Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: Weird? Well...

Expand Messages
  • Tango9311@xxx.xxx
    In response to Patsy s message about her visit to Fall River... Thanks so much for joining us, Patsy. I enjoyed reading about your stay at Lizzie s house. I
    Message 1 of 11 , Jun 1 4:49 AM
      In response to Patsy's message about her visit to Fall River...

      Thanks so much for joining us, Patsy. I enjoyed reading about your stay at
      Lizzie's house. I did have to laugh when you mentioned that your husband
      thinks he married a "weirdo". My boyfriend took one look at my Lizzie Borden
      books and said "I sure hope you never get mad at me..." I guess in some ways
      we are "weird", but the Lizzie Borden story has fascinated me for years.
      Whenever people ask me why I have this strange "hobby", I can't really give
      them a good answer.

      This might be an interesting topic for discussion. Why are we so fascinated
      with Lizzie Borden? Is it the challenge of trying to solve an unsolved crime?
      Do we just want to determine for ourselves whether or not justice was served
      by Lizzie's acquittal? Or do we have other reasons?

      Let's talk about it! I'm directing this question toward everyone who's joined
      the list:

      Why are YOU interested in Lizzie Borden???

      I'm looking forward to hearing everyone's answer. So please... don't be shy!
      Jump right in and take part. I think we can have a very interesting list!

      Linn
    • Patsy751@xxx.xxx
      Dear Group, I had trouble sleeping last night thinking about what I would say would be the reason that I have always had an interest in the Lizzie Borden case.
      Message 2 of 11 , Jun 2 10:07 AM
        Dear Group,
        I had trouble sleeping last night thinking about what I would say would be
        the reason that I have always had an interest in the Lizzie Borden case. The
        best answer that I could come up with is that I have no idea. If pressed, I
        guess I would say that I have always felt that it is a mystery that should
        have been solved completely, and by reading and gathering the facts, it could
        be done. Therefore, any little tidbit of information is added to your
        storeroom of LB knowledge, and at some point it will all make sense. So I
        guess what I'm saying is that in some small way you become a player...

        If the above does not make sense, please forgive me, it was late and very hot
        last night. Anyway while I'm thinking of it, I believe the room rates were
        different at the Lizzie B & B. It was slightly higher to stay in the room
        with the private bath. At this point, I do need to make a confession. We
        stayed in Abby and Andrew's room which has attached to it a small room with
        an extra bed. (It had been Abby's dressing room or sewing room). Well, I
        have to tell you that at the last moment, I couldn't pull the trigger on
        sleeping in Abby's bed, and ended up in the small attached bedroom. I felt
        foolish the next morning when the room was filled with sunshine, and I could
        hear the birds singing, but when it was dark....

        I think I will take a few minutes now to give my humble theory of the
        mystery. I believe that Lizze is guilty of the murder for definite reasons
        which I will go into. However, I will say that I am not positive that she
        actually committed the physical act of the murders. I believe it to be
        possible that she could have let the murderer in and out again.

        My reasoning is the usual. Having been in the house itself, I find it
        impossible to believe that Lizzie couldn't hear (at the very least) her 200
        pound stepmother being hacked to death and falling to the floor! The house
        is not that big, and coming up and down the staircase from her bedroom, at a
        certain point on the stairs, she would have had a clear view of Abby's body.

        Lizzie is the only one who ever talked about a note that her stepmother went
        out....nobody else saw it delivered or after an extensive search (after the
        murders) did anyone ever come forward to say that they had sent it.

        I thought that it was strange that Andrew's coat was bunched up behind his
        head. I believe it was used as a protection for clothing during the murders.
        Also, Lizzie said that she had helped him take off his shoes for a nap, and
        in the photographs, he still had them on.

        Another aspect of the case which I find very curious are the actions of her
        uncle, John V. Morse. Specifically, when he came back from visiting, he
        walked into the yard immediately after the murders, sat down eating a pear,
        and did not ask anyone what was going on! Yet, the house was surrounded by
        police, the curious yada, yada, yada.

        He was overheard asking Lizzie "What happened"? I always believe that he
        meant why was her father dead too! I feel that only Abby was the intended
        victim so as to eliminate her from inheritin. Of course, that brings up to
        the motive which I think was money. I think that Andrew had plans to make a
        new will more in favor of his wife, and that would never do.

        Okay, I know that I've gone on way too long. One little interesting thing
        which I would like to pass on is that when I moved into the house I am now
        living in (20 yearrs ago), I was in my yard reading one of my first Lizzie
        books and an elderly neighbor saw me. He told me that his father had been a
        photographer on the case. Little did I know that I would develop such an
        interest, and I wonder if his father had passed on to him a personal
        collection of photographs. He has long since died, and I regret a missed
        opportunity.

        I hope I haven't gone on for too long.

        Love to hear from everyone.

        Patsy751
      • Genna25777@xxx.xxx
        In a message dated 6/2/99 12:08:55 PM EST, Patsy751@AOL.com writes:
        Message 3 of 11 , Jun 2 7:01 PM
          In a message dated 6/2/99 12:08:55 PM EST, Patsy751@... writes:

          << Of course, that brings up to
          the motive which I think was money. I think that Andrew had plans to make a
          new will more in favor of his wife, and that would never do.
          >>

          OK, I've got lots of questions. First let me say that some days I'd swear
          that Lizzie did it, other days I'd swear she couldn't possibly have killed
          them. In other words, I don't know!!! I do think the murders were
          pre-meditated, but what was the motive? Money, I suppose, but here's a
          question. Did Andrew have a will? I don't recall that any will was ever
          found. I know it was talked about during the trial, but the existence of any
          will was never established, was it? If there was a will, what happened to it?
          Wasn't Lizzie actually very wealthy in her own right? I guess she could have
          been very greedy though.

          If it's true that Abby was the intended victim, why did Lizzie also kill her
          father? Why didn't she kill Abby (or have someone else do it) and then summon
          the police, have her father located, and play INNOCENT? There was plenty of
          time for her to kill Abby, clean herself up, go downstairs, and then 30
          minutes later go back upstairs and "discover" Abby's body. Why did she wait
          an hour and a half and then kill her father??? More than anything, I think
          it's the time that passed between the two killings that really puzzles me
          about the case. I can see possible motives for her to kill her stepmother,
          but why her father???????
        • Tango9311@xxx.xxx
          In a message dated 6/2/99 9:03:49 PM EST, Genna25777@AOL.com writes: I agree completely with this... and
          Message 4 of 11 , Jun 3 5:01 AM
            In a message dated 6/2/99 9:03:49 PM EST, Genna25777@... writes:

            << I do think the murders were pre-meditated... >>

            I agree completely with this... and here's my reasoning:

            1. The murders took place on a day when the police of Fall River were away
            enjoying a clam bake at Rocky Point. What better time to commit a crime than
            when the police will be very slow to respond?

            2. Emma Borden was in her 40s at the time and had never spent a night away
            from home. But at the time of the murders, she was in Fairhaven visiting
            friends.

            3. Uncle John Morse arrived "unexpectedly" the night before. Although he had
            no luggage, he later stated he planned to stay for a week.

            4. The night before the murders, Lizzie talked to her friend, Alice Russell,
            and said she feared something bad was going to happen. She mentioned that a
            man had argued with her father and that she was very worried.

            And then there's also the disputed attempt to purchase prussic acid. Did
            Lizzie visit Eli Bence's shop and try to purchase poison? If so, that's
            another incident that suggests a crime in the works.

            Maybe none of these points actually "prove" the murders were planned in
            advance, but taken together, they show that something strange was going on.
            That's my opinion, at least.

            Linn
          • Patsy751@xxx.xxx
            Hi Everyone, I just thought I would take a few minutes to contribute what I could to the newest letters. I saw the Elizabeth Montgomery movie, and for a made
            Message 5 of 11 , Jun 3 8:01 AM
              Hi Everyone,

              I just thought I would take a few minutes to contribute what I could to the
              newest letters. I saw the Elizabeth Montgomery movie, and for a made for TV
              movie it was pretty well done. They really stuck to the facts of the case as
              best as they could, but they did provide their own theory which was that
              Lizzie did it by stripping down completely and murdering her parents naked so
              that their would be no sign of blood. The last I read, it is not available
              on videocassette, but it is repeated once in a while on TV. Also A & E has a
              biography of Lizzie which is quite well done.

              Just for comment....what if the reason Andrew was killed is because he came
              home sooner than expected, and the killer over-reacted and killed him too
              because he/she couldn't get out of the house because Bridget was washing the
              window all around the house. This would be the theory if Lizzie had an
              outsider do it. If it was Lizzie then that probably meant that she wanted to
              make a clean sweep of it. If someone came in (as a random murderer I mean)
              I don't see how this person could conceal themselves in the house all that
              time without Lizzie's knowledge.

              I believe that is why Lizzie was shunned after the murders. The people could
              not conceive of a woman committing such a crime, and yet, once the dust
              settled, they began to ask themselves....well how did it happen?

              Later.

              Patsy751
            • Effra@xxx.xxx
              In a message dated 6/1/99 4:51:53 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Tango9311@aol.com writes:
              Message 6 of 11 , Jun 8 1:32 AM
                In a message dated 6/1/99 4:51:53 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Tango9311@...
                writes:

                << Thanks so much for joining us, Patsy. I enjoyed reading about your stay at
                Lizzie's house. I did have to laugh when you mentioned that your husband
                thinks he married a "weirdo". My boyfriend took one look at my Lizzie
                Borden
                books and said "I sure hope you never get mad at me..." I guess in some
                ways
                we are "weird", but the Lizzie Borden story has fascinated me for years.
                Whenever people ask me why I have this strange "hobby", I can't really give
                them a good answer.
                >>

                Hi folks --

                Can't write too much right now (I'll write an intro soon, I promise),
                but I just wanted to say that when I subscribed to the _Lizzie Borden
                Quarterly_, the welcome pack I got included a bumper sticker for a bar in
                Fall River called "Lizzie's," I believe. Before I cut it up, the full text of
                the bumper sticker read: "Lizzie's in Fall River, Massachusetts Home of
                Lizzie Borden" and there is a drawing of Lizzie (from one of the well-known
                photos of her).

                I cut out the "Lizzie's" so bumpersticker just reads: "Fall River,
                Massachusetts Home of LIzzie Borden" with the drawing. And I . . . yes, you
                got it . . . I put it on the bumper of my car. It's interesting to see
                people's reactions to the bumpersticker (I watch them using my rear view
                mirror when I'm stopped at stoplights). The reactions range from bemused
                interest (which grows as I see them pondering the sticker) to out and out
                hilarity. :)

                There are probably some people in my town who see my car regularly
                and refer to me as the "Lizzie Borden lady." :)

                -- Effra
              • Effra@xxx.xxx
                In a message dated 6/2/99 10:08:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Patsy751@aol.com writes:
                Message 7 of 11 , Jun 8 1:55 AM
                  In a message dated 6/2/99 10:08:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Patsy751@...
                  writes:

                  << If the above does not make sense, please forgive me, it was late and very
                  hot
                  last night. >>

                  Interesting. That sentence was, verbatim, the last sentence of
                  Lizzie's confession to Emma that she was the killer.

                  (Okay, so that didn't quite work, as the murders happened in the
                  morning. But it was very hot that day, allegedly.) :)

                  -- Effra
                • Ghostdance@xxxxx.xxx
                  My boyfriend also says he hopes I don t get mad at him. He claims that he sleeps with one eye open and says he should hide all sharp objects from me!!! LOL He
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jun 8 3:32 PM
                    My boyfriend also says he hopes I don't get mad at him. He claims that
                    he sleeps with one eye open and says he should hide all sharp objects
                    from me!!! LOL

                    He always, says "What is it about Lizzie"? I have to say, I myself
                    really don't know but I can't help it, I am obsessed with her!

                    Autumn
                  • Effra@xxx.xxx
                    Re-send of the second message that was swallowed by Onelist: In a message dated 6/8/99 1:32:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Effra writes:
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jun 10 6:27 PM
                      Re-send of the second message that was swallowed by Onelist:

                      In a message dated 6/8/99 1:32:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Effra writes:

                      << Subj: Re: [40Whacks] Weird? Well...
                      Date: 6/8/99 1:32:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time
                      From: Effra
                      To: 40Whacks@onelist.com

                      In a message dated 6/1/99 4:51:53 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
                      Tango9311@... writes:

                      << Thanks so much for joining us, Patsy. I enjoyed reading about your stay
                      at
                      Lizzie's house. I did have to laugh when you mentioned that your husband
                      thinks he married a "weirdo". My boyfriend took one look at my Lizzie
                      Borden
                      books and said "I sure hope you never get mad at me..." I guess in some
                      ways
                      we are "weird", but the Lizzie Borden story has fascinated me for years.
                      Whenever people ask me why I have this strange "hobby", I can't really give
                      them a good answer.
                      >>

                      Hi folks --

                      Can't write too much right now (I'll write an intro soon, I promise),
                      but I just wanted to say that when I subscribed to the _Lizzie Borden
                      Quarterly_, the welcome pack I got included a bumper sticker for a bar in
                      Fall River called "Lizzie's," I believe. Before I cut it up, the full text of
                      the bumper sticker read: "Lizzie's in Fall River, Massachusetts Home of
                      Lizzie Borden" and there is a drawing of Lizzie (from one of the well-known
                      photos of her).

                      I cut out the "Lizzie's" so bumpersticker just reads: "Fall River,
                      Massachusetts Home of LIzzie Borden" with the drawing. And I . . . yes, you
                      got it . . . I put it on the bumper of my car. It's interesting to see
                      people's reactions to the bumpersticker (I watch them using my rear view
                      mirror when I'm stopped at stoplights). The reactions range from bemused
                      interest (which grows as I see them pondering the sticker) to out and out
                      hilarity. :)

                      There are probably some people in my town who see my car regularly
                      and refer to me as the "Lizzie Borden lady." :)

                      -- Effra >>
                    • Effra@xxx.xxx
                      In a message dated 6/2/99 7:03:51 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Genna25777@aol.com writes:
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jun 11 10:29 PM
                        In a message dated 6/2/99 7:03:51 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
                        Genna25777@... writes:

                        << If it's true that Abby was the intended victim, why did Lizzie also kill
                        her
                        father? Why didn't she kill Abby (or have someone else do it) and then
                        summon
                        the police, have her father located, and play INNOCENT? There was plenty of
                        time for her to kill Abby, clean herself up, go downstairs, and then 30
                        minutes later go back upstairs and "discover" Abby's body. Why did she wait
                        an hour and a half and then kill her father??? More than anything, I think
                        it's the time that passed between the two killings that really puzzles me
                        about the case. I can see possible motives for her to kill her stepmother,
                        but why her father???????
                        >>

                        Some people have speculated that Lizzie (and maybe Emma) was the
                        victim of incest . . . what do y'all think of that idea?

                        -- Effra
                      • Tango9311@xxx.xxx
                        In a message dated 6/12/99 0:29:40 AM EST, Effra@AOL.com writes:
                        Message 11 of 11 , Jun 12 4:53 AM
                          In a message dated 6/12/99 0:29:40 AM EST, Effra@... writes:

                          << Some people have speculated that Lizzie (and maybe Emma) was the
                          victim of incest . . . what do y'all think of that idea? >>


                          It's an interesting thought to consider. Somehow I don't think I could
                          accept the idea though, mainly because I would expect the situation to turn
                          violent much sooner than it really did if incest were the case. There's also
                          Lizzie's personality to consider. From what I've read, she was rather
                          headstrong and independent. Had she been a victim of incest, I think she
                          would have found some way to "escape" from the house.
                          But then again, maybe murdering Abby and Andrew was her only form of "escape".
                          As I said, it's an interesting thought to consider.

                          Linn
                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.