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Re: [7mm NGA] Brass handrails

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  • rhbbob
    Nothing like a good memory, Frank ! It s still available albeit in quantities of 300 or 600 grams. Having searched t internet, the RMWeb came up with a
    Message 1 of 18 , Aug 23, 2013
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      Nothing like a good memory, Frank !

      It's still available albeit in quantities of 300 or 600 grams. Having searched t'internet, the RMWeb came up with a current discussion on DAS and a comment (by Allan Downes, no less) that DAS - our modern modelling clay -, is basically the same.

      I shall ask the question of them.

      Many thanks !
      Bob

      --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, Frank Hodsman <fghodsman@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi everyone, I've been followng the handrail saga and from the dim past (about
      > 40 years ago). I remember an article about a chap making ornate balconies
      > for a free lance bogie coach. He made a master balcony end and impressed it
      > onto a layer of Pyruma? fireback cement, allowed it to harden and removed the
      > master.
      > The indentations in the cement formed a jig to securely hold the next set of
      > build parts as he then asembled further balconies by using liquid solder and a
      > blow torch.
      > Hope the above is helpful,
      >
      > Frank Hodsman
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > > On 23 August 2013 at 12:14 rhbbob <surava@...> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Thank you, Rod
      > >
      > > I shall move the completed piece to the solder mat and try your hint!
      > >
      > > I have a small butane blow-torch which I struggle to keep alight but that is
      > > probably me rather than the tool!!
      > >
      > > Kind regards
      > > Bob
      > >
      > > --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com <mailto:7mmnga%40yahoogroups.com> , Rod
      > > Hutchinson <rodhutchy@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Hi Bob,
      > > >
      > > > Are you using resin core solder?
      > > > If so I would consider using very small amounts of solder paste. Paint it
      > > > on and perhaps heat with a small butane flame. It should provide finer
      > > > soldering.
      > > > Never the less, your work is quite impressive.
      > > >
      > > > Rod Hutchinson
      > > > Australia
      > > > On Aug 23, 2013 5:38 PM, "adriangrayfr" <adrian@>
      > > > wrote:
      > > >
      > > > > **
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Howard,
      > > > > Have you looked at the photos that were posted?
      > > > > Although I agree with some of what you suggest I think you are assuming
      > > > > loco handrails, whereas Bob is building what look like the rails for a
      > > > > carriage end balcony.
      > > > >
      > > > > Bob,
      > > > > If you want to stop your joints looking quite so bulky you _could_ put a
      > > > > modest nick into each piece of wire where they cross, use a fine swiss
      > > > > file
      > > > > with a rounded edge, gently, to creatre a 'half lap joint' (to use my old
      > > > > woodworking teacher's terminology). Then you'll greatly reduce the three
      > > > > dimensional effect that, I suspect, is not apparent on the real things
      > > > > which were probalby welded or used cast joining tees or crosses and lots
      > > > > of
      > > > > small bit of tube.
      > > > >
      > > > > I wonder what sort of solder you used. For work like this I like to use
      > > > > 145 degree melting solder. I find I can use a lot less and keep joints
      > > > > tidy
      > > > > as one doesn't need to dwell with the iron so long to get the brass up to
      > > > > temperature to 'take' the solder as one does if using 'normal' 188 degree
      > > > > solder.
      > > > >
      > > > > Just some thoughts. For a first time I think you've done very well to get
      > > > > such an even result.
      > > > >
      > > > > Keep trying, soldering is a LOT easier than many people would have you
      > > > > believe. somewhere back in the list of messaages on this Group is a
      > > > > wonderfully written and very helpful exposition on the subject by Paul
      > > > > Martin, well worth taking the time to trawl back and read carefully. If
      > > > > Paul Martin doesn't search, try ngtrains.
      > > > >
      > > > > Cheers
      > > > >
      > > > > Adrian
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com <mailto:7mmnga%40yahoogroups.com> , "Howard
      > > > > Clarke" <carrage32@> wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Hi Bob
      > > > > > Handrails - I use Premier Models (Bill Connell) brass handrails knobs,
      > > > > come short; medium and long.
      > > > > > For wire if your handrails are straight I use steel piano wire, far
      > > > > better than brass as it does not get bent with handling.
      > > > > > For brass wire I get mine from Eileens emporium 0.6mm - 1mm wire rather
      > > > > thick.
      > > > > > All available at GOG Telford 7/8 September.
      > > > > > See you there
      > > > > > Howard Clarke 215
      > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > > > > From: rhbbob
      > > > > > To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com <mailto:7mmnga%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > > > > Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 5:02 PM
      > > > > > Subject: [7mm NGA] Brass handrails
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > I have just added my first picture in an album called RhB Bob. After
      > > > > years of coping with plastic handrails of varying quality and strength I
      > > > > decided to take the plunge and see what I could do.....yes, the brass is
      > > > > fairly thick at 1 mm and the two items shown bear little resemblance to
      > > > > each other in dimensions !
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Any advice,thoughts, suggestions,laughter or abuse on such things as
      > > > > > jig
      > > > > creation can be shared here.......
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Bob
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • adriangrayfr
      My memory of using Pyruma was that it was slightly coarser than DAS but, if Allan Downes says it s the same I m not going to argue! The idea of using either
      Message 2 of 18 , Aug 23, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        My memory of using Pyruma was that it was slightly coarser than DAS but, if Allan Downes says it's the same I'm not going to argue!

        The idea of using either medium to make a jig for soldering repetitive items such as your handrails is inspired - well worth tucking away for when I want to do some FR footbridge handrails I think.

        Adrian

        --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "rhbbob" <surava@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > Nothing like a good memory, Frank !
        >
        > It's still available albeit in quantities of 300 or 600 grams. Having searched t'internet, the RMWeb came up with a current discussion on DAS and a comment (by Allan Downes, no less) that DAS - our modern modelling clay -, is basically the same.
        >
        > I shall ask the question of them.
        >
        > Many thanks !
        > Bob
        >
        > --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, Frank Hodsman <fghodsman@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hi everyone, I've been followng the handrail saga and from the dim past (about
        > > 40 years ago). I remember an article about a chap making ornate balconies
        > > for a free lance bogie coach. He made a master balcony end and impressed it
        > > onto a layer of Pyruma? fireback cement, allowed it to harden and removed the
        > > master.
        > > The indentations in the cement formed a jig to securely hold the next set of
        > > build parts as he then asembled further balconies by using liquid solder and a
        > > blow torch.
        > > Hope the above is helpful,
        > >
        > > Frank Hodsman
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > > On 23 August 2013 at 12:14 rhbbob <surava@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Thank you, Rod
        > > >
        > > > I shall move the completed piece to the solder mat and try your hint!
        > > >
        > > > I have a small butane blow-torch which I struggle to keep alight but that is
        > > > probably me rather than the tool!!
        > > >
        > > > Kind regards
        > > > Bob
        > > >
        > > > --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com <mailto:7mmnga%40yahoogroups.com> , Rod
        > > > Hutchinson <rodhutchy@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > Hi Bob,
        > > > >
        > > > > Are you using resin core solder?
        > > > > If so I would consider using very small amounts of solder paste. Paint it
        > > > > on and perhaps heat with a small butane flame. It should provide finer
        > > > > soldering.
        > > > > Never the less, your work is quite impressive.
        > > > >
        > > > > Rod Hutchinson
        > > > > Australia
        > > > > On Aug 23, 2013 5:38 PM, "adriangrayfr" <adrian@>
        > > > > wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > > **
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Howard,
        > > > > > Have you looked at the photos that were posted?
        > > > > > Although I agree with some of what you suggest I think you are assuming
        > > > > > loco handrails, whereas Bob is building what look like the rails for a
        > > > > > carriage end balcony.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Bob,
        > > > > > If you want to stop your joints looking quite so bulky you _could_ put a
        > > > > > modest nick into each piece of wire where they cross, use a fine swiss
        > > > > > file
        > > > > > with a rounded edge, gently, to creatre a 'half lap joint' (to use my old
        > > > > > woodworking teacher's terminology). Then you'll greatly reduce the three
        > > > > > dimensional effect that, I suspect, is not apparent on the real things
        > > > > > which were probalby welded or used cast joining tees or crosses and lots
        > > > > > of
        > > > > > small bit of tube.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I wonder what sort of solder you used. For work like this I like to use
        > > > > > 145 degree melting solder. I find I can use a lot less and keep joints
        > > > > > tidy
        > > > > > as one doesn't need to dwell with the iron so long to get the brass up to
        > > > > > temperature to 'take' the solder as one does if using 'normal' 188 degree
        > > > > > solder.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Just some thoughts. For a first time I think you've done very well to get
        > > > > > such an even result.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Keep trying, soldering is a LOT easier than many people would have you
        > > > > > believe. somewhere back in the list of messaages on this Group is a
        > > > > > wonderfully written and very helpful exposition on the subject by Paul
        > > > > > Martin, well worth taking the time to trawl back and read carefully. If
        > > > > > Paul Martin doesn't search, try ngtrains.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Cheers
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Adrian
        > > > > >
        > > > > > --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com <mailto:7mmnga%40yahoogroups.com> , "Howard
        > > > > > Clarke" <carrage32@> wrote:
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > Hi Bob
        > > > > > > Handrails - I use Premier Models (Bill Connell) brass handrails knobs,
        > > > > > come short; medium and long.
        > > > > > > For wire if your handrails are straight I use steel piano wire, far
        > > > > > better than brass as it does not get bent with handling.
        > > > > > > For brass wire I get mine from Eileens emporium 0.6mm - 1mm wire rather
        > > > > > thick.
        > > > > > > All available at GOG Telford 7/8 September.
        > > > > > > See you there
        > > > > > > Howard Clarke 215
        > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > > > > > From: rhbbob
        > > > > > > To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com <mailto:7mmnga%40yahoogroups.com>
        > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 5:02 PM
        > > > > > > Subject: [7mm NGA] Brass handrails
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > I have just added my first picture in an album called RhB Bob. After
        > > > > > years of coping with plastic handrails of varying quality and strength I
        > > > > > decided to take the plunge and see what I could do.....yes, the brass is
        > > > > > fairly thick at 1 mm and the two items shown bear little resemblance to
        > > > > > each other in dimensions !
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > Any advice,thoughts, suggestions,laughter or abuse on such things as
        > > > > > > jig
        > > > > > creation can be shared here.......
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > Bob
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        >
      • rhbbob
        I shall squander £2.99 for half a kilo at Ryman tomorrow and let you know how I get on ! Bob ... but, if Allan Downes says it s the same I m not going to
        Message 3 of 18 , Aug 23, 2013
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          I shall squander £2.99 for half a kilo at Ryman tomorrow and let you
          know how I get on !

          Bob

          --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "adriangrayfr" wrote:
          >
          > My memory of using Pyruma was that it was slightly coarser than DAS
          but, if Allan Downes says it's the same I'm not going to argue!
          >
          > The idea of using either medium to make a jig for soldering repetitive
          items such as your handrails is inspired - well worth tucking away for
          when I want to do some FR footbridge handrails I think.
          >
          > Adrian
          >
        • stephen
          ... I m not sure that s correct, Allan Downes or no.... fire cement is a mineral based compound with a definite sandy texture and sets like rock. DAS on the
          Message 4 of 18 , Aug 23, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "adriangrayfr" <adrian@...> wrote:
            >
            > My memory of using Pyruma was that it was slightly coarser than DAS but, if Allan Downes says it's the same I'm not going to argue!
            >
            >
            I'm not sure that's correct, Allan Downes or no.... fire cement is a mineral based compound with a definite sandy texture and sets like rock. DAS on the other hand is a softer and much finer material made (I believe) from pulped paper with a mineral additive - possibly china clay as it has a high mica content and what might be gum arabic as a binder. When it dries it has the same properties as watercolour paper or card which is why it is so useful when using watercolour for modelling stone and brickwork. It is definitely not as hard as fire cement and I would question its heat retardant properties.

            Steve
          • Trevor Shaw
            Hi Steve, I m very much inclined to agree with what you say about the chemistry of Pyruma and Das. When I first came across Pyruma, about 50 years ago, it was
            Message 5 of 18 , Aug 23, 2013
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              Hi Steve,

              I'm very much inclined to agree with what you say about the chemistry of
              Pyruma and Das. When I first came across Pyruma, about 50 years ago, it was
              intended for fixing cracks in coal-burning fireplaces. Das has always been
              intended as a modelling clay. I know which I'd back as resistant to a
              blowlamp. Allan Downes is without doubt a good modeller -- but has he ever
              tried a blowlamp on Das?

              Trevor.

              _____

              From: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com [mailto:7mmnga@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
              stephen
              Sent: 23 August 2013 23:43
              To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [7mm NGA] Brass handrails






              --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com <mailto:7mmnga%40yahoogroups.com> ,
              "adriangrayfr" <adrian@...> wrote:
              >
              > My memory of using Pyruma was that it was slightly coarser than DAS but,
              if Allan Downes says it's the same I'm not going to argue!
              >
              >
              I'm not sure that's correct, Allan Downes or no.... fire cement is a mineral
              based compound with a definite sandy texture and sets like rock. DAS on the
              other hand is a softer and much finer material made (I believe) from pulped
              paper with a mineral additive - possibly china clay as it has a high mica
              content and what might be gum arabic as a binder. When it dries it has the
              same properties as watercolour paper or card which is why it is so useful
              when using watercolour for modelling stone and brickwork. It is definitely
              not as hard as fire cement and I would question its heat retardant
              properties.

              Steve




              _____

              No virus found in this message.
              Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
              Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3211/6599 - Release Date: 08/22/13



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Steve Cooper
              fire cement is still available, even been and queued have it. Steve Cooper KandSvideo & Photography Kathé News www.drinkallby.co.uk ... From: adriangrayfr
              Message 6 of 18 , Aug 28, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                fire cement is still available, even been and queued have it.

                Steve Cooper
                KandSvideo & Photography
                Kathé News

                www.drinkallby.co.uk
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "adriangrayfr" <adrian@...>
                To: <7mmnga@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 7:36 PM
                Subject: Re: [7mm NGA] Brass handrails


                My memory of using Pyruma was that it was slightly coarser than DAS but, if
                Allan Downes says it's the same I'm not going to argue!

                The idea of using either medium to make a jig for soldering repetitive items
                such as your handrails is inspired - well worth tucking away for when I want
                to do some FR footbridge handrails I think.

                Adrian

                --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "rhbbob" <surava@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                > Nothing like a good memory, Frank !
                >
                > It's still available albeit in quantities of 300 or 600 grams. Having
                > searched t'internet, the RMWeb came up with a current discussion on DAS
                > and a comment (by Allan Downes, no less) that DAS - our modern modelling
                > clay -, is basically the same.
                >
                > I shall ask the question of them.
                >
                > Many thanks !
                > Bob
                >
                > --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, Frank Hodsman <fghodsman@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Hi everyone, I've been followng the handrail saga and from the dim past
                > > (about
                > > 40 years ago). I remember an article about a chap making ornate
                > > balconies
                > > for a free lance bogie coach. He made a master balcony end and
                > > impressed it
                > > onto a layer of Pyruma? fireback cement, allowed it to harden and
                > > removed the
                > > master.
                > > The indentations in the cement formed a jig to securely hold the next
                > > set of
                > > build parts as he then asembled further balconies by using liquid solder
                > > and a
                > > blow torch.
                > > Hope the above is helpful,
                > >
                > > Frank Hodsman
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > > On 23 August 2013 at 12:14 rhbbob <surava@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Thank you, Rod
                > > >
                > > > I shall move the completed piece to the solder mat and try your hint!
                > > >
                > > > I have a small butane blow-torch which I struggle to keep alight but
                > > > that is
                > > > probably me rather than the tool!!
                > > >
                > > > Kind regards
                > > > Bob
                > > >
                > > > --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com <mailto:7mmnga%40yahoogroups.com> , Rod
                > > > Hutchinson <rodhutchy@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > Hi Bob,
                > > > >
                > > > > Are you using resin core solder?
                > > > > If so I would consider using very small amounts of solder paste.
                > > > Paint it
                > > > > on and perhaps heat with a small butane flame. It should provide
                > > > finer
                > > > > soldering.
                > > > > Never the less, your work is quite impressive.
                > > > >
                > > > > Rod Hutchinson
                > > > > Australia
                > > > > On Aug 23, 2013 5:38 PM, "adriangrayfr" <adrian@>
                > > > > wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > > **
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Howard,
                > > > > > Have you looked at the photos that were posted?
                > > > > > Although I agree with some of what you suggest I think you are
                > > > assuming
                > > > > > loco handrails, whereas Bob is building what look like the rails
                > > > for a
                > > > > > carriage end balcony.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Bob,
                > > > > > If you want to stop your joints looking quite so bulky you
                > > > _could_ put a
                > > > > > modest nick into each piece of wire where they cross, use a fine
                > > > swiss
                > > > > > file
                > > > > > with a rounded edge, gently, to creatre a 'half lap joint' (to
                > > > use my old
                > > > > > woodworking teacher's terminology). Then you'll greatly reduce
                > > > the three
                > > > > > dimensional effect that, I suspect, is not apparent on the real
                > > > things
                > > > > > which were probalby welded or used cast joining tees or crosses
                > > > and lots
                > > > > > of
                > > > > > small bit of tube.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > I wonder what sort of solder you used. For work like this I like
                > > > to use
                > > > > > 145 degree melting solder. I find I can use a lot less and keep
                > > > joints
                > > > > > tidy
                > > > > > as one doesn't need to dwell with the iron so long to get the
                > > > brass up to
                > > > > > temperature to 'take' the solder as one does if using 'normal'
                > > > 188 degree
                > > > > > solder.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Just some thoughts. For a first time I think you've done very
                > > > well to get
                > > > > > such an even result.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Keep trying, soldering is a LOT easier than many people would
                > > > have you
                > > > > > believe. somewhere back in the list of messaages on this Group is
                > > > a
                > > > > > wonderfully written and very helpful exposition on the subject by
                > > > Paul
                > > > > > Martin, well worth taking the time to trawl back and read
                > > > carefully. If
                > > > > > Paul Martin doesn't search, try ngtrains.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Cheers
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Adrian
                > > > > >
                > > > > > --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com <mailto:7mmnga%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                > > > "Howard
                > > > > > Clarke" <carrage32@> wrote:
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > Hi Bob
                > > > > > > Handrails - I use Premier Models (Bill Connell) brass handrails
                > > > knobs,
                > > > > > come short; medium and long.
                > > > > > > For wire if your handrails are straight I use steel piano wire,
                > > > far
                > > > > > better than brass as it does not get bent with handling.
                > > > > > > For brass wire I get mine from Eileens emporium 0.6mm - 1mm
                > > > wire rather
                > > > > > thick.
                > > > > > > All available at GOG Telford 7/8 September.
                > > > > > > See you there
                > > > > > > Howard Clarke 215
                > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > > > > > From: rhbbob
                > > > > > > To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com <mailto:7mmnga%40yahoogroups.com>
                > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 5:02 PM
                > > > > > > Subject: [7mm NGA] Brass handrails
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > I have just added my first picture in an album called RhB Bob.
                > > > After
                > > > > > years of coping with plastic handrails of varying quality and
                > > > strength I
                > > > > > decided to take the plunge and see what I could do.....yes, the
                > > > brass is
                > > > > > fairly thick at 1 mm and the two items shown bear little
                > > > resemblance to
                > > > > > each other in dimensions !
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > Any advice,thoughts, suggestions,laughter or abuse on such
                > > > things as
                > > > > > > jig
                > > > > > creation can be shared here.......
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > Bob
                > > > > > >
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              • rhbbob
                I have persevered with the DAS and I will soon post a further picture of a simple handrail set-up. The DAS does discolour slightly where the iron touches it
                Message 7 of 18 , Sep 2, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  I have persevered with the DAS and I will soon post a further picture of a simple handrail set-up. The DAS does discolour slightly where the iron touches it but as Steve knows, I am to soldering what Patrick Moore was to hang-gliding so it's a small price to pay.

                  However I will also have a look in B&Q for the fire cement and see if I can do a comparison.

                  Bob

                  --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Cooper" <diverse25@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > fire cement is still available, even been and queued have it.
                  >
                  > Steve Cooper
                  > KandSvideo & Photography
                  > Kathé News
                  >
                  > www.drinkallby.co.uk
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: "adriangrayfr" <adrian@...>
                  > To: <7mmnga@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 7:36 PM
                  > Subject: Re: [7mm NGA] Brass handrails
                  >
                  >
                  > My memory of using Pyruma was that it was slightly coarser than DAS but, if
                  > Allan Downes says it's the same I'm not going to argue!
                  >
                  > The idea of using either medium to make a jig for soldering repetitive items
                  > such as your handrails is inspired - well worth tucking away for when I want
                  > to do some FR footbridge handrails I think.
                  >
                  > Adrian
                  >
                  > --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "rhbbob" <surava@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Nothing like a good memory, Frank !
                  > >
                  > > It's still available albeit in quantities of 300 or 600 grams. Having
                  > > searched t'internet, the RMWeb came up with a current discussion on DAS
                  > > and a comment (by Allan Downes, no less) that DAS - our modern modelling
                  > > clay -, is basically the same.
                  > >
                  > > I shall ask the question of them.
                  > >
                  > > Many thanks !
                  > > Bob
                  > >
                  > > --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, Frank Hodsman <fghodsman@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Hi everyone, I've been followng the handrail saga and from the dim past
                  > > > (about
                  > > > 40 years ago). I remember an article about a chap making ornate
                  > > > balconies
                  > > > for a free lance bogie coach. He made a master balcony end and
                  > > > impressed it
                  > > > onto a layer of Pyruma? fireback cement, allowed it to harden and
                  > > > removed the
                  > > > master.
                  > > > The indentations in the cement formed a jig to securely hold the next
                  > > > set of
                  > > > build parts as he then asembled further balconies by using liquid solder
                  > > > and a
                  > > > blow torch.
                  > > > Hope the above is helpful,
                  > > >
                  > > > Frank Hodsman
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > > On 23 August 2013 at 12:14 rhbbob <surava@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Thank you, Rod
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I shall move the completed piece to the solder mat and try your hint!
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I have a small butane blow-torch which I struggle to keep alight but
                  > > > > that is
                  > > > > probably me rather than the tool!!
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Kind regards
                  > > > > Bob
                  > > > >
                  > > > > --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com <mailto:7mmnga%40yahoogroups.com> , Rod
                  > > > > Hutchinson <rodhutchy@> wrote:
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Hi Bob,
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Are you using resin core solder?
                  > > > > > If so I would consider using very small amounts of solder paste.
                  > > > > Paint it
                  > > > > > on and perhaps heat with a small butane flame. It should provide
                  > > > > finer
                  > > > > > soldering.
                  > > > > > Never the less, your work is quite impressive.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Rod Hutchinson
                  > > > > > Australia
                  > > > > > On Aug 23, 2013 5:38 PM, "adriangrayfr" <adrian@>
                  > > > > > wrote:
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > > **
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > Howard,
                  > > > > > > Have you looked at the photos that were posted?
                  > > > > > > Although I agree with some of what you suggest I think you are
                  > > > > assuming
                  > > > > > > loco handrails, whereas Bob is building what look like the rails
                  > > > > for a
                  > > > > > > carriage end balcony.
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > Bob,
                  > > > > > > If you want to stop your joints looking quite so bulky you
                  > > > > _could_ put a
                  > > > > > > modest nick into each piece of wire where they cross, use a fine
                  > > > > swiss
                  > > > > > > file
                  > > > > > > with a rounded edge, gently, to creatre a 'half lap joint' (to
                  > > > > use my old
                  > > > > > > woodworking teacher's terminology). Then you'll greatly reduce
                  > > > > the three
                  > > > > > > dimensional effect that, I suspect, is not apparent on the real
                  > > > > things
                  > > > > > > which were probalby welded or used cast joining tees or crosses
                  > > > > and lots
                  > > > > > > of
                  > > > > > > small bit of tube.
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > I wonder what sort of solder you used. For work like this I like
                  > > > > to use
                  > > > > > > 145 degree melting solder. I find I can use a lot less and keep
                  > > > > joints
                  > > > > > > tidy
                  > > > > > > as one doesn't need to dwell with the iron so long to get the
                  > > > > brass up to
                  > > > > > > temperature to 'take' the solder as one does if using 'normal'
                  > > > > 188 degree
                  > > > > > > solder.
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > Just some thoughts. For a first time I think you've done very
                  > > > > well to get
                  > > > > > > such an even result.
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > Keep trying, soldering is a LOT easier than many people would
                  > > > > have you
                  > > > > > > believe. somewhere back in the list of messaages on this Group is
                  > > > > a
                  > > > > > > wonderfully written and very helpful exposition on the subject by
                  > > > > Paul
                  > > > > > > Martin, well worth taking the time to trawl back and read
                  > > > > carefully. If
                  > > > > > > Paul Martin doesn't search, try ngtrains.
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > Cheers
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > Adrian
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com <mailto:7mmnga%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                  > > > > "Howard
                  > > > > > > Clarke" <carrage32@> wrote:
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > Hi Bob
                  > > > > > > > Handrails - I use Premier Models (Bill Connell) brass handrails
                  > > > > knobs,
                  > > > > > > come short; medium and long.
                  > > > > > > > For wire if your handrails are straight I use steel piano wire,
                  > > > > far
                  > > > > > > better than brass as it does not get bent with handling.
                  > > > > > > > For brass wire I get mine from Eileens emporium 0.6mm - 1mm
                  > > > > wire rather
                  > > > > > > thick.
                  > > > > > > > All available at GOG Telford 7/8 September.
                  > > > > > > > See you there
                  > > > > > > > Howard Clarke 215
                  > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > > > > > > From: rhbbob
                  > > > > > > > To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com <mailto:7mmnga%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 5:02 PM
                  > > > > > > > Subject: [7mm NGA] Brass handrails
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > I have just added my first picture in an album called RhB Bob.
                  > > > > After
                  > > > > > > years of coping with plastic handrails of varying quality and
                  > > > > strength I
                  > > > > > > decided to take the plunge and see what I could do.....yes, the
                  > > > > brass is
                  > > > > > > fairly thick at 1 mm and the two items shown bear little
                  > > > > resemblance to
                  > > > > > > each other in dimensions !
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > Any advice,thoughts, suggestions,laughter or abuse on such
                  > > > > things as
                  > > > > > > > jig
                  > > > > > > creation can be shared here.......
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > Bob
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
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