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Re: Leek & Manifold Livery

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  • Paul Holmes
    Hi all I am starting up a 7 year old thread again!! This time wanting help with goods stock livery. My 17.5mm gauge Leek and Manifold models are progressing
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 12, 2013
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      Hi all

      I am starting up a 7 year old thread again!!

      This time wanting help with goods stock livery. My 17.5mm gauge Leek and Manifold models are progressing nicely, thanks to Dorset Kits, I have now built all the goods stock the railway had in 1906 - two transporter wagons, 2 open bogie low sided wagons and the bogie van.

      Robert Gratton's book states deep purplish red as the wagon livery in the early days - now is this the same as North Staffs Madder Lake or a deeper tone? If deeper, then I fancy the idea of Caledonian Purple, which adorns a model of Taliesin I have recently built and is a good match for the current FfR deep maroon of Tal, Merddin and Palmerston.

      Any thoughts please.

      Paul
    • Frank Sharp
      Paul, If this livery is right, look at Ford Burgundy Red. Frank [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 12, 2013
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        Paul,



        If this livery is right, look at Ford Burgundy Red.



        Frank





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Nigel Auckland
        Julia I haven t seen it but I will have a check and see if there is one at Collingwood as I am off there in a minute. 88 Nigel ... [Non-text portions of this
        Message 3 of 13 , Feb 12, 2013
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          Julia

          I haven't seen it but I will have a check and see if there is one at Collingwood as I am off there in a minute.

          88

          Nigel


          On 12 Feb 2013, at 11:30, Frank Sharp wrote:

          > Paul,
          >
          > If this livery is right, look at Ford Burgundy Red.
          >
          > Frank
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Paul Holmes
          Hi Nigel Is this message for the group?? Looks like Julia was the intended recipient!!!? Paul
          Message 4 of 13 , Feb 12, 2013
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            Hi Nigel

            Is this message for the group?? Looks like Julia was the intended recipient!!!?

            Paul

            --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, Nigel Auckland wrote:
            >
            > Julia
            >
            > I haven't seen it but I will have a check and see if there is one at Collingwood as I am off there in a minute.
            >
            > 88
            >
            > Nigel
            >>
          • Nigel Auckland
            No I had a serious senior persons moment by the look of it!!!!! Please remove it. Nigel ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            Message 5 of 13 , Feb 12, 2013
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              No I had a serious senior persons moment by the look of it!!!!!

              Please remove it.

              Nigel


              On 12 Feb 2013, at 12:42, Paul Holmes wrote:

              > Hi Nigel
              >
              > Is this message for the group?? Looks like Julia was the intended recipient!!!?
              >
              > Paul
              >
              > --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, Nigel Auckland wrote:
              > >
              > > Julia
              > >
              > > I haven't seen it but I will have a check and see if there is one at Collingwood as I am off there in a minute.
              > >
              > > 88
              > >
              > > Nigel
              > >>
              >
              >



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Andrew Young
              ... Paul, They are different, Madder Lake was used for locomotives and passenger stock, the purplish red was a different shade, but there s little evidence to
              Message 6 of 13 , Feb 12, 2013
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                On Feb 12, 2013, at 10:37 AM, "Paul Holmes" <heatonwood@...> wrote:

                > Robert Gratton's book states deep purplish red as the wagon livery in the early days - now is this the same as North Staffs Madder Lake or a deeper tone? If deeper, then I fancy the idea of Caledonian Purple, which adorns a model of Taliesin I have recently built and is a good match for the current FfR deep maroon of Tal, Merddin and Palmerston.
                >
                Paul,

                They are different, Madder Lake was used for locomotives and passenger stock, the purplish red was a different shade, but there's little evidence to say what it actually was, I wonder whether your Caledonian Purple would be quite close. A friend of mine is a member of the North Staffs modelling group and from what I've seen of their newsletters, they have trouble agreeing what shade it should be! However, I will pass on your question and see what answer results.

                Going off on a tangent slightly, the colour currently worn by 'Sir Haydn' in Corris guise is Madder Lake, well it said so on the tin!

                Cheers,
                Andrew
                (In North Staffs Country)




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • David Woodcock
                Paul Gratton s book specifically says NSR red and if you look at the back of the dust cover you will see a reproduction of a transporter wagon painted in it,
                Message 7 of 13 , Feb 13, 2013
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                  Paul

                  Gratton's book specifically says "NSR red" and if you look at the back of the dust cover you will see a reproduction of a transporter wagon painted in it, I imagine that Bob and Roy will have gone to some trouble to ensure that it was depicted as correctly as possible.

                  It may well be worth contacting the NSR Study Group (google) for advice on the best proprietary paint to use, their secretary John Sherratt seemingly recently contributed an article to the Group's journal about some aspects of NSR livery, and their webmaster David Moore is an active modeller (and member of the MMRS) and is probably in a position to give pertinent advice.

                  That said, remember that wagon painting had two main purposes, to protect the wood- and iron-work from the worst of the weather and to identify the owner and owner's number; they certainly weren't painted to look pretty and costs were minimised to the extent that interior woodwork wasn't painted at all. All wagon paint of that era was based on one of the available lead-based paints, in this case red lead oxide, sometimes (and probably in this case) with a small amount of "colour" pigment added to aid quick recognition. Even when wagons were freshly painted there were probably shade variations between each painting batch and, even on a very restricted railway like the L&MLR, weathering effects would have quickly varied between wagons.

                  David
                • Paul Holmes
                  Hi all Thanks all the for advice. I suppose with no knowledge of Knotty matters at all I initially did not know if the NSR purplish red was the same as NSR
                  Message 8 of 13 , Feb 13, 2013
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                    Hi all
                    Thanks all the for advice. I suppose with no knowledge of Knotty matters at all I initially did not know if the NSR purplish red was the same as NSR madder lake - it sounds as if it is not. The precision Caledonian purple madder is definitely a much deeper shade than MR or LMS red. The RCL book cover depicts the transporter as two tone - with a browner shade at the top with a maroon below, so I will take up the suggestions made so far
                    Paul


                    --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, David Woodcock wrote:
                    >
                    > Paul
                    >
                    > Gratton's book specifically says "NSR red" and if you look at the back of the dust cover you will see a reproduction of a transporter wagon painted in it, I imagine that Bob and Roy will have gone to some trouble to ensure that it was depicted as correctly as possible.
                    >
                    > It may well be worth contacting the NSR Study Group (google) for advice on the best proprietary paint to use, their secretary John Sherratt seemingly recently contributed an article to the Group's journal about some aspects of NSR livery, and their webmaster David Moore is an active modeller (and member of the MMRS) and is probably in a position to give pertinent advice.
                    >
                    > That said, remember that wagon painting had two main purposes, to protect the wood- and iron-work from the worst of the weather and to identify the owner and owner's number; they certainly weren't painted to look pretty and costs were minimised to the extent that interior woodwork wasn't painted at all. All wagon paint of that era was based on one of the available lead-based paints, in this case red lead oxide, sometimes (and probably in this case) with a small amount of "colour" pigment added to aid quick recognition. Even when wagons were freshly painted there were probably shade variations between each painting batch and, even on a very restricted railway like the L&MLR, weathering effects would have quickly varied between wagons.
                    >
                    > David
                    >
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