Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [40Whacks] (unknown)

Expand Messages
  • Muriel Arnold
    Hi Jay: Not too many libraries have copies of my book. I have quite a number on hand. The only other places you can get a copy is at the Fall River
    Message 1 of 17 , May 21, 2002
      Hi Jay:
      Not too many libraries have copies of my book.  I have quite a number on hand.  The only other places you can get a copy is at the Fall River Historical Society or the Lizzie Borden Bed and Breakfast.  I will autograph those I sell.  If interested, contact me at muriela@... and I will let you know the rest.
      Muriel Arnold
       
      Author of  Lizzie Borden Hands of Time
      For more information
      muriela@...
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 6:31 PM
      Subject: Re: [40Whacks] (unknown)

      Thanks, Muriel.  Very interesting.
       
      Now tell me, your passion is contagious!  I like how strongly you feel about the fact that Lizzie is innocent.  At the bottom of your messages is a bit about you are the author of Lizzie Borden, Hands of Time.  Where is this available to read your theories?
       
      thanks,
      Jay
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 1:17 PM
      Subject: Re: [40Whacks] (unknown)

      Hey Jay:
      Never a word was written during 1892-1893 about Lizzie being epileptic.  Knowlton wanted her tested for insanity but Jennings refused.  Knowlton sent a State Detective and he returned with his reporting saying he found no insanity in the Borden family but that the Morses' were weird.
      I loved the way Victoria Lincoln disposed of the epileptic theory.  Seems her cure for epilepsy is to kill your parents!!!  Get real.  Mrs. Whitehead did not like Emma or Lizzie.  Do you think for one moment that she would not have blabbed out this information?
      Muriel Arnold
       
      Author of  Lizzie Borden Hands of Time
      For more information
      muriela@...
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 5:48 AM
      Subject: Re: [40Whacks] (unknown)

      I enjoyed Private Disgrace, genteely written, I thought.  And it did give me much food for thought, as I think she puts forth an interesting theory.
       
      I sympathize totally with the sinus thing, especially this time of year with allergies.  Yuch!
       
      Jay
       
      i got sick,i went over the group's old postings,and came away with
      some good leads on some books i then ordered from the library.With
      any luck, they should arrive some time this week.I'm particularly
      looking forward to ''A Private DISGRACE'',by Victoria Lincoln,and
      Lizzie Borden by Edward Radin.

      Thanks, Mark



      ---WHODUNIT???---

      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


      ---WHODUNIT???---

      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


      ---WHODUNIT???---

      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
    • Muriel Arnold
      Mark: I really don t know how far Marion is away from Fall River, as I don t remember ever having gone there. Oops, just looked at the map. It is about 10
      Message 2 of 17 , May 25, 2002
        Mark:
        I really don't know how far Marion is away from Fall River, as I don't
        remember ever having gone there. Oops, just looked at the map. It is about
        10 miles from Fairhaven on 195, so I'd say it is 25 to 30 miles from Fall
        River.
        As for Lizzie being given drugs, it would not have affected her at the
        inquest because Bowen would have given her the drugs after she came back.
        Three druggists told me the effect would not have lasted more than 12 hours.
        The drug would have worn off by then. On the other hand, it might have had
        some effect, as being suspect, she was bound to have been nervous every time
        they came for her for questioning.
        Dear Knowlton had had the audacity to claim she was called only to learn
        what she knew about the murders, the same as everyone else. Bull. It
        wasn't an inquest, it was an inquisition.
        Muriel Arnold

        Author of Lizzie Borden Hands of Time
        For more information
        muriela@...
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: kahclok2000 <mdhiggins86@...>
        To: <40Whacks@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2002 10:37 AM
        Subject: [40Whacks] (unknown)


        > Hello everyone
        >
        > Lizzie testified that she had intended to travel to Marion, to
        > fish.How far away from Fall River is this?Also,Lizzie was supposedly
        > given drugs during the proceedings,wouldn't this affect her ability
        > to testify lucidly about her whereabouts during the murders?
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Thanks, Mark
        >
        >
        >
        > ---WHODUNIT???---
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
      • Muriel Arnold
        Hi Mark: The incest theory was used as a reason why she killed her father, but to me, Andrew Borden had the sex drive of a three day old dead mackerel. He
        Message 3 of 17 , May 25, 2002
          Hi Mark:
          The incest theory was used as a reason why she killed her father, but to me,
          Andrew Borden had the sex drive of a three day old dead mackerel. He lived
          only for the making of money.
          It'd been months since he'd gotten rid of his horse and had no intention of
          buying another, yet the hay remained in the barn, waiting for someone to pay
          full price for it.

          Mark, where did you hear about Andrew Borden being a necrophiliac? That is
          a new one on me. And I thought the nightie one was far-fetched!!
          Let's face it, people die and that entailed funeral expenses. Some had it
          that he overcharged for caskets and got the heirs to sell him the decease's
          property as cheap as possible so he could resell it for double his
          investment.

          No, Mark, I do not believe Andrew was a necrophiliac. The accumulation of
          money ruled his life. Take:
          The city needed the property he owned on Plymouth Avenue for a fire station.
          Andrew sold it to them for $30,000!!!
          On August 2nd, 1892, he and Abby were sick that night, yet he attended a
          meeting to see about some organization putting up a building on land he
          owned. The building had to cost at least $65,000, rent of the land to be 3%
          per year, but at the end of 25 years, the land and building would belong to
          him!. They turned him down and the meeting broke up.

          To my knowledge, Andrew Borden did only two unselfish things in his life.
          l. Buying half of the 4th St. house and deeding it to Abby, so when he
          died, she'd have a roof over her head.
          2. When his father died, he paid his sister $3,000 for her share of his
          father's house. As his stepmother had to sell to repay a loan at the bank,
          he also gave her $3,000. You can't count his giving the house to Emma and
          Lizzie as an unselfish act, as they would have inherited it anyway.
          3. Maybe. When he paid Emma and Lizzie $5,000 when he bought it back a few
          months before he was killed. Either they were tired of it or, most likely,
          he had found where he could sell it at quite a profit.
          Have a nice day Mark. End of book.
          Muriel Arnold

          Author of Lizzie Borden Hands of Time
          For more information
          muriela@...
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: kahclok2000 <mdhiggins86@...>
          To: <40Whacks@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2002 11:09 PM
          Subject: [40Whacks] (unknown)


          > Hello everyone
          >
          > In Legend of Lizzie Borden its suggested that there was incest
          > occuring between Lizzzie and Andrew.Was this true,or just speculation?
          > Also, was there any evidence that Andrew was a necrophiliac?
          >
          >
          > Thanks Again,Mark
          >
          >
          >
          > ---WHODUNIT???---
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
        • Muriel Arnold
          Muriel Arnold Author of Lizzie Borden Hands of Time For more information muriela@cox-internet.com ... From: kahclok2000 To:
          Message 4 of 17 , May 26, 2002
            Muriel Arnold

            Author of Lizzie Borden Hands of Time
            For more information
            muriela@...
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: kahclok2000 <mdhiggins86@...>
            To: <40Whacks@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2002 10:17 AM
            Subject: [40Whacks] (unknown)


            > Muriel
            >
            > Thanks for your input regarding my last message, it was both
            > informative and hilarious. You asked where I heard about Andrew's
            > alleged necrophilia. In the movie The Legend of Lizzie Borden there
            > was a scene in which Andrew is preparing a body, during which he
            > proceeds to fondle the corpse. Also, could you please tell me more
            > about this "nightie" business, i've never heard that story before. I
            > read somewhere that Andrew would cut the feet off the corpses so they
            > would fit into undersized coffins, do you or anyone else know if this
            > is true?
            >
            > Thanks,
            >
            > Mark
            >
            >
            >
            > ---WHODUNIT???---
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
          • Muriel Arnold
            Mark: Old man Borden cared as much for the dead as he did for the living. Preparing corpses for burial was purely business, nothing else, and yes, I also read
            Message 5 of 17 , May 26, 2002
              Mark:
              Old man Borden cared as much for the dead as he did for the living.
              Preparing corpses for burial was purely business, nothing else, and yes, I
              also read that article, and two versions about Lizzie killing Mrs. Borden's
              cat. Bet she never had one.
              Makes me wonder though if Andrew ever thought of what could be done with the
              blood he extracted from the bodies. (Make blood pudding?) Oh well, I'll
              wait for someone to come up with that one.
              The next thing that we can expect some author to introduce into the Borden
              case, is claiming Andrew Borden was homosexual, Lizzie found out and that
              was her motive for killing him.
              Back in the 1980's, my sister in Florida and I would go home twice a year
              to mama's. While there, we would go and xerox all the articles we could
              find on the Borden case from half a dozen newspapers. We'd spend the nights
              reading them. Some of the articles were hilarious.
              Credit for most of these "pulp" articles goes to Edwin McHenry, the
              so-called Private Investigator. The last of these I'd come across was in
              late December 1892, when Bridget supposedly testified that a burned piece of
              clothing, found in the ashes, came from the dress Lizzie wore the morning of
              the murders. Fearing arrest, McHenry had high-tailed it to New York in
              early December.
              Sorry if I didn't answer all your questions because I forgot to copy what
              you'd written before answering. Maybe next time.
              Muriel
              Muriel Arnold

              Author of Lizzie Borden Hands of Time
              For more information
              muriela@...
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: kahclok2000 <mdhiggins86@...>
              To: <40Whacks@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2002 10:17 AM
              Subject: [40Whacks] (unknown)


              > Muriel
              >
              > Thanks for your input regarding my last message, it was both
              > informative and hilarious. You asked where I heard about Andrew's
              > alleged necrophilia. In the movie The Legend of Lizzie Borden there
              > was a scene in which Andrew is preparing a body, during which he
              > proceeds to fondle the corpse. Also, could you please tell me more
              > about this "nightie" business, i've never heard that story before. I
              > read somewhere that Andrew would cut the feet off the corpses so they
              > would fit into undersized coffins, do you or anyone else know if this
              > is true?
              >
              > Thanks,
              >
              > Mark
              >
              >
              >
              > ---WHODUNIT???---
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
            • Muriel Arnold
              Hi Mark: Read both some time back. Didn t like Engstrom s version one bit. Don t remember Dance of Death hardly. But, Engstrom s was one that came out like,
              Message 6 of 17 , May 30, 2002
                Hi Mark:
                Read both some time back. Didn't like Engstrom's version one bit. Don't
                remember Dance of Death hardly. But, Engstrom's was one that came out like,
                "Read it and forget it." I couldn't wait to get to the end of that book.
                The book I'm wanting to read (must have read about 20 books on this case) is
                someone coming out with Andrew Borden being homosexual. Can't wait to learn
                who his paramour will be.
                Andrew Borden had three daughters: Emma in 1851; Alice in 1856, and Lizzie
                in 1860, so those pregnancies were planned. After Lizzie, he called it
                quits. Why didn't he teach Lizzie to take over? Lizzie wasn't overly
                bright, but she could have learned.
                Muriel Arnold

                Author of Lizzie Borden Hands of Time
                For more information
                muriela@...
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: kahclok2000 <mdhiggins86@...>
                To: <40Whacks@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 8:10 PM
                Subject: [40Whacks] (unknown)


                > Hello everyone
                > I've just finished reading Lizzie Borden, by Elizabeth Engstrom, and
                > thought it was a very interesting read. has anyone else in the group
                > read this book? If so, what is your opinion of it? I would really
                > like to know!! I also received another book this afternoon, called
                > Lizzie Borden;A Dance of Death, by Agnes Demille.
                >
                >
                > Thanks, Mark
                >
                >
                >
                > ---WHODUNIT???---
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
              • Siri
                I also read Engstrom s book and I agree with Muriel, in fact I think I disliked it more than any other book I have read on Lizzie. I found it good reading at
                Message 7 of 17 , May 30, 2002
                  I also read Engstrom's book and I agree with Muriel,
                  in fact I think I disliked it more than any other book
                  I have read on Lizzie. I found it good reading at
                  first but toward the end I couldn't wait to get
                  through with it, it seemed to go on and on.

                  I have also read "Dance of Death" and liked it much
                  better than Engstrom's book. Agnes DeMille put in some
                  interesting little tidbits that I hadn't read anywhere
                  else.

                  Siri





                  --- Muriel Arnold <muriela@...> wrote:
                  > Hi Mark:
                  > Read both some time back. Didn't like Engstrom's
                  > version one bit. Don't
                  > remember Dance of Death hardly. But, Engstrom's was
                  > one that came out like,
                  > "Read it and forget it." I couldn't wait to get to
                  > the end of that book.
                  > The book I'm wanting to read (must have read about
                  > 20 books on this case) is
                  > someone coming out with Andrew Borden being
                  > homosexual. Can't wait to learn
                  > who his paramour will be.
                  > Andrew Borden had three daughters: Emma in 1851;
                  > Alice in 1856, and Lizzie
                  > in 1860, so those pregnancies were planned. After
                  > Lizzie, he called it
                  > quits. Why didn't he teach Lizzie to take over?
                  > Lizzie wasn't overly
                  > bright, but she could have learned.
                  > Muriel Arnold
                  >
                  > Author of Lizzie Borden Hands of Time
                  > For more information
                  > muriela@...
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: kahclok2000 <mdhiggins86@...>
                  > To: <40Whacks@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 8:10 PM
                  > Subject: [40Whacks] (unknown)
                  >
                  >
                  > > Hello everyone
                  > > I've just finished reading Lizzie Borden, by
                  > Elizabeth Engstrom, and
                  > > thought it was a very interesting read. has anyone
                  > else in the group
                  > > read this book? If so, what is your opinion of it?
                  > I would really
                  > > like to know!! I also received another book this
                  > afternoon, called
                  > > Lizzie Borden;A Dance of Death, by Agnes Demille.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Thanks, Mark
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ---WHODUNIT???---
                  > >
                  > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                  >
                  > ---WHODUNIT???---
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >


                  __________________________________________________
                  Do You Yahoo!?
                  Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
                  http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
                • WestList@AOL.com
                  In a message dated 5/30/2002 10:01:12 PM Central Standard Time, ... What happened to Alice? I ve read quite a bit on the Borden case, although it s been
                  Message 8 of 17 , May 31, 2002
                    In a message dated 5/30/2002 10:01:12 PM Central Standard Time, muriela@... writes:


                    Andrew Borden had three daughters:  Emma in 1851; Alice in 1856, and Lizzie
                    in 1860, so those pregnancies were planned.


                    What happened to Alice?  I've read quite a bit on the Borden case, although
                    it's been awhile, and at my age, one tends to forget details <g>. 

                    Thanks!
                  • RevCOAL
                    Alice died in infancy... June ... From: WestList@AOL.com To: 40Whacks@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [40Whacks] (unknown) In a message dated 5/30/2002 10:01:12
                    Message 9 of 17 , May 31, 2002
                      Alice died in infancy...
                       
                       
                      June
                       
                      -------Original Message-------
                       
                       
                      From: WestList@...
                      To: 40Whacks@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [40Whacks] (unknown)

                      In a message dated 5/30/2002 10:01:12 PM Central Standard Time, muriela@... writes:

                      Andrew Borden had three daughters:  Emma in 1851; Alice in 1856, and Lizzie
                      in 1860, so those pregnancies were planned.

                      What happened to Alice?  I've read quite a bit on the Borden case, although
                      it's been awhile, and at my age, one tends to forget details <g>. 

                      Thanks!
                      __________________________________________
                      Created and best viewed with IncrediMail!
                      Get your free copy at: www.incredimail.com
                    • Muriel Arnold
                      Hi: Alice died in 1858. Don t know the cause of death, but it was probably something going around that killed the old and the young back then. My mother
                      Message 10 of 17 , May 31, 2002
                        Hi:
                        Alice died in 1858.  Don't know the cause of death, but it was probably something going around that killed the old and the young back then.  My mother (born 1899), would have had twin sisters.  One died.  When the relatives returned from the funeral, they found that the other twin had died.  That occurred before my mother was born.
                        Muriel Arnold
                         
                        Author of  Lizzie Borden Hands of Time
                        For more information
                        muriela@...
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 8:00 AM
                        Subject: Re: [40Whacks] (unknown)

                        In a message dated 5/30/2002 10:01:12 PM Central Standard Time, muriela@... writes:


                        Andrew Borden had three daughters:  Emma in 1851; Alice in 1856, and Lizzie
                        in 1860, so those pregnancies were planned.


                        What happened to Alice?  I've read quite a bit on the Borden case, although
                        it's been awhile, and at my age, one tends to forget details <g>. 

                        Thanks!

                        ---WHODUNIT???---

                        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                      • Muriel Arnold
                        Mark: There s no way you could get me to try to find and re-read Engstrom s book. It was the pits. 1. Trip to barn: The cops had been there in June when
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jun 1 7:25 AM
                          Mark:
                          There's no way you could get me to try to find and re-read Engstrom's book.
                          It was the pits.
                          1. Trip to barn: The cops had been there in June when someone stole some
                          of Lizzie's pigeons.
                          2. Emma, Chief instigator? Very unlikely. She catered to Lizzie. As for
                          her being a closet alcoholic? The cops would have found liquor in that
                          closet had there been any. A big fat no on that one.
                          3. Lizzie a multiple personality? If she had it, she sure as hell managed
                          to keep it from everyone. No sign of that either.
                          4. Lesbian? I hardly think that either. Not even with one woman.
                          Many claim Lizzie should have brought hay in on the hem of her dress. What
                          would that have proven? The cops had been all over the barn. They could
                          have brought some in the house on their shoes and Lizzie have the misfortune
                          to get some on hers if she'd walked where they had walked.
                          The amazing thing is her not having blood on her shoes. The cops with their
                          big feet could have gotten some on theirs and her walk where they had walked
                          and picked some up that way. But no blood was found on them.

                          Oh, I found someone who could be used as Andrew Borden's paramour. What
                          about Charles Cook, Borden's insurance agent? He was responsible for
                          collecting rents for Andrew and they spoke nearly every day.
                          Got to go now. Take care.
                          Muriel

                          Muriel Arnold

                          Author of Lizzie Borden Hands of Time
                          For more information
                          muriela@...
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: kahclok2000 <mdhiggins86@...>
                          To: <40Whacks@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 6:35 PM
                          Subject: [40Whacks] (unknown)


                          > Hello everyone;
                          >
                          > One of the things i found really bizarre about Elizabeth Engstrom's
                          > book, was the absolute conviction which events were portrayed,
                          > despite the fact that a lot of it was bogus.For example, the author
                          > claims that Lizzie spent a lot of time in the hayloft in the barn,
                          > where she said she ate her pears, but as everyone knows, the Fall
                          > River police found no evidence of anyone being there in quite some
                          > time. The book however claims otherwise. Also the book paints Emma as
                          > the chief instigator in the murders, and a closet alcoholic!! Lizzie
                          > comes off as a woman with multiple personality disorder, and a
                          > lesbian, in love with two different women, maybe three!! Is there any
                          > substantiated evidence at all, proving she was a lesbian, or is that
                          > also bogus on the part of Elizabeth Engstrom?
                          >
                          >
                          > Thanks again, Mark
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ---WHODUNIT???---
                          >
                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          >
                          >
                        • PatriciaLu@aol.com
                          Hi Patsy -- I think we re all still here. I was ready to comment on the latest Dead Tenants show which I did remember to watch after June s prompting, but it
                          Message 12 of 17 , Nov 14, 2005
                            Hi Patsy -- I think we're all still here. I was ready to comment on the latest "Dead Tenants" show which I did remember to watch after June's prompting, but it was pretty dumb this week. I do think if Ghost Hunters and Dead Tenants could be combined, it would be one great show.
                             
                            Pat
                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.