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Re: [40Whacks] Lizzie:

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  • PatriciaLu@aol.com
    In a message dated 5/12/2003 4:58:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ... This is what I wondered as well. If Lizzie had doubts about Bridget, she d turn on her in a
    Message 1 of 14 , May 12 2:29 PM
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      In a message dated 5/12/2003 4:58:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Patsy751@... writes:


      Once her father was dead why wouldn't Lizzie implicate Bridget?  Why wasn't Lizzie pointing a finger at Bridget?



      This is what I wondered as well. If Lizzie had doubts about Bridget, she'd turn on her in a New York minute.

      Pat in NY
    • Muriel Arnold
      Hi Pat: When Lizzie returned from the barn and found her father, she ran to the backstairs and yelled for Bridget to come down. Sure enough, Bridget showed up
      Message 2 of 14 , May 12 9:44 PM
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        Hi Pat:
         
        When Lizzie returned from the barn and found her father, she ran to the backstairs and yelled for Bridget to come down.  Sure enough, Bridget showed up at the top of the first flight of stairs, so Lizzie had no reason to even think Bridget might have done the killings.
         
        Bridget's versions:
        1.  Lizzie had to call once or twice before she heard her because her bedroom door was closed.
        2.  Bridget claimed she came right down.
        Question:
        How did Bridget know Lizzie had to call more than once?  Lizzie never said she had.
        My conclusion was that Bridget never made it up to her room.  She was on the second floor landing and had to wait a few moments before showing up.  #1 &2 were lies.
        Muriel
         
        Muriel Arnold
         
        Author of  Lizzie Borden Hands of Time
        For more information
        muriela@...
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 4:29 PM
        Subject: Re: [40Whacks] Lizzie:

        In a message dated 5/12/2003 4:58:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Patsy751@... writes:


        Once her father was dead why wouldn't Lizzie implicate Bridget?  Why wasn't Lizzie pointing a finger at Bridget?



        This is what I wondered as well. If Lizzie had doubts about Bridget, she'd turn on her in a New York minute.

        Pat in NY


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      • Muriel Arnold
        Hi Patsy: Lizzie was in the cellar while Mrs. Borden was being killed. Second Street was a busy street and noises were constant with wagons passing over the
        Message 3 of 14 , May 12 10:02 PM
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          Hi Patsy:
          Lizzie was in the cellar while Mrs. Borden was being killed.  Second Street was a busy street and noises were constant with wagons passing over the dirt road.  Even Mrs. Churchill testified to it being noisy.
          Anyway, when Lizzie came back up, she took some clean clothes with her.  She passed her father in the sitting room.  He was reading the Providence Journal.  If he was not concerned about what happened upstairs, why should Lizzie have been?
           
          <Let's assume that Lizzie knew that Bridget killed Mrs. B. but was okay with that because she hated her anyway.>
          That won't wash.  There is no way Lizzie would have covered for Bridget.  Lizzie was not noted for brillantcy.  You have to remember that Bridget spent very little time at the Borden house after the murders.
           
          And, exactly one week after the murders, Lizzie was arrested.  Bridget had already been gone from the Borden house for good two days before.  The following day, August 12, Lizzie left the Fall River Police Station and was sent to Taunton, where she remained for the following nine months.
           
          Lizzie had the misfortune for relying on the police to solve the case.  I don't care how many people who claimed she hired the best lawyers money could buy for her defense.  She was poorly defended.
           
          If it hadn't been for Judge Justin Dewey, the trial could have ended in a guilty or hung jury.  Dewey should have collected the $25,000 she paid the defense.  Dewey made sure Knowlton would not get away with his insinuations and declarations of having proved her guilt when the defense had proved otherwise.
          Muriel
          Muriel Arnold
           
          Author of  Lizzie Borden Hands of Time
          For more information
          muriela@...
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 3:46 PM
          Subject: Re: [40Whacks] Lizzie:

          Dear Muriel,
          Okay....for the moment, I will assume that Bridget did the murders.  Where was Lizzie when Mrs. Borden was killed?   She must have heard the commotion, and if she did, why didn't she scream her head off.  Let's assume that Lizzie knew that Bridget killed Mrs. B. but  was okay with that because she hated her anyway.  Once her father was dead why wouldn't Lizzie implicate Bridget?  Why wasn't Lizzie pointing a finger at Bridget?

          Patsy 


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        • Muriel Arnold
          Hi Pat: I must disagree with you about Bridget and Mrs. Borden liking each other. Why would Lizzie imply to Mrs. Livermore of having done favors for her
          Message 4 of 14 , May 12 10:29 PM
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            Hi Pat:
            I must disagree with you about Bridget and Mrs. Borden liking each other.  Why would Lizzie imply to Mrs. Livermore of having done favors for her [Bridget}?
            Bridget was one hell of an adroit liar. 
            What Bridget claimed she did between 10:55 and 11:00 o'clock, where she came out with 12 reasons for that five minute time span, defies comprehension.
            Hell the reporters accused her of having a faulty memory
            They also said that she had an angelic face and when she spoke, she spoke as though the was telling the unvarnished truth.
             
            Why did she get away with it?  Simple.  She was Knowlton's star witness and she aimed to please.  When reporters located her and informed her of Lizzie's arrest, Bridget replied that it was about time they arrested Lizzie Borden, though she did not believe her to be guilty.  Yeah, right.  Another lie.
            On August 15th, Dr. Bowen asked reporters why Bridget had not been arrested also.  Why she saying things to protect herself?  That alone told me that Dr. Bowen suspected Bridget.  For damn sure he knew she was lying.
            Muriel
            Muriel Arnold
             
            Author of  Lizzie Borden Hands of Time
            For more information
            muriela@...
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2003 12:23 PM
            Subject: Re: [40Whacks] Lizzie:

            In a message dated 5/11/2003 12:29:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Patsy751@... writes:


            Maybe (and this is a huge maybe) I could be convinced that she kept quiet about some incrimminating evidence against Lizzie (hence her almost deathbed confession), but that's it.


            I agree with Patsy on this. I feel as if I have an open-mind about the case, but I have just never come upon anything that really sways me. Ironically, there's part of me that *wants* to be swayed -- it would make the whole case more interesting in a way. I agree with what Patsy said about Bridget's motive. I get the feeling as if Bridget and Mrs. Borden liked each other, worked together... Bridget does not seem like a "disgruntled employee" -- or the 19th century equivalent of the person who comes to the workplace with a gun.

            Having said that, I do think Bridget may have known something or seen something either that day or later on. Montana is a whole long way from Massachusetts -- even today and her choice of Montana always struck me as "get me as far away from here as possible."

            Pat in NY


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          • Muriel Arnold
            Hi Patsy: I claim Bridget had no motive. Her hot temper was the cause. Had Mrs. Borden agreed to postpone the window washing, she would not have been killed.
            Message 5 of 14 , May 12 10:39 PM
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              Hi Patsy:
              I claim Bridget had no motive.  Her hot temper was the cause.  Had Mrs. Borden agreed to postpone the window washing, she would not have been killed.  Bridget did not care one bit for Mrs. Arnold, thus she covered this by claiming she had wanted to return to Ireland but had stayed because "Mrs. Borden would have been lonely without her."
               
              Please don't tell me that if Bridget was unhappy working there, she could easily have quit and found herself another job.  She had it made in the shade and was getting $3 a week for doing little compared to most maids who had kids to look after and who were getting paid $2.50 a week with one day off a week.  She was getting 1 1/2 days off.
              Muriel
               
               
              Muriel Arnold
               
              Author of  Lizzie Borden Hands of Time
              For more information
              muriela@...
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2003 11:27 AM
              Subject: Re: [40Whacks] Lizzie:

              Dear Muriel,
              I have a really hard time wrapping my mind around Brigitte's guilt simply because I cannot accept that she had any credible motive.  It is just too difficult for me to swallow that she was upset about the window washing.  From what I can see, she had relatively little responsibility relative to what other maids had to do at that time.  She didn't have to bother with the upstairs.  Mrs. Broden took care of her own bedroom, and helped her with the downstairs.  As it was Mrs. Borden was dusting and taking care of the guest bedroom on the day she died!  So Brigitte didn't have the feeling that the family was reclining on the sofa scarfing grapes ordering her around  while she slaved away!

              Maybe (and this is a huge maybe) I could be convinced that she kept quiet about some incrimminating evidence against Lizzie (hence her almost deathbed confession), but that's it.

              Patsy


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