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Re: Update: West Camberwick Green

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  • johnbjthompson
    To add to the previous comments, ironstone quarrying would be a possibility, but the areas you mention are iron smelting regions not quarrying areas (iron
    Message 1 of 9 , Mar 1, 2013
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      To add to the previous comments, ironstone quarrying would be a possibility, but the areas you mention are iron smelting regions not quarrying areas (iron smelting uses a lot more coal than iron ore so generally the iron is moved to the coal and not vice-versa).

      Also as mentioned coal mining was a major industry and small narrow gauge lines feeding coal mines might have started the whole railway industry but had been gone for about a century but the time period you're looking at, replaced by major standard gauge infrastructure.

      While in reality most small narrow gauge systems had long succumbed to road transport by the late '60's let alone the '80's, there were a few survivors, and it's your railway so you can create a history that suits you, perhaps a rich benefactor into rail who chooses to fund it (Lord MacAlpine type character?), or maybe a working museum (Beamish type of set up) where demonstration goods trains are still run.

      As for location, if you want ironstone two location spring to mind. The first is Northamptonshire/Leicestershire where there is a band of ironstone that actually had steam hauled standard gauge until quite late (the links already posted lead to one of those railways), and that is a busy rural part of the world with a lot of industry and agriculture that could easily have found that sharing an existing ironstone line rather than investing in new trucks could have been the cheaper option as late as your chosen period.

      The other is the Ironbridge area, the cradle of the industrial revolution, there is iron and coal there, although I'm pretty sure both had ceased to be actively mined/quarried by that time it has lots of industrial heritage attractions, a demonstration narrow gauge line would fit well with that area, and you could even combine urban and rural as you get heavy industrial works just yards from beautiful scenery around that area.

      Good luck with your plans, and have fun with the research!

      John

      --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "onizuka_shiraga" <onizuka47@...> wrote:
      >
      > Also, I have decided to change the locale of the railway from an urban setting to a rural one. My whole rationale for building an urban setting was so that I could have a number of industries for shunting, but a small village dependent on the railway to deliver goods/post/passenger services would also provide good shunting possibilities. (Also, a rural setting means grass and trees, thus putting some GREEN in West Camberwick Green!)
      >
      > The biggest decision I have to make in regards to the layout at this point is to determine the main industry that this railway serves, which I've narrowed down to two possibilities. Coal and iron ore. At this point, the mine won't be modeled, but I will build some wagons to represent said industry and represent the economic engine that drives the need for an industrial steam-powered railway in 1968-1980.
      >
      > Now, my home state of Minnesota is famous for its iron ore mining and at one time, provided 70% of the iron ore and Taconite used in US steel production. (Wisconsin and the Upper Peninsula of Michigan being the other two larger iron ore producing states.) I have to go back and re-read my sources, but weren't there iron ore mines around Doncaster and Sheffield? (Correct me if I'm wrong on this!)
      >
      > I DO know, however, that coal mining WAS a major industry in the UK. One of the types of model railroads I've toyed with building, is a small, industrial shortline railroad set in West Virginia or Pennsylvania, during the "transition era" of the 1950s (Steam and "first generation" diesel locomotives). And a coal mine would provide ample fuel for steam engines (which is why the Norfolk & Western Railroad was the last big US railroad to "drop fires" on steam in 1960-61). So, I think I may just go that route.
      >
      > So, if you guys can suggest any good resources on coal railways of England and Wales, please let me know.
      >
      > Also, as usual, I'm open to suggestions and comments about the layout.
      >
      > But, that's where I am with this at the moment. I hope all of your modeling projects are progressing much more smoothly for you than this is for me!
      >
      >
      > More updates to come.
      >
    • Frank Sharp
      Just to add to the point about moving ore to fuel. A few miles out of Oban heading to Glasgow you see a sign for Bonawe Furnace. You might assume iron ore out
      Message 2 of 9 , Mar 1, 2013
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        Just to add to the point about moving ore to fuel. A few miles out of Oban
        heading to Glasgow you see a sign for Bonawe Furnace. You might assume iron
        ore out crop. Not true, what the area had was trees. The trees were reduced
        to charcoal but the ore was shipped from Furness, Lake District, smelted and
        the raw iron shipped back. We are talking C17th, so sailing ships.



        Frank



        _____

        From: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com [mailto:7mmnga@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
        johnbjthompson





        To add to the previous comments, ironstone quarrying would be a possibility,
        but the areas you mention are iron smelting regions not quarrying areas
        (iron smelting uses a lot more coal than iron ore so generally the iron is
        moved to the coal and not vice-versa).






        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • David Woodcock
        There was one significant coal-hauling 2ft gauge line in England but it linked standard gauge sidings to a gas works (i.e. the end user) rather than a coal
        Message 3 of 9 , Mar 1, 2013
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          There was one significant coal-hauling 2ft gauge line in England but it linked standard gauge sidings to a gas works (i.e. the end user) rather than a coal mine. It was situated in a largely urban setting at Harrogate in Yorkshire and included a long tunnel which severely restricted the loading gauge, so locos and rolling stock were rather odd shapes. As well as coal to the gas works, some of the liquid gas by-products were taken away from the gas works back to the standard gauge sidings. Despite the restrictions imposed by the tunnel, locos and rolling stock were large by UK 2ft gauge norms.

          I have seen one model, unfinished, in OO9, but there is no reason why the concept shouldn't be used as the basis for a layout in 7mm scale. Large gas works used vast quantities of coal and were sometimes located in awkward places (having initially been started up alongside a canal for example) so a narrow gauge link could be justified.

          As well as Harrogate, there were other gas works which actually had narrow gauge links but these tended to be small horse- or man-worked lines, Berkhampsted for example.

          David Woodcock
        • Brian Rumary
          There was a huge 2ft gauge system at Ashington Colliery in Northumberland, but that was mainly for internal use, although it did also serve Ashington village,
          Message 4 of 9 , Mar 2, 2013
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            There was a huge 2ft gauge system at Ashington Colliery in
            Northumberland, but that was mainly for internal use, although it did
            also serve Ashington village, and was used to take free coal to the
            houses of the miners who lived there.

            I think there may have been quite a few narrow gauge colliery lines with
            steam locos, but most disappeared or were converted to standard gauge
            long before the rail enthusiast era, so most were little photographed or
            reported.

            --
            Brian Rumary
            England
          • Frank Sharp
            Brian, There s always been a rail enthusiast era , it just that for a long time it masqueraded as the Church of England! Frank _____ From:
            Message 5 of 9 , Mar 2, 2013
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              Brian,



              There's always been a 'rail enthusiast era', it just that for a long time it
              masqueraded as the Church of England!



              Frank



              _____

              From: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com [mailto:7mmnga@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
              Brian Rumary

              Snipped <long before the rail enthusiast era, so most were little
              photographed or
              reported.>






              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • oztrainz
              G day Onizuka, For some links to UK coal mining resources try the following For UK, try the Photo gallery at the Coal Mining Resource Centre
              Message 6 of 9 , Mar 5, 2013
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                G'day Onizuka,
                For some links to UK coal mining resources try the following

                For UK, try the Photo gallery at the Coal Mining Resource Centre
                <http://www.cmhrc.co.uk/site/scrapbook/cscollieries/index.html>

                For photos of Welsh coal mines try

                <http://www.welshcoalmines.co.uk/Photo.htm> click the name of the mine, look for some of the smaller mines like Abercrave in Brecon

                If you decide to go to the US side
                Search the "Shorpy" site for "coal mining"
                <http://www.shorpy.com/search/node/coal+mining>

                and 2 pages if of Pennsylvanian coal mining liks for you to explore at
                <http://pittsburgh.about.com/cs/coal/>

                and the Historic American Buildsings Survey/Historic American Engineering Record at the US Library of Congress
                <http://www.loc.gov/pictures/collection/hh/>

                That should give you plenty to look at
                Regards,
                John Garaty
                modelling a local Aussie colliery incline





                --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "onizuka_shiraga" <onizuka47@...> wrote:
                >
                > Greetings, Lads and Ladies!!!
                >
                > Been a bit busy with this thing called "Life," mostly that nonsense that is the affliction of "work," but at least it provides the means for "play" so I shant complain too much!!!
                >
                > Thought I'd catch you up on the latest on the WCG, which is... not much, really. Although, I purchased some foam core slabs from an art supply shop the other day. I've also nicked... er, "salvaged" some thin cardboard boxes from the recycling bin at work.
                >
                > The foam core will be used to mock-up the train boards, scenery, gradient changes, etc. on the layout, while the cardboard will be used to mock-up the structures and rolling stock, which shall give me a rough approximation of how things will be laid out and minimize the number of problems that will crop up during construction. Or, so I hope!
                >
                >
                > Also, I have decided to change the locale of the railway from an urban setting to a rural one. My whole rationale for building an urban setting was so that I could have a number of industries for shunting, but a small village dependent on the railway to deliver goods/post/passenger services would also provide good shunting possibilities. (Also, a rural setting means grass and trees, thus putting some GREEN in West Camberwick Green!)
                >
                > The biggest decision I have to make in regards to the layout at this point is to determine the main industry that this railway serves, which I've narrowed down to two possibilities. Coal and iron ore. At this point, the mine won't be modeled, but I will build some wagons to represent said industry and represent the economic engine that drives the need for an industrial steam-powered railway in 1968-1980.
                >
                > Now, my home state of Minnesota is famous for its iron ore mining and at one time, provided 70% of the iron ore and Taconite used in US steel production. (Wisconsin and the Upper Peninsula of Michigan being the other two larger iron ore producing states.) I have to go back and re-read my sources, but weren't there iron ore mines around Doncaster and Sheffield? (Correct me if I'm wrong on this!)
                >
                > I DO know, however, that coal mining WAS a major industry in the UK. One of the types of model railroads I've toyed with building, is a small, industrial shortline railroad set in West Virginia or Pennsylvania, during the "transition era" of the 1950s (Steam and "first generation" diesel locomotives). And a coal mine would provide ample fuel for steam engines (which is why the Norfolk & Western Railroad was the last big US railroad to "drop fires" on steam in 1960-61). So, I think I may just go that route.
                >
                > So, if you guys can suggest any good resources on coal railways of England and Wales, please let me know.
                >
                > Also, as usual, I'm open to suggestions and comments about the layout.
                >
                > But, that's where I am with this at the moment. I hope all of your modeling projects are progressing much more smoothly for you than this is for me!
                >
                >
                > More updates to come.
                >
              • Ryk Parkinson
                Frank A belated reply but fear not there are still plenty of us CofE rail enthusiasts about paying reverence to such as Teddy Boston and Wilbert Awdry, both of
                Message 7 of 9 , Mar 24, 2013
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                  Frank

                  A belated reply but fear not there are still plenty of us CofE rail enthusiasts about paying reverence to such as Teddy Boston and Wilbert Awdry, both of whom served in my local area.

                  Ryk

                  From: Frank Sharp
                  Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2013 11:50 AM
                  To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [7mm NGA] Re: Update: West Camberwick Green


                  Brian,

                  There's always been a 'rail enthusiast era', it just that for a long time it
                  masqueraded as the Church of England!

                  Frank

                  _____

                  From: mailto:7mmnga%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:7mmnga%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                  Brian Rumary

                  Snipped



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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