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CW at dxpeditions and special calls

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  • dl6xaz
    Hi all, just wondering: did any of you folks have difficulties already in reading high speed CW offered by certain special callsigns and dxpeditions? I don t
    Message 1 of 6 , Apr 1 4:35 AM
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      Hi all,
      just wondering: did any of you folks have difficulties already in reading high speed CW "offered" by certain special callsigns and dxpeditions?
      I don't refer to QRR treffic done by ex-professionals which you can hear at times from RA, IZ, F and DL who do it for chatting. No, the problems seems to be that some ops appear to filter out those who aren't able to read more than e.g. 20 wpm /100 cpm, only accepting high speed replies.
      I find it shameful and contrary to ham spirit that a vast number of ops are virtually excluded from getting those special calls into their logs. As I come from signals, having been cw teacher and able to read upto 35 wpm, I am not affected, but it really annoys me. Do they just want to put the maximum number of QSOs into the logs? Do they think they can reduce the pile-up that way? The latter certainly won't have success because many QRS operators revert to pc programs and programmed keyers just for sending their callsigns, however, often without being able to recognize their callsigns when that special station comes back. So it continues for hours.
      Recently I saw a special callsign transmitting at around 180 cpm. And what happened when hams called them at this speed? "QRZ" "AGN" and the like. What's the sense?
      My suggestion to those operators is: keep the speed at max. around 100 cpm/ 20wpm, do QSX of around 1-3 kHz, and call selective: per continent or country, listen also to the QRS stations, and give those a chance who aren't that fast!
      vy73 Fred DL6XAZ
    • ve3oij
      Yes, I have noticed this and find it annoying. As a person who normally tops out at 10, maybe 12 WPM on a good day it was problematic. However, I do have a
      Message 2 of 6 , Apr 2 5:04 AM
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        Yes, I have noticed this and find it annoying. As a person who normally tops out at 10, maybe 12 WPM on a good day it was problematic.

        However, I do have a coping strategy...

        - I have found that I can reliably recognize my own callsign at up to at least 30, perhaps 35 WPM.
        - I have noticed that DXPeditions rarely send much more than 5NN anyway, and that is pretty easy to recognize at any speed.

        So I set the computer to the DX's sending speed, and send my call. When I hear my call come back, I send "TU UR 5NN 5NN in OTTAWA DE VE3OIJ", wait for their reply and send "TU 73 DE VE3OIJ SK"

        I don't even bother with the computer decode... I know what they're sending because I've heard the exchange so many times.

        it's funny too... since I started doing this, not only have I managed to pick up some nice DX entries for the log, but my CW speed has increased.

        73 de VE3OIJ
        -Darin



        --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, "dl6xaz" <dl6xaz@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi all,
        > just wondering: did any of you folks have difficulties already in
        >reading high speed CW "offered" by certain special callsigns and
        >dxpeditions?
        > I don't refer to QRR treffic done by ex-professionals which you can
        >hear at times from RA, IZ, F and DL who do it for chatting. No, the
        >problems seems to be that some ops appear to filter out those who
        >aren't able to read more than e.g. 20 wpm /100 cpm, only accepting
        >high speed replies.
        > I find it shameful and contrary to ham spirit that a vast number of
        >ops are virtually excluded from getting those special calls into their >logs.
      • dl6xaz
        Hi Darin, thanks very much; indeed, being able to read your call at high speed makes things much easier, and that frequent listening to higher speeds than you
        Message 3 of 6 , Apr 2 11:19 AM
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          Hi Darin,
          thanks very much; indeed, being able to read your call at high speed makes things much easier, and that frequent listening to higher speeds than you usually do is a proven help for training the grey cells. You are right too insofar as the exchanges are rudimentary; in the end, they do not interest much as the most important is your call being received and returned. You found a good way around this problem.
          The reason why I criticize the QRR practice is that it puts many "slower" hams into great disadvantage when for whichever reason they cannot read their calls at high speeds. Also, many do not have a pc, or even keyers with built in memories for calls and dx-exchanges, so they have to hammer all this info into the air. I have great respect for them, but apparently the high-speed gang considers them as cw-dinosaurs...
          vy73 Fred DL6XAZ


          --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, "ve3oij" <ve3oij@...> wrote:
          >
          > Yes, I have noticed this and find it annoying. As a person who normally tops out at 10, maybe 12 WPM on a good day it was problematic.
          >
          > However, I do have a coping strategy...
          >
          > - I have found that I can reliably recognize my own callsign at up to at least 30, perhaps 35 WPM.
          > - I have noticed that DXPeditions rarely send much more than 5NN anyway, and that is pretty easy to recognize at any speed.
          >
          > So I set the computer to the DX's sending speed, and send my call. When I hear my call come back, I send "TU UR 5NN 5NN in OTTAWA DE VE3OIJ", wait for their reply and send "TU 73 DE VE3OIJ SK"
          >
          > I don't even bother with the computer decode... I know what they're sending because I've heard the exchange so many times.
          >
          > it's funny too... since I started doing this, not only have I managed to pick up some nice DX entries for the log, but my CW speed has increased.
          >
          > 73 de VE3OIJ
          > -Darin
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, "dl6xaz" <dl6xaz@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi all,
          > > just wondering: did any of you folks have difficulties already in
          > >reading high speed CW "offered" by certain special callsigns and
          > >dxpeditions?
          > > I don't refer to QRR treffic done by ex-professionals which you can
          > >hear at times from RA, IZ, F and DL who do it for chatting. No, the
          > >problems seems to be that some ops appear to filter out those who
          > >aren't able to read more than e.g. 20 wpm /100 cpm, only accepting
          > >high speed replies.
          > > I find it shameful and contrary to ham spirit that a vast number of
          > >ops are virtually excluded from getting those special calls into their >logs.
          >
        • ve3oij
          You are also touching on a personal bugbear of mine... It s not hard to get the impression, if you go through my writings on my blog and in other places, that
          Message 4 of 6 , Apr 3 6:21 AM
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            You are also touching on a personal bugbear of mine... It's not hard to get the impression, if you go through my writings on my blog and in other places, that I am anti-CW.

            I am not "against" CW - I think that mode is an important and useful tool in the communications toolbox of any radio amateur. What I am against is the Morse Code elitism that seems to permeate this hobby and has at least since I got my licence back in 1993.

            QRR DX operation is one symptom of that elitism. There are many others... like the guy who came down to my freq on 40 m a few years ago to send "TOO SLOW GET OFF BAND" without his callsign, of course. Others are the "gentlemen" who look down on amateurs who have a no-code licence, but themselves can't operate basic computer electronics for digital operation. The people who stand up in front of the public and push amateur radio as CW CW CW, making all of us look like dinosaurs caught in the 19th century.

            People like that actually do damage to amateur radio, but it seems there's no convincing them of that. By pushing all CW, they keep potential new amateurs out of the hobby by making it look old and irrelevant in a modern world. By doing things to discourage the CW novice, such as high-speed-only operation, they actually reduce the pool of CW users by setting up a barrier that many people aren't interested in overcoming.

            I passed my morse code exam in 1993 primarily to shut up the no-code elitists. I never used morse code again until a couple years ago. Fortunately, there are some local amateurs who have served as mentors, helping me work on my speed and technique. They've made CW very INTERESTING for me, as opposed to making me feel bad that I wasn't born an expert.

            As an aside, I think the digital groups like 30MDG, EPC, 070, etc. do amateur radio a great service... they showcase some of the more advanced features of this hobby. I am the station manager for VE3JW - the amateur radio demonstration at the Canada Museum of Science and Technology and I have to say, kids think that a digital radio QSO across town is way cooler than a high-speed 5NN to a guy in Upper Slobovia in Morse Code. It's digital and satellite that will bring new amateurs in, not CW.

            73 de VE3OIJ
            -Darin

            --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, "dl6xaz" <dl6xaz@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Darin,
            > thanks very much; indeed, being able to read your call at high speed makes things much easier, and that frequent listening to higher speeds than you usually do is a proven help for training the grey cells. You are right too insofar as the exchanges are rudimentary; in the end, they do not interest much as the most important is your call being received and returned. You found a good way around this problem.
            > The reason why I criticize the QRR practice is that it puts many "slower" hams into great disadvantage when for whichever reason they cannot read their calls at high speeds. Also, many do not have a pc, or even keyers with built in memories for calls and dx-exchanges, so they have to hammer all this info into the air. I have great respect for them, but apparently the high-speed gang considers them as cw-dinosaurs...
            > vy73 Fred DL6XAZ
          • JosephB
            Daren, I am a know code amateur. I passed the CW requirement for my Novice and General license back in 1991. I could not agree with you more. I experienced
            Message 5 of 6 , Apr 3 8:29 AM
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              Daren, I am a "know code" amateur. I passed the CW requirement for my Novice and General license back in 1991. I could not agree with you more. I experienced some of the same stuff you did in my early days. Very well said.

              --73 - Joe W2JLB


              --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, "ve3oij" <ve3oij@...> wrote:
              >
              > You are also touching on a personal bugbear of mine... It's not hard to get the impression, if you go through my writings on my blog and in other places, that I am anti-CW.
              >
              > I am not "against" CW - I think that mode is an important and useful tool in the communications toolbox of any radio amateur. What I am against is the Morse Code elitism that seems to permeate this hobby and has at least since I got my licence back in 1993.
              >
              > QRR DX operation is one symptom of that elitism. There are many others... like the guy who came down to my freq on 40 m a few years ago to send "TOO SLOW GET OFF BAND" without his callsign, of course. Others are the "gentlemen" who look down on amateurs who have a no-code licence, but themselves can't operate basic computer electronics for digital operation. The people who stand up in front of the public and push amateur radio as CW CW CW, making all of us look like dinosaurs caught in the 19th century.
              >
              > People like that actually do damage to amateur radio, but it seems there's no convincing them of that. By pushing all CW, they keep potential new amateurs out of the hobby by making it look old and irrelevant in a modern world. By doing things to discourage the CW novice, such as high-speed-only operation, they actually reduce the pool of CW users by setting up a barrier that many people aren't interested in overcoming.
              >
              > I passed my morse code exam in 1993 primarily to shut up the no-code elitists. I never used morse code again until a couple years ago. Fortunately, there are some local amateurs who have served as mentors, helping me work on my speed and technique. They've made CW very INTERESTING for me, as opposed to making me feel bad that I wasn't born an expert.
              >
              > As an aside, I think the digital groups like 30MDG, EPC, 070, etc. do amateur radio a great service... they showcase some of the more advanced features of this hobby. I am the station manager for VE3JW - the amateur radio demonstration at the Canada Museum of Science and Technology and I have to say, kids think that a digital radio QSO across town is way cooler than a high-speed 5NN to a guy in Upper Slobovia in Morse Code. It's digital and satellite that will bring new amateurs in, not CW.
              >
              > 73 de VE3OIJ
              > -Darin
              >
              > --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, "dl6xaz" <dl6xaz@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Hi Darin,
              > > thanks very much; indeed, being able to read your call at high speed makes things much easier, and that frequent listening to higher speeds than you usually do is a proven help for training the grey cells. You are right too insofar as the exchanges are rudimentary; in the end, they do not interest much as the most important is your call being received and returned. You found a good way around this problem.
              > > The reason why I criticize the QRR practice is that it puts many "slower" hams into great disadvantage when for whichever reason they cannot read their calls at high speeds. Also, many do not have a pc, or even keyers with built in memories for calls and dx-exchanges, so they have to hammer all this info into the air. I have great respect for them, but apparently the high-speed gang considers them as cw-dinosaurs...
              > > vy73 Fred DL6XAZ
              >
            • dl6xaz
              Hi Darin and all others, very well written reply! I fully understand your point re anti-CW . It shows what some hams have to go through at times when
              Message 6 of 6 , Apr 4 10:06 AM
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                Hi Darin and all others,
                very well written reply! I fully understand your point re "anti-CW". It shows what some hams have to go through at times when allegedly not "complying with the standards". I observed similar things when CW was abolished as part of the exam, permitting the former VHF/UHF-only hams to operate on shortwaves. It was shocking to hear those old b....rds (sorry but got no other term) shouting in foul language to QSY and get a proper license first. Truly I can not repeat it verbaslly. This has calmed down.
                I think your term "elitism" is the best definition - and it does ham radio more damage on long term than any political or economical interests trying to abolish ham radio.
                It is a highly educational technical hobby; it seems to me that there are alreedy too many economical interssts riding in that saddle, and as you well know you can kill the horse with too much load on its back. The elitism you so well cite is also caused by those operators to get as many QSOs as possible into the log to justify the sponsoring without which they could not entertain such "expeditions".
                I got much more respect and appreciation of the individual or group of hams who just activate the next available/accessible island / lighthouse / mountain / railroad / special event - you name it - at their very own expense, sweat and toil in whichever mode! This is ham spirit. I prefer to work them instead of spending hours in a brickwall of pile-up QRM for some godforlorn island in the oceans.
                Maybe the ARRL in their adamant attitudes should reconsider and abolish certain too exotic areas from their country list, to stop too expensive and too sensational dxpeditions which only lead to what we discuss here and which do not benefit ham radio in general, apart from forcing ham into considerable QSL expenses if they want to have a card. I am not interested in buying "valid" QSOs.
                In the same sense I may ask the managers of our esteemed 30mdg-awards management to consider whether it makes sense that some awards can only be completed when requessted areas can only be activated by dxpedition, e.g. Great North or South. Aims set too high can act as demotivators, as Darin so well states.
                vy73 Fred DL6XAZ

                --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, "ve3oij" <ve3oij@...> wrote:
                >
                > You are also touching on a personal bugbear of mine... It's not hard to get the impression, if you go through my writings on my blog and in other places, that I am anti-CW.
                >
                > I am not "against" CW - I think that mode is an important and useful tool in the communications toolbox of any radio amateur. What I am against is the Morse Code elitism that seems to permeate this hobby and has at least since I got my licence back in 1993.
                >
                > QRR DX operation is one symptom of that elitism. There are many others... like the guy who came down to my freq on 40 m a few years ago to send "TOO SLOW GET OFF BAND" without his callsign, of course. Others are the "gentlemen" who look down on amateurs who have a no-code licence, but themselves can't operate basic computer electronics for digital operation. The people who stand up in front of the public and push amateur radio as CW CW CW, making all of us look like dinosaurs caught in the 19th century.
                >
                > People like that actually do damage to amateur radio, but it seems there's no convincing them of that. By pushing all CW, they keep potential new amateurs out of the hobby by making it look old and irrelevant in a modern world. By doing things to discourage the CW novice, such as high-speed-only operation, they actually reduce the pool of CW users by setting up a barrier that many people aren't interested in overcoming.
                >
                > I passed my morse code exam in 1993 primarily to shut up the no-code elitists. I never used morse code again until a couple years ago. Fortunately, there are some local amateurs who have served as mentors, helping me work on my speed and technique. They've made CW very INTERESTING for me, as opposed to making me feel bad that I wasn't born an expert.
                >
                > As an aside, I think the digital groups like 30MDG, EPC, 070, etc. do amateur radio a great service... they showcase some of the more advanced features of this hobby. I am the station manager for VE3JW - the amateur radio demonstration at the Canada Museum of Science and Technology and I have to say, kids think that a digital radio QSO across town is way cooler than a high-speed 5NN to a guy in Upper Slobovia in Morse Code. It's digital and satellite that will bring new amateurs in, not CW.
                >
                > 73 de VE3OIJ
                > -Darin
                >
                ------------snip--------------
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