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heat wave - continued

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  • PatriciaLu@aol.com
    I finally got a chance to check the original source book Lizzie Borden Past and Present and on page 61, it cites the various weather reports for August 2 to
    Message 1 of 7 , Apr 30, 2001
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      I finally got a chance to check the original source book "Lizzie Borden Past
      and Present" and on page 61, it cites the various weather reports for August
      2 to August 4. For August 4, the U.S. Signal Service (not sure what that is)
      said the temp was 67 at 7 am, 83 at 2 pm and 75 at 9 pm.

      On the following page, three articles from the Lizze Borden Quarterly are
      cited with this conclusion:

      "Excellent documentation on the temperature on August 4, 1892, was presented
      [in these articles]. A reproduction of the U.S. Weather Service document was
      included by Mr. Maynard F. Bertolet, editor of the Lizzie Borden Quarterly.
      Given the documentation, it can be recorded that the murders were not
      committed on a sweltering hot day."

      However, in smaller type below this, it says, "Note: No information was
      located to determine the humidity on August 4, 1892."

      So if  it's not the heat... maybe it's the humidity!

      Pat in NY
    • YnrChyldzWyld
      ... The precursor to today s Weather Service... The Signal Service in those days were trained telegraphers, utilizing Morse Code to send messages of
      Message 2 of 7 , May 1 5:40 AM
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        On Mon, 30 Apr 2001 PatriciaLu@... wrote:
        >I finally got a chance to check the original source book "Lizzie Borden Past
        >and Present" and on page 61, it cites the various weather reports for August
        >2 to August 4. For August 4, the U.S. Signal Service (not sure what that is)

        The precursor to today's Weather Service...

        The 'Signal Service' in those days were trained telegraphers, utilizing
        Morse Code to send messages of importance...including the daily
        weather...


        >said the temp was 67 at 7 am, 83 at 2 pm and 75 at 9 pm.

        And I can tell you from experience, 83 in southern New England can be
        quite sticky, if there's high humidity (and in August there usually
        is)...

        Also, if the Signal Service was utilizing a station down at the shore
        (which I suspect, as that was the usual location in those days), and 83
        reading at the shore could easily be 90 or more just a few miles
        inland...

        Again, utilizing my own experience, there have been many times in the
        summer when it was in the 90s at my apartment, and yet when I got down to
        the beach to fly my kites -- as the crow flies, approx. 7 miles away --
        the temps have been in the low 80s...

        Today, the local stations here in Connecticut are predicting temps in the
        high 80s, perhaps 90 or more, inland, but saying that the shoreline temps
        will only be in the 70s...

        If I remember, I'll try to get the 11am and 2pm temps for both the
        shoreline and where I work (about 5 miles inland) and post them today, to
        show how much of a difference there can be between the two...


        >"Excellent documentation on the temperature on August 4, 1892, was presented
        >[in these articles]. A reproduction of the U.S. Weather Service document was
        >included by Mr. Maynard F. Bertolet, editor of the Lizzie Borden Quarterly.
        >Given the documentation, it can be recorded that the murders were not
        >committed on a sweltering hot day."

        Anyone who would deem that 83 is not 'sweltering hot', has not
        experienced a typical muggy southern New England summer day...

        And again, nothing is said about WHERE the recording station was in
        relation to Fall River, and I can't stress enough the vast difference
        just a mile or two from shore can make in the temperature in this neck of
        the woods...


        >So if it's not the heat... maybe it's the humidity!

        And in August, you can count on it being extremely humid...

        Because most weather systems that bring in the heat here are "Bermuda
        Highs" (which is what is bringing us our hot weather today and for the
        rest of the week)...a high pressure system sits out on the Atlantic,
        generally in the vacinity of Bermuda, and pumps not only heat, but all
        the moisture it picks up from the Atlantic, and dumps it in southern New
        England...


        June
      • revcoal@connix.com
        Okay, here are the temperature and humidity readings I took today. I live in the New Haven, Connecticut area, so the weather in my area is pretty similar to
        Message 3 of 7 , May 1 4:02 PM
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          Okay, here are the temperature and humidity readings I took today. I
          live in the New Haven, Connecticut area, so the weather in my area is
          pretty similar to what is going on in the Providence RI/Fall River MA
          area...

          At 11:45 this morning, these were some sample reading from my
          vacinity:

          Bridgeport, Central HS (approx. 5 miles from shore): temp=82,
          humidity=25%, heat index=79

          Trumbull (approx. 8 miles from shore): temp=74, humidity=23%, heat
          index=74

          West Haven, Westshore MS (right on the shore): temp=69,
          humidity=44%, heat index=76


          We've had pretty low humidity for a 'Bermuda High'...in fact the NWS
          has issued a fire alert for our state, since we've been so dry, and
          now the unseasonably warm temps are exacerbating the situation...but
          I think it shows the wide variance that can happen in temperatures
          just a couple of miles apart, especially at the shore.

          'As the crow flies', there is perhaps 3 or 4 miles between the
          recording station in Bridgeport, and the one in Trumbull; Trumbull is
          farther inland (where the temps are usually warmer) than the
          Bridgeport station. But the Bridgeport station is in a fairly urban
          area (brick and stone buildings, lots of paving), while the Trumbull
          station is strictly suburban, lots of grass and trees.

          Remember, the Bordens lived in a fairly 'urban' area of Fall River,
          with paved roads and only a block or two from downtown, with its
          brick and stone buildings. That creates a 'heat sink', an
          environment that is warmer than the surrounding areas...

          BTW, based on those readings, anyone who doesn't live here would say
          we had a nice, mildly warm day. But let me tell you, most people
          were complaining about how hot it was today, and did not generally
          feel comfortable. And that's with low humidity. If the humidity had
          been higher, it would have really felt sweltering today.


          June
        • Patsy751@aol.com
          All things considered weather-wise when you consider the clothing of the day...the layers on layers, plus not allowing the arms or ankles to show, it had to
          Message 4 of 7 , May 2 9:03 AM
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            All things considered weather-wise when you consider the clothing of the
            day...the layers on layers, plus not allowing the arms or ankles to show, it
            had to FEEL mighty hot.

            Not only that, but if I had just butchered two people, I would be "sweating
            bullets" too.

            Patsy
          • PatriciaLu@aol.com
            In a message dated 5/4/01 4:32:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Patsy751@aol.com writes:
            Message 5 of 7 , May 4 6:28 AM
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              In a message dated 5/4/01 4:32:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Patsy751@...
              writes:

              << All things considered weather-wise when you consider the clothing of the
              day...the layers on layers, plus not allowing the arms or ankles to show, it
              had to FEEL mighty hot. >>

              I think you're missing the point. Part of the mythology around the murders is
              that it was a sweltering hot day where the heat somehow contributed to the
              murderer's passions. Temperature records show that it was a relatively mild
              day -- NOT that it didn't feel hot, feel uncomfortable... but considering it
              might have been in the 90s in Fall River that day in August, the facts prove
              it wasn't... the "coolness" of the day was relative to what it might have
              been.

              Pat
            • Ynr Chyldz Wyld
              From: PatriciaLu@aol.com ... I ve never read anywhere that anyone at the time attributed the heat as being one of the causes for the murders. What I HAVE read
              Message 6 of 7 , May 4 10:40 AM
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                From: PatriciaLu@...
                >I think you're missing the point. Part of the mythology around the murders
                >is that it was a sweltering hot day where the heat somehow contributed to
                >the murderer's passions.

                I've never read anywhere that anyone at the time attributed the heat as
                being one of the causes for the murders.

                What I HAVE read is accounts of statements made by the attorneys at the
                trial who stated to the jury and audience "you all remember how hot it was
                that day", and compared the heat on the day of the murders to the heat in
                the courtroom during the June trial...

                I find it hard to believe that EVERYONE would collectively hallucinate that
                the day was hot if it was 'relatively mild'...


                >Temperature records show that it was a relatively mild
                >day

                What I have been endeavoring to show with my daily temperature posts are two
                things: first, that the temps that have been provided are NOT 'relatively
                mild' in southern New England...it can be pretty uncomforatable, if high
                humidity is factored in.

                The second point I've been trying to make is that if the official temps for
                that day were recorded down at the shore, the temps in downtown Fall River
                could have been a good 10 to 15 degrees higher. That is quite a common
                phenomenom in southern New England...onshore breezes off of Long Island
                Sound, and especially the Atlantic (which would be the case in that area)
                are quite cool, causing a 10 to 15 degree temperature difference between the
                shoreline and even a mile or two inland...

                Case in point...when I was driving into work at 11am this morning (I work a
                later shift), the temp was supposedly in the high 70s, but the humidity has
                gotten higher so it felt pretty hot, sticky and uncomfortable.


                >NOT that it didn't feel hot, feel uncomfortable... but considering it
                >might have been in the 90s in Fall River that day in August, the facts
                > >prove it wasn't...

                The facts prove nothing of the sort. No one has found out WHERE the
                recording station was, and it was typical in those days for the recording
                stations to be down at the shore, because of the emphasis on shipping in the
                area. If that indeed was the case, then downtown Fall River could have been
                10 to 15 degrees hotter than the temperature shown at the recording station.

                We've been breaking high temperature records here in Connecticut (also over
                in RI and southeastern MA) over the past 4 days...while the temperatures
                have been in the 90s in most of the state (including where I work, which is
                approx. 5 miles from the shoreline, and where I live, which is approx. 8
                miles from the shore), the temps have never gotten above the low to mid 80s
                directly AT the shore. And at 11am, the temps AT THE SHORE were in the 70s
                (but got into the low to mid 80s by mid to late afternoon). So 100 years
                from now, someone reading the headlines of Connecticut newspapers which are
                loudly talking about the extended heatwave and how unseasonably hot it has
                been for the first week of May, will declare it all a 'legend' and 'myth' if
                all they have to go by are the temperatures recorded at the shore....


                June
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              • Patsy751@aol.com
                In a message dated 05/05/2001 2:28:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ynrchyldzwyld@hotmail.com writes:
                Message 7 of 7 , May 5 1:55 PM
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                  In a message dated 05/05/2001 2:28:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                  ynrchyldzwyld@... writes:

                  << I've never read anywhere that anyone at the time attributed the heat as
                  being one of the causes for the murders. >>


                  Good point.

                  I would also like to bring up another point which has always bothered me. A
                  great deal is made about whether or not Lizzie was in the barn at the time of
                  Andrew's murder. (e.g. footprints in the loft, eating the pears outside,
                  looking for lead sinkers, who saw a woman coming from the barn etc) .
                  However why does it seem that the scrutiny of her whereabouts during Abby's
                  murder is not so intense. I am speaking from the vantage point of having
                  been in the house, and I just cannot fathom (even if Abby was surprised and
                  did not have time to scrream out) how Lizzie could not have heard
                  something,anything going on. (not to mention spotting someone before,
                  during , in between or after the murders.)
                  If she had nothing whatsoever to do with the murders, that murderer was one
                  lucky duck.

                  Patsy
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