Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

RE: [7mm NGA] L & B vans, I think

Expand Messages
  • Paul Martin
    ... Models but then developed the ZTC DCC business.
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 9, 2010
      >> The range was than sold to ? Nicholson who traded for a short time as L&B
      Models but then developed the ZTC DCC business.<<



      I would just add to that the fact that Dave Nicholson bought the range to
      take some inferior models off the market as he brought out his own L&B
      models range with no intention of reusing those moulds.



      Paul Martin



      From: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com [mailto:7mmnga@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
      Mike Bellamy
      Sent: 09 January 2010 23:38
      To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [7mm NGA] L & B vans, I think





      Hi Frank

      I saw those on Ebay as well - there was a lot of 7mmNG stuff from the same
      vendor but it all went out of my limited price range.

      I would agree that they are L&B - I believe they originated with Bill
      Ferguson and I recall buying some 'seconds' from him at a Nottingham
      Convention many years ago. The range was than sold to ? Nicholson who traded
      for a short time as L&B Models but then developed the ZTC DCC business.

      It looks like there were 4 bogie goods vans with the bracing and the one you
      have without the bracing will be one of 3 brake vans.

      If you come to the Mickleover Open Day next weekend I have 3 reference books
      you can look at including drawings - plus of course our own Association has
      some L&B drawings in NL Extra No2

      Oh "*^! - just seen that Mr TLO has got I reply in while I was typing this
      !!

      Mike

      Does any one know the origin of these resin castings.

      Can anyone suggest a source of photos or drawings.

      Frank

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Phil Traxson
      Bill Ferguson cast in the creamy resin as well, as a matter of fact he was the person who gave me the address of my supplier for the resin I use, at one of the
      Message 2 of 12 , Jan 9, 2010
        Bill Ferguson cast in the creamy resin as well, as a matter of fact he was
        the person who gave me the address of my supplier for the resin I use, at
        one of the conventions at Nottingham.

        Paul Martins comments in the later posting are quite right, Bill's castings
        could be quite good but his patternmaking 15 + years ago was not brilliant.

        Phil T.



        -----Original Message-----
        From: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com [mailto:7mmnga@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
        adriangrayfr
        Sent: 09 January 2010 23:29
        To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [7mm NGA] Re: L & B vans, I think



        Frank,

        Only by inference, your mention of the w/m bogies, can one gather that
        these are bogie vehicles!! As that appears the case you are probably correct
        in your assumption about their prototype.

        I can also make some guesses about their origin.

        Is the resin creamy, in the style of a Port Wynnstay casting, or is it
        translucent.
        If the latter I'm fairly certain that these will be castings from Bill
        Ferguson who made a number of L&B kits some years ago.
        If the former my instinct would be to say "L&B Models". But, I don;t think
        they got round to the bogie vans and their castings were of universally high
        quality, which doesn't match your description.

        I confess that I've got lots of L&B books and will happily list the best
        of them so you can go to your local library and, in reet Yorkshire fashion,
        borrow the right book at very little cost to help you refinish the
        models!!!!

        Adrian

        --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Sharp" <robertfairlie@...> wrote:
        >
        > I've just bought a couple of partly made vans on e-bay. The description
        said
        > scratch built, but I've stripped the paint and they are resin castings.
        One
        > had a single diagonal bracing on the outer panel on each side; that's
        part
        > of the casting. The other had some cross bracing on all the panels on
        one
        > side, nothing on the other side, but this bracing, which seems to be
        > plasticard has come away as I've brushed away the paint (after caustic
        soda
        > soak).
        >
        >
        >
        > What I know about the L & B, assuming that's what they are, wouldn't
        fill a
        > pin head if you wrote it out in a felt tip pen. My only reasons to think
        > they are L & B is the length and that they were painted a Southernish
        van
        > brown.
        >
        >
        >
        > There are some unassembled white metal trucks which the vendor thought
        > belonged. These are some sort of diamond frame, but not the ABS
        Wrightlines
        > type, so may be right for the job.
        >
        >
        >
        > Does any one know the origin of these resin castings. They are a good
        > standard, if rather thick, and the top surface has been left to the air,
        not
        > levelled with a plate as Phil does.
        >
        >
        >
        > Can anyone suggest a source of photos or drawings, I'm reluctant to
        spend on
        > a book on the L&B, as, though I'd like to finish these off properly, it
        > isn't a company I'm every likely to model.
        >
        >
        >
        > Frank
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >




        No virus found in this outgoing message.
        Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
        Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.131/2608 - Release Date: 01/08/10
        19:35:00


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Mike Bellamy
        Thanks to both Phil and Paul for their additional comments in response to my original reply - as usual I was heading in the right direction and nearly got the
        Message 3 of 12 , Jan 10, 2010
          Thanks to both Phil and Paul for their additional comments in response to my original reply - as usual I was heading in the right direction and nearly got the right answer!!

          Tony's link also give a lot of information and although I found a drawing for the bogie Brake (no23), I didn't see one for the goods van - although there are some photos of models in the gallery.

          Mike


          From Paul Martin

          I would just add to that the fact that Dave Nicholson bought the range to
          take some inferior models off the market as he brought out his own L&B
          models range with no intention of reusing those moulds.

          From Phil Traxson
          Bill Ferguson cast in the creamy resin as well, as a matter of fact he was
          the person who gave me the address of my supplier for the resin I use, at
          one of the conventions at Nottingham.

          Paul Martins comments in the later posting are quite right, Bill's castings
          could be quite good but his patternmaking 15 + years ago was not brilliant.



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Phil Traxson
          The drawing for the bogie goods van is in my (very)old copy of Narrow Lines Extra No. 2 English Narrow Gauge Railways page 20. Phil T. ... From:
          Message 4 of 12 , Jan 10, 2010
            The drawing for the bogie goods van is in my (very)old copy of Narrow Lines
            Extra No. 2 "English Narrow Gauge Railways" page 20.

            Phil T.

            -----Original Message-----
            From: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com [mailto:7mmnga@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
            Mike Bellamy
            Sent: 10 January 2010 11:04
            To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [7mm NGA] Re: L & B vans, I think



            Thanks to both Phil and Paul for their additional comments in response to
            my original reply - as usual I was heading in the right direction and nearly
            got the right answer!!

            Tony's link also give a lot of information and although I found a drawing
            for the bogie Brake (no23), I didn't see one for the goods van - although
            there are some photos of models in the gallery.

            Mike

            From Paul Martin

            I would just add to that the fact that Dave Nicholson bought the range to
            take some inferior models off the market as he brought out his own L&B
            models range with no intention of reusing those moulds.

            From Phil Traxson
            Bill Ferguson cast in the creamy resin as well, as a matter of fact he was
            the person who gave me the address of my supplier for the resin I use, at
            one of the conventions at Nottingham.

            Paul Martins comments in the later posting are quite right, Bill's
            castings
            could be quite good but his patternmaking 15 + years ago was not
            brilliant.

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




            No virus found in this outgoing message.
            Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
            Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.132/2611 - Release Date: 01/10/10
            07:35:00


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • bill2475dw
            Hi there Phil and Frank, Yes indeed the L&B bogie van, brakevan and all the coaches were covered by me as Narrow gauge models . The idea behind these was to
            Message 5 of 12 , Jan 10, 2010
              Hi there Phil and Frank,
              Yes indeed the L&B bogie van, brakevan and all the coaches were covered by me as "Narrow gauge models".
              The idea behind these was to take the hard work out of making the sides and ends therefore, having matching stock just like the 1/1 model.
              The best drawings i found where the Skinley drawings which are still available.
              Sorry Phil there is nothing wrong with yours.
              Cheers
              Bill Fegruson.
              --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "Phil Traxson" <phil@...> wrote:
              >
              > Bill Ferguson cast in the creamy resin as well, as a matter of fact he was
              > the person who gave me the address of my supplier for the resin I use, at
              > one of the conventions at Nottingham.
              >
              > Paul Martins comments in the later posting are quite right, Bill's castings
              > could be quite good but his patternmaking 15 + years ago was not brilliant.
              >
              > Phil T.
              >
              >
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com [mailto:7mmnga@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
              > adriangrayfr
              > Sent: 09 January 2010 23:29
              > To: 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [7mm NGA] Re: L & B vans, I think
              >
              >
              >
              > Frank,
              >
              > Only by inference, your mention of the w/m bogies, can one gather that
              > these are bogie vehicles!! As that appears the case you are probably correct
              > in your assumption about their prototype.
              >
              > I can also make some guesses about their origin.
              >
              > Is the resin creamy, in the style of a Port Wynnstay casting, or is it
              > translucent.
              > If the latter I'm fairly certain that these will be castings from Bill
              > Ferguson who made a number of L&B kits some years ago.
              > If the former my instinct would be to say "L&B Models". But, I don;t think
              > they got round to the bogie vans and their castings were of universally high
              > quality, which doesn't match your description.
              >
              > I confess that I've got lots of L&B books and will happily list the best
              > of them so you can go to your local library and, in reet Yorkshire fashion,
              > borrow the right book at very little cost to help you refinish the
              > models!!!!
              >
              > Adrian
              >
              > --- In 7mmnga@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Sharp" <robertfairlie@> wrote:
              > >
              > > I've just bought a couple of partly made vans on e-bay. The description
              > said
              > > scratch built, but I've stripped the paint and they are resin castings.
              > One
              > > had a single diagonal bracing on the outer panel on each side; that's
              > part
              > > of the casting. The other had some cross bracing on all the panels on
              > one
              > > side, nothing on the other side, but this bracing, which seems to be
              > > plasticard has come away as I've brushed away the paint (after caustic
              > soda
              > > soak).
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > What I know about the L & B, assuming that's what they are, wouldn't
              > fill a
              > > pin head if you wrote it out in a felt tip pen. My only reasons to think
              > > they are L & B is the length and that they were painted a Southernish
              > van
              > > brown.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > There are some unassembled white metal trucks which the vendor thought
              > > belonged. These are some sort of diamond frame, but not the ABS
              > Wrightlines
              > > type, so may be right for the job.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Does any one know the origin of these resin castings. They are a good
              > > standard, if rather thick, and the top surface has been left to the air,
              > not
              > > levelled with a plate as Phil does.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Can anyone suggest a source of photos or drawings, I'm reluctant to
              > spend on
              > > a book on the L&B, as, though I'd like to finish these off properly, it
              > > isn't a company I'm every likely to model.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Frank
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > No virus found in this outgoing message.
              > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
              > Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.131/2608 - Release Date: 01/08/10
              > 19:35:00
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Frank Sharp
              Bill, Mike, Tony, Paul and all There are two vans, one as cast with no bracing anywhere, though the previous owner had started to add diagonal cross bracing on
              Message 6 of 12 , Jan 10, 2010
                Bill, Mike, Tony, Paul and all



                There are two vans, one as cast with no bracing anywhere, though the
                previous owner had started to add diagonal cross bracing on one side. This
                hasn't survived stripping the paint, and I think it was just plasticard
                microstrip applied with MEK which as we know doesn't bond to the resin. The
                two sides appear to be identical, except that one is a fraction longer than
                the other which knocks the van out of square. Now I've done a bit of this
                resin casting myself, and I found that if I did four in a day, where the
                last one was left overnight it was a different size to the ones I pulled
                after an hour or so. Fortunately I twigged this soon enough to keep the
                overnight ones separate, and though the wagons are shorter by a fraction,
                you'd never tell and they are square.



                Now the second van is the one with the single diagonal on the end panel.
                That is part of the moulding but the protruding angle had been broken off in
                a couple of places. I've turned up a photo of one of these vans, fortunately
                taken in good sunlight, and from the shadow it is obvious that this diagonal
                angle iron wasn't on the planking, but on the timber bracing, so there's
                daylight between the bracing and the planking, with a couple of bolts going
                through the gap. So the solution is clear, and I'm paring off the moulded
                bracing and I'll replace it with brass angle as it ought to be.



                If Mike's wondering where this sudden knowledge comes from, it suddenly
                occurred that I'd bought a second hand book on the L & B. It is the
                Catchpole book, Oakwood Press, 1935. There is a good picture of an angle
                iron braced van, and of two and the coaches lined up for the disposal sale.
                Sufficient to say that what you'll pay now for one 7mm loco kit would have
                bought the 4 locos a spare boiler and all the rolling stock!



                Assuming the weather is reasonable, I'll come down to Mickleover, so I'd be
                grateful for a look at any pictures you might have Mike, and it looks as if
                I'll have to treat myself to the relevant drawing book to sort out an
                underframe. The one I haven't a photo of is the van with the timber cross
                bracing, however there is a good model in 16mm I think, certainly garden
                railway, either on the site one of you recommended or a link off it.



                I've modelled virtually all today and most of yesterday and my eyes are like
                saucers, I usually do a few hours at a time.



                Frank







                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Tony Spencer
                Being one of the tribe who have been Lynton & Barnstaple followers for a lifetime, I have to advise those of you who are looking for modelling perfection to
                Message 7 of 12 , Jan 10, 2010
                  Being one of the tribe who have been Lynton & Barnstaple followers for a
                  lifetime, I have to advise those of you who are looking for modelling
                  perfection to treat the Skinley drawings, those drawn by Tustin in the Model
                  Railway Constructor and reproduced in the Brown Prideaux and Radcliffe L&B
                  books and other publication with some caution. Few have been measured from
                  the actual vehicle. The followers of the L&B Yahoo site spend many hours
                  discussing the discrepancies that are regularly discovered. A classic is
                  that it has been confirmed that one of the original bogie vans was one and a
                  half inches wider at one end than the other.



                  The acceptable degree for accuracy must be in the hands of each model maker.
                  What really matters is the pleasure you get from the efforts you take. If it
                  looks good to me then I'll happily accept it may not be perfect. I always
                  smile when I see an "exhibition standard" painted model locomotive in any
                  scale when comparing it to the buckled and dented metals of the glorious
                  full sized original, even when newly liveried.



                  Lynton_and_Barnstaple_modeling@yahoogroups.com



                  http://www.009.cd2.com/modelling%20landb.htm



                  Tony S.







                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.