory, the only German built NG industrial locos that were well known here were 'Penlee', a Freudenstein 0-4-0WT , located somewhere near Newlyn, Cornwall, and 'Eigiau', the Penrhyn Oreinstein & Koppel 0-4-0WT. There may also have been a few in Eire

                Geoff



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              • Richard Coney
                Mark, I agree with you entirely. What I meant was a German well tank used on an American layout and modified by its American owners to more readily reflect
                Message 7 of 19 , Apr 9, 2004
                  Mark,

                  I agree with you entirely. What I meant was a German well tank used on an
                  American layout and modified by its American owners to more readily reflect
                  their taste in locos. Most locos get changed in some way throughout their
                  "lifetime" and in the industrial world seem to be done as cheaply as
                  possible using locally sourced parts where possible. I understand that
                  several small O&K locos were operated by US companies.

                  Incidentally, thanks everyone who has contributed on thie thread so far.

                  Richard
                  London
                  England
                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Mark Newton [mailto:mark_newton@...]
                  Sent: 06 April 2004 23:28
                  To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [7mmnga] Re: Magic Train Loco Conversions


                  --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "richardconey" <richardconey@f...> wrote:

                  > With all this talk about Magic Trains, has anybody successfully
                  > Anglicised or Americanised their 0-4-0 steam locos, and taken
                  > pictures I can view?What needs changing to produce a believable UK
                  or > US well tank industrial loco?

                  Richard, I think you'd be struggling to find a US-built well tank loco
                  - you'd do better building a saddle tank body for the Magic Train mech.

                  Cheers,

                  Mark.



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                • Mark Newton
                  ... on an ... reflect ... their ... Sorry, Richard, I had the bull by the horns! :-) I have seen one or two references to O&K locos in US, if I can find
                  Message 8 of 19 , Apr 9, 2004
                    --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Coney" <richardconey@f...> wrote:
                    > Mark,
                    >
                    > I agree with you entirely. What I meant was a German well tank used
                    on an
                    > American layout and modified by its American owners to more readily
                    reflect
                    > their taste in locos. Most locos get changed in some way throughout
                    their
                    > "lifetime" and in the industrial world seem to be done as cheaply as
                    > possible using locally sourced parts where possible. I understand that
                    > several small O&K locos were operated by US companies.

                    Sorry, Richard, I had the bull by the horns! :-)

                    I have seen one or two references to O&K locos in US, if I can find
                    anything useful I'll scan it and post a copy to the group files.

                    All the best,

                    Mark.
                  • wensleyshortline
                    ... Hi Richard, I ve just posted under Photos - Wensley Album, an Anglicised Bachmann Porter. Not my work but now one of my Locos which will sit well on
                    Message 9 of 19 , Apr 10, 2004
                      --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "richardconey" <richardconey@f...>
                      wrote:
                      > With all this talk about Magic Trains, has anybody successfully
                      > Anglicised or Americanised their 0-4-0 steam locos, and taken
                      > pictures I can view? >
                      > Richard Coney
                      > #2710
                      Hi Richard,
                      I've just posted under Photos - Wensley Album, an Anglicised Bachmann
                      Porter. Not my work but now one of my Locos which will sit well on
                      Felsham Road. Converted using the Bagnall Cab Wrightlines Kit with a
                      number of other significant changes that required the use of a
                      Milling Machine.
                      Cheers GerryB #2777
                      Essex,UK.
                    • B.Rumary
                      ... were Penlee , a Freudenstein 0-4-0WT , located somewhere near Newlyn, Cornwall, and Eigiau , the Penrhyn Oreinstein & Koppel 0-4-0WT. There may also
                      Message 10 of 19 , Apr 10, 2004
                        Geoffrey Loynes wrote:

                        > From memory, the only German built NG industrial locos that were well known here
                        were 'Penlee', a Freudenstein 0-4-0WT , located somewhere near Newlyn, Cornwall,
                        and 'Eigiau', the Penrhyn Oreinstein & Koppel 0-4-0WT. There may also have been a
                        few in Eire
                        >
                        There were quite a number of German-built narrow gauge steam and diesel locos sold
                        in the UK, although most had gone by the time many enthusiasts became interested
                        in such things.

                        As for Eire, the Irish sugar corporation had a number of O&K 0-4-0WTs at various
                        factories.

                        Brian Rumary, England

                        http://freespace.virgin.net/brian.rumary/homepage.htm
                      • David Leslie Taylor
                        The railway referred to by Geoffrey ran from Penlee Quarry to Newlyn Harbour, (about half a mile) Located a short distance west of Penzance in Cornwall. I
                        Message 11 of 19 , Apr 10, 2004
                          The railway referred to by Geoffrey ran from Penlee
                          Quarry to Newlyn Harbour, (about half a mile) Located a
                          short distance west of Penzance in Cornwall. I believe it
                          holds the distinction of being the most Westerly railway in
                          the whole of England, Scotland and Wales.
                          There is a brief article on it in "Railway Bylines"
                          volume 9, issue 1, December 2003. (Irwell Press) Featuring
                          three excellent photos of the locomotive. The text states
                          that it was built by A.Koppel of Berlin, and purchased new
                          by the quarry company around 1901. It was withdrawn circa
                          1946. it certainly looks a lot like the Magic Train loco,
                          with outside Stephenson valve-gear etc.
                          One of the photos, a three-quarter rear view, shows
                          the loco after withdrawl, with the cab bearing some
                          decidedly home-made modifications. (and some rather
                          excessive weathering!)
                          I hope this is of help.
                          Dave.T


                          On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:31:23 GMT "B.Rumary"
                          <brian.rumary@...> wrote:

                          > Geoffrey Loynes wrote:
                          >
                          > > From memory, the only German built NG industrial locos that were well known here
                          > were 'Penlee', a Freudenstein 0-4-0WT , located somewhere near Newlyn, Cornwall,
                          > and 'Eigiau', the Penrhyn Oreinstein & Koppel 0-4-0WT. There may also have been a
                          > few in Eire
                          > >
                          > There were quite a number of German-built narrow gauge steam and diesel locos sold
                          > in the UK, although most had gone by the time many enthusiasts became interested
                          > in such things.
                          >
                          > As for Eire, the Irish sugar corporation had a number of O&K 0-4-0WTs at various
                          > factories.
                          >
                          > Brian Rumary, England
                          >
                          > http://freespace.virgin.net/brian.rumary/homepage.htm
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >

                          ----------------------
                          David Leslie Taylor
                          University of Exeter
                        • B.Rumary
                          ... A. Koppel _never_ built any locos themselves - they always contracted out loco orders to other companies and then put their own Arthur Koppel plates on
                          Message 12 of 19 , Apr 12, 2004
                            David Leslie Taylor wrote:

                            > The text states
                            > that it was built by A.Koppel of Berlin, and purchased new
                            > by the quarry company around 1901.
                            >
                            A. Koppel _never_ built any locos themselves - they always contracted
                            out loco orders to other companies and then put their own "Arthur
                            Koppel" plates on them. The loco at Penlee has now been identified as
                            having been built by Freudenstein, a small German builder.

                            Arthur Koppel and Benno Orenstein went into business as Orenstein &
                            Koppel, who *did* actually build their own locos, but this was a
                            separate company to A.Koppel.

                            Brian Rumary, England

                            http://freespace.virgin.net/brian.rumary/homepage.htm
                          • chris.holmes2
                            If you want to see Penlee, go to Leighton Buzzard. It is not operational, but could often be seen at Pages Park on operating days. The loco was donated to the
                            Message 13 of 19 , Apr 12, 2004
                              If you want to see Penlee, go to Leighton Buzzard. It is not operational, but could often be seen at Pages Park on operating days. The loco was donated to the LBNGR by the operators of Penlee Quarries a few years ago.

                              Regards
                              Chris Holmes
                              7mmNGA Member No.42
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: David Leslie Taylor
                              To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
                              Cc: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 11:37 PM
                              Subject: [7mmnga] Magic Train Loco in Cornwall


                              The railway referred to by Geoffrey ran from Penlee
                              Quarry to Newlyn Harbour, (about half a mile) Located a
                              short distance west of Penzance in Cornwall. I believe it
                              holds the distinction of being the most Westerly railway in
                              the whole of England, Scotland and Wales.
                              There is a brief article on it in "Railway Bylines"
                              volume 9, issue 1, December 2003. (Irwell Press) Featuring
                              three excellent photos of the locomotive. The text states
                              that it was built by A.Koppel of Berlin, and purchased new
                              by the quarry company around 1901. It was withdrawn circa
                              1946. it certainly looks a lot like the Magic Train loco,
                              with outside Stephenson valve-gear etc.
                              One of the photos, a three-quarter rear view, shows
                              the loco after withdrawl, with the cab bearing some
                              decidedly home-made modifications. (and some rather
                              excessive weathering!)
                              I hope this is of help.
                              Dave.T


                              On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:31:23 GMT "B.Rumary"
                              <brian.rumary@...> wrote:

                              > Geoffrey Loynes wrote:
                              >
                              > > From memory, the only German built NG industrial locos that were well known here
                              > were 'Penlee', a Freudenstein 0-4-0WT , located somewhere near Newlyn, Cornwall,
                              > and 'Eigiau', the Penrhyn Oreinstein & Koppel 0-4-0WT. There may also have been a
                              > few in Eire
                              > >
                              > There were quite a number of German-built narrow gauge steam and diesel locos sold
                              > in the UK, although most had gone by the time many enthusiasts became interested
                              > in such things.
                              >
                              > As for Eire, the Irish sugar corporation had a number of O&K 0-4-0WTs at various
                              > factories.
                              >
                              > Brian Rumary, England
                              >
                              > http://freespace.virgin.net/brian.rumary/homepage.htm
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >

                              ----------------------
                              David Leslie Taylor
                              University of Exeter



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                            • adriangrayfr
                              ... operational, but could often be seen at Pages Park on operating days. The loco was donated to the LBNGR by the operators of Penlee Quarries a few years
                              Message 14 of 19 , Apr 12, 2004
                                --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "chris.holmes2" <chris.holmes2@n...>
                                wrote:
                                > If you want to see Penlee, go to Leighton Buzzard. It is not
                                operational, but could often be seen at Pages Park on operating days.
                                The loco was donated to the LBNGR by the operators of Penlee Quarries
                                a few years ago.
                                >
                                That's interesting, the last time I saw Penlee (too many years ago)
                                it was acting as a load on a well wagon at the GWR Society's Didcot
                                depot and looking more than a bit out of place.
                                I must have missed the move to Leighton Buzzard but did wonder where
                                it had gone, though I haven't been to Didcot for years.

                                Adrian - who lives almost midway between Didcot and Leighton Buzzard
                                but doesn't visit either often enough!
                              • Stephen John Griffiths
                                ... From: Jim Favre To: Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 12:08 PM Subject: Re: [7mmnga] Re: Magic Train
                                Message 15 of 19 , Apr 12, 2004
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: "Jim Favre" <jimfavre@...>
                                  To: <7mmnga@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 12:08 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [7mmnga] Re: Magic Train Loco Conversions


                                  > Using the "Magic Train" steamer you could build an Barclay without much
                                  effort at all since the Barclay used the Krauss design under license. The
                                  biggest issues would be to change the cab front and rear windows from square
                                  to round and adding front and rear pilot beams with sprung buffers and
                                  proper couplers. The caveat is the Barclay may have been built in England
                                  but still looks very German.
                                  >

                                  No Barclays were ever built in England. The were built at the company's
                                  Caledonia works, Kilmarnock, SCOTLAND.

                                  Steve G

                                  (who isn't Scots, but lived there long enough to be well aware of local
                                  sensitivities in this matter)
                                • Alastair Inskip
                                  Following the discussions on converting the MT locos, the following links may be of use to anyone wanting to detail, especially footplate detail:
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Apr 17, 2004
                                    Following the discussions on converting the MT locos, the following links
                                    may be of use to anyone wanting to detail, especially footplate detail:

                                    http://www.burger.si/MuzejiInGalerije/ZelezniskiMuzej/Lokomotive/ENGLokomoti
                                    va_K3.htm

                                    http://www.burger.si/MuzejiInGalerije/ZelezniskiMuzej/Lokomotive/SFLokomotiv
                                    a_K3.htm

                                    http://www.burger.si/MuzejiInGalerije/ZelezniskiMuzej/Lokomotive/ObjektLokom
                                    otiva_K3.HTML


                                    Alastair
                                  • models@dreamgenius.co.uk
                                    And for those that don t read Eastern European languages, there is a translation to English hiding shadowed in the bottom of the page. I found this after
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Apr 18, 2004
                                      And for those that don't read Eastern European languages, there is a
                                      translation to English hiding shadowed in the bottom of the page.

                                      I found this after spending nearly an hour trying to translate them for my
                                      own amusement and possible use by the group. Well, it was fun while it
                                      lasted - Doh!

                                      There are a couple of other interesting narrow gauge locos on this site but
                                      I'm especially intrigued by that little transporter wagon / gauge converter
                                      under the K3. That would be a challenge to model in 7mm!

                                      Alan Rogers
                                      Member 1950

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