Re: [40Whacks] Time and Alibis
- In a message dated 4/23/01 7:27:42 PM Central Daylight Time,
<< The 2nd version given in one of the newspaper articles has the women
adjusting the time Morse left to a little after 11, this time after getting
the supposed phonecall from Dr. Bowen. The problem with this is the same as
with the above, it gives Dr. Bowen supposedly prescient knowledge of a crime
that hasn't been reported yet. Both these accounts also are too early for
Morse's later detailed account of his travels back to the Borden house, and
leave anywhere from 15 to 30 minutes of his time unaccounted for.
The last story these women gave was one where Dr. Bowen wasn't involved at
all, and had Morse leaving their house at any time between 11:20 and 11:30...
>>One thing that's been pointed out to me regarding "times" is that
in the late 19th century, time-keeping devices and record-keeping
weren't as precise as what we know today. A discrepancy of
15 or 20 minutes wouldn't be of much import. Even today, with
all our sophisticated clocks and watches, we still have a tendency
to "guesstimate" time. If questioned about something that happened
at 11:15, we might easily say "Oh, it was about 11 that morning..."
Just figured I'd throw that in <g>.
- On Sat, 28 Apr 2001 WestList@... wrote:
>> The last story these women gave was one where Dr. Bowen wasn'tQuite right. It's pointed out in "Lizzie Didn't Do It!" that the person
>>involved at all, and had Morse leaving their house at any time between
>>11:20 and 11:30...
>One thing that's been pointed out to me regarding "times" is that
>in the late 19th century, time-keeping devices and record-keeping
>weren't as precise as what we know today. A discrepancy of
>15 or 20 minutes wouldn't be of much import.
who made the initial call to the police regarding the Borden murders
stated that the time in the store where he was calling from was 5 minutes
before 11, yet the Fall River police recorded the time it was reported as
But apparently the police took this into consideration when checking out
the Morse alibi...remember, he had first gone to the Post Office, and so
noted the time via the Town Hall clock, which in turn used the rail
station clock...both clocks were considered 'the' standard by which
everyone else (including the Fall River PD and the trolley line) set
their own clocks (remember that Bridget noted the time she was upstairs
'napping' by the Town Hall clock striking 11)...
So Morse early in the day synchronized his watch (or claimed to) to the
'standard' timepiece of Fall River...
The clock at the niece's house may have been off from this standard time,
but not Morse's watch. So the first discrepancies arose between the
times Morse himself gave for being there, and what his niece and the
other relative stated.
Now, for someone who memorized the cap number of the conductor on the
trolley he took back to the Borden's, it's strange that Morse didn't say
anything to his niece about a vast discrepancy between his watch and her
clocks, if indeed there was one.
My guess is that there wasn't...and I believe the Fall River PD checked
this out, that indeed Morse's watch and the clocks in the niece's
residence were relatively in synch...in other words, there wasn't a gap
of 10, 15, 20 minutes between the 2..
Which means the clocks in the niece's residence were pretty much on
time...at least, in regards to the Town Hall and RR station clocks...
which then also means in regards to the time that the Fall River PD noted
the call was made to the station regarding the murders.
In which case, the first 2 stories the women gave both police and
reporters has both Bowen and Morse knowing about the murders BEFORE the
call was made to the Fall River PD, Bowen either arriving at the niece's
residence or phoning there at some time before 11:10. The next version
had Bowen arriving or phoning AFTER 11:15, but would have still meant
that Morse knew about the murders BEFORE arriving back at the Bordens...
and his behavior lends credence to this speculation.
It was only after it was reported that Morse claimed to have known
nothing before arriving back at the Bordens did the women change the
story to where Bowen never arrived or phoned their residence, and that
Morse left sometime between 11:20 to 11:30.
I find it interesting that no one, not the police nor the reporters,
followed up on the Dr. Bowen angle...
Also, that according to the women's initial version, there were 'so many
people in and out that morning', that they couldn't account for Morse's
whereabouts with any certainty after he had initially shown up...indeed,
in their initial version, neither women could swear to the exact time
he'd arrived...apparently 'someone' told them he'd come, but the first
one to see him didn't do so until a good 15 or 20 minutes afterwards...
So where were all those 'so many people' that just happened to be there
that morning, and why weren't they interviewed? Especially the person
who told the woman that Morse had arrived?
It must have been one crowded soiree if neither woman actually saw Morse
until at least 15 minutes after he was reported to have arrived...
- Even though Morse had an alibi for the time frame that Andrew was murdered,
why did the police not find it suspicious that he sat in the yard eating
pears, and not asking anyone what had happened? When he finally did go in
the house, he was heard to be asking Lizzie, "Lizzie, what happened?" Maybe
Abby was the only one that was on the hit list, and he was asking why Andrew
was dead also????
By the way last night on the Travel channel was a program called "The
Destinations in the World". LB's place made nunber one.
P.S. Personal note to J.T. - THANKS FOR MANNY1
- In a message dated 4/30/01 11:22:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
<< By the way last night on the Travel channel was a program called "The
Destinations in the World". LB's place made nunber one. >>
I am not so much of a fanatic that I wanted to sleep there when I went, but I
really do wish that they had kept the integrity of the original house more in
tact. I can't blame the current owners for making it a B&B -- I sort of think
of that as the price you pay to preserve the house.
However I remember the tour started in the dining room where they had a
number of pictures of pears hanging on the walls as a ha-ha joke about Lizzie
eating the pears.
The house could have been far creepier than it was in that I *wanted badly*
to see the house as it was that day.
- In a message dated 04/30/2001 1:14:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<< However I remember the tour started in the dining room where they had a
number of pictures of pears hanging on the walls as a ha-ha joke about
eating the pears. >>
That's the exact reason why the Fall River Historical Society distances
itself from the B & B. They were so afraid of a "tacky" slant.
>From: Patsy751@...>Even though Morse had an alibi for the time frame that Andrew was murdered,
>why didthe police not find it suspicious that he sat in the yard eating
>pears, and not asking anyone what had happened?
Apparently the Fall River PD were suspicious of Morse, enough so that they put a tail on him to see where he went and with whom he had dealings. It was due to this 'tail' that Morse was able to be rescued from the mob outside the Borden house who attacked him when Morse went out the evening after the murders to 'mail a letter'. The general public considered Morse the prime suspect too, which is why he was attacked by the mob...
But it seems no one ever thought to check on just WHO Morse was so keen to communicate with, and just WHAT it was he communicated.
But apparently Morse's "airtight" alibi, seeming lack of motive, and Lizzie's strange behavior and contradictory statements removed Morse as a suspect in the eyes of the police...
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- In a message dated 4/30/01 1:32:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Patsy751@...
<< That's the exact reason why the Fall River Historical Society distances
itself from the B & B. They were so afraid of a "tacky" slant. >>
I wasn't aware of that, but now that I think about it, I sensed it. I only
have one day that I was there to judge from --a Saturday in October -- but
there were no casual visitors in our little group of seven or so people. I
tend to be a purist about these things but the murder aspect of the house
wasn't overdone -- just the crappy decor. Maybe if one of us wins Lotto,
PowerBall, etc., we could do a better job with historical authenticity than
is being done now.
- In a message dated 04/30/2001 2:17:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<< But it seems no one ever thought to check on just WHO Morse was so keen to
communicate with, and just WHAT it was he communicated. >>
I just finished reading "Yesterday In Old Fall River" by Paul Hoffman which
gives a description of just about everyone involved in the case. I know I
read something about who Morse posted the letter to so I will look it up.