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Lizzie of course

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  • Muriel Arnold
    Just messing around with my computer which doesn t care very much for me. It is user friendly with everyone else. Been reading some of the messages and
    Message 1 of 7 , Apr 14, 2002
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      Just messing around with my computer which doesn't care very much for me.  It is user friendly with everyone else.
      Been reading some of the messages and disagree with some of them.  I learned, while visiting the Borden house that when the door leading from the sitting room into the parlor was closed and people were talking in both rooms, you cannot hear what the others are saying.
      I found nothing sinister about the Borden house.  I was born and raised in Fall River, before the area changed.  I am now a stranger in my own hometown, as far as that area is concerned and it is fixing to change again, not for the better either.
      Patsy, have you read Edward Radin's book.  He believed Bridget guilty.  He came close to proven it too.  Unfortunately he believed Bridget when she said Lizzie sounded the alarm at 11:10.  He should have taken Lizzie's version.  She sounded the alarm at 11:00.
      Muriel Arnold
       
      Author of  Lizzie Borden Hands of Time
      For more information
      muriela@...
    • Muriel Arnold
      Muriel Arnold Author of Lizzie Borden Hands of Time For more information muriela@cox-internet.com ... From: Muriel Arnold To: 40whacksyahoo Sent: Monday,
      Message 2 of 7 , Apr 15, 2002
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        Muriel Arnold
         
        Author of  Lizzie Borden Hands of Time
        For more information
        muriela@...
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 12:05 AM
        Subject: [40Whacks] Lizzie of course

        Just messing around with my computer which doesn't care very much for me.  It is user friendly with everyone else.
        Been reading some of the messages and disagree with some of them.  I learned, while visiting the Borden house that when the door leading from the sitting room into the parlor was closed and people were talking in both rooms, you cannot hear what the others are saying.
        I found nothing sinister about the Borden house.  I was born and raised in Fall River, before the area changed.  I am now a stranger in my own hometown, as far as that area is concerned and it is fixing to change again, not for the better either.
        Patsy, have you read Edward Radin's book.  He believed Bridget guilty.  He came close to proven it too.  Unfortunately he believed Bridget when she said Lizzie sounded the alarm at 11:10.  He should have taken Lizzie's version.  She sounded the alarm at 11:00.
        Muriel Arnold
         
        Author of  Lizzie Borden Hands of Time
        For more information
        muriela@...


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      • Patsy751@aol.com
        I just received the latest copy of the LB quarterly. I really look forward to these issues! Muriel, I have read Radin s book. As a matter of fact it was the
        Message 3 of 7 , Apr 16, 2002
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          I just received the latest copy of the LB quarterly.  I really look forward to these issues!  Muriel, I have read Radin's book.  As a matter of fact it was the first one LB book I ever read over twenty years ago never knowing what it would lead to.   When I was reading the book in my yard, my neighbor an elderly gentleman, came over, and made the comment that his father had been a photographer for one of the Boston papers, and he covered the case.  Imagine that.  I just made some banal comment.   He had moved by the time I became so fascinated, and I only think of all the questions that I would have asked him.

          I took the Radin book down from my shelf.  I think I'll give it another look because I remember very little about it. 

          Patsy
        • Muriel Arnold
          Patsy: Hope you do read Radin s book again. You will find it is the most accurate and if it wasn t for believing Bridget s saying it was 11:10 when Lizzie
          Message 4 of 7 , Apr 16, 2002
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            Patsy:
            Hope you do read Radin's book again.  You will find it is the most accurate and if it wasn't for believing Bridget's saying it was 11:10 when Lizzie sounded the alarm and read what Lizzie said on the day of the murders, he would definitely have realized he'd solved the case.  He was right:  BRIDGET ALONE WAS GUILTY. 
             
            Hope this computer is user friendly tonight.  Seems I'm always doing something wrong.  At least I try to get through.  I got rid of just about everything I had on Lizzie over a year ago (a suitcase full) and more than half a dozen books.  Would you belieave that over the years, I ended up getting three copies of Victoria Lincoln's book?  Someone would give or send me one; I'd ship it out, and doggone if later, I'd be given another copy.  Maybe I should check and see if there still isn't one at my mother's house.  Makes me feel like flying home just for the hell of it just to find out.
            Muriel Arnold
             
            Author of  Lizzie Borden Hands of Time
            For more information
            muriela@...
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2002 4:02 PM
            Subject: Re: [40Whacks] Lizzie of course

            I just received the latest copy of the LB quarterly.  I really look forward to these issues!  Muriel, I have read Radin's book.  As a matter of fact it was the first one LB book I ever read over twenty years ago never knowing what it would lead to.   When I was reading the book in my yard, my neighbor an elderly gentleman, came over, and made the comment that his father had been a photographer for one of the Boston papers, and he covered the case.  Imagine that.  I just made some banal comment.   He had moved by the time I became so fascinated, and I only think of all the questions that I would have asked him.

            I took the Radin book down from my shelf.  I think I'll give it another look because I remember very little about it. 

            Patsy


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          • Patsy751@aol.com
            In a message dated 04/16/2002 10:53:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ... Dear Muriel, I have started to read Radin s boook again, but before I go any further, I
            Message 5 of 7 , Apr 19, 2002
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              In a message dated 04/16/2002 10:53:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, muriela@... writes:


              Patsy:

              Hope you do read Radin's book again


              Dear Muriel,
              I have started to read Radin's boook again, but before I go any further, I have to ask myself what possible motive Bridget could have?

              Patsy
            • Muriel Arnold
              The Herald News , dated April 16, 2002 A story that will never die Christopher Daley, a history teacher in Pembroke and former president of the Pembroke
              Message 6 of 7 , Jul 30, 2002
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                "The Herald News", dated April 16, 2002
                A story that will never die
                Christopher Daley, a history teacher in Pembroke and former president of the Pembroke Historical Society, was invited by the Fall River Historical Society to speak on the famous unsolved double murder case.
                Okay gang, here's why the story about Lizzie will never die.
                Daley saod Andrew Jackson Borden, worth $150,000 (millions today), was a big cheapo, so much so, that in one of his earlier trades as a casket-maker,  "The story is he cut the legs off the corpses to save money on the caskets he was making."  Fact:
                Andrew Borden sold caskets; he did not make them.
                That Lizzie laughed at Bridget on the stairway as she struggled with the locks trying to let Mr. Borden in.  Daley reminded the audience that Abbie had already been murdered.  Fact:
                There is only Bridget's word for that.  During the inquest, Lizzie did make several attempts to say where she was when her father came home.  1. In the kitchen.
                2.  Upstairs.  3.  Coming downstairs.  4.  Back in the kitchen.  Fact:
                As for coming downstairs, Lizzie said it might have been the day before, when Dr. Bowen stopped by and her father was very rude to him.  Dr. Bowen testified he had gone there the day before and someone was on the stairs.  Conclusion:  It had to have been Lizzie on the stairs.
                 
                Daley then said that Andrew entered and asked Lizzie where was Abbie (his spelling).  Lizzie said her stepmother received a note to visit a school friend.  She brought her father into the sitting room and then told Bridget of a "great sale" on dresses at a downtown store.
                According to one reporter, Lizzie told him she was in the kitchen, the bell rang, Bridget let him in.  Bridget entered the kitchen and told Lizzie her father had forgotten his key and went upstairs to her room.  Lizzie joined her father in the sitting room.  He was looking at some papers.  He said he was feeling no better and no worse than the day before.
                  (The day before, he failed to attend a board of director's meeting at the Massasoit Bank, losing the $10 he would have received had he attended.)  Bridget told reporters that Mr. Borden said he was feeling okay.  She went back to washing the windows in the sitting room.)  Like hell she did.  No matter.
                 
                Daley now said that Lizzie testified she heard a moan.  Fact:
                Lizzie never testified to saying that.  She told Buffinton that she heard a scraping noise as ashe approached the house.  I think Mrs. Churchill might have said that Lizzie mentioned hearing a moan.
                 
                Daley then said Abby was murdered about an hour before Andrew.  (That makes Abby being killed around 10.  I disagree.  No matter.)
                 
                The picnic at Rocky Point, Daley said only one police officer was on duty.
                According to Marshal Hilliard, only half the police force went to Rocky Point.
                 
                Daley said:  After a two-day coroner's inquest, Lizze was found probably guilty and bound over to a grand jury.  Questions:
                1.  What happened to day three of that inquest.
                2.  What happened to the Hearing?
                3.  If it was a coroner's inquest, why was District Attorney and Judge Blaisdell running the show?
                4.  Why weren't physicians called to testify as to their findings?
                 
                Daley also spoke about Lizzie's assistant defense cousel  (ex-Governor Robinson).  He said Lizzie had "deep pockets".
                 
                Then Daley went one better.
                The prosecution, at her trial, failed to get Lizzie's conflicting stories before the grand jury into the record at her trial.  The grand jury testimony was ruled inadmissible because she had not been represented by any attorney.  (Try that one on for size.)
                 
                Daley mentioned how sthe skulls of the two victims were presented at the trial.  The police had the heads removed from the corpses and the flesh "boiled off the skulls" before entering them into evidence.  Fact:  Dr. Dolan, Medical Examiner, stopped the bodies from being buried on Saturday for further autopsies.  Don't know whose idea it was ro remove the heads, Knowlton or Dolan.  Most likely Dolan talked to Knowlton and it could have been Knowlton's, as removing the heads of victims was not something that was usually done.
                 
                Daley gave as the possible killer was:  Lizzie, Emma, Bridget alone or with Lizzie, Uncle John Morse, or someone hired to do it.  He did not think Lizzie phisically did it, but maybe she knew who did but kept quiet.  He found Morse's alibi most intriguing.  He asked how many people, getting on a subway, would notice the driver's badge number?
                Well gang, I hope Daley's speech helped clear up the case.  For me, it's just another "here we go again".
                 
                Back in January 2001, they held a seance at the Borden house with plans on holding others at different restaurants once the kinks were all out.  They claimed the seance puts a new spin to the mystery and acutally comes one step closer to solving it.  They expect to explain why no blood was found on Lizzie.  That it would be a few years before they were ready.
                 
                The actress is to play the part of Bridget's granddaughter where she tells stories of Bridget's past and helps the audience feel what the made must have gone through following the murders.  That it was a witch hunt for her grandmother; tells her daughter (didn't know she had any) stories of the Borden household.
                 
                During this future seance, the audience will see a replica of Andrew's skull, and once the candle is extinguished, see a bloody hand print appearing on what was an unstained letter from Lizzie to Bridget, and an ax appearing by the skull.  The actress will speak for Lizzie, who will say she did not kill her parents because she could not life an ax so many times, being so frail.  "Get out of my house," she screams into the darkness. 
                Maybe Lizzie is the ghost that some say are in the Borden house.  Called my sister, she knew about the seance, which she had not attended, but has heard nothing since then.
                Have a great day.
                Muriel
                 
                Muriel Arnold
                 
                Author of  Lizzie Borden Hands of Time
                For more information
                muriela@...
              • Muriel Arnold
                Just re-read my reply. Forgive the typographical errors. My fingers got tangled up with my thinking too fast. Okay Tesch, you should have a field day with
                Message 7 of 7 , Jul 30, 2002
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                  Just re-read my reply.  Forgive the typographical errors.  My fingers got tangled up with my thinking too fast.  Okay Tesch, you should have a field day with this one.  That's what happen when you send something out without proof reading it first.  Just getting lazy in my old age, but some people manage to get my dander up when they come out with something as outlandish as Daley did in some instances.
                   
                  In the seance section, paragraph 2, change made to maid.
                  In paragraph 3, change life to lift.  The rest of the errors you can easily figure out.
                  That's it for now.  I'm sure everything that was said by Daley and the people planning on seances came across clear as a bell (mud).
                  Muriel
                   
                  Muriel Arnold
                   
                  Author of  Lizzie Borden Hands of Time
                  For more information
                  muriela@...
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 4:35 PM
                  Subject: [40Whacks] Lizzie of course

                  "The Herald News", dated April 16, 2002
                  A story that will never die
                  Christopher Daley, a history teacher in Pembroke and former president of the Pembroke Historical Society, was invited by the Fall River Historical Society to speak on the famous unsolved double murder case.
                  Okay gang, here's why the story about Lizzie will never die.
                  Daley saod Andrew Jackson Borden, worth $150,000 (millions today), was a big cheapo, so much so, that in one of his earlier trades as a casket-maker,  "The story is he cut the legs off the corpses to save money on the caskets he was making."  Fact:
                  Andrew Borden sold caskets; he did not make them.
                  That Lizzie laughed at Bridget on the stairway as she struggled with the locks trying to let Mr. Borden in.  Daley reminded the audience that Abbie had already been murdered.  Fact:
                  There is only Bridget's word for that.  During the inquest, Lizzie did make several attempts to say where she was when her father came home.  1. In the kitchen.
                  2.  Upstairs.  3.  Coming downstairs.  4.  Back in the kitchen.  Fact:
                  As for coming downstairs, Lizzie said it might have been the day before, when Dr. Bowen stopped by and her father was very rude to him.  Dr. Bowen testified he had gone there the day before and someone was on the stairs.  Conclusion:  It had to have been Lizzie on the stairs.
                   
                  Daley then said that Andrew entered and asked Lizzie where was Abbie (his spelling).  Lizzie said her stepmother received a note to visit a school friend.  She brought her father into the sitting room and then told Bridget of a "great sale" on dresses at a downtown store.
                  According to one reporter, Lizzie told him she was in the kitchen, the bell rang, Bridget let him in.  Bridget entered the kitchen and told Lizzie her father had forgotten his key and went upstairs to her room.  Lizzie joined her father in the sitting room.  He was looking at some papers.  He said he was feeling no better and no worse than the day before.
                    (The day before, he failed to attend a board of director's meeting at the Massasoit Bank, losing the $10 he would have received had he attended.)  Bridget told reporters that Mr. Borden said he was feeling okay.  She went back to washing the windows in the sitting room.)  Like hell she did.  No matter.
                   
                  Daley now said that Lizzie testified she heard a moan.  Fact:
                  Lizzie never testified to saying that.  She told Buffinton that she heard a scraping noise as ashe approached the house.  I think Mrs. Churchill might have said that Lizzie mentioned hearing a moan.
                   
                  Daley then said Abby was murdered about an hour before Andrew.  (That makes Abby being killed around 10.  I disagree.  No matter.)
                   
                  The picnic at Rocky Point, Daley said only one police officer was on duty.
                  According to Marshal Hilliard, only half the police force went to Rocky Point.
                   
                  Daley said:  After a two-day coroner's inquest, Lizze was found probably guilty and bound over to a grand jury.  Questions:
                  1.  What happened to day three of that inquest.
                  2.  What happened to the Hearing?
                  3.  If it was a coroner's inquest, why was District Attorney and Judge Blaisdell running the show?
                  4.  Why weren't physicians called to testify as to their findings?
                   
                  Daley also spoke about Lizzie's assistant defense cousel  (ex-Governor Robinson).  He said Lizzie had "deep pockets".
                   
                  Then Daley went one better.
                  The prosecution, at her trial, failed to get Lizzie's conflicting stories before the grand jury into the record at her trial.  The grand jury testimony was ruled inadmissible because she had not been represented by any attorney.  (Try that one on for size.)
                   
                  Daley mentioned how sthe skulls of the two victims were presented at the trial.  The police had the heads removed from the corpses and the flesh "boiled off the skulls" before entering them into evidence.  Fact:  Dr. Dolan, Medical Examiner, stopped the bodies from being buried on Saturday for further autopsies.  Don't know whose idea it was ro remove the heads, Knowlton or Dolan.  Most likely Dolan talked to Knowlton and it could have been Knowlton's, as removing the heads of victims was not something that was usually done.
                   
                  Daley gave as the possible killer was:  Lizzie, Emma, Bridget alone or with Lizzie, Uncle John Morse, or someone hired to do it.  He did not think Lizzie phisically did it, but maybe she knew who did but kept quiet.  He found Morse's alibi most intriguing.  He asked how many people, getting on a subway, would notice the driver's badge number?
                  Well gang, I hope Daley's speech helped clear up the case.  For me, it's just another "here we go again".
                   
                  Back in January 2001, they held a seance at the Borden house with plans on holding others at different restaurants once the kinks were all out.  They claimed the seance puts a new spin to the mystery and acutally comes one step closer to solving it.  They expect to explain why no blood was found on Lizzie.  That it would be a few years before they were ready.
                   
                  The actress is to play the part of Bridget's granddaughter where she tells stories of Bridget's past and helps the audience feel what the made must have gone through following the murders.  That it was a witch hunt for her grandmother; tells her daughter (didn't know she had any) stories of the Borden household.
                   
                  During this future seance, the audience will see a replica of Andrew's skull, and once the candle is extinguished, see a bloody hand print appearing on what was an unstained letter from Lizzie to Bridget, and an ax appearing by the skull.  The actress will speak for Lizzie, who will say she did not kill her parents because she could not life an ax so many times, being so frail.  "Get out of my house," she screams into the darkness. 
                  Maybe Lizzie is the ghost that some say are in the Borden house.  Called my sister, she knew about the seance, which she had not attended, but has heard nothing since then.
                  Have a great day.
                  Muriel
                   
                  Muriel Arnold
                   
                  Author of  Lizzie Borden Hands of Time
                  For more information
                  muriela@...


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