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Re: FW: [40Whacks] Jay

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  • Muriel Arnold
    Hi Pat: I do have a tendency for asking odd questions. About 20 years ago, I mentioned that my Aunt Eva, divorced with one kid, had moved only twice in her
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 8, 2004
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      Hi Pat:
      I do have a tendency for asking odd questions.  About 20 years ago, I mentioned that my Aunt Eva, divorced with one kid, had moved only twice in her lifetime.  OH BOY:
      By the time my mother, brother, and two sisters got through, I learned my Aunt Eva had moved 22 times!!!!  She hasn't moved in 25 years now, seeing she's been buried that long.
      Hey Pat, I guess I got to JT.  He must have spent some little time hunting for all Lizzie's meanderings.  Isn't it amazing what can happen when you use the wrong word?
       
      After all these years, 20 of them now, I've never even liked Lizzie.  JT is turning her into a person with a life of her own.    Knowlton is the one responsible for turning this simple murder case into a quagmire.  He had the help of always ready to please Bridget.
       
      As for McHenry, what he didn't uncover, he invented.  As they say:  "Say something often enough and people will start believing you."
      Muriel
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2004 1:20 PM
      Subject: Re: FW: [40Whacks] Jay

      In a message dated 2/8/2004 2:18:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, jtesch@... writes:

      ***This statement is LUDICROUS!  Moving to Maplecroft changed everything!

      I have to preface this by saying that I love having Muriel on this list because she always keeps the conversation lively. That's sincere. However, my eyes popped out when I read Muriel's statement about Lizzie's lifestyle not changing, so I gotta say Amen to what JT wrote.
       
      Pat


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    • PatriciaLu@aol.com
      In a message dated 2/8/2004 10:22:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, muriela@cox-internet.com writes: After all these years, 20 of them now, I ve never even liked
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 8, 2004
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        In a message dated 2/8/2004 10:22:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, muriela@... writes:
        After all these years, 20 of them now, I've never even liked Lizzie. 
        I was thinking about what JT said about this group being on life support and what else we could talk about. It reminded me of a discussion we had here a few years back about which movie stars would play the different roles.
         
        I say Tyne Daly for Mrs Borden, and Angelina Jolie for Lizzie.
         
        Pat
      • Patsy751@aol.com
        Hi Group, First of all, Jay, sound like you were hit with everything but the kitchen sink. Stay well! Pat, your idea for Angelina Jolie to play Lizzie is
        Message 3 of 13 , Feb 9, 2004
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          Hi Group,
          First of all, Jay, sound like you were hit with everything but the kitchen sink.  Stay well!

          Pat, your idea for Angelina Jolie to play Lizzie is absolutlely brilliant!  Put a little bun at the nape of her neck with some ringlets surrounding her face and eyes that scream "Yeah, I can be crazy".

          I am so happy that the group has resurrected!

          Patsy
        • Jay Selberg
          Angelina would only work for me if she fattens up a bit. She is thin, Lizzie wasn t. (That was my complaint about Elizabeth Montgomery s portrayal, too. And
          Message 4 of 13 , Feb 9, 2004
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            Angelina would only work for me if she fattens up a bit.  She is thin, Lizzie wasn't.  (That was my complaint about Elizabeth Montgomery's portrayal, too.  And I liked that movie!)
             
            Jay
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 3:46 PM
            Subject: Re: FW: [40Whacks] Jay

            Hi Group,
            First of all, Jay, sound like you were hit with everything but the kitchen sink.  Stay well!

            Pat, your idea for Angelina Jolie to play Lizzie is absolutlely brilliant!  Put a little bun at the nape of her neck with some ringlets surrounding her face and eyes that scream "Yeah, I can be crazy".

            I am so happy that the group has resurrected!

            Patsy


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          • Jeffrey Tesch
            Kathleen wrote: According to the psychiatrist s argument, the locked doors and front stairs represent the aftermath of incest -Lizzie protecting herselves when
            Message 5 of 13 , Feb 11, 2004
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              Kathleen wrote:

               

               

              According to the psychiatrist’s argument, the locked doors and front stairs represent the aftermath of incest –Lizzie protecting herselves when she got old enough to refuse to participate.  To the psychiatrist, the set-up of the house suggested a previous pattern of incest, not a current one. 

               

               

              ***Thanks, Kathleen – I was going to mention this.  Other interesting points in the article include:

               

                          ***files from child protection agencies in the late 19th century revealed that 36% of reported incest occurred in households where the mother was absent.

                          ***victims dealing with repressed memories would become neurotic without knowing why, similar to the confused feelings Lizzie reported to Alice Russell the night before the murders. 

                          ***incest victims who kill their abusers don’t feel remorse for their actions.  They are “forced to numb their real emotions for so long, by the time of the parricide they have no tears.”

               

               

              Why did Lizzie kill?  This is the heart of the Borden case – what combination of factors made her take the axe…

               

              JT

               

              •  
            • Patsy751@aol.com
              Message 6 of 13 , Feb 12, 2004
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              • Patsy751@aol.com
                Hi, Okay, it always seemed to me that Lizzie s rage was primarily directed at Abby, and that she had to kill her father (with much less enthusiasm) because he
                Message 7 of 13 , Feb 12, 2004
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                  Hi,
                  Okay, it always seemed to me that Lizzie's rage was primarily directed at Abby, and that she had to kill her father (with much less enthusiasm) because he would know that she did the murder.

                  So, if that is the case, did she kill Abby because of the money/resentment thing or was she angry at Abby as her surrogate mother for not protecting her against her abuser?

                  Just asking.

                  Patsy
                • Jeffrey Tesch
                  Muriel wrote: This business of locked doors, repressed memories causing her to be neurotic eaxplained Lizzie s confused conversation with Alice the night
                  Message 8 of 13 , Feb 13, 2004
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                    Muriel wrote:

                    This business of locked doors, repressed memories causing her to be neurotic eaxplained Lizzie's confused conversation with Alice the night before the murders, would hold water only IF Lizzie WAS guilty.

                     

                    **Since she was guilty, then it obviously holds water…

                     

                    Hiram Harrington called Lizzie domineering, hateful and spiteful. 

                     

                    ***I’ll accept Harrington’s opinion over yours.  His wife Lurana (Andrews’s sister) and the Whitehead’s had a unique perspective on the Lizzie/Abby dynamic.  When the murders happened, they knew the who and the why.

                     

                    JT 

                     

                     

                     




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