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Re: Magic Train Loco Conversions

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  • vannerley
    ... It is worth mentioning that WMK of Vienna do a nice set of detailing parts to turn the FMT loco into an Austrian version, like the Styrian Gov. Rlys.
    Message 1 of 19 , Apr 6 2:36 AM
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      --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "richardconey" <richardconey@f...>
      wrote:
      > With all this talk about Magic Trains, has anybody successfully
      > Anglicised or Americanised their 0-4-0 steam locos, and taken
      > pictures I can view?

      It is worth mentioning that WMK of Vienna do a nice set of detailing
      parts to turn the FMT loco into an Austrian version, like the Styrian
      Gov. Rlys. examples for instance. I have one on Helfenberg even
      though the class were not used by the OeBB, it runs as 498.101 which
      is where it might have been in the number series, had they bought
      another 0-4-0.

      The other thought I had was whether the loco needs to be englished -
      the Bredgar & Wormshill, although admitedly it is a hobby line, has a
      Jung 0-4-0 which is quite difficult to tell apart from the FMT model
      (apart from being 45 times bigger). It looks quite happy steaming
      through its little patch of Kent with exRAF rolling stock. Could not
      an English simply have bought a German loco off the shelf?

      2284
      David Vannerley
    • Jim Favre
      Using the Magic Train steamer you could build an Barclay without much effort at all since the Barclay used the Krauss design under license. The biggest
      Message 2 of 19 , Apr 6 4:08 AM
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        Using the "Magic Train" steamer you could build an Barclay without much effort at all since the Barclay used the Krauss design under license. The biggest issues would be to change the cab front and rear windows from square to round and adding front and rear pilot beams with sprung buffers and proper couplers. The caveat is the Barclay may have been built in England but still looks very German.

        The Magic Train mechanism is very nice but to get a British looking loco out of it you would probably find it easier to take a Smallbrook Works kit and drop it over the Fleischmann chassis. The Smallbrook Works kit would not require a great deal of modification and their footplate design would hide the Well Tank chassis.

        Cheers,
        Jim Favre jimfavre@...
        Dalton, Massachusetts
        7mmNGA Member No. 2745

        Note: Outbound E-Mail is scanned for
        viruses automatically before it is sent

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Michael Johnson
        Krauss and O&K locos were very common in the colonies , ie lots in Australia, and also many went to India. So anybody interested in mining or logging railways
        Message 3 of 19 , Apr 6 4:35 AM
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          Krauss and O&K locos were very common in the "colonies", ie lots in
          Australia, and also many went to India. So anybody interested in mining or
          logging railways could justifiably use one.

          In the Australian context you could quite justifiably mix German, British
          and American (esp geared) locos.

          Cheers,

          Michael
        • Alastair Inskip
          Richard, With some detailing the Magic Train could pass for a number of small well tank designs. There s a picture towards the back of Narrow Gauge Railways -
          Message 4 of 19 , Apr 6 6:41 AM
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            Richard,

            With some detailing the Magic Train could pass for a number of small well
            tank designs. There's a picture towards the back of "Narrow Gauge Railways -
            Two Feet and Under" by Robertson, showing an "E" class Andrew Barclay 0-4-0
            well tank almost the spitting image of the Magic Train, with the comments
            that "[s]everal British locomotive builders produced standard types of
            narrow gauge well tank closely based on contemporary Orenstein and Koppel
            designs". The Hudswell Clarke Class A also has some visual similarities to
            my eyes (fig 119, "Industrial Railways of the South-East", Middleton
            Press).

            There's a lot to be said for choice of paint colour, to me, black is generic
            and could be anywhere, olive green or light grey looks "continental" and
            maroon or "racing" green are UK (note, this is purely subjective and in no
            way represents a detailed study of international loco colour schemes.. .).

            Personally, I'm taking the route suggested by another respondent, inventing
            a legend has a O&K well tank imported (did O&K ever bring any across to
            exhibit/trial in the UK?). For detailing I'm upping the scale to 1/32-35
            (1f) and considering a cab replacement from:

            http://www.lokfuehrer-lukas.de/0%20Feldbahn%20Loks/FB-Lok-1/fb-lok-1-ub.htm


            Regards, Alastair

            PS The chassis runs well, it's easily converted to DCC, it breaks down into
            pieces easily, I'm surprised their aren't more conversion kits about.

            PPS One of the best conversions on the web is an 0-4-0-0-4-0 Garrett
            http://www.frankneubauer.de/garratt/garratte.htm#mbele


            -----Original Message-----
            From: richardconey [mailto:richardconey@...]
            Sent: 05 April 2004 20:58
            To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [7mmnga] Magic Train Loco Conversions


            With all this talk about Magic Trains, has anybody successfully
            Anglicised or Americanised their 0-4-0 steam locos, and taken
            pictures I can view? I'm sure I saw an article once which had nicely
            weathered Magic Train steamers in it, which look so much better than
            the pristine ones you buy. I've the green version with fully detailed
            valve gear. What needs changing to produce a believable UK or US well
            tank industrial loco? Does anybody do a conversion kit to convert
            them, or their chassis?

            Richard Coney
            #2710
            London
            England




            Yahoo! Groups Links
          • Mark Newton
            ... or US well tank industrial loco? Richard, I think you d be struggling to find a US-built well tank loco - you d do better building a saddle tank body for
            Message 5 of 19 , Apr 6 3:28 PM
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              --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "richardconey" <richardconey@f...> wrote:

              > With all this talk about Magic Trains, has anybody successfully
              > Anglicised or Americanised their 0-4-0 steam locos, and taken
              > pictures I can view?What needs changing to produce a believable UK
              or > US well tank industrial loco?

              Richard, I think you'd be struggling to find a US-built well tank loco
              - you'd do better building a saddle tank body for the Magic Train mech.

              Cheers,

              Mark.
            • B.Rumary
              ... There were some small narrow gauge 0-4-0 well-tanks in the UK (Andrew Barclay, Hudswell Clarke), so you _might_ be able to revamp the Magic Train loco to
              Message 6 of 19 , Apr 7 4:25 PM
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                Richardconey wrote:

                > With all this talk about Magic Trains, has anybody successfully
                > Anglicised or Americanised their 0-4-0 steam locos, and taken
                > pictures I can view?
                >
                There were some small narrow gauge 0-4-0 well-tanks in the UK (Andrew
                Barclay, Hudswell Clarke), so you _might_ be able to revamp the Magic
                Train loco to look reasonable. However none of the UK locos had outside
                Stephenson valve gear or that pattern of wheels.

                However trying to mark the Fleischmann loco *anything* like a US loco
                is just about impossible. A few German-built locos were imported into
                the US by railfans and tourist railroad operators, and several were "
                Americanised", with 'cow-catcher', balloon stack, etc., but they were
                not very convincing. The truth is there we *no* US-built locos that
                looked anything like this loco. The typical US "Dinky" had bar frames,
                saddle or side tanks, _inside_ Stephensons valve gear and spoked
                wheels. Everything about the Fleischmann loco is quite different; cab,
                frame, cylinders, tank, wheels, domes, stack, etc. To try to make this
                loco look convincingly American is like trying to make a kit of
                Concorde look like a World War I biplane!

                Brian Rumary, England

                http://freespace.virgin.net/brian.rumary/homepage.htm
              • Geoffrey Loynes
                From memory, the only German built NG industrial locos that were well known here were Penlee , a Freudenstein 0-4-0WT , located somewhere near Newlyn,
                Message 7 of 19 , Apr 9 7:05 AM
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                  From memory, the only German built NG industrial locos that were well known here were 'Penlee', a Freudenstein 0-4-0WT , located somewhere near Newlyn, Cornwall, and 'Eigiau', the Penrhyn Oreinstein & Koppel 0-4-0WT. There may also have been a few in Eire

                  Geoff



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                • Richard Coney
                  Mark, I agree with you entirely. What I meant was a German well tank used on an American layout and modified by its American owners to more readily reflect
                  Message 8 of 19 , Apr 9 11:37 AM
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                    Mark,

                    I agree with you entirely. What I meant was a German well tank used on an
                    American layout and modified by its American owners to more readily reflect
                    their taste in locos. Most locos get changed in some way throughout their
                    "lifetime" and in the industrial world seem to be done as cheaply as
                    possible using locally sourced parts where possible. I understand that
                    several small O&K locos were operated by US companies.

                    Incidentally, thanks everyone who has contributed on thie thread so far.

                    Richard
                    London
                    England
                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Mark Newton [mailto:mark_newton@...]
                    Sent: 06 April 2004 23:28
                    To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [7mmnga] Re: Magic Train Loco Conversions


                    --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "richardconey" <richardconey@f...> wrote:

                    > With all this talk about Magic Trains, has anybody successfully
                    > Anglicised or Americanised their 0-4-0 steam locos, and taken
                    > pictures I can view?What needs changing to produce a believable UK
                    or > US well tank industrial loco?

                    Richard, I think you'd be struggling to find a US-built well tank loco
                    - you'd do better building a saddle tank body for the Magic Train mech.

                    Cheers,

                    Mark.



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                  • Mark Newton
                    ... on an ... reflect ... their ... Sorry, Richard, I had the bull by the horns! :-) I have seen one or two references to O&K locos in US, if I can find
                    Message 9 of 19 , Apr 9 3:50 PM
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                      --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Coney" <richardconey@f...> wrote:
                      > Mark,
                      >
                      > I agree with you entirely. What I meant was a German well tank used
                      on an
                      > American layout and modified by its American owners to more readily
                      reflect
                      > their taste in locos. Most locos get changed in some way throughout
                      their
                      > "lifetime" and in the industrial world seem to be done as cheaply as
                      > possible using locally sourced parts where possible. I understand that
                      > several small O&K locos were operated by US companies.

                      Sorry, Richard, I had the bull by the horns! :-)

                      I have seen one or two references to O&K locos in US, if I can find
                      anything useful I'll scan it and post a copy to the group files.

                      All the best,

                      Mark.
                    • wensleyshortline
                      ... Hi Richard, I ve just posted under Photos - Wensley Album, an Anglicised Bachmann Porter. Not my work but now one of my Locos which will sit well on
                      Message 10 of 19 , Apr 10 1:21 AM
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                        --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "richardconey" <richardconey@f...>
                        wrote:
                        > With all this talk about Magic Trains, has anybody successfully
                        > Anglicised or Americanised their 0-4-0 steam locos, and taken
                        > pictures I can view? >
                        > Richard Coney
                        > #2710
                        Hi Richard,
                        I've just posted under Photos - Wensley Album, an Anglicised Bachmann
                        Porter. Not my work but now one of my Locos which will sit well on
                        Felsham Road. Converted using the Bagnall Cab Wrightlines Kit with a
                        number of other significant changes that required the use of a
                        Milling Machine.
                        Cheers GerryB #2777
                        Essex,UK.
                      • B.Rumary
                        ... were Penlee , a Freudenstein 0-4-0WT , located somewhere near Newlyn, Cornwall, and Eigiau , the Penrhyn Oreinstein & Koppel 0-4-0WT. There may also
                        Message 11 of 19 , Apr 10 5:31 AM
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                          Geoffrey Loynes wrote:

                          > From memory, the only German built NG industrial locos that were well known here
                          were 'Penlee', a Freudenstein 0-4-0WT , located somewhere near Newlyn, Cornwall,
                          and 'Eigiau', the Penrhyn Oreinstein & Koppel 0-4-0WT. There may also have been a
                          few in Eire
                          >
                          There were quite a number of German-built narrow gauge steam and diesel locos sold
                          in the UK, although most had gone by the time many enthusiasts became interested
                          in such things.

                          As for Eire, the Irish sugar corporation had a number of O&K 0-4-0WTs at various
                          factories.

                          Brian Rumary, England

                          http://freespace.virgin.net/brian.rumary/homepage.htm
                        • David Leslie Taylor
                          The railway referred to by Geoffrey ran from Penlee Quarry to Newlyn Harbour, (about half a mile) Located a short distance west of Penzance in Cornwall. I
                          Message 12 of 19 , Apr 10 3:37 PM
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                            The railway referred to by Geoffrey ran from Penlee
                            Quarry to Newlyn Harbour, (about half a mile) Located a
                            short distance west of Penzance in Cornwall. I believe it
                            holds the distinction of being the most Westerly railway in
                            the whole of England, Scotland and Wales.
                            There is a brief article on it in "Railway Bylines"
                            volume 9, issue 1, December 2003. (Irwell Press) Featuring
                            three excellent photos of the locomotive. The text states
                            that it was built by A.Koppel of Berlin, and purchased new
                            by the quarry company around 1901. It was withdrawn circa
                            1946. it certainly looks a lot like the Magic Train loco,
                            with outside Stephenson valve-gear etc.
                            One of the photos, a three-quarter rear view, shows
                            the loco after withdrawl, with the cab bearing some
                            decidedly home-made modifications. (and some rather
                            excessive weathering!)
                            I hope this is of help.
                            Dave.T


                            On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:31:23 GMT "B.Rumary"
                            <brian.rumary@...> wrote:

                            > Geoffrey Loynes wrote:
                            >
                            > > From memory, the only German built NG industrial locos that were well known here
                            > were 'Penlee', a Freudenstein 0-4-0WT , located somewhere near Newlyn, Cornwall,
                            > and 'Eigiau', the Penrhyn Oreinstein & Koppel 0-4-0WT. There may also have been a
                            > few in Eire
                            > >
                            > There were quite a number of German-built narrow gauge steam and diesel locos sold
                            > in the UK, although most had gone by the time many enthusiasts became interested
                            > in such things.
                            >
                            > As for Eire, the Irish sugar corporation had a number of O&K 0-4-0WTs at various
                            > factories.
                            >
                            > Brian Rumary, England
                            >
                            > http://freespace.virgin.net/brian.rumary/homepage.htm
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >

                            ----------------------
                            David Leslie Taylor
                            University of Exeter
                          • B.Rumary
                            ... A. Koppel _never_ built any locos themselves - they always contracted out loco orders to other companies and then put their own Arthur Koppel plates on
                            Message 13 of 19 , Apr 12 5:21 AM
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                              David Leslie Taylor wrote:

                              > The text states
                              > that it was built by A.Koppel of Berlin, and purchased new
                              > by the quarry company around 1901.
                              >
                              A. Koppel _never_ built any locos themselves - they always contracted
                              out loco orders to other companies and then put their own "Arthur
                              Koppel" plates on them. The loco at Penlee has now been identified as
                              having been built by Freudenstein, a small German builder.

                              Arthur Koppel and Benno Orenstein went into business as Orenstein &
                              Koppel, who *did* actually build their own locos, but this was a
                              separate company to A.Koppel.

                              Brian Rumary, England

                              http://freespace.virgin.net/brian.rumary/homepage.htm
                            • chris.holmes2
                              If you want to see Penlee, go to Leighton Buzzard. It is not operational, but could often be seen at Pages Park on operating days. The loco was donated to the
                              Message 14 of 19 , Apr 12 12:28 PM
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                                If you want to see Penlee, go to Leighton Buzzard. It is not operational, but could often be seen at Pages Park on operating days. The loco was donated to the LBNGR by the operators of Penlee Quarries a few years ago.

                                Regards
                                Chris Holmes
                                7mmNGA Member No.42
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: David Leslie Taylor
                                To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
                                Cc: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 11:37 PM
                                Subject: [7mmnga] Magic Train Loco in Cornwall


                                The railway referred to by Geoffrey ran from Penlee
                                Quarry to Newlyn Harbour, (about half a mile) Located a
                                short distance west of Penzance in Cornwall. I believe it
                                holds the distinction of being the most Westerly railway in
                                the whole of England, Scotland and Wales.
                                There is a brief article on it in "Railway Bylines"
                                volume 9, issue 1, December 2003. (Irwell Press) Featuring
                                three excellent photos of the locomotive. The text states
                                that it was built by A.Koppel of Berlin, and purchased new
                                by the quarry company around 1901. It was withdrawn circa
                                1946. it certainly looks a lot like the Magic Train loco,
                                with outside Stephenson valve-gear etc.
                                One of the photos, a three-quarter rear view, shows
                                the loco after withdrawl, with the cab bearing some
                                decidedly home-made modifications. (and some rather
                                excessive weathering!)
                                I hope this is of help.
                                Dave.T


                                On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:31:23 GMT "B.Rumary"
                                <brian.rumary@...> wrote:

                                > Geoffrey Loynes wrote:
                                >
                                > > From memory, the only German built NG industrial locos that were well known here
                                > were 'Penlee', a Freudenstein 0-4-0WT , located somewhere near Newlyn, Cornwall,
                                > and 'Eigiau', the Penrhyn Oreinstein & Koppel 0-4-0WT. There may also have been a
                                > few in Eire
                                > >
                                > There were quite a number of German-built narrow gauge steam and diesel locos sold
                                > in the UK, although most had gone by the time many enthusiasts became interested
                                > in such things.
                                >
                                > As for Eire, the Irish sugar corporation had a number of O&K 0-4-0WTs at various
                                > factories.
                                >
                                > Brian Rumary, England
                                >
                                > http://freespace.virgin.net/brian.rumary/homepage.htm
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >

                                ----------------------
                                David Leslie Taylor
                                University of Exeter



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                              • adriangrayfr
                                ... operational, but could often be seen at Pages Park on operating days. The loco was donated to the LBNGR by the operators of Penlee Quarries a few years
                                Message 15 of 19 , Apr 12 2:13 PM
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                                  --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "chris.holmes2" <chris.holmes2@n...>
                                  wrote:
                                  > If you want to see Penlee, go to Leighton Buzzard. It is not
                                  operational, but could often be seen at Pages Park on operating days.
                                  The loco was donated to the LBNGR by the operators of Penlee Quarries
                                  a few years ago.
                                  >
                                  That's interesting, the last time I saw Penlee (too many years ago)
                                  it was acting as a load on a well wagon at the GWR Society's Didcot
                                  depot and looking more than a bit out of place.
                                  I must have missed the move to Leighton Buzzard but did wonder where
                                  it had gone, though I haven't been to Didcot for years.

                                  Adrian - who lives almost midway between Didcot and Leighton Buzzard
                                  but doesn't visit either often enough!
                                • Stephen John Griffiths
                                  ... From: Jim Favre To: Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 12:08 PM Subject: Re: [7mmnga] Re: Magic Train
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Apr 12 11:06 PM
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                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: "Jim Favre" <jimfavre@...>
                                    To: <7mmnga@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 12:08 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [7mmnga] Re: Magic Train Loco Conversions


                                    > Using the "Magic Train" steamer you could build an Barclay without much
                                    effort at all since the Barclay used the Krauss design under license. The
                                    biggest issues would be to change the cab front and rear windows from square
                                    to round and adding front and rear pilot beams with sprung buffers and
                                    proper couplers. The caveat is the Barclay may have been built in England
                                    but still looks very German.
                                    >

                                    No Barclays were ever built in England. The were built at the company's
                                    Caledonia works, Kilmarnock, SCOTLAND.

                                    Steve G

                                    (who isn't Scots, but lived there long enough to be well aware of local
                                    sensitivities in this matter)
                                  • Alastair Inskip
                                    Following the discussions on converting the MT locos, the following links may be of use to anyone wanting to detail, especially footplate detail:
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Apr 17 2:48 PM
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                                      Following the discussions on converting the MT locos, the following links
                                      may be of use to anyone wanting to detail, especially footplate detail:

                                      http://www.burger.si/MuzejiInGalerije/ZelezniskiMuzej/Lokomotive/ENGLokomoti
                                      va_K3.htm

                                      http://www.burger.si/MuzejiInGalerije/ZelezniskiMuzej/Lokomotive/SFLokomotiv
                                      a_K3.htm

                                      http://www.burger.si/MuzejiInGalerije/ZelezniskiMuzej/Lokomotive/ObjektLokom
                                      otiva_K3.HTML


                                      Alastair
                                    • models@dreamgenius.co.uk
                                      And for those that don t read Eastern European languages, there is a translation to English hiding shadowed in the bottom of the page. I found this after
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Apr 18 2:46 AM
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                                        And for those that don't read Eastern European languages, there is a
                                        translation to English hiding shadowed in the bottom of the page.

                                        I found this after spending nearly an hour trying to translate them for my
                                        own amusement and possible use by the group. Well, it was fun while it
                                        lasted - Doh!

                                        There are a couple of other interesting narrow gauge locos on this site but
                                        I'm especially intrigued by that little transporter wagon / gauge converter
                                        under the K3. That would be a challenge to model in 7mm!

                                        Alan Rogers
                                        Member 1950

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