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RE: RE: [7mm NGA] RE: Ffestiniog Railway 4 Ton End Van

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  • adriangrayfr
    Ron, You re welcome. 154 was never in Spooners but, a good few years ago, it did spend some time on the platform outside as a store for the patio furniture -
    Message 1 of 15 , Sep 30, 2013
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      Ron,
      You're welcome.
      154 was never in Spooners but, a good few years ago, it did spend some time on the platform outside as a store for the patio furniture - it was roughly on the present alignment of the RhE tracks.
      The only van to have had a place indoors was the Hearse, when the area now Spooners was a proper Museum.
      Photo later this week, but I need your email address, please.
       
      Adrian
       
       

      ---In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, <7mmnga@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

      Hi Adrian,
       
      Many thanks for the time you have taken to answer my question, and the information is most useful and I think I have understood everything you have said.
       
      However, when you have the time a photo would be most appreciated.
       
      I must admit that I thought I had a photo of 154 which I took some years ago , but for the life of me I couldn't find yesterday when I was looking through my collection. Was the van ever on display in Spooner's?
       
      Kind regards
       
      Ron
       

      To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
      From: adrian@...
      Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 12:09:06 -0700
      Subject: [7mm NGA] RE: Ffestiniog Railway 4 Ton End Van



      Ron,
       
      I wouldn't put too much faith in the Lloyd projection in Boyd - funny things happen to scale and so on!
       
      Let's see whether, pending the photo, I can help with some words.  These are based upon my intimate acquaintance with the surviving Van 154 which we used as a store during the recent FR Kids Week!  My measurements are approximate - Peter Swift, who mastered the PW kit, took his measurements from Van 154 itself,so I think we may trust the dimensional accuracy of the kit! 
       
      For the purposes of this exercise, imagine you are stood facing the end door of the van.
      The right hand door bears two hinge straps, substantial piece of ironwork, running from the outer edge right up to the middle margin.
      At their outer ends these straps are doubled, forming the hinges.  The representation on the kit is adequate in this respect, IMHO.
      About three inches in from the middle margin, and again about nine inches further to the right, each strap has an iron casting that projects, horizontally from the strap and has a vertical hole in it (in effect, a staple), to accept a cast iron pin, about four inches long and retained by a fine chain.  There should be four of these, two up and two down.
      On the left hand door the hinge straps extend to the middle margin and then, by way of a modest joggle, further across the right hand door by about 15 in, far enough to cover the two cast staples.  Each hinge strap projection has two holes that fit over the staples, leaving the holes exposed for the insertion of the pins.
      In the middle of the two innermost planks of each door, midway between the two hinge straps, are a pair of modest, forged, 'cupboard' handles - I suspect it is these you want details of and can best describe them as about 4 in long over the aperture and standing about1.5 in prouod of the doors.  
      These handles are not on the kit (they won't cast, however clever Phil may be!)  Nor are the pins and fine chains.
       
      I would represent the fine chains with two strands of the finest copper from 3amp cable twisted together and the pins & staples with 0.3mm wire, but even that might be overscale.
      Making the 'cupboard' handles from 0.3mm wire, or finer, will refine the appearance of the kit.
       
      I hope all that waffle helps!
       
      Regards,
       
      Adrian 
       
       
       
       

      ---In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, <7mmnga@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

      Hi,
       
      I'm just in the process of making the Port Wynn Stay model of the 4 ton end van, and wondered if anyone could tell me where I might find a decent photo of the end doors showing the style of the door handles.
       
      Many thanks for any help.
       
      Ron Houghton


    • Ron Houghton
      Hi Adrian, Not sure I got the message................................... Cheers Ron To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com From: adrian@pound25.freeserve.co.uk Date: Mon,
      Message 2 of 15 , Oct 2, 2013
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        Hi Adrian,
         
        Not sure I got the message...................................
         
        Cheers
         
        Ron
         

        To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
        From: adrian@...
        Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 14:32:25 -0700
        Subject: RE: RE: [7mm NGA] RE: Ffestiniog Railway 4 Ton End Van



         


      • adriangrayfr
        Ron, I ve only ust scanned the photograph. In order to make the help available to anyone else who might wish to improve the detailing of their Port Wynnstay
        Message 3 of 15 , Oct 6, 2013
        • 0 Attachment

           

          Ron,
           
          I've only ust scanned the photograph.  In order to make the help available to anyone else who might wish to improve the detailing of their Port Wynnstay kit for the FR End Door Van I have loaded two images to the Photos section of this Group.
          The album is called FR End Door Van and there are two images, a general, almost three-quarter, view and a high resolution scan of the end doors, itended to illustrate my earlier written description of the arrangement of the door's ironwork.
          I hope they give you enough to model the handles.
           
          Adrian
           
           
          ---In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, <houghtonron@...> wrote:

          Hi Adrian,
           
          Not sure I got the message...................................
           
          Cheers
           
          Ron
           
          To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
          From: adrian@...
          Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 14:32:25 -0700
          Subject: RE: RE: [7mm NGA] RE: Ffestiniog Railway 4 Ton End Van



           
          Ron,
          You're welcome.
          154 was never in Spooners but, a good few years ago, it did spend some time on the platform outside as a store for the patio furniture - it was roughly on the present alignment of the RhE tracks.
          The only van to have had a place indoors was the Hearse, when the area now Spooners was a proper Museum.
          Photo later this week, but I need your email address, please.
           
          Adrian
           
           

          ---In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, <7mmnga@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

          Hi Adrian,
           
          Many thanks for the time you have taken to answer my question, and the information is most useful and I think I have understood everything you have said.
           
          However, when you have the time a photo would be most appreciated.
           
          I must admit that I thought I had a photo of 154 which I took some years ago , but for the life of me I couldn't find yesterday when I was looking through my collection. Was the van ever on display in Spooner's?
           
          Kind regards
           
          Ron
           
          To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
          From: adrian@...
          Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 12:09:06 -0700
          Subject: [7mm NGA] RE: Ffestiniog Railway 4 Ton End Van



          Ron,
           
          I wouldn't put too much faith in the Lloyd projection in Boyd - funny things happen to scale and so on!
           
          Let's see whether, pending the photo, I can help with some words.  These are based upon my intimate acquaintance with the surviving Van 154 which we used as a store during the recent FR Kids Week!  My measurements are approximate - Peter Swift, who mastered the PW kit, took his measurements from Van 154 itself,so I think we may trust the dimensional accuracy of the kit! 
           
          For the purposes of this exercise, imagine you are stood facing the end door of the van.
          The right hand door bears two hinge straps, substantial piece of ironwork, running from the outer edge right up to the middle margin.
          At their outer ends these straps are doubled, forming the hinges.  The representation on the kit is adequate in this respect, IMHO.
          About three inches in from the middle margin, and again about nine inches further to the right, each strap has an iron casting that projects, horizontally from the strap and has a vertical hole in it (in effect, a staple), to accept a cast iron pin, about four inches long and retained by a fine chain.  There should be four of these, two up and two down.
          On the left hand door the hinge straps extend to the middle margin and then, by way of a modest joggle, further across the right hand door by about 15 in, far enough to cover the two cast staples.  Each hinge strap projection has two holes that fit over the staples, leaving the holes exposed for the insertion of the pins.
          In the middle of the two innermost planks of each door, midway between the two hinge straps, are a pair of modest, forged, 'cupboard' handles - I suspect it is these you want details of and can best describe them as about 4 in long over the aperture and standing about1.5 in prouod of the doors.  
          These handles are not on the kit (they won't cast, however clever Phil may be!)  Nor are the pins and fine chains.
           
          I would represent the fine chains with two strands of the finest copper from 3amp cable twisted together and the pins & staples with 0.3mm wire, but even that might be overscale.
          Making the 'cupboard' handles from 0.3mm wire, or finer, will refine the appearance of the kit.
           
          I hope all that waffle helps!
           
          Regards,
           
          Adrian 
           
           
           
           

          ---In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, <7mmnga@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

          Hi,
           
          I'm just in the process of making the Port Wynn Stay model of the 4 ton end van, and wondered if anyone could tell me where I might find a decent photo of the end doors showing the style of the door handles.
           
          Many thanks for any help.
           
          Ron Houghton




        • Ron Houghton
          Adrian, Interesting comments.............................. Ron To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com From: adrian@pound25.freeserve.co.uk Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 12:26:26
          Message 4 of 15 , Oct 7, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            Adrian,
             
            Interesting comments..............................
             
            Ron
             

            To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
            From: adrian@...
            Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 12:26:26 -0700
            Subject: [7mm NGA] RE: Ffestiniog Railway 4 Ton End Van



             


          • ronhoughton85
            Hi Adrian, Have just found the photos that you sent recently, and very useful. Thank you for your help. My only problem now is that I do not seem to be able to
            Message 5 of 15 , Oct 12, 2013
            • 0 Attachment

              Hi Adrian,

               

              Have just found the photos that you sent recently, and very useful. Thank you for your help.

              My only problem now is that I do not seem to be able to download them. With the format of the site changing is there something that I need to do to allow me to download photos?

              Cheers

              Ron 



              ---In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, <houghtonron@...> wrote:

              Adrian,
               
              Interesting comments..............................
               
              Ron
               
              To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
              From: adrian@...
              Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 12:26:26 -0700
              Subject: [7mm NGA] RE: Ffestiniog Railway 4 Ton End Van



               
              Ron,
               
              I've only ust scanned the photograph.  In order to make the help available to anyone else who might wish to improve the detailing of their Port Wynnstay kit for the FR End Door Van I have loaded two images to the Photos section of this Group.
              The album is called FR End Door Van and there are two images, a general, almost three-quarter, view and a high resolution scan of the end doors, itended to illustrate my earlier written description of the arrangement of the door's ironwork.
              I hope they give you enough to model the handles.
               
              Adrian
               
               
              ---In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, <houghtonron@...> wrote:

              Hi Adrian,
               
              Not sure I got the message...................................
               
              Cheers
               
              Ron
               
              To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
              From: adrian@...
              Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 14:32:25 -0700
              Subject: RE: RE: [7mm NGA] RE: Ffestiniog Railway 4 Ton End Van



               
              Ron,
              You're welcome.
              154 was never in Spooners but, a good few years ago, it did spend some time on the platform outside as a store for the patio furniture - it was roughly on the present alignment of the RhE tracks.
              The only van to have had a place indoors was the Hearse, when the area now Spooners was a proper Museum.
              Photo later this week, but I need your email address, please.
               
              Adrian
               
               

              ---In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, <7mmnga@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

              Hi Adrian,
               
              Many thanks for the time you have taken to answer my question, and the information is most useful and I think I have understood everything you have said.
               
              However, when you have the time a photo would be most appreciated.
               
              I must admit that I thought I had a photo of 154 which I took some years ago , but for the life of me I couldn't find yesterday when I was looking through my collection. Was the van ever on display in Spooner's?
               
              Kind regards
               
              Ron
               
              To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
              From: adrian@...
              Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 12:09:06 -0700
              Subject: [7mm NGA] RE: Ffestiniog Railway 4 Ton End Van



              Ron,
               
              I wouldn't put too much faith in the Lloyd projection in Boyd - funny things happen to scale and so on!
               
              Let's see whether, pending the photo, I can help with some words.  These are based upon my intimate acquaintance with the surviving Van 154 which we used as a store during the recent FR Kids Week!  My measurements are approximate - Peter Swift, who mastered the PW kit, took his measurements from Van 154 itself,so I think we may trust the dimensional accuracy of the kit! 
               
              For the purposes of this exercise, imagine you are stood facing the end door of the van.
              The right hand door bears two hinge straps, substantial piece of ironwork, running from the outer edge right up to the middle margin.
              At their outer ends these straps are doubled, forming the hinges.  The representation on the kit is adequate in this respect, IMHO.
              About three inches in from the middle margin, and again about nine inches further to the right, each strap has an iron casting that projects, horizontally from the strap and has a vertical hole in it (in effect, a staple), to accept a cast iron pin, about four inches long and retained by a fine chain.  There should be four of these, two up and two down.
              On the left hand door the hinge straps extend to the middle margin and then, by way of a modest joggle, further across the right hand door by about 15 in, far enough to cover the two cast staples.  Each hinge strap projection has two holes that fit over the staples, leaving the holes exposed for the insertion of the pins.
              In the middle of the two innermost planks of each door, midway between the two hinge straps, are a pair of modest, forged, 'cupboard' handles - I suspect it is these you want details of and can best describe them as about 4 in long over the aperture and standing about1.5 in prouod of the doors.  
              These handles are not on the kit (they won't cast, however clever Phil may be!)  Nor are the pins and fine chains.
               
              I would represent the fine chains with two strands of the finest copper from 3amp cable twisted together and the pins & staples with 0.3mm wire, but even that might be overscale.
              Making the 'cupboard' handles from 0.3mm wire, or finer, will refine the appearance of the kit.
               
              I hope all that waffle helps!
               
              Regards,
               
              Adrian 
               
               
               
               

              ---In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, <7mmnga@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


              Hi,
               
              I'm just in the process of making the Port Wynn Stay model of the 4 ton end van, and wondered if anyone could tell me where I might find a decent photo of the end doors showing the style of the door handles.
               
              Many thanks for any help.
               
              Ron Houghton






            • diggypatch
              Hi! If you visit the group you can see the photo, click on it and it will open the gallery. If you click on the photo it opens the pair of pics. Click on the
              Message 6 of 15 , Oct 12, 2013
              • 0 Attachment

                 Hi!

                If you visit the group you can see the photo, click on it and it will open the gallery. If you click on the photo it opens the pair of pics. Click on the 'bathtub with down arrow' at the bottom of the pic and download to your file! Hope this helps, Robert from a sunny Gloucestershire! No. 2823



                ---In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, <7mmnga@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                Hi Adrian,

                 

                Have just found the photos that you sent recently, and very useful. Thank you for your help.

                My only problem now is that I do not seem to be able to download them. With the format of the site changing is there something that I need to do to allow me to download photos?

                Cheers

                Ron 



                ---In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, <houghtonron@...> wrote:

                Adrian,
                 
                Interesting comments..............................
                 
                Ron
                 
                To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
                From: adrian@...
                Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 12:26:26 -0700
                Subject: [7mm NGA] RE: Ffestiniog Railway 4 Ton End Van



                 
                Ron,
                 
                I've only ust scanned the photograph.  In order to make the help available to anyone else who might wish to improve the detailing of their Port Wynnstay kit for the FR End Door Van I have loaded two images to the Photos section of this Group.
                The album is called FR End Door Van and there are two images, a general, almost three-quarter, view and a high resolution scan of the end doors, itended to illustrate my earlier written description of the arrangement of the door's ironwork.
                I hope they give you enough to model the handles.
                 
                Adrian
                 
                 
                ---In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, <houghtonron@...> wrote:

                Hi Adrian,
                 
                Not sure I got the message...................................
                 
                Cheers
                 
                Ron
                 
                To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
                From: adrian@...
                Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 14:32:25 -0700
                Subject: RE: RE: [7mm NGA] RE: Ffestiniog Railway 4 Ton End Van



                 
                Ron,
                You're welcome.
                154 was never in Spooners but, a good few years ago, it did spend some time on the platform outside as a store for the patio furniture - it was roughly on the present alignment of the RhE tracks.
                The only van to have had a place indoors was the Hearse, when the area now Spooners was a proper Museum.
                Photo later this week, but I need your email address, please.
                 
                Adrian
                 
                 

                ---In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, <7mmnga@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                Hi Adrian,
                 
                Many thanks for the time you have taken to answer my question, and the information is most useful and I think I have understood everything you have said.
                 
                However, when you have the time a photo would be most appreciated.
                 
                I must admit that I thought I had a photo of 154 which I took some years ago , but for the life of me I couldn't find yesterday when I was looking through my collection. Was the van ever on display in Spooner's?
                 
                Kind regards
                 
                Ron
                 
                To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
                From: adrian@...
                Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 12:09:06 -0700
                Subject: [7mm NGA] RE: Ffestiniog Railway 4 Ton End Van



                Ron,
                 
                I wouldn't put too much faith in the Lloyd projection in Boyd - funny things happen to scale and so on!
                 
                Let's see whether, pending the photo, I can help with some words.  These are based upon my intimate acquaintance with the surviving Van 154 which we used as a store during the recent FR Kids Week!  My measurements are approximate - Peter Swift, who mastered the PW kit, took his measurements from Van 154 itself,so I think we may trust the dimensional accuracy of the kit! 
                 
                For the purposes of this exercise, imagine you are stood facing the end door of the van.
                The right hand door bears two hinge straps, substantial piece of ironwork, running from the outer edge right up to the middle margin.
                At their outer ends these straps are doubled, forming the hinges.  The representation on the kit is adequate in this respect, IMHO.
                About three inches in from the middle margin, and again about nine inches further to the right, each strap has an iron casting that projects, horizontally from the strap and has a vertical hole in it (in effect, a staple), to accept a cast iron pin, about four inches long and retained by a fine chain.  There should be four of these, two up and two down.
                On the left hand door the hinge straps extend to the middle margin and then, by way of a modest joggle, further across the right hand door by about 15 in, far enough to cover the two cast staples.  Each hinge strap projection has two holes that fit over the staples, leaving the holes exposed for the insertion of the pins.
                In the middle of the two innermost planks of each door, midway between the two hinge straps, are a pair of modest, forged, 'cupboard' handles - I suspect it is these you want details of and can best describe them as about 4 in long over the aperture and standing about1.5 in prouod of the doors.  
                These handles are not on the kit (they won't cast, however clever Phil may be!)  Nor are the pins and fine chains.
                 
                I would represent the fine chains with two strands of the finest copper from 3amp cable twisted together and the pins & staples with 0.3mm wire, but even that might be overscale.
                Making the 'cupboard' handles from 0.3mm wire, or finer, will refine the appearance of the kit.
                 
                I hope all that waffle helps!
                 
                Regards,
                 
                Adrian 
                 
                 
                 
                 

                ---In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, <7mmnga@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                Hi,
                 
                I'm just in the process of making the Port Wynn Stay model of the 4 ton end van, and wondered if anyone could tell me where I might find a decent photo of the end doors showing the style of the door handles.
                 
                Many thanks for any help.
                 
                Ron Houghton






              • Ron Houghton
                Morning, Many thanks for the info on how to print off the photos. Worked a treat. Kind regards Ron Houghton To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com From:
                Message 7 of 15 , Oct 14, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  Morning,
                   
                  Many thanks for the info on how to print off the photos. Worked a treat.
                   
                  Kind regards
                   
                  Ron Houghton
                   

                  To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
                  From: diggypatch@...
                  Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2013 07:45:20 -0700
                  Subject: [7mm NGA] RE: RE: Ffestiniog Railway 4 Ton End Van



                   Hi!
                  If you visit the group you can see the photo, click on it and it will open the gallery. If you click on the photo it opens the pair of pics. Click on the 'bathtub with down arrow' at the bottom of the pic and download to your file! Hope this helps, Robert from a sunny Gloucestershire! No. 2823


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