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Re: [30MDG] PSK ?

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  • Bob N3PPH
    You will find by far more BPSK31 signals than QPSK31. A page you may want to check out just to see and hear many of the different modes
    Message 1 of 6 , May 2, 2011
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      You will find by far more BPSK31 signals than QPSK31. A page you may want to check out just to see and hear many of the different modes http://www.w1hkj.com/FldigiHelp-3.20/Modes/index.htm.
      73,
      Bob N3PPH

      On 5/2/2011 10:23 AM, Bernie wrote:
       

      As you will see, I am quite new to digital. One question I have is what is the difference between QPSK and BPSK. I use HRD and DM780 and when I open it up, how do I know which one to choose. Please excuse the "dumb" question but I have been confused by the choice.

      73 de Bernie - W8NBC
      SKCC#7783, 30MDG#3936

    • Andy obrien
      And while on the subject of QPSK, here is an old article about PSK31 QPSK that I wrote around 2000 for the Logger32 help files, it includes quotes from Peter
      Message 2 of 6 , May 2, 2011
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        And while on the subject of QPSK, here is an old article about PSK31
        QPSK that I wrote around 2000 for the Logger32 help files, it
        includes quotes from Peter Martinez that he granted permission for me
        to use .

        Andy K3UK



        QPSK (Quaternary Phase Shift Keying) Operation
        Andrew J. O'Brien, KB2EOQ

        QPSK is referred to as an error-correcting PSK mode. Strictly
        speaking, it is not error-correcting in the traditional sense, but
        we'll
        leave that for another discussion. You will find it very useful in
        copying very weak signals. You will also discover that it is used
        less than BPSK.
        The usual convention among QPSK'ers is to use BPSK to establish a QSO
        and then switch to QPSK You will rarely find someone
        calling CQ in QPSK mode. Some radio amateurs will switch to QPSK if a
        BPSK QSO with weak signals is producing poor copy.
        PSK veterans will point out, however, that while QPSK outperforms BPSK
        when weak signals are the issue, QPSK will perform no
        better than BPSK if noise is the signal limiting condition.
        In the ancient, early days of PSK31, in the last century, QPSK was
        used as the mode of choice for some PSK nets, but that does
        appear to be the case in the 21st century.
        .
        Tuning a QPSK Signal
        snip....

        QPSK can perform better than BPSK when band conditions are poor due to
        polar flutter. At such times you may be able to get
        copy from a QPSK signal even though the "cross" in the tuning window
        is poorly formed.
        Note: QPSK requires that BOTH stations in the QSO be using the same
        sideband! While this is not important for BPSK QSOs, it
        vital when using QPSK.

        QPSK-Reversed
        BPSK is demodulated the same way whether you are on upper or lower
        sideband. This is not true for QPSK, which operates
        like RTTY. You must shift the signal in a way that the decoder expects
        or it will not decode. In the case of QPSK, this leads to
        problems with standards, since the mode is so new.
        In actual practice, most hams appear to be operating BPSK using AFSK
        and upper sideband. This means that, when they switch
        QPSK (without reversing), they must be decoded by the other station
        using upper sideband and QPSK (without reversing).
        However, the standard of RTTY operation is lower sideband, and this
        means that most hams, operating as just mentioned, are
        operating QPSK-reverse, based on the RTTY standard.
        What this really means is that, when you and another station decide to
        switch to QPSK, if you do not know whether that station is
        using upper or lower sideband, there is a chance that you will not
        decode that station. If you click again on the mode pane, it will
        switch from QPSK to QPSK-reverse, and you should begin to copy.
        One trick is to set all three Rx windows on the signal to be copied,
        set one aux window at QPSK and the other at QPSK-reverse.
        When you see which Aux window starts to print readable copy, switch
        your main Rx window to that mode and you can then

        So What Is QPSK? How QPSK Got Its Name
        Peter, G3PLX, says in an article entitled "PSK-31, A new
        radio-teletype mode with a traditional philosophy," says that he
        called it
        "quadrature polarity reversal keying" (which of course would have come
        out as QPRK), but that everyone else calls it quaternary
        phase-shift keying (QPSK). It is an error-correcting mode that relies
        on four phase-shifts rather than two, to create the basic
        scheme.

        Peter Martinez' (G3PLX) Description of QPSK
        The QPSK mode used in PSK31 takes the binary data-stream, at the point
        where it would otherwise go direct to the BPSK
        modulator, and feeds that through a 5-bit shift-register. A logic
        operation then forms the parity function of the 1st, 2nd, and 5th
        stages, and another forms the parity function of the 1st, 3rd, and
        5th, giving two bit-streams at the same 31.25 bps rate as the
        original data. These two bits form a binary number, the four values of
        which are mapped to the four possible phase-shifts in the
        QPSK modulation. Thus a single data-bit from the source results in a
        5-bit-long predictable sequence of 90-degree and 180
        phase-shifts, interleaved with those of following and preceding bits.
        In the receiver, a Viterbi decoder is used to keep track of all 32
        possible combinations of guesses at the transmitted datastream,
        a running total of how well the received pattern of phase-shifts
        matches each guess. The clever thing about the Viterbi decoder is
        that it can be sure that if it throws out the worst 16 guesses before
        it receives the next signal (which doubles the number of
        to 32 again), it can never get it wrong, and after about 20 more
        signals, it can be pretty certain that its guess 20 signals ago was
        right. The snag is that it can only output its best guess after a
        delay of 20 signals, or 640mS in the case of PSK31. Longer Viterbi
        decoders are possible, but the amount of computation doubles at each
        extra signal delay, and for PSK31, which is used for live
        QSOs, the delay would be too long.
        More Facts to Consider About QPSK
        The relationship between BPSK and QPSK is that both have the same
        bandwidth, but that QPSK uses that bandwidth for two
        signals, shifted-from each other by 90 degrees. The extra signal is
        used to transmit redundant information for error-correction.
        reduces the signal-to-noise ratio for QPSK by 3 dB, in comparison to
        BPSK. The expectation is that the error-correction will more
        than make up for this difference. The results are not in, and one goal
        of current PSK31 activity is to evaluate and compare BPSK
        QPSK, to determine the situations in which each method is superior.
        According to Peter, BPSK should be superior under conditions of
        ordinary noise (white noise or random noise) but that under
        conditions of fading or real-life interference (as contrasted with
        random white noise), QPSK may be superior. More evaluation is
        needed.
        For a good introduction see NB6Z's excellent discussion of QPSK at
        http://www.teleport.com/~nb6z/psk31.htm.
        *Peter Martinez has granted Logger32 permission to use his above description


        On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 10:30 AM, Bob N3PPH <rsheskin@...> wrote:
         

        You will find by far more BPSK31 signals than QPSK31. A page you may want to check out just to see and hear many of the different modes http://www.w1hkj.com/FldigiHelp-3.20/Modes/index.htm.

        73,
        Bob N3PPH

        On 5/2/2011 10:23 AM, Bernie wrote:
         

        As you will see, I am quite new to digital. One question I have is what is the difference between QPSK and BPSK. I use HRD and DM780 and when I open it up, how do I know which one to choose. Please excuse the "dumb" question but I have been confused by the choice.

        73 de Bernie - W8NBC
        SKCC#7783, 30MDG#3936


      • Bernie Hildebrand
        Andy Thank you for the very understandable description. Your help is very much appreciated. 73 de Bernie - W8NBC SKCC#7783, DMC#3936 30MDG#4835
        Message 3 of 6 , May 2, 2011
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          Andy
          Thank you for the very understandable description. Your help is very much appreciated.

          73 de Bernie - W8NBC
          SKCC#7783, DMC#3936
          30MDG#4835
        • Siegfried Jackstien
          Bpsk shifts phase between 0 and 180 and back Qpsk knows also 90 and 270 degrees in the phase switching ... that is why it is sideband sensitive Dg9bfc Sigi Ps
          Message 4 of 6 , May 2, 2011
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            Bpsk shifts phase between 0 and 180 and back
            Qpsk knows also 90 and 270 degrees in the phase switching ... that is why it
            is sideband sensitive
            Dg9bfc
            Sigi
            Ps most what you will find is bpsk31 (almost standard) and some bpsk63
            I never found a qpsk station on air ... I think some use it after asking
            qsp-partner to switch ... but do not know really

            > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
            > Von: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:30MDG@yahoogroups.com] Im Auftrag von
            > Bernie
            > Gesendet: Montag, 2. Mai 2011 14:24
            > An: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
            > Betreff: [30MDG] PSK ?
            >
            >
            >
            > As you will see, I am quite new to digital. One question I have is what is
            > the difference between QPSK and BPSK. I use HRD and DM780 and when I open
            > it up, how do I know which one to choose. Please excuse the "dumb"
            > question but I have been confused by the choice.
            >
            > 73 de Bernie - W8NBC
            > SKCC#7783, 30MDG#3936
            >
            >
            >
            >
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