Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Maplecroft musings

Expand Messages
  • Jeffrey Tesch
    When Agnes DeMille asked Victoria Lincoln if the children who lived near Maplecroft ever shouted the rude rhyme (Lizzie Borden took and axe.) in Lizbeth s
    Message 1 of 5 , Aug 2, 2003
    • 0 Attachment

      When Agnes DeMille asked Victoria Lincoln if the children who lived near Maplecroft ever “shouted the rude rhyme  (Lizzie Borden took and axe…) in Lizbeth’s presence, Victoria Lincoln said.  “Oh no, it would have been two dangerous.”

       

      Found a letter from Russell Lake, whose family lived across the street from Maplecroft.  Young Russell and his mother visited Lizzie often, and the lad was permitted to romp through her home.  He says most other children “treated Miss Borden and her house like she was a witch…and the house was haunted.”  Mrs. Lake and Lizzie eventually had a major falling out, and the visits stopped.  Wonder what that was about? 

       

      Young Ellis Waring used to cut through the Maplecroft back yard on his way to school.  He said Lizzie often yelled,  Get out of my yard!”  He also said “the grocery man was scared to go in –he left groceries in the back.”

       

      Edith Coolidge Hart lived up on the Hill near Lizzie.  And she raised an interesting point about the crime.  “Self preservation is a basic law even with the lowest animals.  I believe it was the reason she murdered her father.  With little education or the simple rules of living she did not have the capacity to cover the tracks of the first murder…”

       

      QUESTION TO GROUP:  If Lizzie had only murdered Abby, would Andrew have protected her?  And if not, would Lizzie have been convicted on just the one count of murder? 

       

      JT

       

       

    • Patsy751@aol.com
      Hi JT, Off the cuff and from the gut, my initial reaction is that Andrew would not have given her up . I base my reasoning on the fact that Andrew stopped
      Message 2 of 5 , Aug 3, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi JT,
        Off the cuff and from the gut, my initial reaction is that Andrew would not have "given her up".  I base my reasoning on the fact that Andrew stopped the investigation of the house robbery, but clearly made a statement by locking his bedroom and putting the key on the mantle.   He did not want the disgrace of having it discovered that Lizzie had committed the theft.  So I can only imagine the horror that would go through his mind if he thought that people knew Lizzie killed his wife.

        I think he would have protected her (or himself) from that, but would sanction personally sanction her in a way that we can only dream about.

        Patsy
      • Muriel Arnold
        Hi JT: Found what you said about Ellis Waring interesting. Was he the son of Dwight Waring, the son-in-law of Andrew Jennings (Lizzie s lawyer)? Did Ellis do
        Message 3 of 5 , Aug 3, 2003
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi JT:
          Found what you said about Ellis Waring interesting.  Was he the son of Dwight Waring, the son-in-law of Andrew Jennings (Lizzie's lawyer)?
          Did Ellis do it deliberately to antagonize Lizzie?  Did Lizzie yell at him because she knew what his reaction would be?  Had it become a game between them?
           
          <Edith Coolidge Hart saying Lizzie's killing her father was an act of self preservation>
          <...With little education or the simple rules of living she did not have the capacity to cover the tracks of the first murder.>
           
          Now this makes more sense than what authors in the past came up with.  And yes, Andrew Borden would have protected her.  He would have seen to it that she was properly defended by hiring an experienced trial lawyer before a week was out.  He would not have sat back and allowed Knowlton to railroad Lizzie or allow the police to stop Hanscom from seeing Lizzie at will.
           
          As for the simple rules of living she did not have - that won't wash.  She was too involved in different charitable orginizations not to know the rules.  Lizzie wasn't stupid, just bull-headed.  She allowed the police to run the show, with Knowlton at their head.  BIG MISTAKE, as Knowlton was determined to find her guilty.
           
          JT, what I would like would be for you to give us your three to five best reasons why you consider Lizzie to be guilty.  I would do my best to counter them.  If I can't, I'll admit it and score one for you.
           
          Muriel
           
           
          Muriel Arnold
           
          Author of  Lizzie Borden Hands of Time
          For more information
          muriela@...
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2003 9:36 PM
          Subject: [40Whacks] Maplecroft musings

          When Agnes DeMille asked Victoria Lincoln if the children who lived near Maplecroft ever “shouted the rude rhyme  (Lizzie Borden took and axe…) in Lizbeth’s presence, Victoria Lincoln said.  “Oh no, it would have been two dangerous.”

           

          Found a letter from Russell Lake, whose family lived across the street from Maplecroft.  Young Russell and his mother visited Lizzie often, and the lad was permitted to romp through her home.  He says most other children “treated Miss Borden and her house like she was a witch…and the house was haunted.”  Mrs. Lake and Lizzie eventually had a major falling out, and the visits stopped.  Wonder what that was about? 

           

          Young Ellis Waring used to cut through the Maplecroft back yard on his way to school.  He said Lizzie often yelled,  Get out of my yard!”  He also said “the grocery man was scared to go in –he left groceries in the back.”

           

          Edith Coolidge Hart lived up on the Hill near Lizzie.  And she raised an interesting point about the crime.  “Self preservation is a basic law even with the lowest animals.  I believe it was the reason she murdered her father.  With little education or the simple rules of living she did not have the capacity to cover the tracks of the first murder…”

           

          QUESTION TO GROUP:  If Lizzie had only murdered Abby, would Andrew have protected her?  And if not, would Lizzie have been convicted on just the one count of murder? 

           

          JT

           

           



          ---WHODUNIT???---

          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
        • Muriel Arnold
          Hi Patsy: You are making me wish I had not gotten rid of nearly all my articles on the Borden case. They filled three large notebooks, not counting the
          Message 4 of 5 , Aug 3, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi Patsy:
            You are making me wish I had not gotten rid of nearly all my articles on the Borden case.  They filled three large notebooks, not counting the information I'd received from Iowa, Montana and New Hampshire.
             
            Andrew Borden definitely would have protected Lizzie.  After all, Abby was no longer an asset and more of a liability which he could have done without.
             
            It does make one wonder if he would have been a match for Knowlton.  Would Knowlton have tackled those Andrew would have used to stop him?  Liked or disliked, Andrew Borden had a lot of clout behind him.
            Muriel
             
             
            Muriel Arnold
             
            Author of  Lizzie Borden Hands of Time
            For more information
            muriela@...
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 10:33 AM
            Subject: Re: [40Whacks] Maplecroft musings

            Hi JT,
            Off the cuff and from the gut, my initial reaction is that Andrew would not have "given her up".  I base my reasoning on the fact that Andrew stopped the investigation of the house robbery, but clearly made a statement by locking his bedroom and putting the key on the mantle.   He did not want the disgrace of having it discovered that Lizzie had committed the theft.  So I can only imagine the horror that would go through his mind if he thought that people knew Lizzie killed his wife.

            I think he would have protected her (or himself) from that, but would sanction personally sanction her in a way that we can only dream about.

            Patsy


            ---WHODUNIT???---

            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          • Muriel Arnold
            Hi Patsy: I forgot to mention the theft of June of 1891. I d read somewhere where the cop who had investigated this theft had convinced Andrew Borden to drop
            Message 5 of 5 , Aug 3, 2003
            • 0 Attachment
              Hi Patsy:
              I forgot to mention the theft of June of 1891.  I'd read somewhere where the cop who had investigated this theft had convinced Andrew Borden to drop the case.  This information did not come from some author's book.  It is on record somewhere.
              Muriel
               
               
              Muriel Arnold
               
              Author of  Lizzie Borden Hands of Time
              For more information
              muriela@...
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 10:33 AM
              Subject: Re: [40Whacks] Maplecroft musings

              Hi JT,
              Off the cuff and from the gut, my initial reaction is that Andrew would not have "given her up".  I base my reasoning on the fact that Andrew stopped the investigation of the house robbery, but clearly made a statement by locking his bedroom and putting the key on the mantle.   He did not want the disgrace of having it discovered that Lizzie had committed the theft.  So I can only imagine the horror that would go through his mind if he thought that people knew Lizzie killed his wife.

              I think he would have protected her (or himself) from that, but would sanction personally sanction her in a way that we can only dream about.

              Patsy


              ---WHODUNIT???---

              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.