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RE: [7mm NGA] Brass handrails

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  • Frank Sharp
    Bob, This has a high scrap rate but, Buy Alan Gibson handrail knobs of indeterminate length. You get the ball on a spigot and some very fine washers as the
    Message 1 of 18 , Aug 22, 2013
      Bob,



      This has a high scrap rate but,



      Buy Alan Gibson handrail knobs of indeterminate length. You get the 'ball'
      on a spigot and some very fine 'washers' as the bases, so you can make the
      knobs any length you want. Put the spigot in a chuck to hold it and drill
      the knob at right angles to the existing hole. That is appreciably easy to
      write than do, hence the scrap rate. Try from both sides rather than trying
      to go all the way through. Drill holes in a block of hard wood to suit your
      pattern and insert the spigots. Run wire through some holes and join the
      others with short lengths. Dab with solder paint and apply iron. Pull out
      and cut off spigots. I've only tried this a couple of times and last time I
      disturbed the set up so much with a soldering iron I wafted a gas torch over
      it.



      As you have the hole pattern it is repeatable but a bl**dy fiddle.



      Frank





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • DAVID
      Bob, I d be very happy to have produced something like this: well done. I ve no experience of doing it, but now that you ve made a couple, could you not use
      Message 2 of 18 , Aug 23, 2013
        Bob,

        I'd be very happy to have produced something like this: well done. I've
        no experience of doing it, but now that you've made a couple, could you
        not use one to create a template? Lie the original on a bit of ply, and
        use thick card to fill the gaps. Take the original away and you have
        channels into which rod cut to size can be placed and taped with no
        overlap at the crosses. Solder sparingly and you're your uncle!

        David H, #1603
      • rhbbob
        David, thanks ! A card template sounds like a very good idea ! Bob
        Message 3 of 18 , Aug 23, 2013
          David, thanks !

          A card template sounds like a very good idea !

          Bob

          --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "DAVID" <formerchurchwarden@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > Bob,
          >
          > I'd be very happy to have produced something like this: well done. I've
          > no experience of doing it, but now that you've made a couple, could you
          > not use one to create a template? Lie the original on a bit of ply, and
          > use thick card to fill the gaps. Take the original away and you have
          > channels into which rod cut to size can be placed and taped with no
          > overlap at the crosses. Solder sparingly and you're your uncle!
          >
          > David H, #1603
          >
        • rhbbob
          Thanks, Adrian and Howard Yes, I am in the world of diesels and electrics and these are front and rear handrails not suited to Howard s suggestions for
          Message 4 of 18 , Aug 23, 2013
            Thanks, Adrian and Howard

            Yes, I am in the world of diesels and electrics and these are front and rear handrails not suited to Howard's suggestions for handrail knobs ! All I can say is 'thanks' and, of course, it is a yellow diesel!

            I will create a template and see if I can standardise the measurements.

            Thanks again
            Bob

            --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "adriangrayfr" <adrian@...> wrote:
            >
            > Howard,
            > Have you looked at the photos that were posted?
            > Although I agree with some of what you suggest I think you are assuming loco handrails, whereas Bob is building what look like the rails for a carriage end balcony.
            >
            > Bob,
            > If you want to stop your joints looking quite so bulky you _could_ put a modest nick into each piece of wire where they cross, use a fine swiss file with a rounded edge, gently, to creatre a 'half lap joint' (to use my old woodworking teacher's terminology). Then you'll greatly reduce the three dimensional effect that, I suspect, is not apparent on the real things which were probalby welded or used cast joining tees or crosses and lots of small bit of tube.
            >
            > I wonder what sort of solder you used. For work like this I like to use 145 degree melting solder. I find I can use a lot less and keep joints tidy as one doesn't need to dwell with the iron so long to get the brass up to temperature to 'take' the solder as one does if using 'normal' 188 degree solder.
            >
            > Just some thoughts. For a first time I think you've done very well to get such an even result.
            >
            > Keep trying, soldering is a LOT easier than many people would have you believe. somewhere back in the list of messaages on this Group is a wonderfully written and very helpful exposition on the subject by Paul Martin, well worth taking the time to trawl back and read carefully. If Paul Martin doesn't search, try ngtrains.
            >
            > Cheers
            >
            > Adrian
            >
            > --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Clarke" <carrage32@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi Bob
            > > Handrails - I use Premier Models (Bill Connell) brass handrails knobs, come short; medium and long.
            > > For wire if your handrails are straight I use steel piano wire, far better than brass as it does not get bent with handling.
            > > For brass wire I get mine from Eileens emporium 0.6mm - 1mm wire rather thick.
            > > All available at GOG Telford 7/8 September.
            > > See you there
            > > Howard Clarke 215
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: rhbbob
            > > To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
            > > Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 5:02 PM
            > > Subject: [7mm NGA] Brass handrails
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > I have just added my first picture in an album called RhB Bob. After years of coping with plastic handrails of varying quality and strength I decided to take the plunge and see what I could do.....yes, the brass is fairly thick at 1 mm and the two items shown bear little resemblance to each other in dimensions !
            > >
            > > Any advice,thoughts, suggestions,laughter or abuse on such things as jig creation can be shared here.......
            > >
            > > Bob
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
          • Rod Hutchinson
            Hi Bob, Are you using resin core solder? If so I would consider using very small amounts of solder paste. Paint it on and perhaps heat with a small butane
            Message 5 of 18 , Aug 23, 2013
              Hi Bob,

              Are you using resin core solder?
              If so I would consider using very small amounts of solder paste. Paint it
              on and perhaps heat with a small butane flame. It should provide finer
              soldering.
              Never the less, your work is quite impressive.

              Rod Hutchinson
              Australia
              On Aug 23, 2013 5:38 PM, "adriangrayfr" <adrian@...>
              wrote:

              > **
              >
              >
              > Howard,
              > Have you looked at the photos that were posted?
              > Although I agree with some of what you suggest I think you are assuming
              > loco handrails, whereas Bob is building what look like the rails for a
              > carriage end balcony.
              >
              > Bob,
              > If you want to stop your joints looking quite so bulky you _could_ put a
              > modest nick into each piece of wire where they cross, use a fine swiss file
              > with a rounded edge, gently, to creatre a 'half lap joint' (to use my old
              > woodworking teacher's terminology). Then you'll greatly reduce the three
              > dimensional effect that, I suspect, is not apparent on the real things
              > which were probalby welded or used cast joining tees or crosses and lots of
              > small bit of tube.
              >
              > I wonder what sort of solder you used. For work like this I like to use
              > 145 degree melting solder. I find I can use a lot less and keep joints tidy
              > as one doesn't need to dwell with the iron so long to get the brass up to
              > temperature to 'take' the solder as one does if using 'normal' 188 degree
              > solder.
              >
              > Just some thoughts. For a first time I think you've done very well to get
              > such an even result.
              >
              > Keep trying, soldering is a LOT easier than many people would have you
              > believe. somewhere back in the list of messaages on this Group is a
              > wonderfully written and very helpful exposition on the subject by Paul
              > Martin, well worth taking the time to trawl back and read carefully. If
              > Paul Martin doesn't search, try ngtrains.
              >
              > Cheers
              >
              > Adrian
              >
              > --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Clarke" <carrage32@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Hi Bob
              > > Handrails - I use Premier Models (Bill Connell) brass handrails knobs,
              > come short; medium and long.
              > > For wire if your handrails are straight I use steel piano wire, far
              > better than brass as it does not get bent with handling.
              > > For brass wire I get mine from Eileens emporium 0.6mm - 1mm wire rather
              > thick.
              > > All available at GOG Telford 7/8 September.
              > > See you there
              > > Howard Clarke 215
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > From: rhbbob
              > > To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
              > > Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 5:02 PM
              > > Subject: [7mm NGA] Brass handrails
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > I have just added my first picture in an album called RhB Bob. After
              > years of coping with plastic handrails of varying quality and strength I
              > decided to take the plunge and see what I could do.....yes, the brass is
              > fairly thick at 1 mm and the two items shown bear little resemblance to
              > each other in dimensions !
              > >
              > > Any advice,thoughts, suggestions,laughter or abuse on such things as jig
              > creation can be shared here.......
              > >
              > > Bob
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • rhbbob
              ....and, the easiest way should be:- 1. Stick the paper template onto a sheet of 1 mm card. 2. Cut out the outlines - the pieces that surround the handrails.
              Message 6 of 18 , Aug 23, 2013
                ....and, the easiest way should be:-
                1. Stick the paper template onto a sheet of 1 mm card.
                2. Cut out the 'outlines'- the pieces that surround the handrails.
                3. Stick these outlines onto another copy of the template.

                Bob

                --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "rhbbob" <surava@...> wrote:
                >
                > David, thanks !
                >
                > A card template sounds like a very good idea !
                >
                > Bob
                >
                > --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "DAVID" <formerchurchwarden@> wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > > Bob,
                > >
                > > I'd be very happy to have produced something like this: well done. I've
                > > no experience of doing it, but now that you've made a couple, could you
                > > not use one to create a template? Lie the original on a bit of ply, and
                > > use thick card to fill the gaps. Take the original away and you have
                > > channels into which rod cut to size can be placed and taped with no
                > > overlap at the crosses. Solder sparingly and you're your uncle!
                > >
                > > David H, #1603
                > >
                >
              • rhbbob
                Thank you, Rod I shall move the completed piece to the solder mat and try your hint! I have a small butane blow-torch which I struggle to keep alight but that
                Message 7 of 18 , Aug 23, 2013
                  Thank you, Rod

                  I shall move the completed piece to the solder mat and try your hint!

                  I have a small butane blow-torch which I struggle to keep alight but that is probably me rather than the tool!!

                  Kind regards
                  Bob

                  --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, Rod Hutchinson <rodhutchy@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi Bob,
                  >
                  > Are you using resin core solder?
                  > If so I would consider using very small amounts of solder paste. Paint it
                  > on and perhaps heat with a small butane flame. It should provide finer
                  > soldering.
                  > Never the less, your work is quite impressive.
                  >
                  > Rod Hutchinson
                  > Australia
                  > On Aug 23, 2013 5:38 PM, "adriangrayfr" <adrian@...>
                  > wrote:
                  >
                  > > **
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Howard,
                  > > Have you looked at the photos that were posted?
                  > > Although I agree with some of what you suggest I think you are assuming
                  > > loco handrails, whereas Bob is building what look like the rails for a
                  > > carriage end balcony.
                  > >
                  > > Bob,
                  > > If you want to stop your joints looking quite so bulky you _could_ put a
                  > > modest nick into each piece of wire where they cross, use a fine swiss file
                  > > with a rounded edge, gently, to creatre a 'half lap joint' (to use my old
                  > > woodworking teacher's terminology). Then you'll greatly reduce the three
                  > > dimensional effect that, I suspect, is not apparent on the real things
                  > > which were probalby welded or used cast joining tees or crosses and lots of
                  > > small bit of tube.
                  > >
                  > > I wonder what sort of solder you used. For work like this I like to use
                  > > 145 degree melting solder. I find I can use a lot less and keep joints tidy
                  > > as one doesn't need to dwell with the iron so long to get the brass up to
                  > > temperature to 'take' the solder as one does if using 'normal' 188 degree
                  > > solder.
                  > >
                  > > Just some thoughts. For a first time I think you've done very well to get
                  > > such an even result.
                  > >
                  > > Keep trying, soldering is a LOT easier than many people would have you
                  > > believe. somewhere back in the list of messaages on this Group is a
                  > > wonderfully written and very helpful exposition on the subject by Paul
                  > > Martin, well worth taking the time to trawl back and read carefully. If
                  > > Paul Martin doesn't search, try ngtrains.
                  > >
                  > > Cheers
                  > >
                  > > Adrian
                  > >
                  > > --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "Howard Clarke" <carrage32@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Hi Bob
                  > > > Handrails - I use Premier Models (Bill Connell) brass handrails knobs,
                  > > come short; medium and long.
                  > > > For wire if your handrails are straight I use steel piano wire, far
                  > > better than brass as it does not get bent with handling.
                  > > > For brass wire I get mine from Eileens emporium 0.6mm - 1mm wire rather
                  > > thick.
                  > > > All available at GOG Telford 7/8 September.
                  > > > See you there
                  > > > Howard Clarke 215
                  > > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > > From: rhbbob
                  > > > To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 5:02 PM
                  > > > Subject: [7mm NGA] Brass handrails
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > I have just added my first picture in an album called RhB Bob. After
                  > > years of coping with plastic handrails of varying quality and strength I
                  > > decided to take the plunge and see what I could do.....yes, the brass is
                  > > fairly thick at 1 mm and the two items shown bear little resemblance to
                  > > each other in dimensions !
                  > > >
                  > > > Any advice,thoughts, suggestions,laughter or abuse on such things as jig
                  > > creation can be shared here.......
                  > > >
                  > > > Bob
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • Frank Hodsman
                  Hi everyone, I ve been followng the handrail saga and from the dim past (about 40 years ago). I remember an article about a chap making ornate balconies for a
                  Message 8 of 18 , Aug 23, 2013
                    Hi everyone, I've been followng the handrail saga and from the dim past (about
                    40 years ago). I remember an article about a chap making ornate balconies
                    for a free lance bogie coach. He made a master balcony end and impressed it
                    onto a layer of Pyruma? fireback cement, allowed it to harden and removed the
                    master.
                    The indentations in the cement formed a jig to securely hold the next set of
                    build parts as he then asembled further balconies by using liquid solder and a
                    blow torch.
                    Hope the above is helpful,

                    Frank Hodsman





                    > On 23 August 2013 at 12:14 rhbbob <surava@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Thank you, Rod
                    >
                    > I shall move the completed piece to the solder mat and try your hint!
                    >
                    > I have a small butane blow-torch which I struggle to keep alight but that is
                    > probably me rather than the tool!!
                    >
                    > Kind regards
                    > Bob
                    >
                    > --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com <mailto:7mmnga%40yahoogroups.com> , Rod
                    > Hutchinson <rodhutchy@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hi Bob,
                    > >
                    > > Are you using resin core solder?
                    > > If so I would consider using very small amounts of solder paste. Paint it
                    > > on and perhaps heat with a small butane flame. It should provide finer
                    > > soldering.
                    > > Never the less, your work is quite impressive.
                    > >
                    > > Rod Hutchinson
                    > > Australia
                    > > On Aug 23, 2013 5:38 PM, "adriangrayfr" <adrian@...>
                    > > wrote:
                    > >
                    > > > **
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Howard,
                    > > > Have you looked at the photos that were posted?
                    > > > Although I agree with some of what you suggest I think you are assuming
                    > > > loco handrails, whereas Bob is building what look like the rails for a
                    > > > carriage end balcony.
                    > > >
                    > > > Bob,
                    > > > If you want to stop your joints looking quite so bulky you _could_ put a
                    > > > modest nick into each piece of wire where they cross, use a fine swiss
                    > > > file
                    > > > with a rounded edge, gently, to creatre a 'half lap joint' (to use my old
                    > > > woodworking teacher's terminology). Then you'll greatly reduce the three
                    > > > dimensional effect that, I suspect, is not apparent on the real things
                    > > > which were probalby welded or used cast joining tees or crosses and lots
                    > > > of
                    > > > small bit of tube.
                    > > >
                    > > > I wonder what sort of solder you used. For work like this I like to use
                    > > > 145 degree melting solder. I find I can use a lot less and keep joints
                    > > > tidy
                    > > > as one doesn't need to dwell with the iron so long to get the brass up to
                    > > > temperature to 'take' the solder as one does if using 'normal' 188 degree
                    > > > solder.
                    > > >
                    > > > Just some thoughts. For a first time I think you've done very well to get
                    > > > such an even result.
                    > > >
                    > > > Keep trying, soldering is a LOT easier than many people would have you
                    > > > believe. somewhere back in the list of messaages on this Group is a
                    > > > wonderfully written and very helpful exposition on the subject by Paul
                    > > > Martin, well worth taking the time to trawl back and read carefully. If
                    > > > Paul Martin doesn't search, try ngtrains.
                    > > >
                    > > > Cheers
                    > > >
                    > > > Adrian
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com <mailto:7mmnga%40yahoogroups.com> , "Howard
                    > > > Clarke" <carrage32@> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Hi Bob
                    > > > > Handrails - I use Premier Models (Bill Connell) brass handrails knobs,
                    > > > come short; medium and long.
                    > > > > For wire if your handrails are straight I use steel piano wire, far
                    > > > better than brass as it does not get bent with handling.
                    > > > > For brass wire I get mine from Eileens emporium 0.6mm - 1mm wire rather
                    > > > thick.
                    > > > > All available at GOG Telford 7/8 September.
                    > > > > See you there
                    > > > > Howard Clarke 215
                    > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > > > From: rhbbob
                    > > > > To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com <mailto:7mmnga%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > > > > Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 5:02 PM
                    > > > > Subject: [7mm NGA] Brass handrails
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > I have just added my first picture in an album called RhB Bob. After
                    > > > years of coping with plastic handrails of varying quality and strength I
                    > > > decided to take the plunge and see what I could do.....yes, the brass is
                    > > > fairly thick at 1 mm and the two items shown bear little resemblance to
                    > > > each other in dimensions !
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Any advice,thoughts, suggestions,laughter or abuse on such things as
                    > > > > jig
                    > > > creation can be shared here.......
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Bob
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >



                    >



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • rhbbob
                    Nothing like a good memory, Frank ! It s still available albeit in quantities of 300 or 600 grams. Having searched t internet, the RMWeb came up with a
                    Message 9 of 18 , Aug 23, 2013
                      Nothing like a good memory, Frank !

                      It's still available albeit in quantities of 300 or 600 grams. Having searched t'internet, the RMWeb came up with a current discussion on DAS and a comment (by Allan Downes, no less) that DAS - our modern modelling clay -, is basically the same.

                      I shall ask the question of them.

                      Many thanks !
                      Bob

                      --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, Frank Hodsman <fghodsman@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi everyone, I've been followng the handrail saga and from the dim past (about
                      > 40 years ago). I remember an article about a chap making ornate balconies
                      > for a free lance bogie coach. He made a master balcony end and impressed it
                      > onto a layer of Pyruma? fireback cement, allowed it to harden and removed the
                      > master.
                      > The indentations in the cement formed a jig to securely hold the next set of
                      > build parts as he then asembled further balconies by using liquid solder and a
                      > blow torch.
                      > Hope the above is helpful,
                      >
                      > Frank Hodsman
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > > On 23 August 2013 at 12:14 rhbbob <surava@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Thank you, Rod
                      > >
                      > > I shall move the completed piece to the solder mat and try your hint!
                      > >
                      > > I have a small butane blow-torch which I struggle to keep alight but that is
                      > > probably me rather than the tool!!
                      > >
                      > > Kind regards
                      > > Bob
                      > >
                      > > --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com <mailto:7mmnga%40yahoogroups.com> , Rod
                      > > Hutchinson <rodhutchy@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Hi Bob,
                      > > >
                      > > > Are you using resin core solder?
                      > > > If so I would consider using very small amounts of solder paste. Paint it
                      > > > on and perhaps heat with a small butane flame. It should provide finer
                      > > > soldering.
                      > > > Never the less, your work is quite impressive.
                      > > >
                      > > > Rod Hutchinson
                      > > > Australia
                      > > > On Aug 23, 2013 5:38 PM, "adriangrayfr" <adrian@>
                      > > > wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > > **
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Howard,
                      > > > > Have you looked at the photos that were posted?
                      > > > > Although I agree with some of what you suggest I think you are assuming
                      > > > > loco handrails, whereas Bob is building what look like the rails for a
                      > > > > carriage end balcony.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Bob,
                      > > > > If you want to stop your joints looking quite so bulky you _could_ put a
                      > > > > modest nick into each piece of wire where they cross, use a fine swiss
                      > > > > file
                      > > > > with a rounded edge, gently, to creatre a 'half lap joint' (to use my old
                      > > > > woodworking teacher's terminology). Then you'll greatly reduce the three
                      > > > > dimensional effect that, I suspect, is not apparent on the real things
                      > > > > which were probalby welded or used cast joining tees or crosses and lots
                      > > > > of
                      > > > > small bit of tube.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I wonder what sort of solder you used. For work like this I like to use
                      > > > > 145 degree melting solder. I find I can use a lot less and keep joints
                      > > > > tidy
                      > > > > as one doesn't need to dwell with the iron so long to get the brass up to
                      > > > > temperature to 'take' the solder as one does if using 'normal' 188 degree
                      > > > > solder.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Just some thoughts. For a first time I think you've done very well to get
                      > > > > such an even result.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Keep trying, soldering is a LOT easier than many people would have you
                      > > > > believe. somewhere back in the list of messaages on this Group is a
                      > > > > wonderfully written and very helpful exposition on the subject by Paul
                      > > > > Martin, well worth taking the time to trawl back and read carefully. If
                      > > > > Paul Martin doesn't search, try ngtrains.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Cheers
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Adrian
                      > > > >
                      > > > > --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com <mailto:7mmnga%40yahoogroups.com> , "Howard
                      > > > > Clarke" <carrage32@> wrote:
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Hi Bob
                      > > > > > Handrails - I use Premier Models (Bill Connell) brass handrails knobs,
                      > > > > come short; medium and long.
                      > > > > > For wire if your handrails are straight I use steel piano wire, far
                      > > > > better than brass as it does not get bent with handling.
                      > > > > > For brass wire I get mine from Eileens emporium 0.6mm - 1mm wire rather
                      > > > > thick.
                      > > > > > All available at GOG Telford 7/8 September.
                      > > > > > See you there
                      > > > > > Howard Clarke 215
                      > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > > > > From: rhbbob
                      > > > > > To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com <mailto:7mmnga%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > > > > > Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 5:02 PM
                      > > > > > Subject: [7mm NGA] Brass handrails
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > I have just added my first picture in an album called RhB Bob. After
                      > > > > years of coping with plastic handrails of varying quality and strength I
                      > > > > decided to take the plunge and see what I could do.....yes, the brass is
                      > > > > fairly thick at 1 mm and the two items shown bear little resemblance to
                      > > > > each other in dimensions !
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Any advice,thoughts, suggestions,laughter or abuse on such things as
                      > > > > > jig
                      > > > > creation can be shared here.......
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Bob
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • adriangrayfr
                      My memory of using Pyruma was that it was slightly coarser than DAS but, if Allan Downes says it s the same I m not going to argue! The idea of using either
                      Message 10 of 18 , Aug 23, 2013
                        My memory of using Pyruma was that it was slightly coarser than DAS but, if Allan Downes says it's the same I'm not going to argue!

                        The idea of using either medium to make a jig for soldering repetitive items such as your handrails is inspired - well worth tucking away for when I want to do some FR footbridge handrails I think.

                        Adrian

                        --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "rhbbob" <surava@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Nothing like a good memory, Frank !
                        >
                        > It's still available albeit in quantities of 300 or 600 grams. Having searched t'internet, the RMWeb came up with a current discussion on DAS and a comment (by Allan Downes, no less) that DAS - our modern modelling clay -, is basically the same.
                        >
                        > I shall ask the question of them.
                        >
                        > Many thanks !
                        > Bob
                        >
                        > --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, Frank Hodsman <fghodsman@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Hi everyone, I've been followng the handrail saga and from the dim past (about
                        > > 40 years ago). I remember an article about a chap making ornate balconies
                        > > for a free lance bogie coach. He made a master balcony end and impressed it
                        > > onto a layer of Pyruma? fireback cement, allowed it to harden and removed the
                        > > master.
                        > > The indentations in the cement formed a jig to securely hold the next set of
                        > > build parts as he then asembled further balconies by using liquid solder and a
                        > > blow torch.
                        > > Hope the above is helpful,
                        > >
                        > > Frank Hodsman
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > > On 23 August 2013 at 12:14 rhbbob <surava@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Thank you, Rod
                        > > >
                        > > > I shall move the completed piece to the solder mat and try your hint!
                        > > >
                        > > > I have a small butane blow-torch which I struggle to keep alight but that is
                        > > > probably me rather than the tool!!
                        > > >
                        > > > Kind regards
                        > > > Bob
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com <mailto:7mmnga%40yahoogroups.com> , Rod
                        > > > Hutchinson <rodhutchy@> wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Hi Bob,
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Are you using resin core solder?
                        > > > > If so I would consider using very small amounts of solder paste. Paint it
                        > > > > on and perhaps heat with a small butane flame. It should provide finer
                        > > > > soldering.
                        > > > > Never the less, your work is quite impressive.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Rod Hutchinson
                        > > > > Australia
                        > > > > On Aug 23, 2013 5:38 PM, "adriangrayfr" <adrian@>
                        > > > > wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > > **
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Howard,
                        > > > > > Have you looked at the photos that were posted?
                        > > > > > Although I agree with some of what you suggest I think you are assuming
                        > > > > > loco handrails, whereas Bob is building what look like the rails for a
                        > > > > > carriage end balcony.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Bob,
                        > > > > > If you want to stop your joints looking quite so bulky you _could_ put a
                        > > > > > modest nick into each piece of wire where they cross, use a fine swiss
                        > > > > > file
                        > > > > > with a rounded edge, gently, to creatre a 'half lap joint' (to use my old
                        > > > > > woodworking teacher's terminology). Then you'll greatly reduce the three
                        > > > > > dimensional effect that, I suspect, is not apparent on the real things
                        > > > > > which were probalby welded or used cast joining tees or crosses and lots
                        > > > > > of
                        > > > > > small bit of tube.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > I wonder what sort of solder you used. For work like this I like to use
                        > > > > > 145 degree melting solder. I find I can use a lot less and keep joints
                        > > > > > tidy
                        > > > > > as one doesn't need to dwell with the iron so long to get the brass up to
                        > > > > > temperature to 'take' the solder as one does if using 'normal' 188 degree
                        > > > > > solder.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Just some thoughts. For a first time I think you've done very well to get
                        > > > > > such an even result.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Keep trying, soldering is a LOT easier than many people would have you
                        > > > > > believe. somewhere back in the list of messaages on this Group is a
                        > > > > > wonderfully written and very helpful exposition on the subject by Paul
                        > > > > > Martin, well worth taking the time to trawl back and read carefully. If
                        > > > > > Paul Martin doesn't search, try ngtrains.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Cheers
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Adrian
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com <mailto:7mmnga%40yahoogroups.com> , "Howard
                        > > > > > Clarke" <carrage32@> wrote:
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > Hi Bob
                        > > > > > > Handrails - I use Premier Models (Bill Connell) brass handrails knobs,
                        > > > > > come short; medium and long.
                        > > > > > > For wire if your handrails are straight I use steel piano wire, far
                        > > > > > better than brass as it does not get bent with handling.
                        > > > > > > For brass wire I get mine from Eileens emporium 0.6mm - 1mm wire rather
                        > > > > > thick.
                        > > > > > > All available at GOG Telford 7/8 September.
                        > > > > > > See you there
                        > > > > > > Howard Clarke 215
                        > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                        > > > > > > From: rhbbob
                        > > > > > > To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com <mailto:7mmnga%40yahoogroups.com>
                        > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 5:02 PM
                        > > > > > > Subject: [7mm NGA] Brass handrails
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > I have just added my first picture in an album called RhB Bob. After
                        > > > > > years of coping with plastic handrails of varying quality and strength I
                        > > > > > decided to take the plunge and see what I could do.....yes, the brass is
                        > > > > > fairly thick at 1 mm and the two items shown bear little resemblance to
                        > > > > > each other in dimensions !
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > Any advice,thoughts, suggestions,laughter or abuse on such things as
                        > > > > > > jig
                        > > > > > creation can be shared here.......
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > Bob
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        >
                      • rhbbob
                        I shall squander £2.99 for half a kilo at Ryman tomorrow and let you know how I get on ! Bob ... but, if Allan Downes says it s the same I m not going to
                        Message 11 of 18 , Aug 23, 2013
                          I shall squander £2.99 for half a kilo at Ryman tomorrow and let you
                          know how I get on !

                          Bob

                          --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "adriangrayfr" wrote:
                          >
                          > My memory of using Pyruma was that it was slightly coarser than DAS
                          but, if Allan Downes says it's the same I'm not going to argue!
                          >
                          > The idea of using either medium to make a jig for soldering repetitive
                          items such as your handrails is inspired - well worth tucking away for
                          when I want to do some FR footbridge handrails I think.
                          >
                          > Adrian
                          >
                        • stephen
                          ... I m not sure that s correct, Allan Downes or no.... fire cement is a mineral based compound with a definite sandy texture and sets like rock. DAS on the
                          Message 12 of 18 , Aug 23, 2013
                            --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "adriangrayfr" <adrian@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > My memory of using Pyruma was that it was slightly coarser than DAS but, if Allan Downes says it's the same I'm not going to argue!
                            >
                            >
                            I'm not sure that's correct, Allan Downes or no.... fire cement is a mineral based compound with a definite sandy texture and sets like rock. DAS on the other hand is a softer and much finer material made (I believe) from pulped paper with a mineral additive - possibly china clay as it has a high mica content and what might be gum arabic as a binder. When it dries it has the same properties as watercolour paper or card which is why it is so useful when using watercolour for modelling stone and brickwork. It is definitely not as hard as fire cement and I would question its heat retardant properties.

                            Steve
                          • Trevor Shaw
                            Hi Steve, I m very much inclined to agree with what you say about the chemistry of Pyruma and Das. When I first came across Pyruma, about 50 years ago, it was
                            Message 13 of 18 , Aug 23, 2013
                              Hi Steve,

                              I'm very much inclined to agree with what you say about the chemistry of
                              Pyruma and Das. When I first came across Pyruma, about 50 years ago, it was
                              intended for fixing cracks in coal-burning fireplaces. Das has always been
                              intended as a modelling clay. I know which I'd back as resistant to a
                              blowlamp. Allan Downes is without doubt a good modeller -- but has he ever
                              tried a blowlamp on Das?

                              Trevor.

                              _____

                              From: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com [mailto:7mmnga@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                              stephen
                              Sent: 23 August 2013 23:43
                              To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [7mm NGA] Brass handrails






                              --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com <mailto:7mmnga%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                              "adriangrayfr" <adrian@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > My memory of using Pyruma was that it was slightly coarser than DAS but,
                              if Allan Downes says it's the same I'm not going to argue!
                              >
                              >
                              I'm not sure that's correct, Allan Downes or no.... fire cement is a mineral
                              based compound with a definite sandy texture and sets like rock. DAS on the
                              other hand is a softer and much finer material made (I believe) from pulped
                              paper with a mineral additive - possibly china clay as it has a high mica
                              content and what might be gum arabic as a binder. When it dries it has the
                              same properties as watercolour paper or card which is why it is so useful
                              when using watercolour for modelling stone and brickwork. It is definitely
                              not as hard as fire cement and I would question its heat retardant
                              properties.

                              Steve




                              _____

                              No virus found in this message.
                              Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                              Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3211/6599 - Release Date: 08/22/13



                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Steve Cooper
                              fire cement is still available, even been and queued have it. Steve Cooper KandSvideo & Photography Kathé News www.drinkallby.co.uk ... From: adriangrayfr
                              Message 14 of 18 , Aug 28, 2013
                                fire cement is still available, even been and queued have it.

                                Steve Cooper
                                KandSvideo & Photography
                                Kathé News

                                www.drinkallby.co.uk
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "adriangrayfr" <adrian@...>
                                To: <7mmnga@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 7:36 PM
                                Subject: Re: [7mm NGA] Brass handrails


                                My memory of using Pyruma was that it was slightly coarser than DAS but, if
                                Allan Downes says it's the same I'm not going to argue!

                                The idea of using either medium to make a jig for soldering repetitive items
                                such as your handrails is inspired - well worth tucking away for when I want
                                to do some FR footbridge handrails I think.

                                Adrian

                                --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "rhbbob" <surava@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Nothing like a good memory, Frank !
                                >
                                > It's still available albeit in quantities of 300 or 600 grams. Having
                                > searched t'internet, the RMWeb came up with a current discussion on DAS
                                > and a comment (by Allan Downes, no less) that DAS - our modern modelling
                                > clay -, is basically the same.
                                >
                                > I shall ask the question of them.
                                >
                                > Many thanks !
                                > Bob
                                >
                                > --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, Frank Hodsman <fghodsman@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Hi everyone, I've been followng the handrail saga and from the dim past
                                > > (about
                                > > 40 years ago). I remember an article about a chap making ornate
                                > > balconies
                                > > for a free lance bogie coach. He made a master balcony end and
                                > > impressed it
                                > > onto a layer of Pyruma? fireback cement, allowed it to harden and
                                > > removed the
                                > > master.
                                > > The indentations in the cement formed a jig to securely hold the next
                                > > set of
                                > > build parts as he then asembled further balconies by using liquid solder
                                > > and a
                                > > blow torch.
                                > > Hope the above is helpful,
                                > >
                                > > Frank Hodsman
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > > On 23 August 2013 at 12:14 rhbbob <surava@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > Thank you, Rod
                                > > >
                                > > > I shall move the completed piece to the solder mat and try your hint!
                                > > >
                                > > > I have a small butane blow-torch which I struggle to keep alight but
                                > > > that is
                                > > > probably me rather than the tool!!
                                > > >
                                > > > Kind regards
                                > > > Bob
                                > > >
                                > > > --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com <mailto:7mmnga%40yahoogroups.com> , Rod
                                > > > Hutchinson <rodhutchy@> wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Hi Bob,
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Are you using resin core solder?
                                > > > > If so I would consider using very small amounts of solder paste.
                                > > > Paint it
                                > > > > on and perhaps heat with a small butane flame. It should provide
                                > > > finer
                                > > > > soldering.
                                > > > > Never the less, your work is quite impressive.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Rod Hutchinson
                                > > > > Australia
                                > > > > On Aug 23, 2013 5:38 PM, "adriangrayfr" <adrian@>
                                > > > > wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > > **
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Howard,
                                > > > > > Have you looked at the photos that were posted?
                                > > > > > Although I agree with some of what you suggest I think you are
                                > > > assuming
                                > > > > > loco handrails, whereas Bob is building what look like the rails
                                > > > for a
                                > > > > > carriage end balcony.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Bob,
                                > > > > > If you want to stop your joints looking quite so bulky you
                                > > > _could_ put a
                                > > > > > modest nick into each piece of wire where they cross, use a fine
                                > > > swiss
                                > > > > > file
                                > > > > > with a rounded edge, gently, to creatre a 'half lap joint' (to
                                > > > use my old
                                > > > > > woodworking teacher's terminology). Then you'll greatly reduce
                                > > > the three
                                > > > > > dimensional effect that, I suspect, is not apparent on the real
                                > > > things
                                > > > > > which were probalby welded or used cast joining tees or crosses
                                > > > and lots
                                > > > > > of
                                > > > > > small bit of tube.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > I wonder what sort of solder you used. For work like this I like
                                > > > to use
                                > > > > > 145 degree melting solder. I find I can use a lot less and keep
                                > > > joints
                                > > > > > tidy
                                > > > > > as one doesn't need to dwell with the iron so long to get the
                                > > > brass up to
                                > > > > > temperature to 'take' the solder as one does if using 'normal'
                                > > > 188 degree
                                > > > > > solder.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Just some thoughts. For a first time I think you've done very
                                > > > well to get
                                > > > > > such an even result.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Keep trying, soldering is a LOT easier than many people would
                                > > > have you
                                > > > > > believe. somewhere back in the list of messaages on this Group is
                                > > > a
                                > > > > > wonderfully written and very helpful exposition on the subject by
                                > > > Paul
                                > > > > > Martin, well worth taking the time to trawl back and read
                                > > > carefully. If
                                > > > > > Paul Martin doesn't search, try ngtrains.
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Cheers
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Adrian
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com <mailto:7mmnga%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                                > > > "Howard
                                > > > > > Clarke" <carrage32@> wrote:
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > Hi Bob
                                > > > > > > Handrails - I use Premier Models (Bill Connell) brass handrails
                                > > > knobs,
                                > > > > > come short; medium and long.
                                > > > > > > For wire if your handrails are straight I use steel piano wire,
                                > > > far
                                > > > > > better than brass as it does not get bent with handling.
                                > > > > > > For brass wire I get mine from Eileens emporium 0.6mm - 1mm
                                > > > wire rather
                                > > > > > thick.
                                > > > > > > All available at GOG Telford 7/8 September.
                                > > > > > > See you there
                                > > > > > > Howard Clarke 215
                                > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                > > > > > > From: rhbbob
                                > > > > > > To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com <mailto:7mmnga%40yahoogroups.com>
                                > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 5:02 PM
                                > > > > > > Subject: [7mm NGA] Brass handrails
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > I have just added my first picture in an album called RhB Bob.
                                > > > After
                                > > > > > years of coping with plastic handrails of varying quality and
                                > > > strength I
                                > > > > > decided to take the plunge and see what I could do.....yes, the
                                > > > brass is
                                > > > > > fairly thick at 1 mm and the two items shown bear little
                                > > > resemblance to
                                > > > > > each other in dimensions !
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > Any advice,thoughts, suggestions,laughter or abuse on such
                                > > > things as
                                > > > > > > jig
                                > > > > > creation can be shared here.......
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > Bob
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > >
                                >
                              • rhbbob
                                I have persevered with the DAS and I will soon post a further picture of a simple handrail set-up. The DAS does discolour slightly where the iron touches it
                                Message 15 of 18 , Sep 2, 2013
                                  I have persevered with the DAS and I will soon post a further picture of a simple handrail set-up. The DAS does discolour slightly where the iron touches it but as Steve knows, I am to soldering what Patrick Moore was to hang-gliding so it's a small price to pay.

                                  However I will also have a look in B&Q for the fire cement and see if I can do a comparison.

                                  Bob

                                  --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Cooper" <diverse25@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > fire cement is still available, even been and queued have it.
                                  >
                                  > Steve Cooper
                                  > KandSvideo & Photography
                                  > Kathé News
                                  >
                                  > www.drinkallby.co.uk
                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > From: "adriangrayfr" <adrian@...>
                                  > To: <7mmnga@yahoogroups.com>
                                  > Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 7:36 PM
                                  > Subject: Re: [7mm NGA] Brass handrails
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > My memory of using Pyruma was that it was slightly coarser than DAS but, if
                                  > Allan Downes says it's the same I'm not going to argue!
                                  >
                                  > The idea of using either medium to make a jig for soldering repetitive items
                                  > such as your handrails is inspired - well worth tucking away for when I want
                                  > to do some FR footbridge handrails I think.
                                  >
                                  > Adrian
                                  >
                                  > --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "rhbbob" <surava@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Nothing like a good memory, Frank !
                                  > >
                                  > > It's still available albeit in quantities of 300 or 600 grams. Having
                                  > > searched t'internet, the RMWeb came up with a current discussion on DAS
                                  > > and a comment (by Allan Downes, no less) that DAS - our modern modelling
                                  > > clay -, is basically the same.
                                  > >
                                  > > I shall ask the question of them.
                                  > >
                                  > > Many thanks !
                                  > > Bob
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, Frank Hodsman <fghodsman@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Hi everyone, I've been followng the handrail saga and from the dim past
                                  > > > (about
                                  > > > 40 years ago). I remember an article about a chap making ornate
                                  > > > balconies
                                  > > > for a free lance bogie coach. He made a master balcony end and
                                  > > > impressed it
                                  > > > onto a layer of Pyruma? fireback cement, allowed it to harden and
                                  > > > removed the
                                  > > > master.
                                  > > > The indentations in the cement formed a jig to securely hold the next
                                  > > > set of
                                  > > > build parts as he then asembled further balconies by using liquid solder
                                  > > > and a
                                  > > > blow torch.
                                  > > > Hope the above is helpful,
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Frank Hodsman
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > > On 23 August 2013 at 12:14 rhbbob <surava@> wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Thank you, Rod
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > I shall move the completed piece to the solder mat and try your hint!
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > I have a small butane blow-torch which I struggle to keep alight but
                                  > > > > that is
                                  > > > > probably me rather than the tool!!
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Kind regards
                                  > > > > Bob
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com <mailto:7mmnga%40yahoogroups.com> , Rod
                                  > > > > Hutchinson <rodhutchy@> wrote:
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Hi Bob,
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Are you using resin core solder?
                                  > > > > > If so I would consider using very small amounts of solder paste.
                                  > > > > Paint it
                                  > > > > > on and perhaps heat with a small butane flame. It should provide
                                  > > > > finer
                                  > > > > > soldering.
                                  > > > > > Never the less, your work is quite impressive.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Rod Hutchinson
                                  > > > > > Australia
                                  > > > > > On Aug 23, 2013 5:38 PM, "adriangrayfr" <adrian@>
                                  > > > > > wrote:
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > **
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > Howard,
                                  > > > > > > Have you looked at the photos that were posted?
                                  > > > > > > Although I agree with some of what you suggest I think you are
                                  > > > > assuming
                                  > > > > > > loco handrails, whereas Bob is building what look like the rails
                                  > > > > for a
                                  > > > > > > carriage end balcony.
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > Bob,
                                  > > > > > > If you want to stop your joints looking quite so bulky you
                                  > > > > _could_ put a
                                  > > > > > > modest nick into each piece of wire where they cross, use a fine
                                  > > > > swiss
                                  > > > > > > file
                                  > > > > > > with a rounded edge, gently, to creatre a 'half lap joint' (to
                                  > > > > use my old
                                  > > > > > > woodworking teacher's terminology). Then you'll greatly reduce
                                  > > > > the three
                                  > > > > > > dimensional effect that, I suspect, is not apparent on the real
                                  > > > > things
                                  > > > > > > which were probalby welded or used cast joining tees or crosses
                                  > > > > and lots
                                  > > > > > > of
                                  > > > > > > small bit of tube.
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > I wonder what sort of solder you used. For work like this I like
                                  > > > > to use
                                  > > > > > > 145 degree melting solder. I find I can use a lot less and keep
                                  > > > > joints
                                  > > > > > > tidy
                                  > > > > > > as one doesn't need to dwell with the iron so long to get the
                                  > > > > brass up to
                                  > > > > > > temperature to 'take' the solder as one does if using 'normal'
                                  > > > > 188 degree
                                  > > > > > > solder.
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > Just some thoughts. For a first time I think you've done very
                                  > > > > well to get
                                  > > > > > > such an even result.
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > Keep trying, soldering is a LOT easier than many people would
                                  > > > > have you
                                  > > > > > > believe. somewhere back in the list of messaages on this Group is
                                  > > > > a
                                  > > > > > > wonderfully written and very helpful exposition on the subject by
                                  > > > > Paul
                                  > > > > > > Martin, well worth taking the time to trawl back and read
                                  > > > > carefully. If
                                  > > > > > > Paul Martin doesn't search, try ngtrains.
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > Cheers
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > Adrian
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com <mailto:7mmnga%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                                  > > > > "Howard
                                  > > > > > > Clarke" <carrage32@> wrote:
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > Hi Bob
                                  > > > > > > > Handrails - I use Premier Models (Bill Connell) brass handrails
                                  > > > > knobs,
                                  > > > > > > come short; medium and long.
                                  > > > > > > > For wire if your handrails are straight I use steel piano wire,
                                  > > > > far
                                  > > > > > > better than brass as it does not get bent with handling.
                                  > > > > > > > For brass wire I get mine from Eileens emporium 0.6mm - 1mm
                                  > > > > wire rather
                                  > > > > > > thick.
                                  > > > > > > > All available at GOG Telford 7/8 September.
                                  > > > > > > > See you there
                                  > > > > > > > Howard Clarke 215
                                  > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > > > > > > > From: rhbbob
                                  > > > > > > > To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com <mailto:7mmnga%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 5:02 PM
                                  > > > > > > > Subject: [7mm NGA] Brass handrails
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > I have just added my first picture in an album called RhB Bob.
                                  > > > > After
                                  > > > > > > years of coping with plastic handrails of varying quality and
                                  > > > > strength I
                                  > > > > > > decided to take the plunge and see what I could do.....yes, the
                                  > > > > brass is
                                  > > > > > > fairly thick at 1 mm and the two items shown bear little
                                  > > > > resemblance to
                                  > > > > > > each other in dimensions !
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > Any advice,thoughts, suggestions,laughter or abuse on such
                                  > > > > things as
                                  > > > > > > > jig
                                  > > > > > > creation can be shared here.......
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > Bob
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > >
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                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >
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