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Re: [7mmnga] OO gauge outdoor

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  • Julian Ashworth
    John, There has been quite a lot of discussion on the Yahoo 7mm modelling e-group on garden layouts, and it s a very good group from which I have learnt a
    Message 1 of 7 , Jul 11, 2003
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      John,
      There has been quite a lot of discussion on the Yahoo ''7mm modelling' e-group on garden layouts, and it's a very good group from which I have learnt a lot - I would recommend joining and searching through the old messages.
      Good luck,
      Julian


      john picton <johnmpicton@...> wrote:
      Dear Sirs, I have for many years been a keen modeller of Aeroplanes and Model Boats. I am also a very keen Gardener, due to ill health I am no longer able to dig the garden and plant vegetable which was my passion.We have a quite large garden about 45m X 8m, so there is plenty of room for a garden layout.It has be suggested to me that I should have a 32mm gauge system, but having looked at this it is beyond my finances ( we only have disability benefits to live on), however OO gauge would be a viable proposition as many friend have already offered track and other items and of course this system is quite cheap to buy.
      I would like to built in OO but scale up to 7mm Narrow gauge as these little Logos I find really intriguing.
      My basic need is for information regarding this type of system in the garden, i.e. do's and don'ts, best method of laying track etc, and also if any one has plans for Narrow gauge Logos that I could scale in order to build my own Logos.
      my best regards to you all John m Picton


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    • howard.ballard
      Hi John, My 7mmng layout is outdoors, on what used to be the rockery in our garden. That in itself is a good starting point as it is approx 2 ft above the
      Message 2 of 7 , Jul 14, 2003
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        Hi John,

        My 7mmng layout is outdoors, on what used to be the rockery in our garden. That in itself is a good starting point as it is approx 2 ft above the level of the lawn, and hence stops you from having to bend down all the time, and can be enjoyed from the relative comfort of a chair.

        Being outdoors has one great disadvantage... it's a seasonal occupation. Larger gauges may getaway with running in autumn & winter, but for anything on 00 track leaves on the line is a major obstacle, not to mention twigs or the like.

        A couple of pointers I would make though, Plan well and carefully before you cut the first sod. My layout runs partially in a cutting and partially on an embankment. The cutting is lined with a stone wall made of small stones ( from Stonecraft ltd) and until I did that landslides were too regular to allow reliable running. The cutting also has the disadvantage of being the place where the leaves collect and needs constant clearing even in summer. The embankment, in contrast and rather obviously, does not suffer these problems, but the track still needs cleaning before most running sessions, so I would suggest in planning the layout you think about accessibility. I have also heard of a 00 layout in the garden where the cutting was covered in winter by placing a length of guttering over it. I can't as mine's curved, but you might again like to think about that in the planning stage.

        Most of the civil engineering is set in concrete, with the track fixed to wooden piles or transverse "sleepers" liberally soaked in preservative. Experience suggests that ( particularly at rail length joints) the track would be better laid on a wooden longitudinal sleeper bedded into the concrete. Bridges (in my case viaduct) work well with a wooden trackbed which obviously makes them easier to make.

        I can't claim to be an expert but this is the 4th or 5th summer the layout has run and although there are often minor problems (uncoupling on a break of grade, engine sticking on dirty track) Peco track is pretty durable and the points motors are surface mounted under small buildings. Where I have not yet got round to constructing these buildings (there's always something else to do) the reliability of these exposed points motors does not seem to be too compromised, although they get a dose of WD40 a couple of times a year.)

        Rather than going into depth here about how I built my layout, what went well and what I would change, email me individually and I will try to answer any questions, I'll even include a photo or two to inspire you, but please remember I am not an expert, just a fellow traveller who has picked up some experience, and there are many more of us out there somewhere I expect. As someone else suggested, take some time to see how other scales have done it and gauge what will work and what will not. Essentially (apart form clearances) you are putting 00 in the garden from the track point of view, so what the 4mm boys have done is probably worth researching. I seem to recall a couple of articles in the RM a few years ago.

        In terms of plans for Locos, there are a number of these produced by the 7mmnga through their magazines and other publications. They also too give information on manufacturers of parts, kits etc, not all of which need to be expensive. I guess by your questions you are not a member yet, our website gives details.

        Regards


        Howard Ballard
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: john picton
        To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 11:19 AM
        Subject: [7mmnga] OO gauge outdoor


        Dear Sirs, I have for many years been a keen modeller of Aeroplanes and Model Boats. I am also a very keen Gardener, due to ill health I am no longer able to dig the garden and plant vegetable which was my passion.We have a quite large garden about 45m X 8m, so there is plenty of room for a garden layout.It has be suggested to me that I should have a 32mm gauge system, but having looked at this it is beyond my finances ( we only have disability benefits to live on), however OO gauge would be a viable proposition as many friend have already offered track and other items and of course this system is quite cheap to buy.
        I would like to built in OO but scale up to 7mm Narrow gauge as these little Logos I find really intriguing.
        My basic need is for information regarding this type of system in the garden, i.e. do's and don'ts, best method of laying track etc, and also if any one has plans for Narrow gauge Logos that I could scale in order to build my own Logos.
        my best regards to you all John m Picton


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      • Frank Metcalf
        Howard Ballard wrote:- ... If memory serves me right RM devote their August edition each year to rails in the garden of all scales. There is only just over a
        Message 3 of 7 , Jul 14, 2003
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          Howard Ballard wrote:-

          >I seem to recall a couple of articles in the RM a few years ago

          If memory serves me right RM devote their August edition each year to rails
          in the garden of all scales.

          There is only just over a week for the next edition to be published and
          there might be some ideas in it.

          Best wishes

          Frank Metcalf
        • john picton
          Hi Howard, Thank you for your most interesting e mail.Yours is the kind of advice that I am looking for and I will be contacting you again in the future, I
          Message 4 of 7 , Jul 14, 2003
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            Hi Howard, Thank you for your most interesting e mail.Yours is the kind of advice that I am looking for and I will be contacting you again in the future, I would like to see some photos of your layout in order to prove to her indoors that I will not be wrecking the garden. I have obtained several books from the local library on the subject and have purchased ' getting started' by Peco and there catalogue so I am absorbing info at quite a rate.Planning the system is at a very early stage, I have spent several days pacing up and down the garden trying to get a feel for the lay of the land as it were, and trying to decide the starting point. As the garden is rather long I intend to have two systems eventually, running up each side of the garden, I shall hopefully start the first line later this year and hope to have it running by next spring. The system will be rather unorthodox both in its construction and in the power for the system, the later is still experimental and so I will explain more when this has got past the prototype stage. I did think of joining the 7mm Narrow gauge Association and indeed contacted them, the reply I received put me off a bit as they did not recommend using oo gauge out doors and so I have not as yet pursued this. I am very keen to build my own Locos and as the power for these will be an unusual form I think, my first question to you is:- Can I build a 7mm Narrow Gauge Loco on a standard OO chassis ?
            Best Regards John Picton
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: howard.ballard
            To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 10:17 AM
            Subject: Re: [7mmnga] OO gauge outdoor


            Hi John,

            My 7mmng layout is outdoors, on what used to be the rockery in our garden. That in itself is a good starting point as it is approx 2 ft above the level of the lawn, and hence stops you from having to bend down all the time, and can be enjoyed from the relative comfort of a chair.

            Being outdoors has one great disadvantage... it's a seasonal occupation. Larger gauges may getaway with running in autumn & winter, but for anything on 00 track leaves on the line is a major obstacle, not to mention twigs or the like.

            A couple of pointers I would make though, Plan well and carefully before you cut the first sod. My layout runs partially in a cutting and partially on an embankment. The cutting is lined with a stone wall made of small stones ( from Stonecraft ltd) and until I did that landslides were too regular to allow reliable running. The cutting also has the disadvantage of being the place where the leaves collect and needs constant clearing even in summer. The embankment, in contrast and rather obviously, does not suffer these problems, but the track still needs cleaning before most running sessions, so I would suggest in planning the layout you think about accessibility. I have also heard of a 00 layout in the garden where the cutting was covered in winter by placing a length of guttering over it. I can't as mine's curved, but you might again like to think about that in the planning stage.

            Most of the civil engineering is set in concrete, with the track fixed to wooden piles or transverse "sleepers" liberally soaked in preservative. Experience suggests that ( particularly at rail length joints) the track would be better laid on a wooden longitudinal sleeper bedded into the concrete. Bridges (in my case viaduct) work well with a wooden trackbed which obviously makes them easier to make.

            I can't claim to be an expert but this is the 4th or 5th summer the layout has run and although there are often minor problems (uncoupling on a break of grade, engine sticking on dirty track) Peco track is pretty durable and the points motors are surface mounted under small buildings. Where I have not yet got round to constructing these buildings (there's always something else to do) the reliability of these exposed points motors does not seem to be too compromised, although they get a dose of WD40 a couple of times a year.)

            Rather than going into depth here about how I built my layout, what went well and what I would change, email me individually and I will try to answer any questions, I'll even include a photo or two to inspire you, but please remember I am not an expert, just a fellow traveller who has picked up some experience, and there are many more of us out there somewhere I expect. As someone else suggested, take some time to see how other scales have done it and gauge what will work and what will not. Essentially (apart form clearances) you are putting 00 in the garden from the track point of view, so what the 4mm boys have done is probably worth researching. I seem to recall a couple of articles in the RM a few years ago.

            In terms of plans for Locos, there are a number of these produced by the 7mmnga through their magazines and other publications. They also too give information on manufacturers of parts, kits etc, not all of which need to be expensive. I guess by your questions you are not a member yet, our website gives details.

            Regards


            Howard Ballard
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: john picton
            To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 11:19 AM
            Subject: [7mmnga] OO gauge outdoor


            Dear Sirs, I have for many years been a keen modeller of Aeroplanes and Model Boats. I am also a very keen Gardener, due to ill health I am no longer able to dig the garden and plant vegetable which was my passion.We have a quite large garden about 45m X 8m, so there is plenty of room for a garden layout.It has be suggested to me that I should have a 32mm gauge system, but having looked at this it is beyond my finances ( we only have disability benefits to live on), however OO gauge would be a viable proposition as many friend have already offered track and other items and of course this system is quite cheap to buy.
            I would like to built in OO but scale up to 7mm Narrow gauge as these little Logos I find really intriguing.
            My basic need is for information regarding this type of system in the garden, i.e. do's and don'ts, best method of laying track etc, and also if any one has plans for Narrow gauge Logos that I could scale in order to build my own Logos.
            my best regards to you all John m Picton


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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          • howardmartin
            John Most 0-16.5 locos are built on standard 00 chassis s that may or may not have been modified. Howard Martin ... From: john picton
            Message 5 of 7 , Jul 15, 2003
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              John

              Most 0-16.5 locos are built on standard 00 chassis's that may or may not
              have been modified.

              Howard Martin
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "john picton" <johnmpicton@...>
              To: <7mmnga@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 11:02 PM
              Subject: Re: [7mmnga] OO gauge outdoor


              > Hi Howard, Thank you for your most interesting e mail.Yours is the kind of
              advice that I am looking for and I will be contacting you again in the
              future, I would like to see some photos of your layout in order to prove to
              her indoors that I will not be wrecking the garden. I have obtained several
              books from the local library on the subject and have purchased ' getting
              started' by Peco and there catalogue so I am absorbing info at quite a
              rate.Planning the system is at a very early stage, I have spent several days
              pacing up and down the garden trying to get a feel for the lay of the land
              as it were, and trying to decide the starting point. As the garden is rather
              long I intend to have two systems eventually, running up each side of the
              garden, I shall hopefully start the first line later this year and hope to
              have it running by next spring. The system will be rather unorthodox both in
              its construction and in the power for the system, the later is still
              experimental and so I will explain more when this has got past the prototype
              stage. I did think of joining the 7mm Narrow gauge Association and indeed
              contacted them, the reply I received put me off a bit as they did not
              recommend using oo gauge out doors and so I have not as yet pursued this. I
              am very keen to build my own Locos and as the power for these will be an
              unusual form I think, my first question to you is:- Can I build a 7mm Narrow
              Gauge Loco on a standard OO chassis ?
              > Best Regards John Picton
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: howard.ballard
              > To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 10:17 AM
              > Subject: Re: [7mmnga] OO gauge outdoor
              >
              >
              > Hi John,
              >
              > My 7mmng layout is outdoors, on what used to be the rockery in our
              garden. That in itself is a good starting point as it is approx 2 ft above
              the level of the lawn, and hence stops you from having to bend down all the
              time, and can be enjoyed from the relative comfort of a chair.
              >
              > Being outdoors has one great disadvantage... it's a seasonal occupation.
              Larger gauges may getaway with running in autumn & winter, but for anything
              on 00 track leaves on the line is a major obstacle, not to mention twigs or
              the like.
              >
              > A couple of pointers I would make though, Plan well and carefully before
              you cut the first sod. My layout runs partially in a cutting and partially
              on an embankment. The cutting is lined with a stone wall made of small
              stones ( from Stonecraft ltd) and until I did that landslides were too
              regular to allow reliable running. The cutting also has the disadvantage of
              being the place where the leaves collect and needs constant clearing even in
              summer. The embankment, in contrast and rather obviously, does not suffer
              these problems, but the track still needs cleaning before most running
              sessions, so I would suggest in planning the layout you think about
              accessibility. I have also heard of a 00 layout in the garden where the
              cutting was covered in winter by placing a length of guttering over it. I
              can't as mine's curved, but you might again like to think about that in the
              planning stage.
              >
              > Most of the civil engineering is set in concrete, with the track fixed
              to wooden piles or transverse "sleepers" liberally soaked in preservative.
              Experience suggests that ( particularly at rail length joints) the track
              would be better laid on a wooden longitudinal sleeper bedded into the
              concrete. Bridges (in my case viaduct) work well with a wooden trackbed
              which obviously makes them easier to make.
              >
              > I can't claim to be an expert but this is the 4th or 5th summer the
              layout has run and although there are often minor problems (uncoupling on a
              break of grade, engine sticking on dirty track) Peco track is pretty durable
              and the points motors are surface mounted under small buildings. Where I
              have not yet got round to constructing these buildings (there's always
              something else to do) the reliability of these exposed points motors does
              not seem to be too compromised, although they get a dose of WD40 a couple of
              times a year.)
              >
              > Rather than going into depth here about how I built my layout, what went
              well and what I would change, email me individually and I will try to answer
              any questions, I'll even include a photo or two to inspire you, but please
              remember I am not an expert, just a fellow traveller who has picked up some
              experience, and there are many more of us out there somewhere I expect. As
              someone else suggested, take some time to see how other scales have done it
              and gauge what will work and what will not. Essentially (apart form
              clearances) you are putting 00 in the garden from the track point of view,
              so what the 4mm boys have done is probably worth researching. I seem to
              recall a couple of articles in the RM a few years ago.
              >
              > In terms of plans for Locos, there are a number of these produced by the
              7mmnga through their magazines and other publications. They also too give
              information on manufacturers of parts, kits etc, not all of which need to be
              expensive. I guess by your questions you are not a member yet, our website
              gives details.
              >
              > Regards
              >
              >
              > Howard Ballard
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: john picton
              > To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 11:19 AM
              > Subject: [7mmnga] OO gauge outdoor
              >
              >
              > Dear Sirs, I have for many years been a keen modeller of Aeroplanes
              and Model Boats. I am also a very keen Gardener, due to ill health I am no
              longer able to dig the garden and plant vegetable which was my passion.We
              have a quite large garden about 45m X 8m, so there is plenty of room for a
              garden layout.It has be suggested to me that I should have a 32mm gauge
              system, but having looked at this it is beyond my finances ( we only have
              disability benefits to live on), however OO gauge would be a viable
              proposition as many friend have already offered track and other items and of
              course this system is quite cheap to buy.
              > I would like to built in OO but scale up to 7mm Narrow gauge as these
              little Logos I find really intriguing.
              > My basic need is for information regarding this type of system in the
              garden, i.e. do's and don'ts, best method of laying track etc, and also if
              any one has plans for Narrow gauge Logos that I could scale in order to
              build my own Logos.
              > my best regards to you all John m Picton
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
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            • Jim Favre
              Running any railroad outdoors has its problems. I worked for a 1:1 scale standard gauge tourist line for 8 years. The route was a beautiful 40 mile trip
              Message 6 of 7 , Jul 15, 2003
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                Running any railroad outdoors has its problems. I worked for a 1:1 scale standard gauge tourist line for 8 years. The route was a beautiful 40 mile trip through very beautiful rural area with splendid open areas, thick forests, and wet lands. The flora and fauna were both wonderful. However, even though this was an active line with freight traffic during the week and tourist runs on the weekends, the cab of the loco always carried a chainsaw, a brush hog, and an axe or two to clear a tree or large limb that had dropped during a storm the night before.

                Debris on the tracks is always a problem regardless of the scale. Up until 12 years ago I had a very nice traditional G scale garden railroad of respectable size and keeping the right of way clear was an ongoing chore. Now as my years advance I find the ground is getting further away so I developed a number of "Non-Stooping" devices to clean the track and one that was very successful was built from an old hair dryer. The 120v A.C. motor in a hair dryer runs just fine on 12 to 18v D.C. once you remove the heating element, and the few electronic components like the thermistor that are attached to it. This was M.O.W. equipment so appearance was not an issue. I simply cut away the handle leaving the blower housing and the nozzle and mounted it on a flat car with some wood blocking so the air flow was directed straight off the end of the flat car and downward toward the rails at about a 20 degree angle. I then replaced the bogies with ones that had power pick ups and ran the wires to the motor of the former hair dryer. On the rear of the flatcar deck I screwed down a cap from an aerosol can of WD-40, open end up. This allowed me to push it from a standing position with a length of broom stick.

                It worked like a charm, place a brick behind the flat car, turn the track power on full, and simply walk along pushing it ahead with the broom stick. It could not have been simpler.

                Incidentally, remove the brick so it can go backwards and you also gain a rather novel, and hideously fast I might add, jet propelled railcar.

                As stated I did this in G scale but I see no reason why a smaller "fold up" travel hair dryer would not work equally well for smaller gauges. Granted it's an odd piece of rolling stock but, scale compliance and prototypical appearance were not an issue, its function was the important matter.

                However, if one could find an appropriately sized blower you might be able to disguise it as a jet engine which are indeed prototypically used for clearing track of snow.

                Here's to clean track and happy derailment free operations !
                Jim Favre jimfavre@...
                Dalton, Massachusetts

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