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  • kahclok2000
    Hello Everyone; Long time ,no see!!! I just finished reading Victoria Lincoln s book A Private Disgrace; Lizzie Borden By Daylight, and now I fully believe
    Message 1 of 10 , Jul 8, 2002
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      Hello Everyone;
      Long time ,no see!!! I just finished reading Victoria Lincoln's book
      A Private Disgrace; Lizzie Borden By Daylight, and now I fully
      believe Lizzie did the crime , based on the convincing evidence
      presented there. I read the book thoroughly, and enjoyed it so much I
      read it again!!! It was that good...In fact, I returned another book
      I received from the library, so I could concentrate solely on the
      Lizzie book!!! It's well written, well researched, and I can't say
      enough good things about it..Also, has anyone in the group ever seen
      the Taunton Jail? and is Bence's Drugstore still standing?


      Sincerely,
      Mark
    • Muriel Arnold
      Hi Mark: Called my sister in Fall River. She said she does not remember if the drugstore Bence worked for is still standing. The fire of 1928 could have
      Message 2 of 10 , Jul 23, 2002
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Mark:
        Called my sister in Fall River. She said she does not remember if the
        drugstore Bence worked for is still standing. The fire of 1928 could have
        destroyed it. I used to know who the owner was but I have forgotten what
        his name was. I seem to remember it as Smith's drugstore.
        For years my mother believed Victoria Lincoln. It took me two years to
        convince her that Lincoln was wrong. No one ever mentioned that Lizzie was
        subject to epileptic fits until Victoria Lincoln came out with this. Seems
        killing her parents cured her of this affliction.
        I was a guest speaker at the three day Lizzie Borden Conference back in 1992
        and was just about the only one who spoke in Lizzie's favor. Lizzie was no
        more guilty of those murders than I am.
        Have a great day.
        Muriel

        Muriel Arnold

        Author of Lizzie Borden Hands of Time
        For more information
        muriela@...
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: kahclok2000 <mdhiggins86@...>
        To: <40Whacks@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 9:42 PM
        Subject: [40Whacks] 40 Wacks Group Members


        > Hello Everyone;
        > Long time ,no see!!! I just finished reading Victoria Lincoln's book
        > A Private Disgrace; Lizzie Borden By Daylight, and now I fully
        > believe Lizzie did the crime , based on the convincing evidence
        > presented there. I read the book thoroughly, and enjoyed it so much I
        > read it again!!! It was that good...In fact, I returned another book
        > I received from the library, so I could concentrate solely on the
        > Lizzie book!!! It's well written, well researched, and I can't say
        > enough good things about it..Also, has anyone in the group ever seen
        > the Taunton Jail? and is Bence's Drugstore still standing?
        >
        >
        > Sincerely,
        > Mark
        >
        >
        >
        > ---WHODUNIT???---
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
      • MARIE MILLER
        so good to hear from u again,muriel.its been kinda dead on this list lately.so lets get the lizzie conversations going again.i was wondering,did emma ever give
        Message 3 of 10 , Jul 23, 2002
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          so good to hear from u again,muriel.its been kinda dead on this list lately.so lets get the lizzie conversations going again.i was wondering,did emma ever give any interviews to the press in her later years?thanks so much!dennis from toledo
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Muriel Arnold
          Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 2:20 PM
          To: 40Whacks@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [40Whacks] 40 Wacks Group Members
           
          Hi Mark:
          Called my sister in Fall River.  She said she does not remember if the
          drugstore Bence worked for is still standing.  The fire of 1928 could have
          destroyed it.  I used to know who the owner was but I have forgotten what
          his name was.  I seem to remember it as Smith's drugstore.
          For years my mother believed Victoria Lincoln.  It took me two years to
          convince her that Lincoln was wrong.  No one ever mentioned that Lizzie was
          subject to epileptic fits until Victoria Lincoln came out with this.  Seems
          killing her parents cured her of this affliction.
          I was a guest speaker at the three day Lizzie Borden Conference back in 1992
          and was just about the only one who spoke in Lizzie's favor.  Lizzie was no
          more guilty of those murders than I am.
          Have a great day.
          Muriel

          Muriel Arnold

          Author of  Lizzie Borden Hands of Time
          For more information
          muriela@...
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: kahclok2000 <mdhiggins86@...>
          To: <40Whacks@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 9:42 PM
          Subject: [40Whacks] 40 Wacks Group Members


          > Hello Everyone;
          > Long time ,no see!!! I just finished reading Victoria Lincoln's book
          > A Private Disgrace; Lizzie Borden By Daylight, and now I fully
          > believe Lizzie did  the crime , based on the convincing evidence
          > presented there. I read the book thoroughly, and enjoyed it so much I
          > read it again!!! It was that good...In fact, I returned another book
          > I received from the library, so I could concentrate solely on the
          > Lizzie book!!! It's well written, well researched, and I can't say
          > enough good things about it..Also, has anyone in the group ever seen
          > the Taunton Jail? and is Bence's Drugstore still standing?
          >
          >
          > Sincerely,
          > Mark
          >
          >
          >
          > ---WHODUNIT???---
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >


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        • Muriel Arnold
          Hi Dennis I ve read of but one interview which Emma gave back around 1912. She told reporters they d paid the lawyers $25,000 and that she still believed
          Message 4 of 10 , Jul 23, 2002
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi Dennis
            I've read of but one interview which Emma gave back around 1912.  She told reporters they'd paid the lawyers $25,000 and that she still believed Lizzie to have been completely innocent of the murders.
            I no longer have that article as I got rid of a suitcase full of Lizzie Borden stuff some three years ago.
            Hey Tesch
            Have you gone to Fall River yet?  If not, be sure to make that expirement about not being able to hear what goes on in the next room if the door between the rooms are closed.  Blame Knowlton for that remark that nothing occurred in  one part of the house that was not heard in another.
            Take care, Muriel
            Muriel Arnold
             
            Author of  Lizzie Borden Hands of Time
            For more information
            muriela@...
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 6:52 PM
            Subject: Re: [40Whacks] 40 Wacks Group Members

            so good to hear from u again,muriel.its been kinda dead on this list lately.so lets get the lizzie conversations going again.i was wondering,did emma ever give any interviews to the press in her later years?thanks so much!dennis from toledo
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Muriel Arnold
            Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 2:20 PM
            To: 40Whacks@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [40Whacks] 40 Wacks Group Members
             
            Hi Mark:
            Called my sister in Fall River.  She said she does not remember if the
            drugstore Bence worked for is still standing.  The fire of 1928 could have
            destroyed it.  I used to know who the owner was but I have forgotten what
            his name was.  I seem to remember it as Smith's drugstore.
            For years my mother believed Victoria Lincoln.  It took me two years to
            convince her that Lincoln was wrong.  No one ever mentioned that Lizzie was
            subject to epileptic fits until Victoria Lincoln came out with this.  Seems
            killing her parents cured her of this affliction.
            I was a guest speaker at the three day Lizzie Borden Conference back in 1992
            and was just about the only one who spoke in Lizzie's favor.  Lizzie was no
            more guilty of those murders than I am.
            Have a great day.
            Muriel

            Muriel Arnold

            Author of  Lizzie Borden Hands of Time
            For more information
            muriela@...
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: kahclok2000 <mdhiggins86@...>
            To: <40Whacks@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 9:42 PM
            Subject: [40Whacks] 40 Wacks Group Members


            > Hello Everyone;
            > Long time ,no see!!! I just finished reading Victoria Lincoln's book
            > A Private Disgrace; Lizzie Borden By Daylight, and now I fully
            > believe Lizzie did  the crime , based on the convincing evidence
            > presented there. I read the book thoroughly, and enjoyed it so much I
            > read it again!!! It was that good...In fact, I returned another book
            > I received from the library, so I could concentrate solely on the
            > Lizzie book!!! It's well written, well researched, and I can't say
            > enough good things about it..Also, has anyone in the group ever seen
            > the Taunton Jail? and is Bence's Drugstore still standing?
            >
            >
            > Sincerely,
            > Mark
            >
            >
            >
            > ---WHODUNIT???---
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >


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            Risk Free!
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          • Jeffrey K. Tesch
            Hey Arnold (it s Tesch) My Fall River trip is in limbo. But I ve been in the house twice already and conducted many expirements (?) There were workman in
            Message 5 of 10 , Jul 26, 2002
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              Hey Arnold  (it's Tesch)
               
              My Fall River trip is in limbo.  But I've been in the house twice already and conducted many expirements (?)  There were workman in the house last time doing some banging (chopping).  I could hear them in the Guest Room when I was in the cellar.
               
              Group share:
                  Watched a horrible movie the other night just for the two leads:  Elizabeth Montgomery (played Lizzie in the movie) and OJ Simpson (another killer who got away with it)were paired as police detectives!  The irony was killing me...
               
              Help.  I've got a new email address to register with 40 Whacks.  How do I do that.  My current one when cancels in two days.
               
              Jeffrey K. Tesch
              jtesch@...   new address
               
              Can somebody hook me up?
               
               
              -----Original Message-----
              From: Muriel Arnold <muriela@...>
              To: 40Whacks@yahoogroups.com <40Whacks@yahoogroups.com>
              Date: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 7:52 PM
              Subject: Re: [40Whacks] 40 Wacks Group Members

              Hi Dennis
              I've read of but one interview which Emma gave back around 1912.  She told reporters they'd paid the lawyers $25,000 and that she still believed Lizzie to have been completely innocent of the murders.
              I no longer have that article as I got rid of a suitcase full of Lizzie Borden stuff some three years ago.
              Hey Tesch
              Have you gone to Fall River yet?  If not, be sure to make that expirement about not being able to hear what goes on in the next room if the door between the rooms are closed.  Blame Knowlton for that remark that nothing occurred in  one part of the house that was not heard in another.
              Take care, Muriel
              Muriel Arnold
               
              Author of  Lizzie Borden Hands of Time
              For more information
              muriela@...
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 6:52 PM
              Subject: Re: [40Whacks] 40 Wacks Group Members

              so good to hear from u again,muriel.its been kinda dead on this list lately.so lets get the lizzie conversations going again.i was wondering,did emma ever give any interviews to the press in her later years?thanks so much!dennis from toledo
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Muriel Arnold
              Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 2:20 PM
              To: 40Whacks@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [40Whacks] 40 Wacks Group Members
               
              Hi Mark:
              Called my sister in Fall River.  She said she does not remember if the
              drugstore Bence worked for is still standing.  The fire of 1928 could have
              destroyed it.  I used to know who the owner was but I have forgotten what
              his name was.  I seem to remember it as Smith's drugstore.
              For years my mother believed Victoria Lincoln.  It took me two years to
              convince her that Lincoln was wrong.  No one ever mentioned that Lizzie was
              subject to epileptic fits until Victoria Lincoln came out with this.  Seems
              killing her parents cured her of this affliction.
              I was a guest speaker at the three day Lizzie Borden Conference back in 1992
              and was just about the only one who spoke in Lizzie's favor.  Lizzie was no
              more guilty of those murders than I am.
              Have a great day.
              Muriel

              Muriel Arnold

              Author of  Lizzie Borden Hands of Time
              For more information
              muriela@...
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: kahclok2000 <mdhiggins86@...>
              To: <40Whacks@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 9:42 PM
              Subject: [40Whacks] 40 Wacks Group Members


              > Hello Everyone;
              > Long time ,no see!!! I just finished reading Victoria Lincoln's book
              > A Private Disgrace; Lizzie Borden By Daylight, and now I fully
              > believe Lizzie did  the crime , based on the convincing evidence
              > presented there. I read the book thoroughly, and enjoyed it so much I
              > read it again!!! It was that good...In fact, I returned another book
              > I received from the library, so I could concentrate solely on the
              > Lizzie book!!! It's well written, well researched, and I can't say
              > enough good things about it..Also, has anyone in the group ever seen
              > the Taunton Jail? and is Bence's Drugstore still standing?
              >
              >
              > Sincerely,
              > Mark
              >
              >
              >
              > ---WHODUNIT???---
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >


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              Risk Free!
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              ---------------------------------------------------------------------~->

              ---WHODUNIT???---

              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




              ---WHODUNIT???---

              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


              ---WHODUNIT???---

              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
            • Muriel Arnold
              Okay Tesch: Ut s tit for tat time. You followed my expirements (experiments) with: There were workman.... while you were there. Bet one of them was a nephew
              Message 6 of 10 , Jul 27, 2002
              • 0 Attachment
                Okay Tesch:
                Ut's tit for tat time.  You followed my expirements (experiments) with:  There were workman.... while you were there.  Bet one of them was a nephew of mine when they were renovating the house.
                 
                Honest, my friend from New Hampshire was in the parlor one night and one of my sisters and I were in the sitting room.  Neither of us could hear what was going on in the other room.  Nor I did I hear the tour guide  while I was in the dining room one afternoon till she opened the door.  Like Mrs. Churchill testified, Second Street was a busy and noisy street, that at times, they found it difficult to hear themselves talk as the wagons went lumbering up or down the street.
                 Been thinking of going home but can't get my sister in Florida to go with me.  In the 1980's, we'd meet in Atlanta and fly to Providence together.  Neither one of us is afraid of flying, as last November I flew to Jacksonville, and in March of this year, she flew down here to Texas.
                 
                Did you decide Lizzie was guilty by using what Knowlting claimed as fact during his summation at the end of the trial?  I just loved Judge Dewey's charge to the jury.  He sure fixed Knowlton's wagon.  I'm glad to see someone agrees with me, that Lizzie had lousy lawyers.  Dewey did more for Lizzie in 1 1/2 hours than her three lawyers ever thought about doing.
                Take care,
                Muriel
                 
                Muriel Arnold
                 
                Author of  Lizzie Borden Hands of Time
                For more information
                muriela@...
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 10:15 PM
                Subject: Re: [40Whacks] 40 Wacks Group Members

                Hey Arnold  (it's Tesch)
                 
                My Fall River trip is in limbo.  But I've been in the house twice already and conducted many expirements (?)  There were workman in the house last time doing some banging (chopping).  I could hear them in the Guest Room when I was in the cellar.
                 
                Group share:
                    Watched a horrible movie the other night just for the two leads:  Elizabeth Montgomery (played Lizzie in the movie) and OJ Simpson (another killer who got away with it)were paired as police detectives!  The irony was killing me...
                 
                Help.  I've got a new email address to register with 40 Whacks.  How do I do that.  My current one when cancels in two days.
                 
                Jeffrey K. Tesch
                jtesch@...   new address
                 
                Can somebody hook me up?
                 
                 
                -----Original Message-----
                From: Muriel Arnold <muriela@...>
                To: 40Whacks@yahoogroups.com <40Whacks@yahoogroups.com>
                Date: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 7:52 PM
                Subject: Re: [40Whacks] 40 Wacks Group Members

                Hi Dennis
                I've read of but one interview which Emma gave back around 1912.  She told reporters they'd paid the lawyers $25,000 and that she still believed Lizzie to have been completely innocent of the murders.
                I no longer have that article as I got rid of a suitcase full of Lizzie Borden stuff some three years ago.
                Hey Tesch
                Have you gone to Fall River yet?  If not, be sure to make that expirement about not being able to hear what goes on in the next room if the door between the rooms are closed.  Blame Knowlton for that remark that nothing occurred in  one part of the house that was not heard in another.
                Take care, Muriel
                Muriel Arnold
                 
                Author of  Lizzie Borden Hands of Time
                For more information
                muriela@...
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 6:52 PM
                Subject: Re: [40Whacks] 40 Wacks Group Members

                so good to hear from u again,muriel.its been kinda dead on this list lately.so lets get the lizzie conversations going again.i was wondering,did emma ever give any interviews to the press in her later years?thanks so much!dennis from toledo
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Muriel Arnold
                Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 2:20 PM
                To: 40Whacks@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [40Whacks] 40 Wacks Group Members
                 
                Hi Mark:
                Called my sister in Fall River.  She said she does not remember if the
                drugstore Bence worked for is still standing.  The fire of 1928 could have
                destroyed it.  I used to know who the owner was but I have forgotten what
                his name was.  I seem to remember it as Smith's drugstore.
                For years my mother believed Victoria Lincoln.  It took me two years to
                convince her that Lincoln was wrong.  No one ever mentioned that Lizzie was
                subject to epileptic fits until Victoria Lincoln came out with this.  Seems
                killing her parents cured her of this affliction.
                I was a guest speaker at the three day Lizzie Borden Conference back in 1992
                and was just about the only one who spoke in Lizzie's favor.  Lizzie was no
                more guilty of those murders than I am.
                Have a great day.
                Muriel

                Muriel Arnold

                Author of  Lizzie Borden Hands of Time
                For more information
                muriela@...
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: kahclok2000 <mdhiggins86@...>
                To: <40Whacks@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 9:42 PM
                Subject: [40Whacks] 40 Wacks Group Members


                > Hello Everyone;
                > Long time ,no see!!! I just finished reading Victoria Lincoln's book
                > A Private Disgrace; Lizzie Borden By Daylight, and now I fully
                > believe Lizzie did  the crime , based on the convincing evidence
                > presented there. I read the book thoroughly, and enjoyed it so much I
                > read it again!!! It was that good...In fact, I returned another book
                > I received from the library, so I could concentrate solely on the
                > Lizzie book!!! It's well written, well researched, and I can't say
                > enough good things about it..Also, has anyone in the group ever seen
                > the Taunton Jail? and is Bence's Drugstore still standing?
                >
                >
                > Sincerely,
                > Mark
                >
                >
                >
                > ---WHODUNIT???---
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >


                ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
                Free $5 Love Reading
                Risk Free!
                http://us.click.yahoo.com/NsdPZD/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/Y2tolB/TM
                ---------------------------------------------------------------------~->

                ---WHODUNIT???---

                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




                ---WHODUNIT???---

                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


                ---WHODUNIT???---

                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


                ---WHODUNIT???---

                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
              • Jeffrey K. Tesch
                No question about it: Dewey s charge to the jury was a direct order for them to acquit. The honorable Judge Wigmore wrote a scathing rebuke of Dewey several
                Message 7 of 10 , Jul 27, 2002
                • 0 Attachment
                  No question about it:  Dewey's charge to the jury was a direct order for them to acquit.  The honorable Judge Wigmore wrote a scathing rebuke of Dewey several months after the trial.
                   
                  I decided Lizzie was guilty the same way I look at any case.  Look for a suspect with a motive/means/opportunity quotient and then pounce on inconsistent statements. 
                   
                  Lizzie gave five different answers to five different people when asked where she was when Andrew was killed.  Her story evolved from rushing in from the yard after hearing a noise to a leisurely walk in from the barn with no concern.  This was no slip of the tongue - she completely changed her story.  This is what investigators call "consciousness of guilt".
                   
                  For you to say "Lizzie is no more guilty than I" is intellectual bankruptcy.  Even someone as certain as myself will leave some wiggle room.  
                   
                  She will always be the prime suspect...
                   
                  JT
                   
                    
                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Muriel Arnold <muriela@...>
                  To: 40Whacks@yahoogroups.com <40Whacks@yahoogroups.com>
                  Date: Saturday, July 27, 2002 2:20 AM
                  Subject: Re: [40Whacks] 40 Wacks Group Members

                  Okay Tesch:
                  Ut's tit for tat time.  You followed my expirements (experiments) with:  There were workman.... while you were there.  Bet one of them was a nephew of mine when they were renovating the house.
                   
                  Honest, my friend from New Hampshire was in the parlor one night and one of my sisters and I were in the sitting room.  Neither of us could hear what was going on in the other room.  Nor I did I hear the tour guide  while I was in the dining room one afternoon till she opened the door.  Like Mrs. Churchill testified, Second Street was a busy and noisy street, that at times, they found it difficult to hear themselves talk as the wagons went lumbering up or down the street.
                   Been thinking of going home but can't get my sister in Florida to go with me.  In the 1980's, we'd meet in Atlanta and fly to Providence together.  Neither one of us is afraid of flying, as last November I flew to Jacksonville, and in March of this year, she flew down here to Texas.
                   
                  Did you decide Lizzie was guilty by using what Knowlting claimed as fact during his summation at the end of the trial?  I just loved Judge Dewey's charge to the jury.  He sure fixed Knowlton's wagon.  I'm glad to see someone agrees with me, that Lizzie had lousy lawyers.  Dewey did more for Lizzie in 1 1/2 hours than her three lawyers ever thought about doing.
                  Take care,
                  Muriel
                   
                  Muriel Arnold
                   
                  Author of  Lizzie Borden Hands of Time
                  For more information
                  muriela@...
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 10:15 PM
                  Subject: Re: [40Whacks] 40 Wacks Group Members

                  Hey Arnold  (it's Tesch)
                   
                  My Fall River trip is in limbo.  But I've been in the house twice already and conducted many expirements (?)  There were workman in the house last time doing some banging (chopping).  I could hear them in the Guest Room when I was in the cellar.
                   
                  Group share:
                      Watched a horrible movie the other night just for the two leads:  Elizabeth Montgomery (played Lizzie in the movie) and OJ Simpson (another killer who got away with it)were paired as police detectives!  The irony was killing me...
                   
                  Help.  I've got a new email address to register with 40 Whacks.  How do I do that.  My current one when cancels in two days.
                   
                  Jeffrey K. Tesch
                  jtesch@...   new address
                   
                  Can somebody hook me up?
                   
                   
                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Muriel Arnold <muriela@...>
                  To: 40Whacks@yahoogroups.com <40Whacks@yahoogroups.com>
                  Date: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 7:52 PM
                  Subject: Re: [40Whacks] 40 Wacks Group Members

                  Hi Dennis
                  I've read of but one interview which Emma gave back around 1912.  She told reporters they'd paid the lawyers $25,000 and that she still believed Lizzie to have been completely innocent of the murders.
                  I no longer have that article as I got rid of a suitcase full of Lizzie Borden stuff some three years ago.
                  Hey Tesch
                  Have you gone to Fall River yet?  If not, be sure to make that expirement about not being able to hear what goes on in the next room if the door between the rooms are closed.  Blame Knowlton for that remark that nothing occurred in  one part of the house that was not heard in another.
                  Take care, Muriel
                  Muriel Arnold
                   
                  Author of  Lizzie Borden Hands of Time
                  For more information
                  muriela@...
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 6:52 PM
                  Subject: Re: [40Whacks] 40 Wacks Group Members

                  so good to hear from u again,muriel.its been kinda dead on this list lately.so lets get the lizzie conversations going again.i was wondering,did emma ever give any interviews to the press in her later years?thanks so much!dennis from toledo
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Muriel Arnold
                  Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 2:20 PM
                  To: 40Whacks@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [40Whacks] 40 Wacks Group Members
                   
                  Hi Mark:
                  Called my sister in Fall River.  She said she does not remember if the
                  drugstore Bence worked for is still standing.  The fire of 1928 could have
                  destroyed it.  I used to know who the owner was but I have forgotten what
                  his name was.  I seem to remember it as Smith's drugstore.
                  For years my mother believed Victoria Lincoln.  It took me two years to
                  convince her that Lincoln was wrong.  No one ever mentioned that Lizzie was
                  subject to epileptic fits until Victoria Lincoln came out with this.  Seems
                  killing her parents cured her of this affliction.
                  I was a guest speaker at the three day Lizzie Borden Conference back in 1992
                  and was just about the only one who spoke in Lizzie's favor.  Lizzie was no
                  more guilty of those murders than I am.
                  Have a great day.
                  Muriel

                  Muriel Arnold

                  Author of  Lizzie Borden Hands of Time
                  For more information
                  muriela@...
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: kahclok2000 <mdhiggins86@...>
                  To: <40Whacks@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 9:42 PM
                  Subject: [40Whacks] 40 Wacks Group Members


                  > Hello Everyone;
                  > Long time ,no see!!! I just finished reading Victoria Lincoln's book
                  > A Private Disgrace; Lizzie Borden By Daylight, and now I fully
                  > believe Lizzie did  the crime , based on the convincing evidence
                  > presented there. I read the book thoroughly, and enjoyed it so much I
                  > read it again!!! It was that good...In fact, I returned another book
                  > I received from the library, so I could concentrate solely on the
                  > Lizzie book!!! It's well written, well researched, and I can't say
                  > enough good things about it..Also, has anyone in the group ever seen
                  > the Taunton Jail? and is Bence's Drugstore still standing?
                  >
                  >
                  > Sincerely,
                  > Mark
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ---WHODUNIT???---
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >


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                • Muriel Arnold
                  Hi Tesch: I know Robert Sullivan tore into Dewey for overstepping his authority and directing the jury to find Lizzie Not Guilty but, he came to his
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jul 27, 2002
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                    Hi Tesch:
                    I know Robert Sullivan tore into Dewey for overstepping his authority and directing the jury to find Lizzie Not Guilty but, he came to his conclusions after going through the trial records only.
                    As for "consciousness of guilt", my foot.
                    As Lizzie neared the house, she heard a scraping sound, came him and found her father.  She had no reason to suspect anything.  Period.  But take Bridget:
                     
                    Mr. Borden came home at 10:45.  Lizzie came doung about five minutes later, say 10:48, and talked to him for a short while.  Say time now 10:50.  Mr. Borden gets his key and goes up to his room for a minute.  Time now around 10:53 the latest.  Bridget moves into the dining room to wash those windows.
                     
                    Lizzies comes in and irons for eight or nine minutes (according to Bridget's testimony).  Time now 11:01 or 11:02, and she Bridget went up to her room at 10:55!!!  What happened to her window washing?  Bridget DID NOT wash any inside window!!! 
                    Compare this to Lizzie's version:
                    Lizzie was not sure what time her father came home, but:
                    A Mr. Timothy Sullivan, told police he'd spoken to Mr. Borden for a few minutes and saw him enter his house at 10:52.
                    Lizzie testified she helped him change coats and went directly to the barn.  It had taken her but two to three minutes.  Time now 10:55.
                    Lizzie told Dr. Bowen, Mrs. Churchill and Hiram Harrington that she was gone but for about five minutes.  Time would now be 11:00 when she sounded the alarm.
                     
                    Mrs. Churchill said she was on her way home from Hudner's meat market (a two minute walk away) when she heard the City Hall clock strike 11:00.  She had a woman visiting at her house.  That woman told reporters they'd heard the news around 11:00.
                    Anyway, Mrs. Churchill, going up Secone Street, saw Bridget running towards the Borden house.  She entered her own house, set her groceries down, saw Lizzie at the side door.  Time would now be 11:02 the latest.  She went right over.  Bridget was already gone!!!
                     
                    Please notice that Bridget testified she went up to her room at 10:55, the exact time Lizzie left the house to go to the barn.
                    Back to Bridget:
                    11:55 to 11:00
                    1.  She went up to her room and sat on her window seat and saw no one in the back yard.
                    2.  She talked to a friend on the sidewalk.  This put her back to the back yard.
                    3.  She went upstairs to finish washing her bedroom windows, begun the day before.
                    4.  She went up to her room to lie down for a few minutes.  Her back ached.  She had not removed her dress or her shoes.
                    5.  Lizzie had to call a few times, because her bedroom door was closed.
                    6.  She came down right away.
                     
                    Had Lizzie been guilty, she would have remained in the barn and force Bridget to discover her father's body.
                    Also, she would not have sounded the alarm as quickly as she did.
                    LIZZIE WAS INNOCENT.
                    Have a great day.  I still love you.  You just got my dander up.  One last thing.  When someone talks about someone else doing something, they will say five or ten minutes, not iron for eight or nine minutes, the very time she lost in notifying Miss Russell, who testified it was around 11:15 when Bridget got there.  Bridget should have gotten there (Miss Russell's house, 900 feet away), by 11:06 the latest.  Add those eight or nine minutes, and you get you 11:15.
                    End of book.
                     
                    Muriel Arnold
                     
                    Author of  Lizzie Borden Hands of Time
                    For more information
                    muriela@...
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 8:38 PM
                    Subject: Re: [40Whacks] 40 Wacks Group Members

                    No question about it:  Dewey's charge to the jury was a direct order for them to acquit.  The honorable Judge Wigmore wrote a scathing rebuke of Dewey several months after the trial.
                     
                    I decided Lizzie was guilty the same way I look at any case.  Look for a suspect with a motive/means/opportunity quotient and then pounce on inconsistent statements. 
                     
                    Lizzie gave five different answers to five different people when asked where she was when Andrew was killed.  Her story evolved from rushing in from the yard after hearing a noise to a leisurely walk in from the barn with no concern.  This was no slip of the tongue - she completely changed her story.  This is what investigators call "consciousness of guilt".
                     
                    For you to say "Lizzie is no more guilty than I" is intellectual bankruptcy.  Even someone as certain as myself will leave some wiggle room.  
                     
                    She will always be the prime suspect...
                     
                    JT
                     
                      
                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Muriel Arnold <muriela@...>
                    To: 40Whacks@yahoogroups.com <40Whacks@yahoogroups.com>
                    Date: Saturday, July 27, 2002 2:20 AM
                    Subject: Re: [40Whacks] 40 Wacks Group Members

                    Okay Tesch:
                    Ut's tit for tat time.  You followed my expirements (experiments) with:  There were workman.... while you were there.  Bet one of them was a nephew of mine when they were renovating the house.
                     
                    Honest, my friend from New Hampshire was in the parlor one night and one of my sisters and I were in the sitting room.  Neither of us could hear what was going on in the other room.  Nor I did I hear the tour guide  while I was in the dining room one afternoon till she opened the door.  Like Mrs. Churchill testified, Second Street was a busy and noisy street, that at times, they found it difficult to hear themselves talk as the wagons went lumbering up or down the street.
                     Been thinking of going home but can't get my sister in Florida to go with me.  In the 1980's, we'd meet in Atlanta and fly to Providence together.  Neither one of us is afraid of flying, as last November I flew to Jacksonville, and in March of this year, she flew down here to Texas.
                     
                    Did you decide Lizzie was guilty by using what Knowlting claimed as fact during his summation at the end of the trial?  I just loved Judge Dewey's charge to the jury.  He sure fixed Knowlton's wagon.  I'm glad to see someone agrees with me, that Lizzie had lousy lawyers.  Dewey did more for Lizzie in 1 1/2 hours than her three lawyers ever thought about doing.
                    Take care,
                    Muriel
                     
                    Muriel Arnold
                     
                    Author of  Lizzie Borden Hands of Time
                    For more information
                    muriela@...
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 10:15 PM
                    Subject: Re: [40Whacks] 40 Wacks Group Members

                    Hey Arnold  (it's Tesch)
                     
                    My Fall River trip is in limbo.  But I've been in the house twice already and conducted many expirements (?)  There were workman in the house last time doing some banging (chopping).  I could hear them in the Guest Room when I was in the cellar.
                     
                    Group share:
                        Watched a horrible movie the other night just for the two leads:  Elizabeth Montgomery (played Lizzie in the movie) and OJ Simpson (another killer who got away with it)were paired as police detectives!  The irony was killing me...
                     
                    Help.  I've got a new email address to register with 40 Whacks.  How do I do that.  My current one when cancels in two days.
                     
                    Jeffrey K. Tesch
                    jtesch@...   new address
                     
                    Can somebody hook me up?
                     
                     
                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Muriel Arnold <muriela@...>
                    To: 40Whacks@yahoogroups.com <40Whacks@yahoogroups.com>
                    Date: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 7:52 PM
                    Subject: Re: [40Whacks] 40 Wacks Group Members

                    Hi Dennis
                    I've read of but one interview which Emma gave back around 1912.  She told reporters they'd paid the lawyers $25,000 and that she still believed Lizzie to have been completely innocent of the murders.
                    I no longer have that article as I got rid of a suitcase full of Lizzie Borden stuff some three years ago.
                    Hey Tesch
                    Have you gone to Fall River yet?  If not, be sure to make that expirement about not being able to hear what goes on in the next room if the door between the rooms are closed.  Blame Knowlton for that remark that nothing occurred in  one part of the house that was not heard in another.
                    Take care, Muriel
                    Muriel Arnold
                     
                    Author of  Lizzie Borden Hands of Time
                    For more information
                    muriela@...
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 6:52 PM
                    Subject: Re: [40Whacks] 40 Wacks Group Members

                    so good to hear from u again,muriel.its been kinda dead on this list lately.so lets get the lizzie conversations going again.i was wondering,did emma ever give any interviews to the press in her later years?thanks so much!dennis from toledo
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Muriel Arnold
                    Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 2:20 PM
                    To: 40Whacks@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [40Whacks] 40 Wacks Group Members
                     
                    Hi Mark:
                    Called my sister in Fall River.  She said she does not remember if the
                    drugstore Bence worked for is still standing.  The fire of 1928 could have
                    destroyed it.  I used to know who the owner was but I have forgotten what
                    his name was.  I seem to remember it as Smith's drugstore.
                    For years my mother believed Victoria Lincoln.  It took me two years to
                    convince her that Lincoln was wrong.  No one ever mentioned that Lizzie was
                    subject to epileptic fits until Victoria Lincoln came out with this.  Seems
                    killing her parents cured her of this affliction.
                    I was a guest speaker at the three day Lizzie Borden Conference back in 1992
                    and was just about the only one who spoke in Lizzie's favor.  Lizzie was no
                    more guilty of those murders than I am.
                    Have a great day.
                    Muriel

                    Muriel Arnold

                    Author of  Lizzie Borden Hands of Time
                    For more information
                    muriela@...
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: kahclok2000 <mdhiggins86@...>
                    To: <40Whacks@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 9:42 PM
                    Subject: [40Whacks] 40 Wacks Group Members


                    > Hello Everyone;
                    > Long time ,no see!!! I just finished reading Victoria Lincoln's book
                    > A Private Disgrace; Lizzie Borden By Daylight, and now I fully
                    > believe Lizzie did  the crime , based on the convincing evidence
                    > presented there. I read the book thoroughly, and enjoyed it so much I
                    > read it again!!! It was that good...In fact, I returned another book
                    > I received from the library, so I could concentrate solely on the
                    > Lizzie book!!! It's well written, well researched, and I can't say
                    > enough good things about it..Also, has anyone in the group ever seen
                    > the Taunton Jail? and is Bence's Drugstore still standing?
                    >
                    >
                    > Sincerely,
                    > Mark
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ---WHODUNIT???---
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >


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                  • Patsy751@aol.com
                    To Add To J.T s list: Why did Lizzie not turn over the correct dress she was wearing on the day of the murders? Patsy
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jul 29, 2002
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                      To Add To J.T's list:  Why did Lizzie not turn over the correct dress she was wearing on the day of the murders?

                      Patsy
                    • Mystic Rose
                      Hi Every One, First of all please accept my apologies for the Off Topic post. However, this is something that I feel so strongly about as my best friend
                      Message 10 of 10 , Sep 6, 2002
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                        Hi Every One,

                        First of all please accept my apologies for the "Off Topic" post.  However, this is something that I feel so strongly about as my best friend lost her Uncle at the Pentagon and another of my friends is a Doctor working in NYC in the identification of the remains.

                        As the 1 Year Anniversary approaches for the tragedy to our country I would like to ask you to visit my 9-11 Tribute Site.

                        http://www.nunnie.com/tribute.html

                        Right after the tragedy to our country I created a Web Site so that we, the people, could send "Paper" cards and letters of support and encouragement to the Firemen, Policemen, Search and Rescue Dog Teams, Port Authority, Fire/Police/Emergency Dispatchers, Hospitals, Local Unions, Schools, Medical Examiners, etc at the WTC in New York. The Web Site lists the STREET addresses of all the the above New York City, Washington DC and Pennsylvania so that we can send "REAL PAPER" cards and letters by US Mail to the workers there to give them encouragement and show our support.

                        I created this site because after the Oklahoma City Bombing the Firemen, Policemen and other Volunteers spoke of how much they appreciated all of the cards and letters of support they received from the American public. Many told of coming from the recovery site exhausted and dejected and finding hundreds of cards. They spoke of how they would sit and read them while resting before going back to work. Each and every one of them expressed how those cards uplifted their spirits and renewed their hope. Those cards helped to give them the strength to tackle the horrible job ahead of them.

                        The Americans that have worked and are still working in this horrible situation could still really use our support and encouragement right now. So many are being very badly affected by this and these cards and letters will really help.

                        I would like to ask you to visit this site and PLEASE send out some cards to these wonderful people. Let them know that we are still thinking of them and that we thank them for all they have done in the last year. There have already been a couple suicides as a result of this tragedy. These people could really use some lifting of their spirits.

                        Thank you in advance to all of you who send out cards or letters and all of you who pass this on. I know these people are most appreciative as I have received several letters and cards of thanks back from the agencies as well as private letters from some of the Firemen and Policemen after sending out a Christmas Card to each and every address on my site. I intend on trying to send out a Thank You card to all the addresses again this coming week. :)

                        Please pass this URL on to people on your E:Mail lists. The more people this goes to the more cards will go out in support of these truly heroic people.

                        The URL is:

                        http://www.nunnie.com/tribute.html

                        Wishing You All The Best!!!!!

                        Sending You :) :) :) From "Montana, USA"

                        Mystic Rose
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