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WLLR Book Review

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  • John C
    I was interested to see the review of the recent WLLR book in Narrow Lines. I fully concur with Adrian s comments over the content which is excellent, although
    Message 1 of 25 , Apr 1, 2011
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      I was interested to see the review of the recent WLLR book in Narrow Lines. I fully concur with Adrian's comments over the content which is excellent, although I would have liked a location map showing all the various schemes in the context of the towns and villages they would have served. However, I do take issue with the comments of ".. to the standards one expects in a Wild Swan publication" and "...well served by his publisher".

      The last WS books on the VoR, Talyllyn & ALR were all produced nearly a quarter of a century ago and certainly did set a new standard - at the time. The rest of the publishing world has moved on and is now fully end to end digital with colour as a matter of course, but I am led to believe that WS doggedly stick to the same manual paste up methods of yore.

      Several of the plans reproduced in this book were clearly originally in colour (and probably scanned as such) and have lost much by being reproduced in low contrast black and white. Many of the photos seem to lack contrast and clarity. Perhaps some of these may have originally been in colour too. I suspect much of this is a result of multiple scan/print/paste/scan/print steps. I even feel the photos are on the whole worse than in the older books, when true photographic prints would have been used in plate preparation.

      This is a good book, however I feel the material deserved so much better. You only have to look at the Leek and Manifold book produced by RCL publications to see what could have been made of it. I just hope any further definitive books on our favourite railways (L&B perhaps?) get such proper treatment.

      John
      (with hard hat on)
    • ianj0trains
      Hi all, As a long time fan of the WLLR I had been looking forward to purchasing this book, but after reading Adrian s review, and now John s post on this
      Message 2 of 25 , Apr 1, 2011
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        Hi all,

        As a long time fan of the WLLR I had been looking forward to purchasing this book, but after reading Adrian's review, and now John's post on this forum, I'm now reluctant to purchase a copy until after I've had a chance to inspect it, something that may not occur very readily since I'm in Australia and it is unlikely to be seen here in too many shops.

        My curiosity is raised by John's comparison with Roy Link's publication of the Leek and Manifold Book, did Wild Swan sponsor the writers to produce this book, and thus they had no choice in who published it, or would those who wrote it have been in a position to say we'll only give you the manuscript if you agree to publish it to RCL standard ?

        I'm sure someone will probably indicate that there is so little money and so much risk in publishing something like this we're lucky to get it at all, and I have no doubt they're almost certainly correct.

        Cheers

        Ian J


        --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "John C" <jclutterbuck2001@...> wrote:
        >
        > I was interested to see the review of the recent WLLR book in Narrow Lines. I fully concur with Adrian's comments over the content which is excellent, although I would have liked a location map showing all the various schemes in the context of the towns and villages they would have served. However, I do take issue with the comments of ".. to the standards one expects in a Wild Swan publication" and "...well served by his publisher".
        >
        > The last WS books on the VoR, Talyllyn & ALR were all produced nearly a quarter of a century ago and certainly did set a new standard - at the time. The rest of the publishing world has moved on and is now fully end to end digital with colour as a matter of course, but I am led to believe that WS doggedly stick to the same manual paste up methods of yore.
        >
        > Several of the plans reproduced in this book were clearly originally in colour (and probably scanned as such) and have lost much by being reproduced in low contrast black and white. Many of the photos seem to lack contrast and clarity. Perhaps some of these may have originally been in colour too. I suspect much of this is a result of multiple scan/print/paste/scan/print steps. I even feel the photos are on the whole worse than in the older books, when true photographic prints would have been used in plate preparation.
        >
        > This is a good book, however I feel the material deserved so much better. You only have to look at the Leek and Manifold book produced by RCL publications to see what could have been made of it. I just hope any further definitive books on our favourite railways (L&B perhaps?) get such proper treatment.
        >
        > John
        > (with hard hat on)
        >
      • adriangrayfr
        I will respond to John s reparks by saying that, as far as I am aware, NONE of the photographs were originally colour and ALL of the images for the book will
        Message 3 of 25 , Apr 1, 2011
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          I will respond to John's reparks by saying that, as far as I am aware, NONE of the photographs were originally colour and ALL of the images for the book will have been taken from real photographic prints. As John says, Paul Karau just doesn't work with digital images for books.**
          Paul's response to a review in NGIRM commenting upon the monochrome maps/plans ws that with only two or three items in the whole book requiring colour the extra cost involved would have been quite out of proportion to the benfit obtained.
          In the final analysis,
          1. the author was perfectly content with the format chosen
          asnd
          2. the books have been flying off the shelves.

          ** MRJ is slightly different as so much is submitted digitally these days. However Paul Karau only ever prints copies of digital images for his own use in selecting for publication. The printers work from the digital image but rarely, if ever, have detailed instrustions about manipulation which is why sometimes images in MRJ suffer from curious colour balance!

          Adrian

          --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "John C" <jclutterbuck2001@...> wrote:
          >
          > I was interested to see the review of the recent WLLR book in Narrow Lines. I fully concur with Adrian's comments over the content which is excellent, although I would have liked a location map showing all the various schemes in the context of the towns and villages they would have served. However, I do take issue with the comments of ".. to the standards one expects in a Wild Swan publication" and "...well served by his publisher".
          >
          > The last WS books on the VoR, Talyllyn & ALR were all produced nearly a quarter of a century ago and certainly did set a new standard - at the time. The rest of the publishing world has moved on and is now fully end to end digital with colour as a matter of course, but I am led to believe that WS doggedly stick to the same manual paste up methods of yore.
          >
          > Several of the plans reproduced in this book were clearly originally in colour (and probably scanned as such) and have lost much by being reproduced in low contrast black and white. Many of the photos seem to lack contrast and clarity. Perhaps some of these may have originally been in colour too. I suspect much of this is a result of multiple scan/print/paste/scan/print steps. I even feel the photos are on the whole worse than in the older books, when true photographic prints would have been used in plate preparation.
          >
          > This is a good book, however I feel the material deserved so much better. You only have to look at the Leek and Manifold book produced by RCL publications to see what could have been made of it. I just hope any further definitive books on our favourite railways (L&B perhaps?) get such proper treatment.
          >
          > John
          > (with hard hat on)
          >
        • adriangrayfr
          ... The last point is certianly true, margins are tight! The author prepared a draft and offered it to Wild Swan. It was accepted and the form and
          Message 4 of 25 , Apr 1, 2011
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            --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "ianj0trains" <ianaj@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi all,
            >
            > As a long time fan of the WLLR I had been looking forward to purchasing this book, but after reading Adrian's review, and now John's post on this forum, I'm now reluctant to purchase a copy until after I've had a chance to inspect it, something that may not occur very readily since I'm in Australia and it is unlikely to be seen here in too many shops.
            >
            > My curiosity is raised by John's comparison with Roy Link's publication of the Leek and Manifold Book, did Wild Swan sponsor the writers to produce this book, and thus they had no choice in who published it, or would those who wrote it have been in a position to say we'll only give you the manuscript if you agree to publish it to RCL standard ?
            >
            > I'm sure someone will probably indicate that there is so little money and so much risk in publishing something like this we're lucky to get it at all, and I have no doubt they're almost certainly correct.
            >
            > Cheers
            >
            > Ian J
            >
            The last point is certianly true, margins are tight!

            The author prepared a draft and offered it to Wild Swan. It was accepted and the form and presentation of the finished book discussed and agreed.

            Adrian
          • ianj0trains
            Hi all, Thank you for your replies Adrian, they totally explain the situation. I ve also received an off-forum offer of a look at someone elses copy located
            Message 5 of 25 , Apr 1, 2011
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              Hi all,

              Thank you for your replies Adrian, they totally explain the situation.

              I've also received an off-forum offer of a look at someone elses copy located here in Melbourne, I cannot ask for more.

              Thanks all, cheers

              Ian J

              --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "adriangrayfr" <adrian@...> wrote:
              >
              > >
              > The last point is certianly true, margins are tight!
              >
              > The author prepared a draft and offered it to Wild Swan. It was accepted and the form and presentation of the finished book discussed and agreed.
              >
              > Adrian
              >
            • John C
              Hi Adrian, Thanks for putting me straight. Perhaps it s just down to Roy s skills at getting the best out of plans and photos (digitally) and thus
              Message 6 of 25 , Apr 2, 2011
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                Hi Adrian,

                Thanks for putting me straight. Perhaps it's just down to Roy's skills at getting the best out of plans and photos (digitally) and thus significantly raising the bar and my expectations.

                John


                --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "adriangrayfr" <adrian@...> wrote:
                >
                > I will respond to John's reparks by saying that, as far as I am aware, NONE of the photographs were originally colour and ALL of the images for the book will have been taken from real photographic prints. As John says, Paul Karau just doesn't work with digital images for books.**
                > Paul's response to a review in NGIRM commenting upon the monochrome maps/plans ws that with only two or three items in the whole book requiring colour the extra cost involved would have been quite out of proportion to the benfit obtained.
                > In the final analysis,
                > 1. the author was perfectly content with the format chosen
                > asnd
                > 2. the books have been flying off the shelves.
                >
                > ** MRJ is slightly different as so much is submitted digitally these days. However Paul Karau only ever prints copies of digital images for his own use in selecting for publication. The printers work from the digital image but rarely, if ever, have detailed instrustions about manipulation which is why sometimes images in MRJ suffer from curious colour balance!
                >
                > Adrian
              • andrewyoung@mypostoffice.co.uk
                Gents,My Link produced L&M book is out on the table at the moment after spending Tuesday, walking along part of the Manifold Way with my brother s family,
                Message 7 of 25 , Apr 2, 2011
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                  Gents,

                  My Link produced L&M book is out on the table at the moment after spending
                  Tuesday, walking along part of the Manifold Way with my brother's family,
                  I've just picked it up. Whilst it is an exquisite publication and
                  certainly sets the standard for the future. It could equally be argued
                  that the majority of colour in the book is a 'nice to have' rather than a
                  'must have'. Yes there are coloured maps and inked in drawings which are
                  nice, yet the most use of colour for the main part has been to give the
                  photos a sepia tinge rather than pure b&w!

                  Equally, I like the Wild Swan layout, and as Adrian says, not much of the
                  book could've been published in colour anyway, unless someone drew some
                  coloured drawings. I did wonder when I read the review of the W&L book in
                  the Review, whether there was an element of sour grapes in that the book
                  had been published by Wild Swan rather than by RCL....

                  In conclusion, we should be thankful that there are three high quality
                  publishers of books on the narrow gauge for us to spend our money on:

                  Firstly there's Wild Swan, the format is slightly dated now, but that
                  doesn't stop my enjoyment from reading them and I have quite a few!

                  Secondly, RCL, The quality of the Spooner Album, Slate Quarry and other
                  albums are second to none and I would have to rate their L&M book as the
                  best in the field making the best of modern technology.

                  Thirdly is Rail Romances, currently making my way through Iron Sherpa Vol
                  2, runs the L&M book very closely for being the best imho!!

                  For me, these would be complete with a good quality history of the Corris.

                  Cheers,
                  Andrew




                  ______________________________________________
                  This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
                  http://www.netintelligence.com/email
                • Peter Hingley
                  The L&M book is also quite staggeringly expensive, perhaps in part due to the un necessary use of colour printing, which is why (much
                  Message 8 of 25 , Apr 2, 2011
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                    The L&M book is also quite staggeringly expensive, perhaps
                    in part due to the un necessary use of colour printing, which
                    is why (much though I love the legend of the L&M and that beautiful
                    part of Staffordshire) I have not yet bought a copy !




                    PDH



                    From: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com [mailto:7mmnga@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                    Of andrewyoung@...
                    Sent: 02 April 2011 12:52
                    To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [7mm NGA] Re: WLLR Book Review





                    Gents,

                    My Link produced L&M book is out on the table at the moment after
                    spending
                    Tuesday, walking along part of the Manifold Way with my brother's
                    family,
                    I've just picked it up. Whilst it is an exquisite publication and
                    certainly sets the standard for the future. It could equally be argued
                    that the majority of colour in the book is a 'nice to have' rather than
                    a
                    'must have'. Yes there are coloured maps and inked in drawings which are
                    nice, yet the most use of colour for the main part has been to give the
                    photos a sepia tinge rather than pure b&w!

                    Equally, I like the Wild Swan layout, and as Adrian says, not much of
                    the
                    book could've been published in colour anyway, unless someone drew some
                    coloured drawings. I did wonder when I read the review of the W&L book
                    in
                    the Review, whether there was an element of sour grapes in that the book
                    had been published by Wild Swan rather than by RCL....

                    In conclusion, we should be thankful that there are three high quality
                    publishers of books on the narrow gauge for us to spend our money on:

                    Firstly there's Wild Swan, the format is slightly dated now, but that
                    doesn't stop my enjoyment from reading them and I have quite a few!

                    Secondly, RCL, The quality of the Spooner Album, Slate Quarry and other
                    albums are second to none and I would have to rate their L&M book as the
                    best in the field making the best of modern technology.

                    Thirdly is Rail Romances, currently making my way through Iron Sherpa
                    Vol
                    2, runs the L&M book very closely for being the best imho!!

                    For me, these would be complete with a good quality history of the
                    Corris.

                    Cheers,
                    Andrew

                    ______________________________________________
                    This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
                    http://www.netintelligence.com/email





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • John C
                    However, the L&M book has 26% more pages than the WLLR book and an Index. The price per page works out very similar. (13.75p vs 13.42p). John
                    Message 9 of 25 , Apr 3, 2011
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                      However, the L&M book has 26% more pages than the WLLR book and an Index. The price per page works out very similar. (13.75p vs 13.42p).

                      John

                      --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Hingley" <pdh@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > The L&M book is also quite staggeringly expensive, perhaps
                      > in part due to the un necessary use of colour printing, which
                      > is why (much though I love the legend of the L&M and that beautiful
                      > part of Staffordshire) I have not yet bought a copy !
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > PDH
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > From: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com [mailto:7mmnga@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                      > Of andrewyoung@...
                      > Sent: 02 April 2011 12:52
                      > To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: Re: [7mm NGA] Re: WLLR Book Review
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Gents,
                      >
                      > My Link produced L&M book is out on the table at the moment after
                      > spending
                      > Tuesday, walking along part of the Manifold Way with my brother's
                      > family,
                      > I've just picked it up. Whilst it is an exquisite publication and
                      > certainly sets the standard for the future. It could equally be argued
                      > that the majority of colour in the book is a 'nice to have' rather than
                      > a
                      > 'must have'. Yes there are coloured maps and inked in drawings which are
                      > nice, yet the most use of colour for the main part has been to give the
                      > photos a sepia tinge rather than pure b&w!
                      >
                      > Equally, I like the Wild Swan layout, and as Adrian says, not much of
                      > the
                      > book could've been published in colour anyway, unless someone drew some
                      > coloured drawings. I did wonder when I read the review of the W&L book
                      > in
                      > the Review, whether there was an element of sour grapes in that the book
                      > had been published by Wild Swan rather than by RCL....
                      >
                      > In conclusion, we should be thankful that there are three high quality
                      > publishers of books on the narrow gauge for us to spend our money on:
                      >
                      > Firstly there's Wild Swan, the format is slightly dated now, but that
                      > doesn't stop my enjoyment from reading them and I have quite a few!
                      >
                      > Secondly, RCL, The quality of the Spooner Album, Slate Quarry and other
                      > albums are second to none and I would have to rate their L&M book as the
                      > best in the field making the best of modern technology.
                      >
                      > Thirdly is Rail Romances, currently making my way through Iron Sherpa
                      > Vol
                      > 2, runs the L&M book very closely for being the best imho!!
                      >
                      > For me, these would be complete with a good quality history of the
                      > Corris.
                      >
                      > Cheers,
                      > Andrew
                      >
                      > ______________________________________________
                      > This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
                      > http://www.netintelligence.com/email
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • ianj0trains
                      Hi, Quality always outlasts memory of the price though. The standard of that publication, or The Spooner Album, are obvious every time I pick them up, but I ve
                      Message 10 of 25 , Apr 3, 2011
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                        Hi,

                        Quality always outlasts memory of the price though.

                        The standard of that publication, or The Spooner Album, are obvious every time I pick them up, but I've no idea now what they cost me. Or for that matter what I paid for the Wild Swan books on the Ashover or Talyllyn, which I also much value.

                        Re which railway is due for a "top shelf" book next, sure it has to be the Festiniog ? I've original editions of Vol 1 and 2 of Boyds, but the amount of information that has come to light since he published those surely would justify a book to the standard of the L&M one ?

                        Cheers

                        Ian J

                        --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Hingley" <pdh@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > The L&M book is also quite staggeringly expensive, perhaps
                        > in part due to the un necessary use of colour printing, which
                        > is why (much though I love the legend of the L&M and that beautiful
                        > part of Staffordshire) I have not yet bought a copy !
                        >
                        >
                        > PDH
                        >
                      • adriangrayfr
                        The answer to the question in Ian s second paragraph has, surely, got to be, the Corris Railway, as Andy Young suggested a little earlier. I say this because
                        Message 11 of 25 , Apr 3, 2011
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                          The answer to the question in Ian's second paragraph has, surely, got to be, the Corris Railway, as Andy Young suggested a little earlier.

                          I say this because John Milner is already known to be well into the Glyn Valley.

                          As for the FR deserving a "top shelf" book, I refer Ian to Peter Johnson's work for OPC/Ian Allan**. As good and thorough a history of the prepreservation FR as anyone is going to produce until my colleague finally completes her work on the FR Archive and opens that collection. Peter has done a similar job for the Welsh Highland, now in its third edition. Both these books are, by comparison with the W&L and the L&M books extremely reasonably priced, a mere £19.99 each!

                          Adrian

                          ** An Illustrated History of the Festiniog Railway - ISBN 978-0-86093-603-9

                          --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "ianj0trains" <ianaj@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hi,
                          >
                          > Quality always outlasts memory of the price though.
                          >
                          > The standard of that publication, or The Spooner Album, are obvious every time I pick them up, but I've no idea now what they cost me. Or for that matter what I paid for the Wild Swan books on the Ashover or Talyllyn, which I also much value.
                          >
                          > Re which railway is due for a "top shelf" book next, sure it has to be the Festiniog ? I've original editions of Vol 1 and 2 of Boyds, but the amount of information that has come to light since he published those surely would justify a book to the standard of the L&M one ?
                          >
                          > Cheers
                          >
                          > Ian J
                          >
                          > --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Hingley" <pdh@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > The L&M book is also quite staggeringly expensive, perhaps
                          > > in part due to the un necessary use of colour printing, which
                          > > is why (much though I love the legend of the L&M and that beautiful
                          > > part of Staffordshire) I have not yet bought a copy !
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > PDH
                          > >
                          >
                        • adriangrayfr
                          Gentlemen, I know I have contributed to this thread as much as others but I now feel it is time to draw it to a close. Book Reviews are, mostly, quite
                          Message 12 of 25 , Apr 3, 2011
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                            Gentlemen,

                            I know I have contributed to this thread as much as others but I now feel it is time to draw it to a close.

                            Book Reviews are, mostly, quite subjective and are only ever intended as a guide to intending purchasers. Analysis such as John's below is, in my view, too forensic. If someone is interested in a subject they will usually buy the book, if it looks and feels right and if they can afford it. They are unlikely to make decisions based upon cost per page.

                            Now, the publishers of the books under discussion are both in the business to make a living but they are also both in the business because they love the process and their subjects. Each has their own, distinctive, style and each is successful.

                            As it happens, I'm honoured to count both men as friends and I value that greatly, so I would be very unhappy of discussion descended into unneccessary minutiae that might be misread.

                            I think we have said enough and hope that this message can draw the discussion to a close, please.

                            Adrian - Moderating

                            --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "John C" <jclutterbuck2001@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > However, the L&M book has 26% more pages than the WLLR book and an Index. The price per page works out very similar. (13.75p vs 13.42p).
                            >
                            > John
                            >
                            > --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Hingley" <pdh@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > The L&M book is also quite staggeringly expensive, perhaps
                            > > in part due to the un necessary use of colour printing, which
                            > > is why (much though I love the legend of the L&M and that beautiful
                            > > part of Staffordshire) I have not yet bought a copy !
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > PDH
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > From: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com [mailto:7mmnga@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                            > > Of andrewyoung@
                            > > Sent: 02 April 2011 12:52
                            > > To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
                            > > Subject: Re: [7mm NGA] Re: WLLR Book Review
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Gents,
                            > >
                            > > My Link produced L&M book is out on the table at the moment after
                            > > spending
                            > > Tuesday, walking along part of the Manifold Way with my brother's
                            > > family,
                            > > I've just picked it up. Whilst it is an exquisite publication and
                            > > certainly sets the standard for the future. It could equally be argued
                            > > that the majority of colour in the book is a 'nice to have' rather than
                            > > a
                            > > 'must have'. Yes there are coloured maps and inked in drawings which are
                            > > nice, yet the most use of colour for the main part has been to give the
                            > > photos a sepia tinge rather than pure b&w!
                            > >
                            > > Equally, I like the Wild Swan layout, and as Adrian says, not much of
                            > > the
                            > > book could've been published in colour anyway, unless someone drew some
                            > > coloured drawings. I did wonder when I read the review of the W&L book
                            > > in
                            > > the Review, whether there was an element of sour grapes in that the book
                            > > had been published by Wild Swan rather than by RCL....
                            > >
                            > > In conclusion, we should be thankful that there are three high quality
                            > > publishers of books on the narrow gauge for us to spend our money on:
                            > >
                            > > Firstly there's Wild Swan, the format is slightly dated now, but that
                            > > doesn't stop my enjoyment from reading them and I have quite a few!
                            > >
                            > > Secondly, RCL, The quality of the Spooner Album, Slate Quarry and other
                            > > albums are second to none and I would have to rate their L&M book as the
                            > > best in the field making the best of modern technology.
                            > >
                            > > Thirdly is Rail Romances, currently making my way through Iron Sherpa
                            > > Vol
                            > > 2, runs the L&M book very closely for being the best imho!!
                            > >
                            > > For me, these would be complete with a good quality history of the
                            > > Corris.
                            > >
                            > > Cheers,
                            > > Andrew
                            > >
                            > > ______________________________________________
                            > > This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
                            > > http://www.netintelligence.com/email
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            >
                          • Frank Sharp
                            Hi, I m usually very good about keeping parts for kits together. Open a box and there ll be the kit, motor, gearbox, wheels, plates, and the instructions with
                            Message 13 of 25 , Apr 5, 2011
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                              Hi,



                              I'm usually very good about keeping parts for kits together. Open a box and
                              there'll be the kit, motor, gearbox, wheels, plates, and the instructions
                              with notes on of where to find photos etc. It means that often years after I
                              bought it I can open the box and just start.



                              In a drawer I've turned up a brand new Tenshodo SPUD, 31 mm wheelbase. No
                              kit, no notes, all forlorn on its own. I've had it quite a while from what
                              it is buried under, and maybe it was bought in error for a shorter wheelbase
                              or as part of a job lot.



                              I'd like to use it but I've been through ABS catalogue and anything else I
                              can think of but I haven't found any body kit that fits. Anyone know of
                              anything intended to take such a relatively long wheelbase?



                              I'm not really looking to sell it, but conversely if anyone has a suitable
                              body kit to fit that they want rid of (cheaply) please contact me OFF GROUP.
                              I'm looking for something that might have been around 1920's /30's.



                              Thanks



                              Frank







                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • stephen howe
                              Frank, I d be interested to know too, I ve got one of these lurking in the workshop and not knowing what to do with it! Steve ________________________________
                              Message 14 of 25 , Apr 5, 2011
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Frank,
                                I'd be interested to know too, I've got one of these lurking in the workshop and
                                not knowing what to do with it!
                                Steve




                                ________________________________
                                From: Frank Sharp <robertfairlie@...>
                                To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Tuesday, 5 April, 2011 13:30:41
                                Subject: [7mm NGA] Orphan seeks parent

                                 
                                Hi,

                                I'm usually very good about keeping parts for kits together. Open a box and
                                there'll be the kit, motor, gearbox, wheels, plates, and the instructions
                                with notes on of where to find photos etc. It means that often years after I
                                bought it I can open the box and just start.

                                In a drawer I've turned up a brand new Tenshodo SPUD, 31 mm wheelbase. No
                                kit, no notes, all forlorn on its own. I've had it quite a while from what
                                it is buried under, and maybe it was bought in error for a shorter wheelbase
                                or as part of a job lot.

                                I'd like to use it but I've been through ABS catalogue and anything else I
                                can think of but I haven't found any body kit that fits. Anyone know of
                                anything intended to take such a relatively long wheelbase?

                                I'm not really looking to sell it, but conversely if anyone has a suitable
                                body kit to fit that they want rid of (cheaply) please contact me OFF GROUP.
                                I'm looking for something that might have been around 1920's /30's.

                                Thanks

                                Frank

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • bill2475dw
                                Hi Frank, Have you thought about making a tram type loco, like on the Portpyn layout. I saw an article years ago by Roy Link building his Excelsior loco, using
                                Message 15 of 25 , Apr 5, 2011
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Hi Frank,
                                  Have you thought about making a tram type loco, like on the Portpyn layout.
                                  I saw an article years ago by Roy Link building his Excelsior loco, using a spud.
                                  I hope this helps.
                                  Cheers
                                  Bill
                                • Gary Cox
                                  Frank From memory I thought the Wrightlines De Winton kit takes the 31mm Spud. In theory it should still be available from ABS Gary From:
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Apr 5, 2011
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Frank



                                    From memory I thought the Wrightlines De Winton kit takes the 31mm Spud. In
                                    theory it should still be available from ABS

                                    Gary



                                    From: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com [mailto:7mmnga@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                    Frank Sharp
                                    Sent: 05 April 2011 13:31
                                    To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: [7mm NGA] Orphan seeks parent





                                    Hi,

                                    I'm usually very good about keeping parts for kits together. Open a box and
                                    there'll be the kit, motor, gearbox, wheels, plates, and the instructions
                                    with notes on of where to find photos etc. It means that often years after I
                                    bought it I can open the box and just start.

                                    In a drawer I've turned up a brand new Tenshodo SPUD, 31 mm wheelbase. No
                                    kit, no notes, all forlorn on its own. I've had it quite a while from what
                                    it is buried under, and maybe it was bought in error for a shorter wheelbase
                                    or as part of a job lot.

                                    I'd like to use it but I've been through ABS catalogue and anything else I
                                    can think of but I haven't found any body kit that fits. Anyone know of
                                    anything intended to take such a relatively long wheelbase?

                                    I'm not really looking to sell it, but conversely if anyone has a suitable
                                    body kit to fit that they want rid of (cheaply) please contact me OFF GROUP.
                                    I'm looking for something that might have been around 1920's /30's.

                                    Thanks

                                    Frank

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Frank Sharp
                                    Gary, You might have solved why I have it. I have a DeWinton to do, and it might have come S/H with the Spud. However even if that s why it was in a drawer I
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Apr 5, 2011
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                                      Gary,



                                      You might have solved why I have it. I have a DeWinton to do, and it might
                                      have come S/H with the Spud. However even if that's why it was in a drawer I
                                      still need a body for it as I make my own chassis for DeWintons.



                                      Frank







                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Sonnie Raee
                                      Frank, Could your Spud be looking for a De Winton to play with. Regards Sonnie
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Apr 6, 2011
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Frank,
                                        Could your Spud be looking for a De Winton to play with.
                                        Regards Sonnie


                                        --- On Tue, 5/4/11, Frank Sharp <robertfairlie@...> wrote:

                                        > From: Frank Sharp <robertfairlie@...>
                                        > Subject: [7mm NGA] Orphan seeks parent
                                        > To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Date: Tuesday, 5 April, 2011, 13:30
                                        > Hi,
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > I'm usually very good about keeping parts for kits
                                        > together. Open a box and
                                        > there'll be the kit, motor, gearbox, wheels, plates, and
                                        > the instructions
                                        > with notes on of where to find photos etc. It means that
                                        > often years after I
                                        > bought it I can open the box and just start.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > In a drawer I've turned up a brand new Tenshodo SPUD, 31 mm
                                        > wheelbase. No
                                        > kit, no notes, all forlorn on its own. I've had it quite a
                                        > while from what
                                        > it is buried under, and maybe it was bought in error for a
                                        > shorter wheelbase
                                        > or as part of a job lot.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > I'd like to use it but I've been through ABS catalogue and
                                        > anything else I
                                        > can think of but I haven't found any body kit that fits.
                                        > Anyone know of
                                        > anything intended to take such a relatively long
                                        > wheelbase?
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > I'm not really looking to sell it, but conversely if anyone
                                        > has a suitable
                                        > body kit to fit that they want rid of (cheaply) please
                                        > contact me OFF GROUP.
                                        > I'm looking for something that might have been around
                                        > 1920's /30's.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Thanks
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Frank
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ------------------------------------
                                        >
                                        > This group is:
                                        > 1 - for people interested in modelling narrow gauge
                                        > railways in 7mm:1ft scale or thereabouts
                                        > 2 - not restricted to members of the 7mm Narrow Gauge
                                        > Association although membership of said organisation is
                                        > thoroughly recommended
                                        > 3 - moderated by current serving members of the 7mm Narrow
                                        > Gauge Association committeeYahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >     7mmnga-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                      • stephen howe
                                        Anyone know how easy (or otherwise) it is to put extended axles and outside cranks on a a Spud? Steve ________________________________ Frank, Could your Spud
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Apr 6, 2011
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Anyone know how easy (or otherwise) it is to put extended axles and outside
                                          cranks on a a Spud?

                                          Steve



                                          ________________________________

                                          Frank,
                                          Could your Spud be looking for a De Winton to play with.
                                          Regards Sonnie

                                          --->
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > ------------------------------------
                                          >
                                          > This group is:
                                          > 1 - for people interested in modelling narrow gauge
                                          > railways in 7mm:1ft scale or thereabouts
                                          > 2 - not restricted to members of the 7mm Narrow Gauge
                                          > Association although membership of said organisation is
                                          > thoroughly recommended
                                          > 3 - moderated by current serving members of the 7mm Narrow
                                          > Gauge Association committeeYahoo! Groups Links
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >     7mmnga-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >



                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Mick
                                          Hi all! I have used SPUDs by extending the axles on my D&HR Class D Garratt. See the photo-file! The axles are 2mm steel rod - easily available for mini gear
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Apr 6, 2011
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Hi all!
                                            I have used SPUDs by extending the axles on my D&HR Class 'D' Garratt. See the photo-file!
                                            The axles are 2mm steel rod - easily available for mini gear sets.
                                            The wheels are 14mm dia. from the usual sources.
                                            I 'crimp' the axle in the centre to grip the gear.
                                            The ends of the axles are 'reduced' by rotating in an Expo drill and using a file until small enough to run a die down them to suit Romford outside cranks with brass balance weights added. The pick-ups will need attention to rub on the rims of the larger wheels. It has worked well for me & I will probably use the same methods again. The valve gear is modified from a suitable etch from Comet, but Branchlines do sets of cranks & coupling rods for SPUDs.
                                            Happy cobbling from a sunny Gloucestershire, Robert. No. 2823.

                                            --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, stephen howe <stephenjhowe@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Anyone know how easy (or otherwise) it is to put extended axles and outside
                                            > cranks on a a Spud?
                                            >
                                          • andrewyoung@mypostoffice.co.uk
                                            Somone else has already pointed out it could be from a De Winton. What chassis is supposed to go under the WD Tin Turtles the 40Hp simplexes?AndrewIn a
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Apr 6, 2011
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Somone else has already pointed out it could be from a De Winton. What
                                              chassis is supposed to go under the WD Tin Turtles the 40Hp simplexes?

                                              Andrew

                                              > In a drawer I've turned up a brand new Tenshodo SPUD, 31 mm wheelbase. No
                                              > kit, no notes, all forlorn on its own. I've had it quite a while from what
                                              > it is buried under, and maybe it was bought in error for a shorter
                                              > wheelbase
                                              > or as part of a job lot.



                                              ______________________________________________
                                              This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
                                              http://www.netintelligence.com/email
                                            • ianj0trains
                                              Hi All, The Branchlines flycranks and rods were/are for the 31mm Spud. I ve got two sets of them that have been sitting here for probably around 15 years or
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Apr 6, 2011
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                                                Hi All,

                                                The Branchlines flycranks and rods were/are for the 31mm Spud. I've got two sets of them that have been sitting here for probably around 15 years or so, maybe longer, but only one 31mm Spud. No idea now why either...

                                                Cheers

                                                Ian J


                                                --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "Mick" <diggypatch@...> wrote:
                                                >> Hi all!
                                                >
                                                SNIP

                                                > The valve gear is modified from a suitable etch from Comet, but Branchlines do sets of cranks & coupling rods for SPUDs.

                                                > Happy cobbling from a sunny Gloucestershire, Robert. No. 2823.
                                                >
                                              • Bruce Wilson
                                                ... Tenshodo WB28.7 according to the kit I have. ... - Bruce Wilson Barrie, Ontario Life Member NMRA Member Gauge 0 Guild Member Scale 7 Group
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Apr 6, 2011
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  At 17:15 4/6/2011, you wrote:
                                                  >Somone else has already pointed out it could be from a De Winton. What
                                                  >chassis is supposed to go under the WD Tin Turtles the 40Hp simplexes?
                                                  >
                                                  >Andrew


                                                  Tenshodo WB28.7 according to the kit I have.


                                                  > > In a drawer I've turned up a brand new Tenshodo SPUD, 31 mm wheelbase. No
                                                  > > kit, no notes, all forlorn on its own. I've had it quite a while from what
                                                  > > it is buried under, and maybe it was bought in error for a shorter
                                                  > > wheelbase
                                                  > > or as part of a job lot.
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >______________________________________________
                                                  >This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
                                                  >http://www.netintelligence.com/email
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >------------------------------------
                                                  >
                                                  >This group is:
                                                  >1 - for people interested in modelling narrow gauge railways in
                                                  >7mm:1ft scale or thereabouts
                                                  >2 - not restricted to members of the 7mm Narrow Gauge Association
                                                  >although membership of said organisation is thoroughly recommended
                                                  >3 - moderated by current serving members of the 7mm Narrow Gauge
                                                  >Association committeeYahoo! Groups Links
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  -
                                                  Bruce Wilson
                                                  Barrie, Ontario
                                                  Life Member NMRA Member Gauge 0 Guild
                                                  Member Scale 7 Group Member 7mm NGA
                                                  Member Bird Studies Canada Member Ontario Bird Banding Association
                                                • Brian Rumary
                                                  ... I doubt it would matter too much, as the wheels and chassis of these locos were completely hidden! Rather like on the PECO kit for the Glyn Valley locos.
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , Apr 8, 2011
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    Andrewyoung@... wrote:

                                                    > What
                                                    > chassis is supposed to go under the WD Tin Turtles the 40Hp simplexes?

                                                    I doubt it would matter too much, as the wheels and chassis of these
                                                    locos were completely hidden! Rather like on the PECO kit for the Glyn
                                                    Valley locos.

                                                    Brian Rumary, England

                                                    www.rumary.co.uk
                                                  • Geoff Loynes
                                                    I used a Tenshodo Spud when I built one from a Wrightlines kit. ISTR that the cast brackets holding the chassis in place underneath occasionally grounded on
                                                    Message 25 of 25 , Apr 9, 2011
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      I used a Tenshodo Spud when I built one from a Wrightlines kit. ISTR that the cast brackets holding the chassis in place underneath occasionally grounded on pointwork, so I had to take a file to the castings to improve the clearances!

                                                      Geoff L


                                                      > Andrewyoung@... wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > > What
                                                      > > chassis is supposed to go under the WD Tin Turtles the 40Hp simplexes?
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