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Confused newbie

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  • hosinsky
    I recently bought a band saw locally of a type which perhaps is not sold in the US but which is frequent on European eBay. The motor is specified as 1500 W and
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 1, 2011
      I recently bought a band saw locally of a type which perhaps is not sold in the US but which is frequent on European eBay. The motor is specified as 1500 W and it has an electronic speed-control in the handle. A photo can be seen here:
      http://www.ebay.de/itm/Metall-Bandsage-mobil-Bernardo-EBS-100-B-/370538502038?pt=Industriemaschinen&hash=item5645d0d796

      I am confused on two issues:

      The cutting speed recommendations for the saw are 50-70 m/min (160-230 fpm) for steel but for Aluminum they recommend 40-60 m/min, that is slower than for steel. I thought, that normally the cutting speed for AL should be a lot higher than for steel.

      The second issue is a big sign on the saw saying that "it is absolutely forbidden to lubricate the blade"
      I thought that using cutting fluid is the rule.

      If someone could clear up these points I would be grateful.

      Goran
      Canary Islands
    • Walt - WB2VSJ
      The blade lubrication thing may be an environmental one. I Google d around a bit and saw a note by Bernardo, the manufacturer, that said Environmentally
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 1, 2011

        The blade lubrication thing may be an environmental one.  I Google’d around a bit and saw a note by Bernardo, the manufacturer, that said “Environmentally Friendly – no lubricant needed”

         

        When I lived over in Germany (very close to the Austrian border -  where that  saw is made) the people there were fanatical about that type of stuff.  All the car washes recycled their water.  I could not wash my car in my drive way as the run off would pollute the ground/water.

         

        Since this saw does not have a tub or tray to catch liquid coolant that is probably what they are saying (Just a guess though!)

         

        A stick-wax type lubricant would be one choice.  Or you could build a pan around it to use liquid coolant/lubricant.    However, that motor is kind of close to the blade. I may not want to use a liquid coolant.

         

        Walt

         

        PS – 10M is opening up again., Maybe I’ll work you there J

        WB2VSJ

         

        From: 4x6bandsaw@yahoogroups.com [mailto:4x6bandsaw@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of hosinsky
        Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 6:09 AM
        To: 4x6bandsaw@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [4x6bandsaw] Confused newbie

         

         


        I recently bought a band saw locally of a type which perhaps is not sold in the US but which is frequent on European eBay. The motor is specified as 1500 W and it has an electronic speed-control in the handle. A photo can be seen here:
        http://www.ebay.de/itm/Metall-Bandsage-mobil-Bernardo-EBS-100-B-/370538502038?pt=Industriemaschinen&hash=item5645d0d796

        I am confused on two issues:

        The cutting speed recommendations for the saw are 50-70 m/min (160-230 fpm) for steel but for Aluminum they recommend 40-60 m/min, that is slower than for steel. I thought, that normally the cutting speed for AL should be a lot higher than for steel.

        The second issue is a big sign on the saw saying that "it is absolutely forbidden to lubricate the blade"
        I thought that using cutting fluid is the rule.

        If someone could clear up these points I would be grateful.

        Goran

      • Goran Hosinsky
        Thanks for you comments! The sticky-wax type, any link to what you mean? Goran
        Message 3 of 7 , Oct 1, 2011
          Thanks for you comments! The sticky-wax type, any link to what you mean?
          Goran

          On 2011-10-01 12:59, Walt - WB2VSJ wrote:

          The blade lubrication thing may be an environmental one.  I Google’d around a bit and saw a note by Bernardo, the manufacturer, that said “Environmentally Friendly – no lubricant needed”

           

          When I lived over in Germany (very close to the Austrian border -  where that  saw is made) the people there were fanatical about that type of stuff.  All the car washes recycled their water.  I could not wash my car in my drive way as the run off would pollute the ground/water.

           

          Since this saw does not have a tub or tray to catch liquid coolant that is probably what they are saying (Just a guess though!)

           

          A stick-wax type lubricant would be one choice.  Or you could build a pan around it to use liquid coolant/lubricant.    However, that motor is kind of close to the blade. I may not want to use a liquid coolant.

           

          Walt

           

          PS – 10M is opening up again., Maybe I’ll work you there J

          WB2VSJ

           

          From: 4x6bandsaw@yahoogroups.com [mailto:4x6bandsaw@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of hosinsky
          Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 6:09 AM
          To: 4x6bandsaw@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [4x6bandsaw] Confused newbie

           

           


          I recently bought a band saw locally of a type which perhaps is not sold in the US but which is frequent on European eBay. The motor is specified as 1500 W and it has an electronic speed-control in the handle. A photo can be seen here:
          http://www.ebay.de/itm/Metall-Bandsage-mobil-Bernardo-EBS-100-B-/370538502038?pt=Industriemaschinen&hash=item5645d0d796

          I am confused on two issues:

          The cutting speed recommendations for the saw are 50-70 m/min (160-230 fpm) for steel but for Aluminum they recommend 40-60 m/min, that is slower than for steel. I thought, that normally the cutting speed for AL should be a lot higher than for steel.

          The second issue is a big sign on the saw saying that "it is absolutely forbidden to lubricate the blade"
          I thought that using cutting fluid is the rule.

          If someone could clear up these points I would be grateful.

          Goran

        • Walt - WB2VSJ
          I just bought the Castrol Stick lube. Just started using it so I can say if it is worth it or not just yet. I ll have to see how much of it ends up inside
          Message 4 of 7 , Oct 1, 2011

            I just bought the Castrol Stick lube.  Just started using it so I can say if it is worth it or not just yet.  I’ll have to see how much of it ends up inside the saw J

             

             

            http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=934&PMITEM=505-2034

             

            Walt

             

            From: 4x6bandsaw@yahoogroups.com [mailto:4x6bandsaw@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Goran Hosinsky
            Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 8:23 AM
            To: 4x6bandsaw@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [4x6bandsaw] Confused newbie

             

             

            Thanks for you comments! The sticky-wax type, any link to what you mean?
            Goran

            On 2011-10-01 12:59, Walt - WB2VSJ wrote:

            The blade lubrication thing may be an environmental one.  I Google’d around a bit and saw a note by Bernardo, the manufacturer, that said “Environmentally Friendly – no lubricant needed”

             

            When I lived over in Germany (very close to the Austrian border -  where that  saw is made) the people there were fanatical about that type of stuff.  All the car washes recycled their water.  I could not wash my car in my drive way as the run off would pollute the ground/water.

             

            Since this saw does not have a tub or tray to catch liquid coolant that is probably what they are saying (Just a guess though!)

             

            A stick-wax type lubricant would be one choice.  Or you could build a pan around it to use liquid coolant/lubricant.    However, that motor is kind of close to the blade. I may not want to use a liquid coolant.

             

            Walt

             

            PS – 10M is opening up again., Maybe I’ll work you there J

            WB2VSJ

             

            From: 4x6bandsaw@yahoogroups.com [mailto:4x6bandsaw@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of hosinsky
            Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 6:09 AM
            To: 4x6bandsaw@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [4x6bandsaw] Confused newbie

             

             


            I recently bought a band saw locally of a type which perhaps is not sold in the US but which is frequent on European eBay. The motor is specified as 1500 W and it has an electronic speed-control in the handle. A photo can be seen here:
            http://www.ebay.de/itm/Metall-Bandsage-mobil-Bernardo-EBS-100-B-/370538502038?pt=Industriemaschinen&hash=item5645d0d796

            I am confused on two issues:

            The cutting speed recommendations for the saw are 50-70 m/min (160-230 fpm) for steel but for Aluminum they recommend 40-60 m/min, that is slower than for steel. I thought, that normally the cutting speed for AL should be a lot higher than for steel.

            The second issue is a big sign on the saw saying that "it is absolutely forbidden to lubricate the blade"
            I thought that using cutting fluid is the rule.

            If someone could clear up these points I would be grateful.

            Goran

          • Jerry Durand
            I believe the one you have is a lot like this one http://www.harborfreight.com/portable-variable-speed-bandsaw-47840.html These are intended for low duty use
            Message 5 of 7 , Oct 1, 2011
              I believe the one you have is a lot like this one
              http://www.harborfreight.com/portable-variable-speed-bandsaw-47840.html
              These are intended for low duty use cutting things at a construction
              site. (I see the actor in the pictures has no idea that you hold it at
              45 degrees to cut.)

              The motor looks like a brush type like an electric drill has. It's rare
              to find those now with useful ratings, the Chinese tend to just tell you
              how much power it draws and nothing else. That's like saying "my car is
              really powerful, it gets 15 miles per gallon of petrol" which doesn't
              tell you anything about the power of the car.

              They're probably worried about too much load on that motor and with a
              course blade it can bite deeply into the aluminum where it would make
              shallower cuts in steel. Just a guess.

              No lube since if that's an open motor they don't want liquid getting in
              the electrical part.



              On 10/01/2011 03:08 AM, hosinsky wrote:
              > I recently bought a band saw locally of a type which perhaps is not sold in the US but which is frequent on European eBay. The motor is specified as 1500 W and it has an electronic speed-control in the handle. A photo can be seen here:
              > http://www.ebay.de/itm/Metall-Bandsage-mobil-Bernardo-EBS-100-B-/370538502038?pt=Industriemaschinen&hash=item5645d0d796
              >
              > I am confused on two issues:
              >
              > The cutting speed recommendations for the saw are 50-70 m/min (160-230 fpm) for steel but for Aluminum they recommend 40-60 m/min, that is slower than for steel. I thought, that normally the cutting speed for AL should be a lot higher than for steel.
              >
              > The second issue is a big sign on the saw saying that "it is absolutely forbidden to lubricate the blade"
              > I thought that using cutting fluid is the rule.
              >
              > If someone could clear up these points I would be grateful.
              >
              > Goran
              > Canary Islands
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >

              --
              Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com
              tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886
              Skype: jerrydurand
            • Bob Neidorff
              Goran, I use candle wax, jar-sealing wax, or parafin wax for my saw. It just depends on what is available. It may matter in a production shop, but for a home
              Message 6 of 7 , Oct 1, 2011
                Goran,

                I use candle wax, jar-sealing wax, or parafin wax for my saw. It just
                depends on what is available. It may matter in a production shop, but
                for a home shop, any lubricant is a help, and wax is nice because it
                stays solid until there is heat, and then it flows enough to lubricate.

                You're right. The general policy is to cut aluminum faster than steel,
                but take larger cuts with steel and light cuts with aluminum.

                But aluminum has an issue. At the microscopic point of cut, intense heat
                will cause aluminum to melt and stick to the steel blade as it cools.
                One way around this is to cut slower so that you don't get to the point
                that aluminum melts. But this leads to higher friction and slower
                cutting. Another way is to use lube, like wax. That keeps the aluminum
                cooler and also forms a barrier between the aluminum chips and the steel
                blade.

                So if you use wax, use a high speed to cut aluminum.

                FYI, I've cut 1/2" aluminum plate with my table saw running a 10"
                carbide tipped blade at 4300 RPM, with wax lubrication. It really sprays
                hot aluminum chips but works fine.

                Bob Neidorff

                ...The sticky-wax type, any link to what you mean?
                Goran

                ...The cutting speed recommendations for the saw are 50-70 m/min (160-230
                fpm) for steel but for Aluminum they recommend 40-60 m/min, that is
                slower than for steel. I thought, that normally the cutting speed for
                AL should be a lot higher than for steel...
                Goran
              • Goran Hosinsky
                OK. I will be going to the Midlands model engineering exhibition, UK, this month and I hope to be able to find something suitable there. Goran
                Message 7 of 7 , Oct 1, 2011
                  OK. I will be going to the Midlands model engineering exhibition, UK, this month and I hope to be able to find something suitable there.
                  Goran

                  On 2011-10-01 13:49, Walt - WB2VSJ wrote:

                  I just bought the Castrol Stick lube.  Just started using it so I can say if it is worth it or not just yet.  I’ll have to see how much of it ends up inside the saw J

                   

                   

                  http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=934&PMITEM=505-2034

                   

                  Walt

                   

                  From: 4x6bandsaw@yahoogroups.com [mailto:4x6bandsaw@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Goran Hosinsky
                  Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 8:23 AM
                  To: 4x6bandsaw@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [4x6bandsaw] Confused newbie

                   

                   

                  Thanks for you comments! The sticky-wax type, any link to what you mean?
                  Goran

                  On 2011-10-01 12:59, Walt - WB2VSJ wrote:

                  The blade lubrication thing may be an environmental one.  I Google’d around a bit and saw a note by Bernardo, the manufacturer, that said “Environmentally Friendly – no lubricant needed”

                   

                  When I lived over in Germany (very close to the Austrian border -  where that  saw is made) the people there were fanatical about that type of stuff.  All the car washes recycled their water.  I could not wash my car in my drive way as the run off would pollute the ground/water.

                   

                  Since this saw does not have a tub or tray to catch liquid coolant that is probably what they are saying (Just a guess though!)

                   

                  A stick-wax type lubricant would be one choice.  Or you could build a pan around it to use liquid coolant/lubricant.    However, that motor is kind of close to the blade. I may not want to use a liquid coolant.

                   

                  Walt

                   

                  PS – 10M is opening up again., Maybe I’ll work you there J

                  WB2VSJ

                   

                  From: 4x6bandsaw@yahoogroups.com [mailto:4x6bandsaw@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of hosinsky
                  Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2011 6:09 AM
                  To: 4x6bandsaw@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [4x6bandsaw] Confused newbie

                   

                   


                  I recently bought a band saw locally of a type which perhaps is not sold in the US but which is frequent on European eBay. The motor is specified as 1500 W and it has an electronic speed-control in the handle. A photo can be seen here:
                  http://www.ebay.de/itm/Metall-Bandsage-mobil-Bernardo-EBS-100-B-/370538502038?pt=Industriemaschinen&hash=item5645d0d796

                  I am confused on two issues:

                  The cutting speed recommendations for the saw are 50-70 m/min (160-230 fpm) for steel but for Aluminum they recommend 40-60 m/min, that is slower than for steel. I thought, that normally the cutting speed for AL should be a lot higher than for steel.

                  The second issue is a big sign on the saw saying that "it is absolutely forbidden to lubricate the blade"
                  I thought that using cutting fluid is the rule.

                  If someone could clear up these points I would be grateful.

                  Goran

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