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Re: Dr. Bowen

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  • Tango9311@xxx.xxx
    In a message dated 9/8/99 12:23:09 PM EST, Ghost_Talks@webtv.net writes: Dr.
    Message 1 of 17 , Sep 8, 1999
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      In a message dated 9/8/99 12:23:09 PM EST, Ghost_Talks@... writes:

      << This is the 2nd time I have heard about the Dr - what role did he play? >>

      Dr. Bowen was one of the main players... he lived across the street from the
      Bordens and he was the physician Abby visited, claiming to have been poisoned.
      I've heard that he did nothing more than assure her she would live and send
      her
      home, and I've also heard that he accompanied her home and was all but thrown
      out of the house by Andrew. Which story is true? I don't know.

      But, there's more about the good doctor! He was seen burning a piece of paper
      in the Borden stove... it's said that the paper had the name "Emma" written on
      it, and people have speculated that it was Andrew's will, although the doctor
      claimed it was a note from his daughter. He was on the scene only moments
      after Andrew was murdered -- blood was still oozing from the body -- and he
      was
      the first to examine not only Andrew's body but also Abby's body. Dr. Bowen
      comforted Lizzie and prescribed a sedative for her. It was Dr. Bowen who
      sent the telegram to Emma at Fairhaven, advising her to return home
      immediately... and the most suspicious fact (in my opinion) is that Dr. Bowen
      made a house call that
      afternoon -- to the same house on Weybosset Street that Uncle John Morse
      had visited earlier that day. Now, if only I could recall where I read that
      interesting
      little tidbit of information!

      Linn
    • Jeffrey K. Tesch
      Liked Roy s comments about the good Doctor. How bout that torn up note he surreptitiously tried to piece together, and then burned in the stove rather than
      Message 2 of 17 , Jan 9, 2000
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        Liked Roy's comments about the good Doctor. How bout that torn up note he
        surreptitiously tried to piece together, and then burned in the stove rather
        than hand over to the cops.

        Not a very secure crime scene...

        Welcome aboard from JT in Cincinnati. As other 40 Whackers are aware, I
        have no doubt that she did it. It's a much better story that way.

        JT
      • Roy Nickerson
        The torn note that Bowen chucked in the fire has always tantalized me. One of the policemen was able to make out the name Emma , written in pencil on it.
        Message 3 of 17 , Jan 10, 2000
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          The torn note that Bowen chucked in the fire has always tantalized me. One
          of the policemen
          was able to make out the name "Emma", written in pencil on it. Bowen's
          clumsy attempt to
          explain it away as being about his daughter "going through somewhere" has
          always made me
          suspect that it was incriminating to Lizzie in some way.

          Thanks for the welcome, JT. I believe she did it, also. But I suspect she
          had a lot of folks covering
          her butt for her with things that they knew but never told!
          RN

          ----------
          > From: Jeffrey K. Tesch <jktesch@...>
          > To: 40 Whacks <40Whacks@onelist.com>
          > Subject: [40Whacks] Dr. Bowen
          > Date: Sunday, January 09, 2000 4:04 PM
          >
          > From: "Jeffrey K. Tesch" <jktesch@...>
          >
          > Liked Roy's comments about the good Doctor. How bout that torn up note
          he
          > surreptitiously tried to piece together, and then burned in the stove
          rather
          > than hand over to the cops.
          >
          > Not a very secure crime scene...
          >
          > Welcome aboard from JT in Cincinnati. As other 40 Whackers are aware, I
          > have no doubt that she did it. It's a much better story that way.
          >
          > JT
          >
          >
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        • Patsy751@xxx.xxx
          My head is spinning. I thought that everyone is the group had run out of talk...... I would like to add my two cents about Morse. I always felt too that he
          Message 4 of 17 , Jan 10, 2000
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            My head is spinning. I thought that everyone is the group had run out of
            talk......
            I would like to add my two cents about Morse. I always felt too that he was
            overprepared with his alibi....so many details that we wouldn't normally
            notice like the number of the car he was riding etc. Plus, I always thought
            that his reaction to returning to the home was bizarre...sitting in the back
            yard and only after a period of time asking what was going on. Considering
            the chaos that was going on around him, his lack of immediate curiosity seems
            very strange.

            Patsy751
          • Roy Nickerson
            Don t you love it? The guy who can t remember what he had for breakfast remembers the number of the horse car he rode in, the number on the conductor s cap,
            Message 5 of 17 , Jan 10, 2000
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              Don't you love it? The guy who can't remember what he had for breakfast
              remembers the number
              of the horse car he rode in, the number on the conductor's cap, and the
              names of six Irish priests
              who were on the car!!!
              At the very least, it would seem that Uncle John left the house that
              morning knowing he had better
              be able to give a good account of himself. And upon returning to the house,
              he seems oblivious to the
              fact that half of Fall River is in and about the place!! It's just one of
              a number of haunting mysteries that
              make this case so damnably interesting, even after 107 years!

              I think I will soon try to raise a discussion about Andrew's Prince Albert
              coat.........and why it was folded up
              and tucked beneath the pillow as he lay dead on the sitting room sofa. Give
              it some thought!
              Roy
              ----------
              > From: Patsy751@...
              > To: 40Whacks@onelist.com
              > Subject: Re: [40Whacks] Dr. Bowen
              > Date: Monday, January 10, 2000 5:12 PM
              >
              > From: Patsy751@...
              >
              > My head is spinning. I thought that everyone is the group had run out of

              > talk......
              > I would like to add my two cents about Morse. I always felt too that he
              was
              > overprepared with his alibi....so many details that we wouldn't normally
              > notice like the number of the car he was riding etc. Plus, I always
              thought
              > that his reaction to returning to the home was bizarre...sitting in the
              back
              > yard and only after a period of time asking what was going on.
              Considering
              > the chaos that was going on around him, his lack of immediate curiosity
              seems
              > very strange.
              >
              > Patsy751
              >
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            • Ynr Chyldz Wyld
              From: Jeffrey K. Tesch ... rather ... Most accounts have him telling an officer (when questioned what he was doing) that it was a
              Message 6 of 17 , Jan 10, 2000
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                From: "Jeffrey K. Tesch" <jktesch@...>
                > Liked Roy's comments about the good Doctor. How bout that torn up note he
                > surreptitiously tried to piece together, and then burned in the stove
                rather
                > than hand over to the cops.

                Most accounts have him telling an officer (when questioned what he was
                doing)
                that it was a note to (from? about?) Emma...but one of the police
                transcripts
                I read has him saying that it was a note to (from? about?) his (Bowen's)
                daughter...the only time the fact that Bowen had a daughter is mentioned,
                and
                in this context, exceedingly strange...

                What was it that involved Bowen's own daughter that he wished so strongly to
                hide?


                > Welcome aboard from JT in Cincinnati. As other 40 Whackers are aware, I
                > have no doubt that she did it. It's a much better story that way.

                I think I must be the only one alive to be truly open-minded about the
                case...
                I'm quite willing to accept that Lizzie Borden did the deed solely by
                herself
                ...but I'm also quite willing to accept any and all alternative theories
                that
                have anything to substantiate their claims.... ;-)


                June
              • Ynr Chyldz Wyld
                From: Roy Nickerson ... Or perhaps incriminating to Bowen s daughter, or perhaps Bowen himself...? ... And the big question is WHY? Why
                Message 7 of 17 , Jan 10, 2000
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                  From: "Roy Nickerson" <servo@...>
                  > The torn note that Bowen chucked in the fire has always tantalized me. One
                  > of the policemen
                  > was able to make out the name "Emma", written in pencil on it. Bowen's
                  > clumsy attempt to
                  > explain it away as being about his daughter "going through somewhere" has
                  > always made me
                  > suspect that it was incriminating to Lizzie in some way.

                  Or perhaps incriminating to Bowen's daughter, or perhaps Bowen himself...?


                  > Thanks for the welcome, JT. I believe she did it, also. But I suspect she
                  > had a lot of folks covering
                  > her butt for her with things that they knew but never told!

                  And the big question is WHY? Why would they all cover for Lizzie, if they
                  themselves weren't also involved?


                  June
                • Autumn
                  Hi All! The Prince Albert coat, I think Lizzie put it under Andrew s head. I don t agree with everything that Victoria Lincoln puts forth in her book, but I
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jan 10, 2000
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                    Hi All!

                    The Prince Albert coat, I think Lizzie put it under
                    Andrew's head. I don't agree with everything that
                    Victoria Lincoln puts forth in her book, but I think
                    she was right about that coat. I think Lizzie took it
                    from the place that Andrew always hung it, put it on
                    backwards to cover her dress and also used the door as
                    cover. From there she killed Andrew, escaped getting
                    covered in his blood, afterward she took it off,
                    folded it and placed it beneath his head. A very smart
                    move because blood all over that coat made perfect
                    sense under Andrew's head and Lizzie remained free
                    from Andrew's blood.

                    Autumn
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                  • Ynr Chyldz Wyld
                    From: Autumn ... Except how could she escape getting blood on herself when she lifted his head to put the folded coat under it?
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jan 11, 2000
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                      From: "Autumn" <autumnlite@...>
                      > The Prince Albert coat, I think Lizzie put it under
                      > Andrew's head. I don't agree with everything that
                      > Victoria Lincoln puts forth in her book, but I think
                      > she was right about that coat. I think Lizzie took it
                      > from the place that Andrew always hung it, put it on
                      > backwards to cover her dress and also used the door as
                      > cover. From there she killed Andrew, escaped getting
                      > covered in his blood, afterward she took it off,
                      > folded it and placed it beneath his head. A very smart
                      > move because blood all over that coat made perfect
                      > sense under Andrew's head and Lizzie remained free
                      > from Andrew's blood.

                      Except how could she escape getting blood on herself
                      when she lifted his head to put the folded coat under it?

                      Remember, Andrew was hacked so badly his eye was hanging
                      out...hard to imagine how ANYONE could lift that head to
                      slide something under it without getting blood on their
                      hands and at least on the sleeves of their garment...


                      June
                    • PatriciaLu@aol.com
                      In a message dated 1/11/00 2:41:20 AM Eastern Standard Time, autumnlite@yahoo.com writes:
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jan 11, 2000
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                        In a message dated 1/11/00 2:41:20 AM Eastern Standard Time,
                        autumnlite@... writes:

                        << put it on
                        backwards to cover her dress and also used the door as
                        cover. >>
                      • PatriciaLu@xxx.xxx
                        In a message dated 1/11/00 2:41:20 AM Eastern Standard Time, autumnlite@yahoo.com writes:
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jan 11, 2000
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                          In a message dated 1/11/00 2:41:20 AM Eastern Standard Time,
                          autumnlite@... writes:

                          << put it on
                          backwards to cover her dress and also used the door as
                          cover. >>

                          I find this the most chilling detail of the murder... when you just picture
                          this in your mind.

                          Pat
                        • Roy Nickerson
                          The coat went under the pillow, rather that Andrew s head.........thus, Lizzie need not have touched him.
                          Message 12 of 17 , Jan 11, 2000
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                            The coat went under the pillow, rather that Andrew's
                            head.........thus, Lizzie need not have touched him.

                            ----------
                            > From: Ynr Chyldz Wyld <revcoal@...>
                            > To: 40Whacks@onelist.com
                            > Subject: Re: [40Whacks] Dr. Bowen
                            > Date: Tuesday, January 11, 2000 8:29 AM
                            >
                            > From: "Ynr Chyldz Wyld" <revcoal@...>
                            >
                            > From: "Autumn" <autumnlite@...>
                            > > The Prince Albert coat, I think Lizzie put it under
                            > > Andrew's head. I don't agree with everything that
                            > > Victoria Lincoln puts forth in her book, but I think
                            > > she was right about that coat. I think Lizzie took it
                            > > from the place that Andrew always hung it, put it on
                            > > backwards to cover her dress and also used the door as
                            > > cover. From there she killed Andrew, escaped getting
                            > > covered in his blood, afterward she took it off,
                            > > folded it and placed it beneath his head. A very smart
                            > > move because blood all over that coat made perfect
                            > > sense under Andrew's head and Lizzie remained free
                            > > from Andrew's blood.
                            >
                            > Except how could she escape getting blood on herself
                            > when she lifted his head to put the folded coat under it?
                            >
                            > Remember, Andrew was hacked so badly his eye was hanging
                            > out...hard to imagine how ANYONE could lift that head to
                            > slide something under it without getting blood on their
                            > hands and at least on the sleeves of their garment...
                            >
                            >
                            > June
                            >
                            >
                            >
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                          • Patsy751@xxx.xxx
                            Speaking of Andrew s eyeball hanging out....ya think Miss Lizzie would have been just a tad bit more hysterical after seeing that instead of calmly talking to
                            Message 13 of 17 , Jan 11, 2000
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                              Speaking of Andrew's eyeball hanging out....ya think Miss Lizzie would have
                              been just a tad bit more hysterical after seeing that instead of calmly
                              talking to Mrs. Churchill about the weather first and then asking her to come
                              over!

                              Patsy751
                            • Ynr Chyldz Wyld
                              From: Roy Nickerson ... Oh, come on now! The guy s eyeball was hanging out, for gosh sakes! Just trying to slide a neatly folded waistcoat
                              Message 14 of 17 , Jan 11, 2000
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                                From: "Roy Nickerson" <servo@...>
                                > The coat went under the pillow, rather that Andrew's
                                > head.........thus, Lizzie need not have touched him.

                                Oh, come on now! The guy's eyeball was hanging out, for
                                gosh sakes! Just trying to slide a neatly folded waistcoat
                                under the pillow should have gotten the person attempting
                                to do so covered with blood...


                                June
                              • Ynr Chyldz Wyld
                                From: ... have ... come ... One would think... And yet, having had a not-by-natural-means cause of death to one of my own close family
                                Message 15 of 17 , Jan 11, 2000
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                                  From: <Patsy751@...>
                                  > Speaking of Andrew's eyeball hanging out....ya think Miss Lizzie would
                                  have
                                  > been just a tad bit more hysterical after seeing that instead of calmly
                                  > talking to Mrs. Churchill about the weather first and then asking her to
                                  come
                                  > over!

                                  One would think...

                                  And yet, having had a not-by-natural-means cause of death to one of my own
                                  close family members, I can tell you that initial reactions to trauma like
                                  that
                                  vary, and hysteria is not necessarily the first reaction....


                                  June
                                • Autumn
                                  Ops, yes that is right, the coat went under the pillow that was under Andrew s head. Of couse, that would lessen the blood that Lizzie would have come in
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Jan 12, 2000
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                                    Ops, yes that is right, the coat went under the pillow
                                    that was under Andrew's head. Of couse, that would
                                    lessen the blood that Lizzie would have come in
                                    contact with. Lizzie also might have had her sleeves
                                    pushed up and if she got blood on her hands, she would
                                    have washed them. It has been commented on that her
                                    hands were very clean.

                                    Autumn
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                                  • Jeffrey K. Tesch
                                    Patsy: Bowen was a bit of a sticky wicket, eh? That furtive business with the torn up note bugs me. Why wasn t he forced to give a better explanation for
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Aug 2 7:09 PM
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                                      Patsy:

                                      Bowen was a bit of a sticky wicket, eh?

                                      That furtive business with the torn up note bugs me. Why wasn't he forced
                                      to give a better explanation for destroying possible evidence and usurping
                                      the police investigation?

                                      He's a cameo conspirator. Knowing his sedentary neighbor well, Bowen is
                                      instantly skeptical about the "sick note". He asks both Lizzie and Alice
                                      Russell about it, but doesn't accept their idea that Abby burned it in the
                                      stove. He goes looking and finds it.

                                      Whether he saw a connection to the crime (property transfer?) or just a
                                      strange coincidence, his predisposition to believe in Lizzie's innocence
                                      caused him to destroy evidence.

                                      If I could find out what the note really said...

                                      I'd blow this case wide open........................

                                      JT
                                      (from Cincy)

                                      P.S. I think Pete Rose killed them.
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