Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: Emma and the Carriage

Expand Messages
  • David L. Radtke
    I have Spiering s book. Let me look it over. I know Emmas visit with her friends is well documented. But it is also well documented that neither Lizzie or
    Message 1 of 21 , Jul 27, 1999
      I have Spiering's book. Let me look it over.

      I know Emmas visit with her friends is well documented. But it is also
      well
      documented that neither Lizzie or Emma rarely ever went away for any
      length of
      time. This is one of the reasons I find Emma's entire trip suspicious.

      I also look to the evidence of a conversation between Lizzie and Emma
      while
      Lizzie was in jail. Lizzie blurting out something to the effect of,
      "You are
      just going to let me take the blame for this" (or something like
      that). It
      just seams to me that these girls were in cahoots.

      Another interesting piece of evidence to me that I never even knew about
      until I
      visited the house. And that was the lack off blood near either
      victim.
      Despite the savage attack on both of them, very little blood was left at
      the
      scene of the crime. The tour guide to the house indicated that some
      believe the
      victim's must have been poised first. (This would have slowed down
      their blood
      flow) Is this mentioned in any of the books, because I don't remember
      it if it
      was.

      And to answer another question that came up, yes the house is now a Bed
      and
      Breakfast. I didn't spend the night, but would have loved to. You
      can even
      sleep in the room where Abby was killed.

      And you can by souvenirs. Let's face it, not many people can say they
      are the
      proud owners of a baseball cap with Lizzie Picture embroidered on the
      front.
      (But I can!)

      -Dave


      Tango9311@... wrote:

      > From: Tango9311@...
      >
      > In a message dated 7/25/99 7:19:00 AM EST, dave2000@... writes:
      >
      > << I really think that Emma did it and Lizzie was in on it. >>
      >
      > I've also read Lizzie by Spiering. At first, I disagreed with his theory that
      > Emma committed the murders, simply because her visit to Fairhaven was
      > documented. To me, it seemed unlikely that she could have killed Abby
      > and Andrew since she was staying with friends some distance away.
      >
      > But... in his book, doesn't Spiering mention "proof" that Emma had hired a
      > carriage that day? A buggy was seen parked along Second Street on the
      > day of the murders. It's been awhile since I've read this book, so my memory
      > could use some refreshing.
      >
      > Here are my questions: Surely the police would have checked Emma's alibi
      > quite thoroughly, wouldn't they? If Emma had actually rented a carriage,
      > wouldn't this have been a fairly easy fact to discover? If Spiering's claim
      > is correct and Emma did hire a carriage on the morning of the murders,
      > what follow-up was done in the investigation? Was it determined where she
      > went and at what time?
      >
      > Since I can't completely accept Lizzie as the culprit, I'm willing to
      > re-examine
      > all of the various theories about the crime. Does someone have Spiering's
      > book?
      > I'd like to know what his "proof" was about Emma and the carriage.
      >
      > Thanks!
      >
      > Linn
      >
      > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
      >
      > ONElist users: YOU can win a $100 gift certificate to Amazon.com.
      > http://www.onelist.com
      > Check out the FRIENDS & FAMILY program to find out how. See homepage.
      >
      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > ---WHODUNIT???---

      --
      "to be nobody but yourself - in a world which is doing its best,
      night and day, to make you everybody else - means to fight the
      hardest battle which any human being can fight; and never stop
      fighting."

      E.E. CUMMINGS
    • Patsy751@xxx.xxx
      Hi Everyone, I just wanted to pass along that I got a letter from the Fall River Historical Society to announce the release of a brand new Lizzie book past
      Message 2 of 21 , Jul 27, 1999
        Hi Everyone,
        I just wanted to pass along that I got a letter from the Fall River
        Historical Society to announce the release of a brand new "Lizzie" book past
        and present. I would be happy to pass along all the particulars because you
        can be put on a reserve list to receive a copy which will be released on July
        30.

        Patsy751
      • ElisabethH@xxx.xxx
        Yes,
        Message 3 of 21 , Jul 27, 1999
          <<I would be happy to pass along all the particulars because you can be put
          on a reserve list to receive a copy which will be released on July 30.>>

          Yes, please pass along the information! A new Lizzie book is always an
          event!!!

          Elisabeth
        • PatriciaLu@xxx.xxx
          In a message dated 7/27/1999 4:38:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dave2000@fuse.net writes:
          Message 4 of 21 , Jul 27, 1999
            In a message dated 7/27/1999 4:38:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
            dave2000@... writes:

            << The tour guide to the house indicated that some
            believe the
            victim's must have been poised first. >>

            I've never heard this before -- I think you meant "posed" not "poised",
            right? Are you saying that Abby was lying on the floor? And Andrew was lying
            on the sofa as we see him in that picture with one foot on the floor?

            The lack of blood has always interested me too...

            Patricia in NYCity
          • Effra@xxx.xxx
            In a message dated 7/27/99 3:31:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ElisabethH@aol.com writes: Yes, please pass along the information! A new Lizzie book is
            Message 5 of 21 , Jul 27, 1999
              In a message dated 7/27/99 3:31:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
              ElisabethH@... writes:

              << <>

              Yes, please pass along the information! A new Lizzie book is always an
              event!!!
              >>

              Yes, I would also like this information. Thanks, Kathryn
            • Melanie Amodeo
              Patsy, Yes, please do send the info about the book. Thanks, Melanie ... From: Patsy751@aol.com To: 40Whacks@onelist.com
              Message 6 of 21 , Jul 27, 1999
                Patsy,

                Yes, please do send the info about the book.

                Thanks,

                Melanie
                -----Original Message-----
                From: Patsy751@... <Patsy751@...>
                To: 40Whacks@onelist.com <40Whacks@onelist.com>
                Date: Tuesday, July 27, 1999 3:24 PM
                Subject: Re: [40Whacks] Emma and the Carriage


                >From: Patsy751@...
                >
                >Hi Everyone,
                >I just wanted to pass along that I got a letter from the Fall River
                >Historical Society to announce the release of a brand new "Lizzie" book
                past
                >and present. I would be happy to pass along all the particulars because
                you
                >can be put on a reserve list to receive a copy which will be released on
                July
                >30.
                >
                >Patsy751
                >
                >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
                >
                >Show your ONElist SPIRIT!
                >http://www.onelist.com/store/tshirts.html
                >With a new ONElist SHIRT available through our website.
                >
                >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                >---WHODUNIT???---
              • Ghostdance@xxxxx.xxx
                YES, YES, YES!!!! I am very interested in reserving a copy, it is really exciting to have a new book to read! Autumn
                Message 7 of 21 , Jul 27, 1999
                  YES, YES, YES!!!! I am very interested in reserving a copy, it is really
                  exciting to have a new book to read!

                  Autumn
                • Melanie Amodeo
                  Dave, This is so cool! Thanks for sharing the info about LIzzie s house. Can you tell us the price of staying there and also how long is the tour? I d love
                  Message 8 of 21 , Jul 27, 1999
                    Dave,

                    This is so cool! Thanks for sharing the info about LIzzie's house. Can you
                    tell us the price of staying there and also how long is the tour? I'd love
                    to sleep there!

                    Melanie
                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: David L. Radtke <dave2000@...>
                    To: 40Whacks@onelist.com <40Whacks@onelist.com>
                    Date: Tuesday, July 27, 1999 3:40 PM
                    Subject: Re: [40Whacks] Emma and the Carriage


                    >From: "David L. Radtke" <dave2000@...>
                    >
                    >I have Spiering's book. Let me look it over.
                    >
                    >I know Emmas visit with her friends is well documented. But it is also
                    >well
                    >documented that neither Lizzie or Emma rarely ever went away for any
                    >length of
                    >time. This is one of the reasons I find Emma's entire trip suspicious.
                    >
                    >I also look to the evidence of a conversation between Lizzie and Emma
                    >while
                    >Lizzie was in jail. Lizzie blurting out something to the effect of,
                    >"You are
                    >just going to let me take the blame for this" (or something like
                    >that). It
                    >just seams to me that these girls were in cahoots.
                    >
                    >Another interesting piece of evidence to me that I never even knew about
                    >until I
                    >visited the house. And that was the lack off blood near either
                    >victim.
                    >Despite the savage attack on both of them, very little blood was left at
                    >the
                    >scene of the crime. The tour guide to the house indicated that some
                    >believe the
                    >victim's must have been poised first. (This would have slowed down
                    >their blood
                    >flow) Is this mentioned in any of the books, because I don't remember
                    >it if it
                    >was.
                    >
                    >And to answer another question that came up, yes the house is now a Bed
                    >and
                    >Breakfast. I didn't spend the night, but would have loved to. You
                    >can even
                    >sleep in the room where Abby was killed.
                    >
                    >And you can by souvenirs. Let's face it, not many people can say they
                    >are the
                    >proud owners of a baseball cap with Lizzie Picture embroidered on the
                    >front.
                    >(But I can!)
                    >
                    >-Dave
                    >
                    >
                    >Tango9311@... wrote:
                    >
                    >> From: Tango9311@...
                    >>
                    >> In a message dated 7/25/99 7:19:00 AM EST, dave2000@... writes:
                    >>
                    >> << I really think that Emma did it and Lizzie was in on it. >>
                    >>
                    >> I've also read Lizzie by Spiering. At first, I disagreed with his theory
                    that
                    >> Emma committed the murders, simply because her visit to Fairhaven was
                    >> documented. To me, it seemed unlikely that she could have killed Abby
                    >> and Andrew since she was staying with friends some distance away.
                    >>
                    >> But... in his book, doesn't Spiering mention "proof" that Emma had hired
                    a
                    >> carriage that day? A buggy was seen parked along Second Street on the
                    >> day of the murders. It's been awhile since I've read this book, so my
                    memory
                    >> could use some refreshing.
                    >>
                    >> Here are my questions: Surely the police would have checked Emma's alibi
                    >> quite thoroughly, wouldn't they? If Emma had actually rented a carriage,
                    >> wouldn't this have been a fairly easy fact to discover? If Spiering's
                    claim
                    >> is correct and Emma did hire a carriage on the morning of the murders,
                    >> what follow-up was done in the investigation? Was it determined where
                    she
                    >> went and at what time?
                    >>
                    >> Since I can't completely accept Lizzie as the culprit, I'm willing to
                    >> re-examine
                    >> all of the various theories about the crime. Does someone have
                    Spiering's
                    >> book?
                    >> I'd like to know what his "proof" was about Emma and the carriage.
                    >>
                    >> Thanks!
                    >>
                    >> Linn
                    >>
                    >> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
                    >>
                    >> ONElist users: YOU can win a $100 gift certificate to Amazon.com.
                    >> http://www.onelist.com
                    >> Check out the FRIENDS & FAMILY program to find out how. See homepage.
                    >>
                    >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    >> ---WHODUNIT???---
                    >
                    >--
                    >"to be nobody but yourself - in a world which is doing its best,
                    >night and day, to make you everybody else - means to fight the
                    >hardest battle which any human being can fight; and never stop
                    >fighting."
                    >
                    >E.E. CUMMINGS
                    >
                    >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
                    >
                    >Having difficulty getting "in synch" with list members?
                    >http://www.onelist.com
                    >Try ONElist's Shared Calendar to organize events, meetings and more!
                    >
                    >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    >---WHODUNIT???---
                  • Genna25777@xxx.xxx
                    In a message dated 7/27/99 3:22:03 PM EST, Patsy751@aol.com writes:
                    Message 9 of 21 , Jul 27, 1999
                      In a message dated 7/27/99 3:22:03 PM EST, Patsy751@... writes:

                      << I just wanted to pass along that I got a letter from the Fall River
                      Historical Society to announce the release of a brand new "Lizzie" book past
                      and present. I would be happy to pass along all the particulars because you
                      can be put on a reserve list to receive a copy which will be released on
                      July
                      30. >>

                      A new book! Yes!!! Please pass the info along. Maybe we can all read the book
                      and discuss it as we go. Also, would somebody please pass along the address
                      for the Lizzie Borden Quarterly again? I had it, but lost it. :( Thanks
                    • David L. Radtke
                      Ack! I m sorry. I meant to type poisoned! So once again, the tour guide said some believed Abby and Andrew were POISONED before they were killed. The
                      Message 10 of 21 , Jul 27, 1999
                        Ack! I'm sorry. I meant to type "poisoned!"

                        So once again, the tour guide said some believed Abby and Andrew were POISONED
                        before they were killed. The POISON would have slowed the blood flow down.

                        I apologies for the confusion. Even with a spell check, I can still make
                        mistakes!

                        -Dave


                        PatriciaLu@... wrote:

                        > From: PatriciaLu@...
                        >
                        > In a message dated 7/27/1999 4:38:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                        > dave2000@... writes:
                        >
                        > << The tour guide to the house indicated that some
                        > believe the
                        > victim's must have been poised first. >>
                        >
                        > I've never heard this before -- I think you meant "posed" not "poised",
                        > right? Are you saying that Abby was lying on the floor? And Andrew was lying
                        > on the sofa as we see him in that picture with one foot on the floor?
                        >
                        > The lack of blood has always interested me too...
                        >
                        > Patricia in NYCity
                        >
                        > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
                        >
                        > GET WHAT YOU DESERVE! A NextCard Platinum VISA: DOUBLE Rewards points,
                        > NO annual fee & rates as low as 9.9 percent FIXED APR.
                        > Apply online today! http://www.onelist.com/ad/nextcard1
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        > ---WHODUNIT???---

                        --
                        "to be nobody but yourself - in a world which is doing its best,
                        night and day, to make you everybody else - means to fight the
                        hardest battle which any human being can fight; and never stop fighting."

                        E.E. CUMMINGS
                      • Anecitacas@xxx.xxx
                        In a message dated 7/27/99 4:38:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dave2000@fuse.net writes:
                        Message 11 of 21 , Jul 28, 1999
                          In a message dated 7/27/99 4:38:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                          dave2000@... writes:

                          << nd to answer another question that came up, yes the house is now a Bed
                          and
                          Breakfast. I didn't spend the night, but would have loved to. You
                          can even
                          sleep in the room where Abby was killed.
                          >>


                          How do I find out more about staying there?? Please email me thru the list
                          or privately, I have been searching for this info for about 6 months!!
                          Anet
                        • Patsy751@xxx.xxx
                          Dear Dave, Well you have a cap, and I have a T-shirt! Patsy
                          Message 12 of 21 , Jul 28, 1999
                            Dear Dave,
                            Well you have a cap, and I have a T-shirt!
                            Patsy
                          • Patsy751@xxx.xxx
                            Dear Group, Here is the information about the new book. I will quote a bit from the letter I received. This letter is to inform you of an important new
                            Message 13 of 21 , Jul 28, 1999
                              Dear Group,
                              Here is the information about the new book. I will quote a bit from the
                              letter I received.

                              This letter is to inform you of an important new publication soon to be
                              available on the Borden Case. Lizzie Borden Past & Present, by Fall River
                              native and Historical Society member Leonard Rebello, represents a
                              significant body of research, has been years in the making, and is a must for
                              any Borden library.

                              To quote the author, Lizzie Borden, P & P, takes the reader on a documented
                              journey to the people, places, events, literature and interpretive works
                              prior to the murders and continues to the present. This is the first time
                              that a book have been made available that provides access to the new and
                              extensive information, literature, and facts surrounding the Borden case. It
                              connects the past with the present oftentimes clairfying, proving and on
                              occasion, disproving that which has been in print or has been perceived as
                              true.

                              This oversized hardbound volume of 600 pages is printed on acid-free stock
                              and contains a plethora of information on the Borden case and related
                              subjects, among the published works, newspaper articles, Borden trivia, and
                              interpretive works in the media. This reference book, teeming with
                              information, is fully indexed, illustrated, and features a distinctive blue
                              and cream dust jacket on which is reproduced a contemporary courtroom sketch
                              on Miss Borden.

                              In order to be among the first to own a copy of this limited edition, the
                              Historical Society is accepting prepaid reservations in advance of the
                              anticipated July 30 release date. Orders may be placed in our museum shop,
                              or by returning the form below with payment to the Society. (The form is
                              your name, address, city, state, and telephone number)

                              You must send $49.95 for each book. Mass residents must add $2.50 sales tax,
                              and Shipping/handling fee is $5.50. The address of the Fall River Historical
                              Society is 451 Rock Street, Fall River, MA 02720.

                              I passed along most of the letter because I thought that the details were in
                              order considering that it is not a cheap book. Also there was a note that
                              the author would be there for a book signing on July 30 from 9 to 12 noon.

                              Patsy751
                            • Ghostdance@xxxxx.xxx
                              Hi, Well you have a cap, and I have a T-shirt! ... I haven t been to the B & B but, I have a tote bag with a picture of Lizzie on it!!!! I ordered it from
                              Message 14 of 21 , Jul 28, 1999
                                Hi,

                                "Well you have a cap, and I have a T-shirt!"
                                -----


                                I haven't been to the B & B but, I have a tote bag with a picture of
                                Lizzie on it!!!! I ordered it from the Fall River History society during
                                the 100 yr anniversary.

                                Autumn
                              • Ghostdance@xxxxx.xxx
                                Hi! Patsy, THANK YOU for the information on the book!!!! Autumn
                                Message 15 of 21 , Jul 28, 1999
                                  Hi!

                                  Patsy, THANK YOU for the information on the book!!!!

                                  Autumn
                                • Effra@xxx.xxx
                                  In a message dated 7/28/99 6:26:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Patsy751@aol.com writes:
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Jul 29, 1999
                                    In a message dated 7/28/99 6:26:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Patsy751@...
                                    writes:

                                    << Dear Dave,
                                    Well you have a cap, and I have a T-shirt!
                                    Patsy
                                    >>

                                    And I have a bumpersticker on my Honda!!!

                                    "Fall River, Massachusetts
                                    Home of Lizzie Borden"

                                    -- Kathryn
                                  • ElisabethH@xxx.xxx
                                    In a message dated 7/28/99 10:09:21 PM, you wrote: I have the tote bag too! Don t you love the funny
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Jul 29, 1999
                                      In a message dated 7/28/99 10:09:21 PM, you wrote:

                                      <<I have a tote bag with a picture of
                                      Lizzie on it!!!!>>

                                      I have the tote bag too! Don't you love the funny looks you get from people
                                      when you carry it!

                                      Elisabeth
                                    • Patsy751@xxx.xxx
                                      Dear Autumn, You are very welcome. I ordered my copy today! Patsy
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Jul 29, 1999
                                        Dear Autumn,
                                        You are very welcome. I ordered my copy today!

                                        Patsy
                                      • Ghostdance@xxxxx.xxx
                                        LOL, yeah I love those funny looks!!! People look and then look again, I guess they can t believe someone would really have a bag with Lizzie on it. So far I
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Jul 30, 1999
                                          LOL, yeah I love those funny looks!!! People look and then look again, I
                                          guess they can't believe someone would really have a bag with Lizzie on
                                          it. So far I have not gotten any "flack" but I always wonder if someone
                                          is going to give me a hard time about glamourizing a murderess or
                                          something like that. I try and use discretion about where I carry it!
                                          :-)

                                          Autumn
                                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.