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Ffestiniog Railway 4 Ton End Van

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  • ronhoughton85
    Hi, I m just in the process of making the Port Wynn Stay model of the 4 ton end van, and wondered if anyone could tell me where I might find a decent photo of
    Message 1 of 15 , Sep 29 5:27 AM
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      Hi,

       

      I'm just in the process of making the Port Wynn Stay model of the 4 ton end van, and wondered if anyone could tell me where I might find a decent photo of the end doors showing the style of the door handles.

       

      Many thanks for any help.

       

      Ron Houghton

    • heatonwood
      Hi Ron. Pictures showing the end seem a bit thin on the ground. But there is a shot of one with a pair of bogie bolsters and the Cleminson on p153 of Peter
      Message 2 of 15 , Sep 29 6:09 AM
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        Hi Ron. Pictures showing the end seem a bit thin on the ground. But there is a shot of one with a pair of bogie bolsters and the Cleminson on p153 of Peter Johnson's Illustrated History of the FR. It is an FR Archives image so Adrian Gray just might have a better quality copy if you ask him really nicely. The book is a bit grainy and although the door handles are clear, the locking mechanism and any chains are not. Maybe some help I hope Paul
      • heatonwood
        Well well what has neo done now. I replied to Ron about the FR van and somehow the heading re Moelwyn was brought across from a previous 014 group message ????
        Message 3 of 15 , Sep 29 6:14 AM
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          Well well what has neo done now. I replied to Ron about the FR van and somehow the heading re Moelwyn was brought across from a previous 014 group message ???? Paul
        • Ron Houghton
          Hi Paul, Thanks for your comments, and see what you mean about the photo in Peter Johnson s book. I also found a drawing in the front of JICB s book on the
          Message 4 of 15 , Sep 29 7:57 AM
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            Hi Paul,
             
            Thanks for your comments, and see what you mean about the photo in Peter Johnson's book.
             
            I also found a drawing in the front of JICB's book on the Festiniog Railway Vol II, which shows the handles having a curve similar to the photo in PJ's book.
             
            Do really think that if I asked Adrian ever so nicely, he might have a better photo?
             
            Kind regards
             
            Ron
             

            To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
            From: heatonwood@...
            Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 06:09:42 -0700
            Subject: [7mm NGA] RE: Baldwin Gas Mechanical



            Hi Ron. Pictures showing the end seem a bit thin on the ground. But there is a shot of one with a pair of bogie bolsters and the Cleminson on p153 of Peter Johnson's Illustrated History of the FR. It is an FR Archives image so Adrian Gray just might have a better quality copy if you ask him really nicely. The book is a bit grainy and although the door handles are clear, the locking mechanism and any chains are not. Maybe some help I hope Paul

          • heatonwood
            You never know, Ron, but Mr Gray may spot these messages himself as a regular on this forum! I am sure if you approached him direct from the forum email
            Message 5 of 15 , Sep 29 10:58 AM
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              You never know, Ron, but Mr Gray may spot these messages himself as a regular on this forum! I am sure if you approached him direct from the forum email address you would get a favourable result. I see the title is still gas mechanical. How odd Paul
            • adriangrayfr
              Dr Holmes knows me too well!! Ron, email me direct at archivist AT frheritage DOT org DOT uk so I am able to send you a digital image. I warn it may take a day
              Message 6 of 15 , Sep 29 11:25 AM
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                Dr Holmes knows me too well!!

                 

                Ron, email me direct at archivist AT frheritage DOT org DOT uk so I am able to send you a digital image.  I warn it may take a day or two as I am about to go away on business for a couple of days and the images you need aren't yet scanned.

                 

                Adrian



                ---In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, <7mmnga@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                You never know, Ron, but Mr Gray may spot these messages himself as a regular on this forum! I am sure if you approached him direct from the forum email address you would get a favourable result. I see the title is still gas mechanical. How odd Paul
              • adriangrayfr
                Ron, I wouldn t put too much faith in the Lloyd projection in Boyd - funny things happen to scale and so on! Let s see whether, pending the photo, I can help
                Message 7 of 15 , Sep 29 12:09 PM
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                  Ron,

                   

                  I wouldn't put too much faith in the Lloyd projection in Boyd - funny things happen to scale and so on!

                   

                  Let's see whether, pending the photo, I can help with some words.  These are based upon my intimate acquaintance with the surviving Van 154 which we used as a store during the recent FR Kids Week!  My measurements are approximate - Peter Swift, who mastered the PW kit, took his measurements from Van 154 itself,so I think we may trust the dimensional accuracy of the kit! 

                   

                  For the purposes of this exercise, imagine you are stood facing the end door of the van.

                  The right hand door bears two hinge straps, substantial piece of ironwork, running from the outer edge right up to the middle margin.

                  At their outer ends these straps are doubled, forming the hinges.  The representation on the kit is adequate in this respect, IMHO.

                  About three inches in from the middle margin, and again about nine inches further to the right, each strap has an iron casting that projects, horizontally from the strap and has a vertical hole in it (in effect, a staple), to accept a cast iron pin, about four inches long and retained by a fine chain.  There should be four of these, two up and two down.

                  On the left hand door the hinge straps extend to the middle margin and then, by way of a modest joggle, further across the right hand door by about 15 in, far enough to cover the two cast staples.  Each hinge strap projection has two holes that fit over the staples, leaving the holes exposed for the insertion of the pins.

                  In the middle of the two innermost planks of each door, midway between the two hinge straps, are a pair of modest, forged, 'cupboard' handles - I suspect it is these you want details of and can best describe them as about 4 in long over the aperture and standing about1.5 in prouod of the doors.  

                  These handles are not on the kit (they won't cast, however clever Phil may be!)  Nor are the pins and fine chains.

                   

                  I would represent the fine chains with two strands of the finest copper from 3amp cable twisted together and the pins & staples with 0.3mm wire, but even that might be overscale.

                  Making the 'cupboard' handles from 0.3mm wire, or finer, will refine the appearance of the kit.

                   

                  I hope all that waffle helps!

                   

                  Regards,

                   

                  Adrian 

                   

                   

                   

                   

                  ---In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, <7mmnga@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                  Hi,

                   

                  I'm just in the process of making the Port Wynn Stay model of the 4 ton end van, and wondered if anyone could tell me where I might find a decent photo of the end doors showing the style of the door handles.

                   

                  Many thanks for any help.

                   

                  Ron Houghton

                • Ron Houghton
                  Hi Adrian, Many thanks for the time you have taken to answer my question, and the information is most useful and I think I have understood everything you have
                  Message 8 of 15 , Sep 30 10:41 AM
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                    Hi Adrian,
                     
                    Many thanks for the time you have taken to answer my question, and the information is most useful and I think I have understood everything you have said.
                     
                    However, when you have the time a photo would be most appreciated.
                     
                    I must admit that I thought I had a photo of 154 which I took some years ago , but for the life of me I couldn't find yesterday when I was looking through my collection. Was the van ever on display in Spooner's?
                     
                    Kind regards
                     
                    Ron
                     

                    To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
                    From: adrian@...
                    Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 12:09:06 -0700
                    Subject: [7mm NGA] RE: Ffestiniog Railway 4 Ton End Van



                    Ron,
                     
                    I wouldn't put too much faith in the Lloyd projection in Boyd - funny things happen to scale and so on!
                     
                    Let's see whether, pending the photo, I can help with some words.  These are based upon my intimate acquaintance with the surviving Van 154 which we used as a store during the recent FR Kids Week!  My measurements are approximate - Peter Swift, who mastered the PW kit, took his measurements from Van 154 itself,so I think we may trust the dimensional accuracy of the kit! 
                     
                    For the purposes of this exercise, imagine you are stood facing the end door of the van.
                    The right hand door bears two hinge straps, substantial piece of ironwork, running from the outer edge right up to the middle margin.
                    At their outer ends these straps are doubled, forming the hinges.  The representation on the kit is adequate in this respect, IMHO.
                    About three inches in from the middle margin, and again about nine inches further to the right, each strap has an iron casting that projects, horizontally from the strap and has a vertical hole in it (in effect, a staple), to accept a cast iron pin, about four inches long and retained by a fine chain.  There should be four of these, two up and two down.
                    On the left hand door the hinge straps extend to the middle margin and then, by way of a modest joggle, further across the right hand door by about 15 in, far enough to cover the two cast staples.  Each hinge strap projection has two holes that fit over the staples, leaving the holes exposed for the insertion of the pins.
                    In the middle of the two innermost planks of each door, midway between the two hinge straps, are a pair of modest, forged, 'cupboard' handles - I suspect it is these you want details of and can best describe them as about 4 in long over the aperture and standing about1.5 in prouod of the doors.  
                    These handles are not on the kit (they won't cast, however clever Phil may be!)  Nor are the pins and fine chains.
                     
                    I would represent the fine chains with two strands of the finest copper from 3amp cable twisted together and the pins & staples with 0.3mm wire, but even that might be overscale.
                    Making the 'cupboard' handles from 0.3mm wire, or finer, will refine the appearance of the kit.
                     
                    I hope all that waffle helps!
                     
                    Regards,
                     
                    Adrian 
                     
                     
                     
                     


                  • adriangrayfr
                    Ron, You re welcome. 154 was never in Spooners but, a good few years ago, it did spend some time on the platform outside as a store for the patio furniture -
                    Message 9 of 15 , Sep 30 2:32 PM
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                      Ron,
                      You're welcome.
                      154 was never in Spooners but, a good few years ago, it did spend some time on the platform outside as a store for the patio furniture - it was roughly on the present alignment of the RhE tracks.
                      The only van to have had a place indoors was the Hearse, when the area now Spooners was a proper Museum.
                      Photo later this week, but I need your email address, please.
                       
                      Adrian
                       
                       

                      ---In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, <7mmnga@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                      Hi Adrian,
                       
                      Many thanks for the time you have taken to answer my question, and the information is most useful and I think I have understood everything you have said.
                       
                      However, when you have the time a photo would be most appreciated.
                       
                      I must admit that I thought I had a photo of 154 which I took some years ago , but for the life of me I couldn't find yesterday when I was looking through my collection. Was the van ever on display in Spooner's?
                       
                      Kind regards
                       
                      Ron
                       

                      To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
                      From: adrian@...
                      Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 12:09:06 -0700
                      Subject: [7mm NGA] RE: Ffestiniog Railway 4 Ton End Van



                      Ron,
                       
                      I wouldn't put too much faith in the Lloyd projection in Boyd - funny things happen to scale and so on!
                       
                      Let's see whether, pending the photo, I can help with some words.  These are based upon my intimate acquaintance with the surviving Van 154 which we used as a store during the recent FR Kids Week!  My measurements are approximate - Peter Swift, who mastered the PW kit, took his measurements from Van 154 itself,so I think we may trust the dimensional accuracy of the kit! 
                       
                      For the purposes of this exercise, imagine you are stood facing the end door of the van.
                      The right hand door bears two hinge straps, substantial piece of ironwork, running from the outer edge right up to the middle margin.
                      At their outer ends these straps are doubled, forming the hinges.  The representation on the kit is adequate in this respect, IMHO.
                      About three inches in from the middle margin, and again about nine inches further to the right, each strap has an iron casting that projects, horizontally from the strap and has a vertical hole in it (in effect, a staple), to accept a cast iron pin, about four inches long and retained by a fine chain.  There should be four of these, two up and two down.
                      On the left hand door the hinge straps extend to the middle margin and then, by way of a modest joggle, further across the right hand door by about 15 in, far enough to cover the two cast staples.  Each hinge strap projection has two holes that fit over the staples, leaving the holes exposed for the insertion of the pins.
                      In the middle of the two innermost planks of each door, midway between the two hinge straps, are a pair of modest, forged, 'cupboard' handles - I suspect it is these you want details of and can best describe them as about 4 in long over the aperture and standing about1.5 in prouod of the doors.  
                      These handles are not on the kit (they won't cast, however clever Phil may be!)  Nor are the pins and fine chains.
                       
                      I would represent the fine chains with two strands of the finest copper from 3amp cable twisted together and the pins & staples with 0.3mm wire, but even that might be overscale.
                      Making the 'cupboard' handles from 0.3mm wire, or finer, will refine the appearance of the kit.
                       
                      I hope all that waffle helps!
                       
                      Regards,
                       
                      Adrian 
                       
                       
                       
                       

                      ---In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, <7mmnga@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                      Hi,
                       
                      I'm just in the process of making the Port Wynn Stay model of the 4 ton end van, and wondered if anyone could tell me where I might find a decent photo of the end doors showing the style of the door handles.
                       
                      Many thanks for any help.
                       
                      Ron Houghton


                    • Ron Houghton
                      Hi Adrian, Not sure I got the message................................... Cheers Ron To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com From: adrian@pound25.freeserve.co.uk Date: Mon,
                      Message 10 of 15 , Oct 2, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hi Adrian,
                         
                        Not sure I got the message...................................
                         
                        Cheers
                         
                        Ron
                         

                        To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
                        From: adrian@...
                        Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 14:32:25 -0700
                        Subject: RE: RE: [7mm NGA] RE: Ffestiniog Railway 4 Ton End Van



                         


                      • adriangrayfr
                        Ron, I ve only ust scanned the photograph. In order to make the help available to anyone else who might wish to improve the detailing of their Port Wynnstay
                        Message 11 of 15 , Oct 6, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment

                           

                          Ron,
                           
                          I've only ust scanned the photograph.  In order to make the help available to anyone else who might wish to improve the detailing of their Port Wynnstay kit for the FR End Door Van I have loaded two images to the Photos section of this Group.
                          The album is called FR End Door Van and there are two images, a general, almost three-quarter, view and a high resolution scan of the end doors, itended to illustrate my earlier written description of the arrangement of the door's ironwork.
                          I hope they give you enough to model the handles.
                           
                          Adrian
                           
                           
                          ---In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, <houghtonron@...> wrote:

                          Hi Adrian,
                           
                          Not sure I got the message...................................
                           
                          Cheers
                           
                          Ron
                           
                          To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
                          From: adrian@...
                          Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 14:32:25 -0700
                          Subject: RE: RE: [7mm NGA] RE: Ffestiniog Railway 4 Ton End Van



                           
                          Ron,
                          You're welcome.
                          154 was never in Spooners but, a good few years ago, it did spend some time on the platform outside as a store for the patio furniture - it was roughly on the present alignment of the RhE tracks.
                          The only van to have had a place indoors was the Hearse, when the area now Spooners was a proper Museum.
                          Photo later this week, but I need your email address, please.
                           
                          Adrian
                           
                           

                          ---In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, <7mmnga@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                          Hi Adrian,
                           
                          Many thanks for the time you have taken to answer my question, and the information is most useful and I think I have understood everything you have said.
                           
                          However, when you have the time a photo would be most appreciated.
                           
                          I must admit that I thought I had a photo of 154 which I took some years ago , but for the life of me I couldn't find yesterday when I was looking through my collection. Was the van ever on display in Spooner's?
                           
                          Kind regards
                           
                          Ron
                           
                          To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
                          From: adrian@...
                          Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 12:09:06 -0700
                          Subject: [7mm NGA] RE: Ffestiniog Railway 4 Ton End Van



                          Ron,
                           
                          I wouldn't put too much faith in the Lloyd projection in Boyd - funny things happen to scale and so on!
                           
                          Let's see whether, pending the photo, I can help with some words.  These are based upon my intimate acquaintance with the surviving Van 154 which we used as a store during the recent FR Kids Week!  My measurements are approximate - Peter Swift, who mastered the PW kit, took his measurements from Van 154 itself,so I think we may trust the dimensional accuracy of the kit! 
                           
                          For the purposes of this exercise, imagine you are stood facing the end door of the van.
                          The right hand door bears two hinge straps, substantial piece of ironwork, running from the outer edge right up to the middle margin.
                          At their outer ends these straps are doubled, forming the hinges.  The representation on the kit is adequate in this respect, IMHO.
                          About three inches in from the middle margin, and again about nine inches further to the right, each strap has an iron casting that projects, horizontally from the strap and has a vertical hole in it (in effect, a staple), to accept a cast iron pin, about four inches long and retained by a fine chain.  There should be four of these, two up and two down.
                          On the left hand door the hinge straps extend to the middle margin and then, by way of a modest joggle, further across the right hand door by about 15 in, far enough to cover the two cast staples.  Each hinge strap projection has two holes that fit over the staples, leaving the holes exposed for the insertion of the pins.
                          In the middle of the two innermost planks of each door, midway between the two hinge straps, are a pair of modest, forged, 'cupboard' handles - I suspect it is these you want details of and can best describe them as about 4 in long over the aperture and standing about1.5 in prouod of the doors.  
                          These handles are not on the kit (they won't cast, however clever Phil may be!)  Nor are the pins and fine chains.
                           
                          I would represent the fine chains with two strands of the finest copper from 3amp cable twisted together and the pins & staples with 0.3mm wire, but even that might be overscale.
                          Making the 'cupboard' handles from 0.3mm wire, or finer, will refine the appearance of the kit.
                           
                          I hope all that waffle helps!
                           
                          Regards,
                           
                          Adrian 
                           
                           
                           
                           

                          ---In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, <7mmnga@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                          Hi,
                           
                          I'm just in the process of making the Port Wynn Stay model of the 4 ton end van, and wondered if anyone could tell me where I might find a decent photo of the end doors showing the style of the door handles.
                           
                          Many thanks for any help.
                           
                          Ron Houghton




                        • Ron Houghton
                          Adrian, Interesting comments.............................. Ron To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com From: adrian@pound25.freeserve.co.uk Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 12:26:26
                          Message 12 of 15 , Oct 7, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Adrian,
                             
                            Interesting comments..............................
                             
                            Ron
                             

                            To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
                            From: adrian@...
                            Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 12:26:26 -0700
                            Subject: [7mm NGA] RE: Ffestiniog Railway 4 Ton End Van



                             


                          • ronhoughton85
                            Hi Adrian, Have just found the photos that you sent recently, and very useful. Thank you for your help. My only problem now is that I do not seem to be able to
                            Message 13 of 15 , Oct 12, 2013
                            • 0 Attachment

                              Hi Adrian,

                               

                              Have just found the photos that you sent recently, and very useful. Thank you for your help.

                              My only problem now is that I do not seem to be able to download them. With the format of the site changing is there something that I need to do to allow me to download photos?

                              Cheers

                              Ron 



                              ---In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, <houghtonron@...> wrote:

                              Adrian,
                               
                              Interesting comments..............................
                               
                              Ron
                               
                              To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
                              From: adrian@...
                              Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 12:26:26 -0700
                              Subject: [7mm NGA] RE: Ffestiniog Railway 4 Ton End Van



                               
                              Ron,
                               
                              I've only ust scanned the photograph.  In order to make the help available to anyone else who might wish to improve the detailing of their Port Wynnstay kit for the FR End Door Van I have loaded two images to the Photos section of this Group.
                              The album is called FR End Door Van and there are two images, a general, almost three-quarter, view and a high resolution scan of the end doors, itended to illustrate my earlier written description of the arrangement of the door's ironwork.
                              I hope they give you enough to model the handles.
                               
                              Adrian
                               
                               
                              ---In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, <houghtonron@...> wrote:

                              Hi Adrian,
                               
                              Not sure I got the message...................................
                               
                              Cheers
                               
                              Ron
                               
                              To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
                              From: adrian@...
                              Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 14:32:25 -0700
                              Subject: RE: RE: [7mm NGA] RE: Ffestiniog Railway 4 Ton End Van



                               
                              Ron,
                              You're welcome.
                              154 was never in Spooners but, a good few years ago, it did spend some time on the platform outside as a store for the patio furniture - it was roughly on the present alignment of the RhE tracks.
                              The only van to have had a place indoors was the Hearse, when the area now Spooners was a proper Museum.
                              Photo later this week, but I need your email address, please.
                               
                              Adrian
                               
                               

                              ---In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, <7mmnga@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                              Hi Adrian,
                               
                              Many thanks for the time you have taken to answer my question, and the information is most useful and I think I have understood everything you have said.
                               
                              However, when you have the time a photo would be most appreciated.
                               
                              I must admit that I thought I had a photo of 154 which I took some years ago , but for the life of me I couldn't find yesterday when I was looking through my collection. Was the van ever on display in Spooner's?
                               
                              Kind regards
                               
                              Ron
                               
                              To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
                              From: adrian@...
                              Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 12:09:06 -0700
                              Subject: [7mm NGA] RE: Ffestiniog Railway 4 Ton End Van



                              Ron,
                               
                              I wouldn't put too much faith in the Lloyd projection in Boyd - funny things happen to scale and so on!
                               
                              Let's see whether, pending the photo, I can help with some words.  These are based upon my intimate acquaintance with the surviving Van 154 which we used as a store during the recent FR Kids Week!  My measurements are approximate - Peter Swift, who mastered the PW kit, took his measurements from Van 154 itself,so I think we may trust the dimensional accuracy of the kit! 
                               
                              For the purposes of this exercise, imagine you are stood facing the end door of the van.
                              The right hand door bears two hinge straps, substantial piece of ironwork, running from the outer edge right up to the middle margin.
                              At their outer ends these straps are doubled, forming the hinges.  The representation on the kit is adequate in this respect, IMHO.
                              About three inches in from the middle margin, and again about nine inches further to the right, each strap has an iron casting that projects, horizontally from the strap and has a vertical hole in it (in effect, a staple), to accept a cast iron pin, about four inches long and retained by a fine chain.  There should be four of these, two up and two down.
                              On the left hand door the hinge straps extend to the middle margin and then, by way of a modest joggle, further across the right hand door by about 15 in, far enough to cover the two cast staples.  Each hinge strap projection has two holes that fit over the staples, leaving the holes exposed for the insertion of the pins.
                              In the middle of the two innermost planks of each door, midway between the two hinge straps, are a pair of modest, forged, 'cupboard' handles - I suspect it is these you want details of and can best describe them as about 4 in long over the aperture and standing about1.5 in prouod of the doors.  
                              These handles are not on the kit (they won't cast, however clever Phil may be!)  Nor are the pins and fine chains.
                               
                              I would represent the fine chains with two strands of the finest copper from 3amp cable twisted together and the pins & staples with 0.3mm wire, but even that might be overscale.
                              Making the 'cupboard' handles from 0.3mm wire, or finer, will refine the appearance of the kit.
                               
                              I hope all that waffle helps!
                               
                              Regards,
                               
                              Adrian 
                               
                               
                               
                               

                              ---In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, <7mmnga@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                              Hi,
                               
                              I'm just in the process of making the Port Wynn Stay model of the 4 ton end van, and wondered if anyone could tell me where I might find a decent photo of the end doors showing the style of the door handles.
                               
                              Many thanks for any help.
                               
                              Ron Houghton






                            • diggypatch
                              Hi! If you visit the group you can see the photo, click on it and it will open the gallery. If you click on the photo it opens the pair of pics. Click on the
                              Message 14 of 15 , Oct 12, 2013
                              • 0 Attachment

                                 Hi!

                                If you visit the group you can see the photo, click on it and it will open the gallery. If you click on the photo it opens the pair of pics. Click on the 'bathtub with down arrow' at the bottom of the pic and download to your file! Hope this helps, Robert from a sunny Gloucestershire! No. 2823



                                ---In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, <7mmnga@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                Hi Adrian,

                                 

                                Have just found the photos that you sent recently, and very useful. Thank you for your help.

                                My only problem now is that I do not seem to be able to download them. With the format of the site changing is there something that I need to do to allow me to download photos?

                                Cheers

                                Ron 



                                ---In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, <houghtonron@...> wrote:

                                Adrian,
                                 
                                Interesting comments..............................
                                 
                                Ron
                                 
                                To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
                                From: adrian@...
                                Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 12:26:26 -0700
                                Subject: [7mm NGA] RE: Ffestiniog Railway 4 Ton End Van



                                 
                                Ron,
                                 
                                I've only ust scanned the photograph.  In order to make the help available to anyone else who might wish to improve the detailing of their Port Wynnstay kit for the FR End Door Van I have loaded two images to the Photos section of this Group.
                                The album is called FR End Door Van and there are two images, a general, almost three-quarter, view and a high resolution scan of the end doors, itended to illustrate my earlier written description of the arrangement of the door's ironwork.
                                I hope they give you enough to model the handles.
                                 
                                Adrian
                                 
                                 
                                ---In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, <houghtonron@...> wrote:

                                Hi Adrian,
                                 
                                Not sure I got the message...................................
                                 
                                Cheers
                                 
                                Ron
                                 
                                To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
                                From: adrian@...
                                Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 14:32:25 -0700
                                Subject: RE: RE: [7mm NGA] RE: Ffestiniog Railway 4 Ton End Van



                                 
                                Ron,
                                You're welcome.
                                154 was never in Spooners but, a good few years ago, it did spend some time on the platform outside as a store for the patio furniture - it was roughly on the present alignment of the RhE tracks.
                                The only van to have had a place indoors was the Hearse, when the area now Spooners was a proper Museum.
                                Photo later this week, but I need your email address, please.
                                 
                                Adrian
                                 
                                 

                                ---In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, <7mmnga@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                Hi Adrian,
                                 
                                Many thanks for the time you have taken to answer my question, and the information is most useful and I think I have understood everything you have said.
                                 
                                However, when you have the time a photo would be most appreciated.
                                 
                                I must admit that I thought I had a photo of 154 which I took some years ago , but for the life of me I couldn't find yesterday when I was looking through my collection. Was the van ever on display in Spooner's?
                                 
                                Kind regards
                                 
                                Ron
                                 
                                To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
                                From: adrian@...
                                Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2013 12:09:06 -0700
                                Subject: [7mm NGA] RE: Ffestiniog Railway 4 Ton End Van



                                Ron,
                                 
                                I wouldn't put too much faith in the Lloyd projection in Boyd - funny things happen to scale and so on!
                                 
                                Let's see whether, pending the photo, I can help with some words.  These are based upon my intimate acquaintance with the surviving Van 154 which we used as a store during the recent FR Kids Week!  My measurements are approximate - Peter Swift, who mastered the PW kit, took his measurements from Van 154 itself,so I think we may trust the dimensional accuracy of the kit! 
                                 
                                For the purposes of this exercise, imagine you are stood facing the end door of the van.
                                The right hand door bears two hinge straps, substantial piece of ironwork, running from the outer edge right up to the middle margin.
                                At their outer ends these straps are doubled, forming the hinges.  The representation on the kit is adequate in this respect, IMHO.
                                About three inches in from the middle margin, and again about nine inches further to the right, each strap has an iron casting that projects, horizontally from the strap and has a vertical hole in it (in effect, a staple), to accept a cast iron pin, about four inches long and retained by a fine chain.  There should be four of these, two up and two down.
                                On the left hand door the hinge straps extend to the middle margin and then, by way of a modest joggle, further across the right hand door by about 15 in, far enough to cover the two cast staples.  Each hinge strap projection has two holes that fit over the staples, leaving the holes exposed for the insertion of the pins.
                                In the middle of the two innermost planks of each door, midway between the two hinge straps, are a pair of modest, forged, 'cupboard' handles - I suspect it is these you want details of and can best describe them as about 4 in long over the aperture and standing about1.5 in prouod of the doors.  
                                These handles are not on the kit (they won't cast, however clever Phil may be!)  Nor are the pins and fine chains.
                                 
                                I would represent the fine chains with two strands of the finest copper from 3amp cable twisted together and the pins & staples with 0.3mm wire, but even that might be overscale.
                                Making the 'cupboard' handles from 0.3mm wire, or finer, will refine the appearance of the kit.
                                 
                                I hope all that waffle helps!
                                 
                                Regards,
                                 
                                Adrian 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 

                                ---In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, <7mmnga@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                                Hi,
                                 
                                I'm just in the process of making the Port Wynn Stay model of the 4 ton end van, and wondered if anyone could tell me where I might find a decent photo of the end doors showing the style of the door handles.
                                 
                                Many thanks for any help.
                                 
                                Ron Houghton






                              • Ron Houghton
                                Morning, Many thanks for the info on how to print off the photos. Worked a treat. Kind regards Ron Houghton To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com From:
                                Message 15 of 15 , Oct 14, 2013
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Morning,
                                   
                                  Many thanks for the info on how to print off the photos. Worked a treat.
                                   
                                  Kind regards
                                   
                                  Ron Houghton
                                   

                                  To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
                                  From: diggypatch@...
                                  Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2013 07:45:20 -0700
                                  Subject: [7mm NGA] RE: RE: Ffestiniog Railway 4 Ton End Van



                                   Hi!
                                  If you visit the group you can see the photo, click on it and it will open the gallery. If you click on the photo it opens the pair of pics. Click on the 'bathtub with down arrow' at the bottom of the pic and download to your file! Hope this helps, Robert from a sunny Gloucestershire! No. 2823


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