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Re: any advice/help for a beginner to airbrushing using acrylics

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  • Track Dog
    ... learning to back pressure in relation to stripping down and cleaning the airbrush? also where you go on to describe a starting point for thinning or
    Message 1 of 15 , Sep 13 7:13 PM
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      --- Leonard, I have tried the website www.pascheairbrush.com a few times trying to find the two books you reccomended but although I was on the correct website (I think!!),

      "learning to back pressure" in relation to stripping down and cleaning the airbrush? also where you go on to describe a "starting point" for thinning or diluting the paint you mention 70% pigment, 20% thinners and 10% glaze or retarder, because of my limited knowledge of airbrushing terminology I am unsure of what is meant by "glaze or retarder",

      I think pigment refers to the paint

      > Finally Leonard you also mention you up-loaded some photos on Air Brush Cleaning >
      >

      John, Your welcome glad to help out. First off the Passche site. My bad I did not add the seconed s in Passche. So go to www.passcheairbrush.com then to books and videos scroll part way down to TTALB 22 Airbrush Lessons for Beginners. Below that is GSIA Getting Started with a Airbrush.
      In some mix formulas like Floquil they use a three part mix of paint thinner and glaze (Which gives the finish a glossy look). Some formulas call for a retarder which slows the drying time of the paint down. There are also accelerators which speed the drying time of the paint. This is where we are getting into advanced painting like three part epoxys and carbon finishes not really needed for hobby painting just to let you know you can slow or speed the drying time of paint.

      Pigment is part of the paint along with the vehicle. Pigment is made up of the color, binders like kelp, latex and so forth. It's the part that you see in a dried up can or bottle of paint. The vehicle is the thinner, and products to cause the paint to level and float properly when you apply it and retarders so it doesn't dry too fast or cure compleatly.
      With some paints you don't need to do much of anything except shoot it like Scale Coat stright out of the bottle. Maybe a little cut depending on the barametric pressure and temp. your working at.

      (Voice over of Gram Clease Monty Python)
      Back pressuring the gun. Take a rag in your left hand (If your right handed) and the fully assembled airbrush in your rigt hand. Hold rag aproxmatly two to three inches from the nozzle of the gun. Shoot some thinner/cleaner through the gun. A couple of short bursts (Spit, Spit). Now place the rag over the nozzle and shoot a couple of short burst into the rag (Be carefull tilt the brush and cup up and away from you, have the surface covered by about a foot or so) The thinner/cleaner will back spray through the color cup syphon tube and out of the cup if clean. (And on you if you haven't tilted it) If almost clean it will bubble, if dirty nothing denada; And that's back pressuring the gun or airbrush.

      Http://groupsyahoo.com/groups/OSCALEMODELERS.com go to photos section look for Air Brush Cleaning by:LLeeblues. There you will find some pictures I up-loaded for a friend, they may help they may not.

      John please feel free to ask me anything about painting. I do not know it all but I know some and what I don't I will find out.

      Might I suggest "Get thee to thy computer and look up how paint is made. That's one of the difference between Scale coat and Sherwin Williams is how fine the pigment is ground. That's why you can see the detials with Scale Coat or Floquil.

      Best Regards,
      Leonard "Lee" Davis
    • Michael
      I am still a raw beginner but I have learned a few things: 1. Do not use Tamiya thinners with Vallejo paints. The latter do not like alcohol at all. 2. Keep a
      Message 2 of 15 , Sep 14 1:42 AM
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        I am still a raw beginner but I have learned a few things:

        1. Do not use Tamiya thinners with Vallejo paints. The latter do not like alcohol at all.

        2. Keep a bucket of water and a roll of kitchen roll handy. I found the bucket of water very handy for flushing the airbrush, the hard part is finding a clean bucket, actually sometimes any bucket. No matter how many I buy they just seem to vanish. Of course if you are not using water based paints ignore this – except the bit about the kitchen roll.

        3. Use the right primer for the substrate. I still use aerosol cans for this.

        4. Compressors are great – but they can be very, very noisy.

        5. The little soft plastic pipettes are wonderfully useful and a big box of them is only £20 or so on Ebay.

        6. They aren't joking about ventilation.

        7. Spend the extra on good masking tape, Tamiya seems to be the easiest to find.

        8. Lock the cat up when airbrushing.

        9. A wet windy day is not a good time to airbrush.

        I had been using Tamiya acrylics but now I am moving to Vallejo as they are more pleasant to use and seem to clean up more easily when (not if) I put them somewhere I should not.

        I bought a cheap lazy Susan turntable ring from Squires and fitted it to some MDF offcuts, including a hexagonal top which I had by chance (I was given a stack of 12 inch or so AF 6mm MDF hexagons by a friend) which makes a cheap and handy turntable which is really useful. The airbrush shop has small, neat, cheap ones but their postage rates are a killer.

        I had been using a fairly basic single action Aztec airbrush which worked well until it got into the habit of dismantling itself and I became fed up with chasing the detached air line across the floor and so bought an Iwata TR which is admittedly a serious case of overkill.

        I have not tried airbrushing anything except Tamiya and Vallejo acrylics.

        While Vallejo do a special airbrush paint their regular acrylics seem to airbrush very well if thinned down a little. I have tried water and their own thinner and the latter does seem to work a little better.

        The Tamiya acrylics smell more strongly as they have an alcohol base but they dry very quickly. When dry they might be more fragile than the Vallejo paints but I am not at all sure about this.

        One advantage of the metal bodied Iwata airbrush is that the body and seals are solvent resistant so I can use cellulose thinners to clean up in an emergency. I have not needed to yet but the option was one reason for picking one.

        You can buy tins of airbush cleaner, I am not very sure what it is but it is strong, unpleasant and doubtless dangerous stuff.


        Michael
      • Peter Hingley
        Hard luck Vallejo !! :-0 PDH From: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com [mailto:7mmnga@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Sent: 14 September 2010 09:43 To:
        Message 3 of 15 , Sep 14 1:56 AM
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          Hard luck Vallejo !! :-0



          PDH



          From: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com [mailto:7mmnga@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael
          Sent: 14 September 2010 09:43
          To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [7mm NGA] Re: any advice/help for a beginner to airbrushing using acrylics [Scanned]






          I am still a raw beginner but I have learned a few things:

          1. Do not use Tamiya thinners with Vallejo paints. The latter do not like alcohol at all.

          2. Keep a bucket of water and a roll of kitchen roll handy. I found the bucket of water very handy for flushing the airbrush, the hard part is finding a clean bucket, actually sometimes any bucket. No matter how many I buy they just seem to vanish. Of course if you are not using water based paints ignore this - except the bit about the kitchen roll.

          3. Use the right primer for the substrate. I still use aerosol cans for this.

          4. Compressors are great - but they can be very, very noisy.

          5. The little soft plastic pipettes are wonderfully useful and a big box of them is only £20 or so on Ebay.

          6. They aren't joking about ventilation.

          7. Spend the extra on good masking tape, Tamiya seems to be the easiest to find.

          8. Lock the cat up when airbrushing.

          9. A wet windy day is not a good time to airbrush.

          I had been using Tamiya acrylics but now I am moving to Vallejo as they are more pleasant to use and seem to clean up more easily when (not if) I put them somewhere I should not.

          I bought a cheap lazy Susan turntable ring from Squires and fitted it to some MDF offcuts, including a hexagonal top which I had by chance (I was given a stack of 12 inch or so AF 6mm MDF hexagons by a friend) which makes a cheap and handy turntable which is really useful. The airbrush shop has small, neat, cheap ones but their postage rates are a killer.

          I had been using a fairly basic single action Aztec airbrush which worked well until it got into the habit of dismantling itself and I became fed up with chasing the detached air line across the floor and so bought an Iwata TR which is admittedly a serious case of overkill.

          I have not tried airbrushing anything except Tamiya and Vallejo acrylics.

          While Vallejo do a special airbrush paint their regular acrylics seem to airbrush very well if thinned down a little. I have tried water and their own thinner and the latter does seem to work a little better.

          The Tamiya acrylics smell more strongly as they have an alcohol base but they dry very quickly. When dry they might be more fragile than the Vallejo paints but I am not at all sure about this.

          One advantage of the metal bodied Iwata airbrush is that the body and seals are solvent resistant so I can use cellulose thinners to clean up in an emergency. I have not needed to yet but the option was one reason for picking one.

          You can buy tins of airbush cleaner, I am not very sure what it is but it is strong, unpleasant and doubtless dangerous stuff.

          Michael





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Brian Lewis
          Now signwriters and the like have a secret product that nobody else seems to know about. It is called Owatrol Paint Conditioner . It is an extender - one
          Message 4 of 15 , Sep 14 2:53 AM
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            Now signwriters and the like have a 'secret' product that nobody
            else seems to know about. It is called 'Owatrol Paint Conditioner'.

            It is an extender - one tiny drop improves the finish, aids flow
            and preserves a wet edge. Brilliant!

            But.... they also supply an equivalent for water based paints,
            and they do suggest it aids flow of acrylic paints in air guns.
            I have not used this, but have just ordered a litre can. If it
            is as good as Owatrol, then I will use it every time get out the
            acrylic paint.



            Regards



            Brian Lewis
          • sean
            ... Thanks again for all your advice and help to my never ending questions, I have tried quite a number of times to access the website www.passcheairbrush.com
            Message 5 of 15 , Sep 19 5:01 PM
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              --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "Track Dog" <lleeblues@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > --- Leonard, I have tried the website www.pascheairbrush.com a few times trying to find the two books you reccomended but although I was on the correct website (I think!!),
              >
              > "learning to back pressure" in relation to stripping down and cleaning the airbrush? also where you go on to describe a "starting point" for thinning or diluting the paint you mention 70% pigment, 20% thinners and 10% glaze or retarder, because of my limited knowledge of airbrushing terminology I am unsure of what is meant by "glaze or retarder",
              >
              > I think pigment refers to the paint
              >
              > > Finally Leonard you also mention you up-loaded some photos on Air Brush Cleaning >
              > >
              >
              > John, Your welcome glad to help out. First off the Passche site. My bad I did not add the seconed s in Passche. So go to www.passcheairbrush.com then to books and videos scroll part way down to TTALB 22 Airbrush Lessons for Beginners. Below that is GSIA Getting Started with a Airbrush.
              > In some mix formulas like Floquil they use a three part mix of paint thinner and glaze (Which gives the finish a glossy look). Some formulas call for a retarder which slows the drying time of the paint down. There are also accelerators which speed the drying time of the paint. This is where we are getting into advanced painting like three part epoxys and carbon finishes not really needed for hobby painting just to let you know you can slow or speed the drying time of paint.
              >
              > Pigment is part of the paint along with the vehicle. Pigment is made up of the color, binders like kelp, latex and so forth. It's the part that you see in a dried up can or bottle of paint. The vehicle is the thinner, and products to cause the paint to level and float properly when you apply it and retarders so it doesn't dry too fast or cure compleatly.
              > With some paints you don't need to do much of anything except shoot it like Scale Coat stright out of the bottle. Maybe a little cut depending on the barametric pressure and temp. your working at.
              >
              > (Voice over of Gram Clease Monty Python)
              > Back pressuring the gun. Take a rag in your left hand (If your right handed) and the fully assembled airbrush in your rigt hand. Hold rag aproxmatly two to three inches from the nozzle of the gun. Shoot some thinner/cleaner through the gun. A couple of short bursts (Spit, Spit). Now place the rag over the nozzle and shoot a couple of short burst into the rag (Be carefull tilt the brush and cup up and away from you, have the surface covered by about a foot or so) The thinner/cleaner will back spray through the color cup syphon tube and out of the cup if clean. (And on you if you haven't tilted it) If almost clean it will bubble, if dirty nothing denada; And that's back pressuring the gun or airbrush.
              >
              > Http://groupsyahoo.com/groups/OSCALEMODELERS.com go to photos section look for Air Brush Cleaning by:LLeeblues. There you will find some pictures I up-loaded for a friend, they may help they may not.
              >
              > John please feel free to ask me anything about painting. I do not know it all but I know some and what I don't I will find out.
              >
              > Might I suggest "Get thee to thy computer and look up how paint is made. That's one of the difference between Scale coat and Sherwin Williams is how fine the pigment is ground. That's why you can see the detials with Scale Coat or Floquil.
              >
              > Best Regards,
              > Leonard "Lee" Davis
              >Hello again Leonard
              Thanks again for all your advice and help to my never ending questions, I have tried quite a number of times to access the website www.passcheairbrush.com to buy the books you mention and for some reason I still cannot access the specific site you mention Leonard, it keeps referring me to a website with a similar but not exactly the same name/spelling as the one you reccomend. I have also tried Amazon for the books again with no success, and also a very well known bookseller chain of shops here in the UK. with no success.
              If possible Leonard can you supply me with information re the publisher, authors, ISBN No, which may help me track them down via Amazon or if you know of a different supplier on the web who may supply the books.
              Sorry to ask you more questions Leonard hope you dont mind me taking up your time again.
              Thanks all the best,John.
            • Frank Metcalf
              Hi Sean, Try http://www.paascheairbrush.com/ for the information you require. Best wishes Frank Metcalf [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              Message 6 of 15 , Sep 20 12:07 AM
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                Hi Sean,



                Try http://www.paascheairbrush.com/ for the information you require.



                Best wishes



                Frank Metcalf






                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Chris
                John:- I am inclined to think that the alternative site you mention is probably the correct one. Certainly the spelling of Paasche rather than Passche
                Message 7 of 15 , Sep 20 12:10 AM
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                  John:-

                  I am inclined to think that the alternative site you mention is probably the correct one. Certainly the spelling of "Paasche" rather than "Passche" seems more logical.

                  More to the point, on that site, at http://www.paascheairbrush.com/books_videos.html you can see the very book that Leonard mentions.

                  Perhaps Leonard could confirm this?

                  All the best

                  Chris

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: sean
                  To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 1:01 AM
                  Subject: [7mm NGA] Re: any advice/help for a beginner to airbrushing using acrylics





                  --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "Track Dog" <lleeblues@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- Leonard, I have tried the website www.pascheairbrush.com a few times trying to find the two books you reccomended but although I was on the correct website (I think!!),
                  >
                  > "learning to back pressure" in relation to stripping down and cleaning the airbrush? also where you go on to describe a "starting point" for thinning or diluting the paint you mention 70% pigment, 20% thinners and 10% glaze or retarder, because of my limited knowledge of airbrushing terminology I am unsure of what is meant by "glaze or retarder",
                  >
                  > I think pigment refers to the paint
                  >
                  > > Finally Leonard you also mention you up-loaded some photos on Air Brush Cleaning >
                  > >
                  >
                  > John, Your welcome glad to help out. First off the Passche site. My bad I did not add the seconed s in Passche. So go to www.passcheairbrush.com then to books and videos scroll part way down to TTALB 22 Airbrush Lessons for Beginners. Below that is GSIA Getting Started with a Airbrush.
                  > In some mix formulas like Floquil they use a three part mix of paint thinner and glaze (Which gives the finish a glossy look). Some formulas call for a retarder which slows the drying time of the paint down. There are also accelerators which speed the drying time of the paint. This is where we are getting into advanced painting like three part epoxys and carbon finishes not really needed for hobby painting just to let you know you can slow or speed the drying time of paint.
                  >
                  > Pigment is part of the paint along with the vehicle. Pigment is made up of the color, binders like kelp, latex and so forth. It's the part that you see in a dried up can or bottle of paint. The vehicle is the thinner, and products to cause the paint to level and float properly when you apply it and retarders so it doesn't dry too fast or cure compleatly.
                  > With some paints you don't need to do much of anything except shoot it like Scale Coat stright out of the bottle. Maybe a little cut depending on the barametric pressure and temp. your working at.
                  >
                  > (Voice over of Gram Clease Monty Python)
                  > Back pressuring the gun. Take a rag in your left hand (If your right handed) and the fully assembled airbrush in your rigt hand. Hold rag aproxmatly two to three inches from the nozzle of the gun. Shoot some thinner/cleaner through the gun. A couple of short bursts (Spit, Spit). Now place the rag over the nozzle and shoot a couple of short burst into the rag (Be carefull tilt the brush and cup up and away from you, have the surface covered by about a foot or so) The thinner/cleaner will back spray through the color cup syphon tube and out of the cup if clean. (And on you if you haven't tilted it) If almost clean it will bubble, if dirty nothing denada; And that's back pressuring the gun or airbrush.
                  >
                  > Http://groupsyahoo.com/groups/OSCALEMODELERS.com go to photos section look for Air Brush Cleaning by:LLeeblues. There you will find some pictures I up-loaded for a friend, they may help they may not.
                  >
                  > John please feel free to ask me anything about painting. I do not know it all but I know some and what I don't I will find out.
                  >
                  > Might I suggest "Get thee to thy computer and look up how paint is made. That's one of the difference between Scale coat and Sherwin Williams is how fine the pigment is ground. That's why you can see the detials with Scale Coat or Floquil.
                  >
                  > Best Regards,
                  > Leonard "Lee" Davis
                  >Hello again Leonard
                  Thanks again for all your advice and help to my never ending questions, I have tried quite a number of times to access the website www.passcheairbrush.com to buy the books you mention and for some reason I still cannot access the specific site you mention Leonard, it keeps referring me to a website with a similar but not exactly the same name/spelling as the one you reccomend. I have also tried Amazon for the books again with no success, and also a very well known bookseller chain of shops here in the UK. with no success.
                  If possible Leonard can you supply me with information re the publisher, authors, ISBN No, which may help me track them down via Amazon or if you know of a different supplier on the web who may supply the books.
                  Sorry to ask you more questions Leonard hope you dont mind me taking up your time again.
                  Thanks all the best,John.





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • martincoombsuk
                  You could go to YouTube and type in airbrush and you will find thousands of videos explaining about airbrushing. Martin
                  Message 8 of 15 , Sep 20 7:53 AM
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                    You could go to YouTube and type in 'airbrush' and you will find thousands of videos explaining about airbrushing.

                    Martin
                  • adriangrayfr
                    That, and the advice to practice, practice, practice, mess it up and practice some more, is probably the most helpful message written in this thread!! Nothing
                    Message 9 of 15 , Sep 20 2:11 PM
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                      That, and the advice to practice, practice, practice, mess it up and practice some more, is probably the most helpful message written in this thread!!
                      Nothing beats a demonstration and YouTube should give plenty of those.

                      Adrian - TLO

                      --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "martincoombsuk" <martin.coombs@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > You could go to YouTube and type in 'airbrush' and you will find thousands of videos explaining about airbrushing.
                      >
                      > Martin
                      >
                    • Kevin Staddon
                      Someone ( professional model maker) once recommended to me to spray consistency of milk. Perhaps trying some? Kevin Staddon www.exemrs.co.uk [Non-text portions
                      Message 10 of 15 , Sep 20 2:20 PM
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                        Someone ( professional model maker) once recommended to me to spray consistency of milk. Perhaps trying some?
                        Kevin Staddon
                        www.exemrs.co.uk

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Leonard Davis
                        John, Criss, Yes that is the right site and the two  books I recomended. Regards,               Leonard Lee Davis
                        Message 11 of 15 , Sep 20 2:32 PM
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                          John, Criss, Yes that is the right site and the two  books I recomended.

                          Regards,
                                        Leonard Lee Davis




                          ________________________________
                          From: Chris <chris@...>
                          To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Mon, September 20, 2010 3:10:29 AM
                          Subject: Re: [7mm NGA] Re: any advice/help for a beginner to airbrushing using
                          acrylics

                           
                          John:-

                          I am inclined to think that the alternative site you mention is probably the
                          correct one. Certainly the spelling of "Paasche" rather than "Passche" seems
                          more logical.

                          More to the point, on that site, at
                          http://www.paascheairbrush.com/books_videos.html you can see the very book that
                          Leonard mentions.

                          Perhaps Leonard could confirm this?

                          All the best

                          Chris

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: sean
                          To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 1:01 AM
                          Subject: [7mm NGA] Re: any advice/help for a beginner to airbrushing using
                          acrylics

                          --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "Track Dog" <lleeblues@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- Leonard, I have tried the website www.pascheairbrush.com a few times trying
                          >to find the two books you reccomended but although I was on the correct website
                          >(I think!!),
                          >
                          >
                          > "learning to back pressure" in relation to stripping down and cleaning the
                          >airbrush? also where you go on to describe a "starting point" for thinning or
                          >diluting the paint you mention 70% pigment, 20% thinners and 10% glaze or
                          >retarder, because of my limited knowledge of airbrushing terminology I am unsure
                          >of what is meant by "glaze or retarder",
                          >
                          > I think pigment refers to the paint
                          >
                          > > Finally Leonard you also mention you up-loaded some photos on Air Brush
                          >Cleaning >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > John, Your welcome glad to help out. First off the Passche site. My bad I did
                          >not add the seconed s in Passche. So go to www.passcheairbrush.com then to books
                          >and videos scroll part way down to TTALB 22 Airbrush Lessons for Beginners.
                          >Below that is GSIA Getting Started with a Airbrush.
                          > In some mix formulas like Floquil they use a three part mix of paint thinner
                          >and glaze (Which gives the finish a glossy look). Some formulas call for a
                          >retarder which slows the drying time of the paint down. There are also
                          >accelerators which speed the drying time of the paint. This is where we are
                          >getting into advanced painting like three part epoxys and carbon finishes not
                          >really needed for hobby painting just to let you know you can slow or speed the
                          >drying time of paint.
                          >
                          > Pigment is part of the paint along with the vehicle. Pigment is made up of the
                          >color, binders like kelp, latex and so forth. It's the part that you see in a
                          >dried up can or bottle of paint. The vehicle is the thinner, and products to
                          >cause the paint to level and float properly when you apply it and retarders so
                          >it doesn't dry too fast or cure compleatly.
                          > With some paints you don't need to do much of anything except shoot it like
                          >Scale Coat stright out of the bottle. Maybe a little cut depending on the
                          >barametric pressure and temp. your working at.
                          >
                          > (Voice over of Gram Clease Monty Python)
                          > Back pressuring the gun. Take a rag in your left hand (If your right handed)
                          >and the fully assembled airbrush in your rigt hand. Hold rag aproxmatly two to
                          >three inches from the nozzle of the gun. Shoot some thinner/cleaner through the
                          >gun. A couple of short bursts (Spit, Spit). Now place the rag over the nozzle
                          >and shoot a couple of short burst into the rag (Be carefull tilt the brush and
                          >cup up and away from you, have the surface covered by about a foot or so) The
                          >thinner/cleaner will back spray through the color cup syphon tube and out of the
                          >cup if clean. (And on you if you haven't tilted it) If almost clean it will
                          >bubble, if dirty nothing denada; And that's back pressuring the gun or airbrush.
                          >
                          > Http://groupsyahoo.com/groups/OSCALEMODELERS.com go to photos section look for
                          >Air Brush Cleaning by:LLeeblues. There you will find some pictures I up-loaded
                          >for a friend, they may help they may not.
                          >
                          > John please feel free to ask me anything about painting. I do not know it all
                          >but I know some and what I don't I will find out.
                          >
                          >
                          > Might I suggest "Get thee to thy computer and look up how paint is made. That's
                          >one of the difference between Scale coat and Sherwin Williams is how fine the
                          >pigment is ground. That's why you can see the detials with Scale Coat or
                          >Floquil.
                          >
                          > Best Regards,
                          > Leonard "Lee" Davis
                          >Hello again Leonard
                          Thanks again for all your advice and help to my never ending questions, I have
                          tried quite a number of times to access the website www.passcheairbrush.com to
                          buy the books you mention and for some reason I still cannot access the specific
                          site you mention Leonard, it keeps referring me to a website with a similar but
                          not exactly the same name/spelling as the one you reccomend. I have also tried
                          Amazon for the books again with no success, and also a very well known
                          bookseller chain of shops here in the UK. with no success.
                          If possible Leonard can you supply me with information re the publisher,
                          authors, ISBN No, which may help me track them down via Amazon or if you know of
                          a different supplier on the web who may supply the books.
                          Sorry to ask you more questions Leonard hope you dont mind me taking up your
                          time again.
                          Thanks all the best,John.

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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