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Re: DX zoo

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  • zorro
    There is a solution to this on 30 MTR dxpeditions Re: digital modes.. Why do they not call on 10.137 and work down.. It has been done by some of the more
    Message 1 of 29 , Mar 24, 2011
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      There is a solution to this on 30 MTR dxpeditions Re: digital modes..
      Why do they not call on 10.137 and work down..
      It has been done by some of the more clever dxpeditions.
      I was one of them in the zoo for S21 that Fred talks about. 
      I was lucky and worked out what was going on and got them 2nd call.
      That said, they were calling on 10.138 RTTY(JT65/WSPR) qrg. Working up.
      The band segment for the rest of the digi section was a no no for other modes.. 
      Do I feel guilty, as a matter of fact yes.. Knowing that there was psk31 sigs being blasted out.
      Yes it is nice to get new countries. Not at the expense of others enjoyment.
      The dx code of conduct should work two ways
      Expeditions should  recognise the mayhem they cause others whom are not interested in working them.
      It's not rocket science..
      Maybe a solution can be found.. It certainly needs to be brought up..
       
      Regards
       
      Paul G0UZP
       
    • Scott Currier
      The 30MDG should recommend a portion of the band for RTTY DXing and post that recommendation on it s website. I think that most people would follow that
      Message 2 of 29 , Mar 24, 2011
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        The 30MDG should recommend a portion of the band for RTTY DXing and post that recommendation on it's website.
         
        I think that most people would follow that recommendation and thus eliminate the problem of interference to other users.
         
        I suggest the portion of the band from .130 to .135.
         
        73 Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA






















         

        To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
        From: g0uzpham@...
        Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 17:41:47 +0000
        Subject: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo

         
        There is a solution to this on 30 MTR dxpeditions Re: digital modes..
        Why do they not call on 10.137 and work down..
        It has been done by some of the more clever dxpeditions.
        I was one of them in the zoo for S21 that Fred talks about. 
        I was lucky and worked out what was going on and got them 2nd call.
        That said, they were calling on 10.138 RTTY(JT65/WSPR) qrg. Working up.
        The band segment for the rest of the digi section was a no no for other modes.. 
        Do I feel guilty, as a matter of fact yes.. Knowing that there was psk31 sigs being blasted out.
        Yes it is nice to get new countries. Not at the expense of others enjoyment.
        The dx code of conduct should work two ways
        Expeditions should  recognise the mayhem they cause others whom are not interested in working them.
        It's not rocket science..
        Maybe a solution can be found.. It certainly needs to be brought up..
         
        Regards
         
        Paul G0UZP
         


      • dl6xaz
        Hi all, thanks to all your replies, and indeed it should be seriously considered issueing a recommendation on the 30mDG-site in that sense. What so deeply
        Message 3 of 29 , Mar 24, 2011
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          Hi all,
          thanks to all your replies, and indeed it should be seriously considered issueing a recommendation on the 30mDG-site in that sense. What so deeply disappoints me is not the ignorance of certain hams when they spread out over 1-10 up, but the attitude of those dxpedition-operators who do either not think about what they cause or, worse even, don't care at all (" we are dxpedition, what do you expect? We can do what we like...") They want to be respected for their engagement, and I am the first one to recognize their efforts. But respect is no one-way traffic, and we, the greater ham community can expect to be respected, too. If you put out your rear end out of the window, don't be surprised if there are some who will slap it.
          73 Fred DL6XAZ


          --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, Scott Currier <scott_currier@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > The 30MDG should recommend a portion of the band for RTTY DXing and post that recommendation on it's website.
          >
          > I think that most people would follow that recommendation and thus eliminate the problem of interference to other users.
          >
          > I suggest the portion of the band from .130 to .135.
          >
          > 73 Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
          >
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          > To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
          > From: g0uzpham@...
          > Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 17:41:47 +0000
          > Subject: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > There is a solution to this on 30 MTR dxpeditions Re: digital modes..
          > Why do they not call on 10.137 and work down..
          > It has been done by some of the more clever dxpeditions.
          > I was one of them in the zoo for S21 that Fred talks about.
          > I was lucky and worked out what was going on and got them 2nd call.
          > That said, they were calling on 10.138 RTTY(JT65/WSPR) qrg. Working up.
          > The band segment for the rest of the digi section was a no no for other modes..
          > Do I feel guilty, as a matter of fact yes.. Knowing that there was psk31 sigs being blasted out.
          > Yes it is nice to get new countries. Not at the expense of others enjoyment.
          > The dx code of conduct should work two ways
          > Expeditions should recognise the mayhem they cause others whom are not interested in working them.
          > It's not rocket science..
          > Maybe a solution can be found.. It certainly needs to be brought up..
          >
          > Regards
          >
          > Paul G0UZP
          >
        • Scott Currier
          I agree with you on all points. I have seen some phone dxpeditions who have destroyed 20 meters by spreading people throughout the phone band. The result of
          Message 4 of 29 , Mar 24, 2011
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            I agree with you on all points. I have seen some phone dxpeditions who have destroyed 20 meters by spreading people throughout the phone band.

            The result of this is to needlessly disrupt the band but also to invite jamming of the dx station.

            The displaced stations can't easily go after the stations that are disrupting them because those stations aren't even listening on their transmit frequency. They can go after the DX station though and that's usually what happens.

            In reality the poor Dxpedition operators are hurting themselves by inviting the jamming.

            On 30 meters, a declaration of where DXpedition digital operation is recommended to be would help out a lot.

            73 and good dx.

            Scott KT1B Haverhill,  MA


























            To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
            From: dl6xaz@...
            Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 20:30:38 +0000
            Subject: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo

             
            Hi all,
            thanks to all your replies, and indeed it should be seriously considered issueing a recommendation on the 30mDG-site in that sense. What so deeply disappoints me is not the ignorance of certain hams when they spread out over 1-10 up, but the attitude of those dxpedition-operators who do either not think about what they cause or, worse even, don't care at all (" we are dxpedition, what do you expect? We can do what we like...") They want to be respected for their engagement, and I am the first one to recognize their efforts. But respect is no one-way traffic, and we, the greater ham community can expect to be respected, too. If you put out your rear end out of the window, don't be surprised if there are some who will slap it.
            73 Fred DL6XAZ

            --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, Scott Currier <scott_currier@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > The 30MDG should recommend a portion of the band for RTTY DXing and post that recommendation on it's website.
            >
            > I think that most people would follow that recommendation and thus eliminate the problem of interference to other users.
            >
            > I suggest the portion of the band from .130 to .135.
            >
            > 73 Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
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            > To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
            > From: g0uzpham@...
            > Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 17:41:47 +0000
            > Subject: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > There is a solution to this on 30 MTR dxpeditions Re: digital modes..
            > Why do they not call on 10.137 and work down..
            > It has been done by some of the more clever dxpeditions.
            > I was one of them in the zoo for S21 that Fred talks about.
            > I was lucky and worked out what was going on and got them 2nd call.
            > That said, they were calling on 10.138 RTTY(JT65/WSPR) qrg. Working up.
            > The band segment for the rest of the digi section was a no no for other modes..
            > Do I feel guilty, as a matter of fact yes.. Knowing that there was psk31 sigs being blasted out.
            > Yes it is nice to get new countries. Not at the expense of others enjoyment.
            > The dx code of conduct should work two ways
            > Expeditions should recognise the mayhem they cause others whom are not interested in working them.
            > It's not rocket science..
            > Maybe a solution can be found.. It certainly needs to be brought up..
            >
            > Regards
            >
            > Paul G0UZP
            >


          • Eckersberger Peter
            Hello All, I fully agree on that being said about the behave of DXpeditions. But I strongly disagree on Scotts QRG-suggestion .130 - .135 ! Following the IARU
            Message 5 of 29 , Mar 25, 2011
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              Hello All,

              I fully agree on that being said about the behave of DXpeditions. But I strongly disagree on Scotts QRG-suggestion ".130 - .135"!

              Following the IARU bandplan for region 1 this part of 30m is to be used for CW exclusively. In other words HAMs in region 1 would not be able to have any digi mode contact (except CW of course).


              Here is the IARU text on that matter ...

              #######################################################################

              10100 - 10140  200  CW,  10116 kHz -  QRP Centre of Activity
              10140 - 10150  500  Narrow band modes – digimodes


              Narrow band modes: All modes using up to 500 Hz bandwidth, including CW, RTTY, PSK etc.

              Digimodes: Any digital mode used within the appropriate bandwidth, for example RTTY, PSK, MT63 etc

              #######################################################################

              Well, at least here in lovely Austria these IARU recommendations have been strictly followed and put into valid Governmental law.

              I know what I'm talking about as years ago I had my own experience on this matter. Making an RTTY contact on 10135 on Tuesday was directly followed by a visit of a Government official on Thursday same week :'( .

              So, please don't even think about to make the range ".130 - .135" as recommendation on "30MDG" website
              >:o
              . Keep always in mind that the whole globe
              is divided into 3 different regions with (unfortunately) different Governmental bans and rules.



              73 de Pez,  OE3EPW
               <oe3epw@...>

              AR  SK


              Am 24.03.2011 21:30, schrieb dl6xaz:
              Hi all,
              thanks to all your replies, and indeed it should be seriously considered issueing a recommendation on the 30mDG-site in that sense. What so deeply disappoints me is not the ignorance of certain hams when they spread out over 1-10 up, but the attitude of those dxpedition-operators who do either not think about what they cause or, worse even, don't care at all (" we are dxpedition, what do you expect? We can do what we like...") They want to be respected for their engagement, and I am the first one to recognize their efforts. But respect is no one-way traffic, and we, the greater ham community can expect to be respected, too. If you put out your rear end out of the window, don't be surprised if there are some who will slap it.
              73 Fred DL6XAZ
              
              
              --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, Scott Currier <scott_currier@...> wrote:
              
              
              The 30MDG should recommend a portion of the band for RTTY DXing and post that recommendation on it's website. 
               
              I think that most people would follow that recommendation and thus eliminate the problem of interference to other users. 
               
              I suggest the portion of the band from .130 to .135. 
               
              73 Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
              
              
              
              
              
              
              
              
              
              
              
              
              
              
              
              
              
              
              
              
              
              
               
              
              
              To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
              From: g0uzpham@...
              Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 17:41:47 +0000
              Subject: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo
              
              
                
              
              
              
              
              There is a solution to this on 30 MTR dxpeditions Re: digital modes..
              Why do they not call on 10.137 and work down..
              It has been done by some of the more clever dxpeditions.
              I was one of them in the zoo for S21 that Fred talks about. 
              I was lucky and worked out what was going on and got them 2nd call.
              That said, they were calling on 10.138 RTTY(JT65/WSPR) qrg. Working up.
              The band segment for the rest of the digi section was a no no for other modes.. 
              Do I feel guilty, as a matter of fact yes.. Knowing that there was psk31 sigs being blasted out.
              Yes it is nice to get new countries. Not at the expense of others enjoyment.
              The dx code of conduct should work two ways 
              Expeditions should  recognise the mayhem they cause others whom are not interested in working them.
              It's not rocket science..
              Maybe a solution can be found.. It certainly needs to be brought up..
               
              Regards
               
              Paul G0UZP
              
              
              
              
              
            • Scott Currier
              Good afternoon Pez, thank you for the information regarding digital below 10.140. The bandplan says that digital is supposed to be above .140 but I work region
              Message 6 of 29 , Mar 25, 2011
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                Good afternoon Pez, thank you for the information regarding digital below 10.140. The bandplan says that digital is supposed to be above .140 but I work region 1 regularly on jt65 below .140. Are they making an exception for JT65?
                 
                Instead of .130 to .135 where would you suggest? If they had to pick a place between 10.140 and .150 where do you suggest it should be?
                 
                Unlike the more efficient and better performing digital modes, RTTY is like a bull in a china shop, people tend to run high power and ignore the signals of the more efficient and better performing modes. That being the case, RTTY should be written into the band plan somewhere and a recommendation made for DXers, otherwise you have them operating anywhere and everywhere.  What about 10.149 to 10.150. It's over 5 times the bandwidth needed for one RTTY QSO and thus should be enough for pileup operation. 

                I pick on RTTY all the time but I do use it for DXing if the DX warrants it.
                 
                We could always recommend that "due to the small size of the world wide digital subband on 30 meters, Dxpeditions should use bpsk31 instead of RTTY because of bandwidth issues." Some people will follow the recommendation, others won't.
                 
                73 and good dx. I have a sore throat so I guess I won't be in the WPX contest this weekend, no loss. I'll be on cw and the digital modes.
                 
                Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA





















                 

                To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                From: oe3epw@...
                Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 10:40:44 +0100
                Subject: Re: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo

                 
                Hello All,

                I fully agree on that being said about the behave of DXpeditions. But I strongly disagree on Scotts QRG-suggestion ".130 - .135"!

                Following the IARU bandplan for region 1 this part of 30m is to be used for CW exclusively. In other words HAMs in region 1 would not be able to have any digi mode contact (except CW of course).


                Here is the IARU text on that matter ...

                #######################################################################

                10100 - 10140  200  CW,  10116 kHz -  QRP Centre of Activity
                10140 - 10150  500  Narrow band modes – digimodes


                Narrow band modes: All modes using up to 500 Hz bandwidth, including CW, RTTY, PSK etc.

                Digimodes: Any digital mode used within the appropriate bandwidth, for example RTTY, PSK, MT63 etc

                #######################################################################

                Well, at least here in lovely Austria these IARU recommendations have been strictly followed and put into valid Governmental law.

                I know what I'm talking about as years ago I had my own experience on this matter. Making an RTTY contact on 10135 on Tuesday was directly followed by a visit of a Government official on Thursday same week :'( .

                So, please don't even think about to make the range ".130 - .135" as recommendation on "30MDG" website >:o . Keep always in mind that the whole globe is divided into 3 different regions with (unfortunately) different Governmental bans and rules.



                73 de Pez,  OE3EPW
                 <oe3epw@...>

                AR  SK


                Am 24.03.2011 21:30, schrieb dl6xaz:
                Hi all,
                thanks to all your replies, and indeed it should be seriously considered issueing a recommendation on the 30mDG-site in that sense. What so deeply disappoints me is not the ignorance of certain hams when they spread out over 1-10 up, but the attitude of those dxpedition-operators who do either not think about what they cause or, worse even, don't care at all (" we are dxpedition, what do you expect? We can do what we like...") They want to be respected for their engagement, and I am the first one to recognize their efforts. But respect is no one-way traffic, and we, the greater ham community can expect to be respected, too. If you put out your rear end out of the window, don't be surprised if there are some who will slap it.
                73 Fred DL6XAZ
                
                
                --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, Scott Currier <scott_currier@...> wrote:
                
                The 30MDG should recommend a portion of the band for RTTY DXing and post that recommendation on it's website. 
                 
                I think that most people would follow that recommendation and thus eliminate the problem of interference to other users. 
                 
                I suggest the portion of the band from .130 to .135. 
                 
                73 Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                 
                
                
                To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                From: g0uzpham@...
                Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 17:41:47 +0000
                Subject: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo
                
                
                  
                
                
                
                
                There is a solution to this on 30 MTR dxpeditions Re: digital modes..
                Why do they not call on 10.137 and work down..
                It has been done by some of the more clever dxpeditions.
                I was one of them in the zoo for S21 that Fred talks about. 
                I was lucky and worked out what was going on and got them 2nd call.
                That said, they were calling on 10.138 RTTY(JT65/WSPR) qrg. Working up.
                The band segment for the rest of the digi section was a no no for other modes.. 
                Do I feel guilty, as a matter of fact yes.. Knowing that there was psk31 sigs being blasted out.
                Yes it is nice to get new countries. Not at the expense of others enjoyment.
                The dx code of conduct should work two ways 
                Expeditions should  recognise the mayhem they cause others whom are not interested in working them.
                It's not rocket science..
                Maybe a solution can be found.. It certainly needs to be brought up..
                 
                Regards
                 
                Paul G0UZP
                
                
                
                


              • Eckersberger Peter
                Hi Scott and All, To answer your questions ... NO, here in Austria there is no exception what so ever for JT65 . People transmitting below 10140 are doing it
                Message 7 of 29 , Mar 25, 2011
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                  Hi Scott and All,

                  To answer your questions ... NO, here in Austria there is no exception what so ever for "JT65". People transmitting below 10140 are doing it on their own risk. This might be totally different in other region 1 countries.

                  As of those RTTY-bulls ... Well, the QRG to start the "QSX UP" stampede should not be lower than 10145. By doing it that way all the other main digital modes would be able to survive further down without being killed by all those incredible 2KW/RTTY signals.

                  Talking about using BPSK31 for DXpeditions ... Seems to me to be kind of a pipe dream. I cant imagine this will ever happen. DXpeditions want to make as many contacts as possible within the shortest possible time frame. PSK31 is just to slow to fit into this requirement. PSK63 would be good, PSK125 even better and PSK250 ideal. But for different reasons all 3 of them are not that much in use by standard digi operators.

                  Anyway, finally I wish you a quick recovery on your sore throat. Have a relaxing weekend and enjoy CW!


                  73 de Pez,  OE3EPW
                   <oe3epw@...>

                  AR  SK



                  Am 25.03.2011 14:20, schrieb Scott Currier:
                  Good afternoon Pez, thank you for the information regarding digital below 10.140. The bandplan says that digital is supposed to be above .140 but I work region 1 regularly on jt65 below .140. Are they making an exception for JT65? 
                   
                  Instead of .130 to .135 where would you suggest? If they had to pick a place between 10.140 and .150 where do you suggest it should be? 
                   
                  Unlike the more efficient and better performing digital modes, RTTY is like a bull in a china shop, people tend to run high power and ignore the signals of the more efficient and better performing modes. That being the case, RTTY should be written into the band plan somewhere and a recommendation made for DXers, otherwise you have them operating anywhere and everywhere.  What about 10.149 to 10.150. It's over 5 times the bandwidth needed for one RTTY QSO and thus should be enough for pileup operation. 
                  
                  I pick on RTTY all the time but I do use it for DXing if the DX warrants it. 
                   
                  We could always recommend that "due to the small size of the world wide digital subband on 30 meters, Dxpeditions should use bpsk31 instead of RTTY because of bandwidth issues." Some people will follow the recommendation, others won't. 
                   
                  73 and good dx. I have a sore throat so I guess I won't be in the WPX contest this weekend, no loss. I'll be on cw and the digital modes. 
                   
                  Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                   
                  
                  
                  To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                  From: oe3epw@...
                  Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 10:40:44 +0100
                  Subject: Re: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo
                  
                  
                    
                  
                  
                  
                  Hello All,
                  
                  I fully agree on that being said about the behave of DXpeditions. But I strongly disagree on Scotts QRG-suggestion ".130 - .135"!
                  
                  Following the IARU bandplan for region 1 this part of 30m is to be used for CW exclusively. In other words HAMs in region 1 would not be able to have any digi mode contact (except CW of course).
                  
                  
                  Here is the IARU text on that matter ...
                  
                  #######################################################################
                  
                  10100 - 10140  200  CW,  10116 kHz -  QRP Centre of Activity
                  10140 - 10150  500  Narrow band modes � digimodes 
                  
                  
                  Narrow band modes: All modes using up to 500 Hz bandwidth, including CW, RTTY, PSK etc. 
                  
                  Digimodes: Any digital mode used within the appropriate bandwidth, for example RTTY, PSK, MT63 etc
                  
                  #######################################################################
                  
                  Well, at least here in lovely Austria these IARU recommendations have been strictly followed and put into valid Governmental law.
                  
                  I know what I'm talking about as years ago I had my own experience on this matter. Making an RTTY contact on 10135 on Tuesday was directly followed by a visit of a Government official on Thursday same week :'( .
                  
                  So, please don't even think about to make the range ".130 - .135" as recommendation on "30MDG" website >:o . Keep always in mind that the whole globe is divided into 3 different regions with (unfortunately) different Governmental bans and rules.
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  73 de Pez,  OE3EPW
                   <oe3epw@...>
                  
                  AR  SK
                  
                  
                  Am 24.03.2011 21:30, schrieb dl6xaz: 
                  Hi all,
                  thanks to all your replies, and indeed it should be seriously considered issueing a recommendation on the 30mDG-site in that sense. What so deeply disappoints me is not the ignorance of certain hams when they spread out over 1-10 up, but the attitude of those dxpedition-operators who do either not think about what they cause or, worse even, don't care at all (" we are dxpedition, what do you expect? We can do what we like...") They want to be respected for their engagement, and I am the first one to recognize their efforts. But respect is no one-way traffic, and we, the greater ham community can expect to be respected, too. If you put out your rear end out of the window, don't be surprised if there are some who will slap it.
                  73 Fred DL6XAZ
                  
                  
                  --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, Scott Currier <scott_currier@...> wrote:
                  
                  
                  The 30MDG should recommend a portion of the band for RTTY DXing and post that recommendation on it's website. 
                   
                  I think that most people would follow that recommendation and thus eliminate the problem of interference to other users. 
                   
                  I suggest the portion of the band from .130 to .135. 
                   
                  73 Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                   
                  
                  
                  To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                  From: g0uzpham@...
                  Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 17:41:47 +0000
                  Subject: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo
                  
                  
                    
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  There is a solution to this on 30 MTR dxpeditions Re: digital modes..
                  Why do they not call on 10.137 and work down..
                  It has been done by some of the more clever dxpeditions.
                  I was one of them in the zoo for S21 that Fred talks about. 
                  I was lucky and worked out what was going on and got them 2nd call.
                  That said, they were calling on 10.138 RTTY(JT65/WSPR) qrg. Working up.
                  The band segment for the rest of the digi section was a no no for other modes.. 
                  Do I feel guilty, as a matter of fact yes.. Knowing that there was psk31 sigs being blasted out.
                  Yes it is nice to get new countries. Not at the expense of others enjoyment.
                  The dx code of conduct should work two ways 
                  Expeditions should  recognise the mayhem they cause others whom are not interested in working them.
                  It's not rocket science..
                  Maybe a solution can be found.. It certainly needs to be brought up..
                   
                  Regards
                   
                  Paul G0UZP
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                   		 	   		  
                  
                • dl6xaz
                  Hi all, sitting in a glass house and throwing hard objects can lead to trouble. So, don t let us mention JT65 below 140, just do it with as little power as
                  Message 8 of 29 , Mar 25, 2011
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                    Hi all,
                    sitting in a glass house and throwing hard objects can lead to trouble. So, don't let us mention JT65 below 140, just do it with as little power as possible , and I doubt that this will cause us trouble with CW fans. Anyway, the German Federal Network Agency stated some while ago that it will not prosecute violations of IARU ham band plans, leaving it to us hams ourselves to settle it. Well, Austria has got a different attitude then. Sorry for you Pez!
                    Re rtty and alternatives, I doubt there will come up any significant change in the near future. PSK63 would be a good alternative. And as for the greatest possible number of contacts, if you consider the bandwidth used by RTTY and the brickwall of pile-ups, then I could imagine that the result with PSK63 could be higher. I wait for the one special dxped. to try it.
                    Scott, get better soon, put the mike away and just use a couple of fingers instead, but beware of coughs during CW... that leads to QSD!
                    :-)) All the best!
                    Btw: is there anybody amongst us with good links to IARU, to raise the question why in Region 1 we only get 10 kHz for digimodes?
                    vy73 Fred DL6XAZ

                    --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, Eckersberger Peter <oe3epw@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi Scott and All,
                    >
                    > To answer your questions ... NO, here in Austria there is no exception
                    > what so ever for "JT65". People transmitting below 10140 are doing it on
                    > their own risk. This might be totally different in other region 1 countries.
                    >
                    > As of those RTTY-bulls ... Well, the QRG to start the "QSX UP" stampede
                    > should not be lower than 10145. By doing it that way all the other main
                    > digital modes would be able to survive further down without being killed
                    > by all those incredible 2KW/RTTY signals.
                    >
                    > Talking about using BPSK31 for DXpeditions ... Seems to me to be kind of
                    > a pipe dream. I cant imagine this will ever happen. DXpeditions want to
                    > make as many contacts as possible within the shortest possible time
                    > frame. PSK31 is just to slow to fit into this requirement. PSK63 would
                    > be good, PSK125 even better and PSK250 ideal. But for different reasons
                    > all 3 of them are not that much in use by standard digi operators.
                    >
                    > Anyway, finally I wish you a quick recovery on your sore throat. Have a
                    > relaxing weekend and enjoy CW!
                    >
                    >
                    > 73 de Pez, OE3EPW
                    > <oe3epw@...>
                    >
                    > AR SK
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Am 25.03.2011 14:20, schrieb Scott Currier:
                    > > Good afternoon Pez, thank you for the information regarding digital below 10.140. The bandplan says that digital is supposed to be above .140 but I work region 1 regularly on jt65 below .140. Are they making an exception for JT65?
                    > >
                    > > Instead of .130 to .135 where would you suggest? If they had to pick a place between 10.140 and .150 where do you suggest it should be?
                    > >
                    > > Unlike the more efficient and better performing digital modes, RTTY is like a bull in a china shop, people tend to run high power and ignore the signals of the more efficient and better performing modes. That being the case, RTTY should be written into the band plan somewhere and a recommendation made for DXers, otherwise you have them operating anywhere and everywhere. What about 10.149 to 10.150. It's over 5 times the bandwidth needed for one RTTY QSO and thus should be enough for pileup operation.
                    > >
                    > > I pick on RTTY all the time but I do use it for DXing if the DX warrants it.
                    > >
                    > > We could always recommend that "due to the small size of the world wide digital subband on 30 meters, Dxpeditions should use bpsk31 instead of RTTY because of bandwidth issues." Some people will follow the recommendation, others won't.
                    > >
                    > > 73 and good dx. I have a sore throat so I guess I won't be in the WPX contest this weekend, no loss. I'll be on cw and the digital modes.
                    > >
                    > > Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                    > > From: oe3epw@...
                    > > Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 10:40:44 +0100
                    > > Subject: Re: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Hello All,
                    > >
                    > > I fully agree on that being said about the behave of DXpeditions. But I strongly disagree on Scotts QRG-suggestion ".130 - .135"!
                    > >
                    > > Following the IARU bandplan for region 1 this part of 30m is to be used for CW exclusively. In other words HAMs in region 1 would not be able to have any digi mode contact (except CW of course).
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Here is the IARU text on that matter ...
                    > >
                    > > #######################################################################
                    > >
                    > > 10100 - 10140 200 CW, 10116 kHz - QRP Centre of Activity
                    > > 10140 - 10150 500 Narrow band modes ? digimodes
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Narrow band modes: All modes using up to 500 Hz bandwidth, including CW, RTTY, PSK etc.
                    > >
                    > > Digimodes: Any digital mode used within the appropriate bandwidth, for example RTTY, PSK, MT63 etc
                    > >
                    > > #######################################################################
                    > >
                    > > Well, at least here in lovely Austria these IARU recommendations have been strictly followed and put into valid Governmental law.
                    > >
                    > > I know what I'm talking about as years ago I had my own experience on this matter. Making an RTTY contact on 10135 on Tuesday was directly followed by a visit of a Government official on Thursday same week :'( .
                    > >
                    > > So, please don't even think about to make the range ".130 - .135" as recommendation on "30MDG" website>:o . Keep always in mind that the whole globe is divided into 3 different regions with (unfortunately) different Governmental bans and rules.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > 73 de Pez, OE3EPW
                    > > <oe3epw@...>
                    > >
                    > > AR SK
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Am 24.03.2011 21:30, schrieb dl6xaz:
                    > > Hi all,
                    > > thanks to all your replies, and indeed it should be seriously considered issueing a recommendation on the 30mDG-site in that sense. What so deeply disappoints me is not the ignorance of certain hams when they spread out over 1-10 up, but the attitude of those dxpedition-operators who do either not think about what they cause or, worse even, don't care at all (" we are dxpedition, what do you expect? We can do what we like...") They want to be respected for their engagement, and I am the first one to recognize their efforts. But respect is no one-way traffic, and we, the greater ham community can expect to be respected, too. If you put out your rear end out of the window, don't be surprised if there are some who will slap it.
                    > > 73 Fred DL6XAZ
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, Scott Currier<scott_currier@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > The 30MDG should recommend a portion of the band for RTTY DXing and post that recommendation on it's website.
                    > >
                    > > I think that most people would follow that recommendation and thus eliminate the problem of interference to other users.
                    > >
                    > > I suggest the portion of the band from .130 to .135.
                    > >
                    > > 73 Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                    > > From: g0uzpham@
                    > > Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 17:41:47 +0000
                    > > Subject: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > There is a solution to this on 30 MTR dxpeditions Re: digital modes..
                    > > Why do they not call on 10.137 and work down..
                    > > It has been done by some of the more clever dxpeditions.
                    > > I was one of them in the zoo for S21 that Fred talks about.
                    > > I was lucky and worked out what was going on and got them 2nd call.
                    > > That said, they were calling on 10.138 RTTY(JT65/WSPR) qrg. Working up.
                    > > The band segment for the rest of the digi section was a no no for other modes..
                    > > Do I feel guilty, as a matter of fact yes.. Knowing that there was psk31 sigs being blasted out.
                    > > Yes it is nice to get new countries. Not at the expense of others enjoyment.
                    > > The dx code of conduct should work two ways
                    > > Expeditions should recognise the mayhem they cause others whom are not interested in working them.
                    > > It's not rocket science..
                    > > Maybe a solution can be found.. It certainly needs to be brought up..
                    > >
                    > > Regards
                    > >
                    > > Paul G0UZP
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > <javascript:void(0);>
                    >
                  • Scott Currier
                    Hi Fred and others. Can anyone explain the logic behind the IARU bandplan in region 1 for digital. I don t understand why the band would be divided 40 kHz for
                    Message 9 of 29 , Mar 25, 2011
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                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hi Fred and others. Can anyone explain the logic behind the IARU bandplan in region 1 for digital.

                      I don't understand why the band would be divided 40 kHz for cw and 10 kHz for digital but there might be a good reason. If someone could explain it, I'd appreciate it.

                      I started out on 30 when we first got the band. CW, I don't recall operating RTTY on the band back then. I don't recall ever operating above approximately 10.125 in CW mode. It's pretty rare now.

                      The view I have of the band from region 2 is that 10.1 to 10.130 is more than enough space for CW. I don't feel crowded.

                      My personal view is that a 50/50 split would not be unreasonable if digital activity picks up. I think that the current band plans should plan for a 30/20 split.

                      I can see no reason to not operate digital down to .130. Are there countries that do not have access to the full 50 kHz band?

                      I wouldn't pick on RTTY  if I didn't use it. Since I use it on a regular basis I don't feel guilty about pointing out it's flaws.

                      Thanks for any input and for the best wishes. 73 and good DX

                      Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA


























                      To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                      From: dl6xaz@...
                      Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 18:25:47 +0000
                      Subject: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo

                       
                      Hi all,
                      sitting in a glass house and throwing hard objects can lead to trouble. So, don't let us mention JT65 below 140, just do it with as little power as possible , and I doubt that this will cause us trouble with CW fans. Anyway, the German Federal Network Agency stated some while ago that it will not prosecute violations of IARU ham band plans, leaving it to us hams ourselves to settle it. Well, Austria has got a different attitude then. Sorry for you Pez!
                      Re rtty and alternatives, I doubt there will come up any significant change in the near future. PSK63 would be a good alternative. And as for the greatest possible number of contacts, if you consider the bandwidth used by RTTY and the brickwall of pile-ups, then I could imagine that the result with PSK63 could be higher. I wait for the one special dxped. to try it.
                      Scott, get better soon, put the mike away and just use a couple of fingers instead, but beware of coughs during CW... that leads to QSD!
                      :-)) All the best!
                      Btw: is there anybody amongst us with good links to IARU, to raise the question why in Region 1 we only get 10 kHz for digimodes?
                      vy73 Fred DL6XAZ

                      --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, Eckersberger Peter <oe3epw@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi Scott and All,
                      >
                      > To answer your questions ... NO, here in Austria there is no exception
                      > what so ever for "JT65". People transmitting below 10140 are doing it on
                      > their own risk. This might be totally different in other region 1 countries.
                      >
                      > As of those RTTY-bulls ... Well, the QRG to start the "QSX UP" stampede
                      > should not be lower than 10145. By doing it that way all the other main
                      > digital modes would be able to survive further down without being killed
                      > by all those incredible 2KW/RTTY signals.
                      >
                      > Talking about using BPSK31 for DXpeditions ... Seems to me to be kind of
                      > a pipe dream. I cant imagine this will ever happen. DXpeditions want to
                      > make as many contacts as possible within the shortest possible time
                      > frame. PSK31 is just to slow to fit into this requirement. PSK63 would
                      > be good, PSK125 even better and PSK250 ideal. But for different reasons
                      > all 3 of them are not that much in use by standard digi operators.
                      >
                      > Anyway, finally I wish you a quick recovery on your sore throat. Have a
                      > relaxing weekend and enjoy CW!
                      >
                      >
                      > 73 de Pez, OE3EPW
                      > <oe3epw@...>
                      >
                      > AR SK
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Am 25.03.2011 14:20, schrieb Scott Currier:
                      > > Good afternoon Pez, thank you for the information regarding digital below 10.140. The bandplan says that digital is supposed to be above .140 but I work region 1 regularly on jt65 below .140. Are they making an exception for JT65?
                      > >
                      > > Instead of .130 to .135 where would you suggest? If they had to pick a place between 10.140 and .150 where do you suggest it should be?
                      > >
                      > > Unlike the more efficient and better performing digital modes, RTTY is like a bull in a china shop, people tend to run high power and ignore the signals of the more efficient and better performing modes. That being the case, RTTY should be written into the band plan somewhere and a recommendation made for DXers, otherwise you have them operating anywhere and everywhere. What about 10.149 to 10.150. It's over 5 times the bandwidth needed for one RTTY QSO and thus should be enough for pileup operation.
                      > >
                      > > I pick on RTTY all the time but I do use it for DXing if the DX warrants it.
                      > >
                      > > We could always recommend that "due to the small size of the world wide digital subband on 30 meters, Dxpeditions should use bpsk31 instead of RTTY because of bandwidth issues." Some people will follow the recommendation, others won't.
                      > >
                      > > 73 and good dx. I have a sore throat so I guess I won't be in the WPX contest this weekend, no loss. I'll be on cw and the digital modes.
                      > >
                      > > Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                      > > From: oe3epw@...
                      > > Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 10:40:44 +0100
                      > > Subject: Re: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Hello All,
                      > >
                      > > I fully agree on that being said about the behave of DXpeditions. But I strongly disagree on Scotts QRG-suggestion ".130 - .135"!
                      > >
                      > > Following the IARU bandplan for region 1 this part of 30m is to be used for CW exclusively. In other words HAMs in region 1 would not be able to have any digi mode contact (except CW of course).
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Here is the IARU text on that matter ...
                      > >
                      > > #######################################################################
                      > >
                      > > 10100 - 10140 200 CW, 10116 kHz - QRP Centre of Activity
                      > > 10140 - 10150 500 Narrow band modes ? digimodes
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Narrow band modes: All modes using up to 500 Hz bandwidth, including CW, RTTY, PSK etc.
                      > >
                      > > Digimodes: Any digital mode used within the appropriate bandwidth, for example RTTY, PSK, MT63 etc
                      > >
                      > > #######################################################################
                      > >
                      > > Well, at least here in lovely Austria these IARU recommendations have been strictly followed and put into valid Governmental law.
                      > >
                      > > I know what I'm talking about as years ago I had my own experience on this matter. Making an RTTY contact on 10135 on Tuesday was directly followed by a visit of a Government official on Thursday same week :'( .
                      > >
                      > > So, please don't even think about to make the range ".130 - .135" as recommendation on "30MDG" website>:o . Keep always in mind that the whole globe is divided into 3 different regions with (unfortunately) different Governmental bans and rules.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > 73 de Pez, OE3EPW
                      > > <oe3epw@...>
                      > >
                      > > AR SK
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Am 24.03.2011 21:30, schrieb dl6xaz:
                      > > Hi all,
                      > > thanks to all your replies, and indeed it should be seriously considered issueing a recommendation on the 30mDG-site in that sense. What so deeply disappoints me is not the ignorance of certain hams when they spread out over 1-10 up, but the attitude of those dxpedition-operators who do either not think about what they cause or, worse even, don't care at all (" we are dxpedition, what do you expect? We can do what we like...") They want to be respected for their engagement, and I am the first one to recognize their efforts. But respect is no one-way traffic, and we, the greater ham community can expect to be respected, too. If you put out your rear end out of the window, don't be surprised if there are some who will slap it.
                      > > 73 Fred DL6XAZ
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, Scott Currier<scott_currier@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > The 30MDG should recommend a portion of the band for RTTY DXing and post that recommendation on it's website.
                      > >
                      > > I think that most people would follow that recommendation and thus eliminate the problem of interference to other users.
                      > >
                      > > I suggest the portion of the band from .130 to .135.
                      > >
                      > > 73 Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                      > > From: g0uzpham@
                      > > Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 17:41:47 +0000
                      > > Subject: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > There is a solution to this on 30 MTR dxpeditions Re: digital modes..
                      > > Why do they not call on 10.137 and work down..
                      > > It has been done by some of the more clever dxpeditions.
                      > > I was one of them in the zoo for S21 that Fred talks about.
                      > > I was lucky and worked out what was going on and got them 2nd call.
                      > > That said, they were calling on 10.138 RTTY(JT65/WSPR) qrg. Working up.
                      > > The band segment for the rest of the digi section was a no no for other modes..
                      > > Do I feel guilty, as a matter of fact yes.. Knowing that there was psk31 sigs being blasted out.
                      > > Yes it is nice to get new countries. Not at the expense of others enjoyment.
                      > > The dx code of conduct should work two ways
                      > > Expeditions should recognise the mayhem they cause others whom are not interested in working them.
                      > > It's not rocket science..
                      > > Maybe a solution can be found.. It certainly needs to be brought up..
                      > >
                      > > Regards
                      > >
                      > > Paul G0UZP
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > <javascript:void(0);>
                      >


                    • Scott Currier
                      Thank you for the best wishes and the information Pez. I ve tried to operate jt65 up around 10.147, I forget the exact frequency, but didn t have any luck. I
                      Message 10 of 29 , Mar 25, 2011
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                      • 0 Attachment
                        Thank you for the best wishes and the information Pez.

                        I've tried to operate jt65 up around 10.147, I forget the exact frequency, but didn't have any luck. I am willing to switch to that frequency if we could get the word out. It's no fun calling cq up there and not getting any answers.

                        I agree with your statement about .145. I'd actually raise it to .148. That is more than 10 times the bandwidth necessary for a rtty QSO and would be more than adequate for RTTY pileups.

                        Regardless of where the best spot for rtty dxing turns out to be, once the word is out, it should help keep unnecessary interference to a minimum.

                        The other alternatives are not good ones.

                        1. Grin and bear it.
                        2. Keep your amplifier on standby.
                        3. Operate with higher power than necessary.
                        4. Jam the offending dx station.
                        5. Shut the radio off and go do something else.

                        There is room for everyone but it would be easier to fit them into 20 kHz than into 10.

                        My question for the group is why the IARU region 1 bandplan only has digital in the top 10 KHz of the band?

                        73 all and thanks for the info.

                        Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA



























                        To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                        From: oe3epw@...
                        Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 18:52:29 +0100
                        Subject: Re: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo

                         
                        Hi Scott and All,

                        To answer your questions ... NO, here in Austria there is no exception what so ever for "JT65". People transmitting below 10140 are doing it on their own risk. This might be totally different in other region 1 countries.

                        As of those RTTY-bulls ... Well, the QRG to start the "QSX UP" stampede should not be lower than 10145. By doing it that way all the other main digital modes would be able to survive further down without being killed by all those incredible 2KW/RTTY signals.

                        Talking about using BPSK31 for DXpeditions ... Seems to me to be kind of a pipe dream. I cant imagine this will ever happen. DXpeditions want to make as many contacts as possible within the shortest possible time frame. PSK31 is just to slow to fit into this requirement. PSK63 would be good, PSK125 even better and PSK250 ideal. But for different reasons all 3 of them are not that much in use by standard digi operators.

                        Anyway, finally I wish you a quick recovery on your sore throat. Have a relaxing weekend and enjoy CW!



                        Message body 73 de Pez,  OE3EPW
                         <oe3epw@...>

                        AR  SK



                        Am 25.03.2011 14:20, schrieb Scott Currier:
                        Good afternoon Pez, thank you for the information regarding digital below 10.140. The bandplan says that digital is supposed to be above .140 but I work region 1 regularly on jt65 below .140. Are they making an exception for JT65? 

                        Instead of .130 to .135 where would you suggest? If they had to pick a place between 10.140 and .150 where do you suggest it should be?

                        Unlike the more efficient and better performing digital modes, RTTY is like a bull in a china shop, people tend to run high power and ignore the signals of the more efficient and better performing modes. That being the case, RTTY should be written into the band plan somewhere and a recommendation made for DXers, otherwise you have them operating anywhere and everywhere. What about 10.149 to 10.150. It's over 5 times the bandwidth needed for one RTTY QSO and thus should be enough for pileup operation.

                        I pick on RTTY all the time but I do use it for DXing if the DX warrants it.

                        We could always recommend that "due to the small size of the world wide digital subband on 30 meters, Dxpeditions should use bpsk31 instead of RTTY because of bandwidth issues." Some people will follow the recommendation, others won't.

                        73 and good dx. I have a sore throat so I guess I won't be in the WPX contest this weekend, no loss. I'll be on cw and the digital modes.

                        Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
























                        To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                        From: oe3epw@...
                        Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 10:40:44 +0100
                        Subject: Re: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo






                        Hello All,

                        I fully agree on that being said about the behave of DXpeditions. But I strongly disagree on Scotts QRG-suggestion ".130 - .135"!

                        Following the IARU bandplan for region 1 this part of 30m is to be used for CW exclusively. In other words HAMs in region 1 would not be able to have any digi mode contact (except CW of course).


                        Here is the IARU text on that matter ...

                        #######################################################################

                        10100 - 10140 200 CW, 10116 kHz - QRP Centre of Activity
                        10140 - 10150 500 Narrow band modes � digimodes


                        Narrow band modes: All modes using up to 500 Hz bandwidth, including CW, RTTY, PSK etc.

                        Digimodes: Any digital mode used within the appropriate bandwidth, for example RTTY, PSK, MT63 etc

                        #######################################################################

                        Well, at least here in lovely Austria these IARU recommendations have been strictly followed and put into valid Governmental law.

                        I know what I'm talking about as years ago I had my own experience on this matter. Making an RTTY contact on 10135 on Tuesday was directly followed by a visit of a Government official on Thursday same week :'( .

                        So, please don't even think about to make the range ".130 - .135" as recommendation on "30MDG" website >:o . Keep always in mind that the whole globe is divided into 3 different regions with (unfortunately) different Governmental bans and rules.




                        73 de Pez, OE3EPW
                        <oe3epw@...>

                        AR SK


                        Am 24.03.2011 21:30, schrieb dl6xaz:
                        Hi all,
                        thanks to all your replies, and indeed it should be seriously considered issueing a recommendation on the 30mDG-site in that sense. What so deeply disappoints me is not the ignorance of certain hams when they spread out over 1-10 up, but the attitude of those dxpedition-operators who do either not think about what they cause or, worse even, don't care at all (" we are dxpedition, what do you expect? We can do what we like...") They want to be respected for their engagement, and I am the first one to recognize their efforts. But respect is no one-way traffic, and we, the greater ham community can expect to be respected, too. If you put out your rear end out of the window, don't be surprised if there are some who will slap it.
                        73 Fred DL6XAZ


                        --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, Scott Currier <scott_currier@...> wrote:


                        The 30MDG should recommend a portion of the band for RTTY DXing and post that recommendation on it's website.

                        I think that most people would follow that recommendation and thus eliminate the problem of interference to other users.

                        I suggest the portion of the band from .130 to .135.

                        73 Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA

























                        To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                        From: g0uzpham@...
                        Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 17:41:47 +0000
                        Subject: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo







                        There is a solution to this on 30 MTR dxpeditions Re: digital modes..
                        Why do they not call on 10.137 and work down..
                        It has been done by some of the more clever dxpeditions.
                        I was one of them in the zoo for S21 that Fred talks about.
                        I was lucky and worked out what was going on and got them 2nd call.
                        That said, they were calling on 10.138 RTTY(JT65/WSPR) qrg. Working up.
                        The band segment for the rest of the digi section was a no no for other modes..
                        Do I feel guilty, as a matter of fact yes.. Knowing that there was psk31 sigs being blasted out.
                        Yes it is nice to get new countries. Not at the expense of others enjoyment.
                        The dx code of conduct should work two ways
                        Expeditions should recognise the mayhem they cause others whom are not interested in working them.
                        It's not rocket science..
                        Maybe a solution can be found.. It certainly needs to be brought up..

                        Regards

                        Paul G0UZP










                      • Joe Brown
                        Scott, #2 is unnecessary since we re restricted to 200 watts PEP on 30 meters. 73 – Joe W2JLB ... Scott, #2 is unnecessary since we re restricted to 200
                        Message 11 of 29 , Mar 25, 2011
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                          Scott, #2 is unnecessary since we're restricted to 200 watts PEP on 30 meters.
                          73 – Joe W2JLB
                          

                          On 3/25/2011 4:02 PM, Scott Currier wrote:
                           

                          Thank you for the best wishes and the information Pez.

                          I've tried to operate jt65 up around 10.147, I forget the exact frequency, but didn't have any luck. I am willing to switch to that frequency if we could get the word out. It's no fun calling cq up there and not getting any answers.

                          I agree with your statement about .145. I'd actually raise it to .148. That is more than 10 times the bandwidth necessary for a rtty QSO and would be more than adequate for RTTY pileups.

                          Regardless of where the best spot for rtty dxing turns out to be, once the word is out, it should help keep unnecessary interference to a minimum.

                          The other alternatives are not good ones.

                          1. Grin and bear it.
                          2. Keep your amplifier on standby.
                          3. Operate with higher power than necessary.
                          4. Jam the offending dx station.
                          5. Shut the radio off and go do something else.

                          There is room for everyone but it would be easier to fit them into 20 kHz than into 10.

                          My question for the group is why the IARU region 1 bandplan only has digital in the top 10 KHz of the band?

                          73 all and thanks for the info.

                          Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA



























                          To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                          From: oe3epw@...
                          Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 18:52:29 +0100
                          Subject: Re: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo

                           
                          Hi Scott and All,

                          To answer your questions ... NO, here in Austria there is no exception what so ever for "JT65". People transmitting below 10140 are doing it on their own risk. This might be totally different in other region 1 countries.

                          As of those RTTY-bulls ... Well, the QRG to start the "QSX UP" stampede should not be lower than 10145. By doing it that way all the other main digital modes would be able to survive further down without being killed by all those incredible 2KW/RTTY signals.

                          Talking about using BPSK31 for DXpeditions ... Seems to me to be kind of a pipe dream. I cant imagine this will ever happen. DXpeditions want to make as many contacts as possible within the shortest possible time frame. PSK31 is just to slow to fit into this requirement. PSK63 would be good, PSK125 even better and PSK250 ideal. But for different reasons all 3 of them are not that much in use by standard digi operators.

                          Anyway, finally I wish you a quick recovery on your sore throat. Have a relaxing weekend and enjoy CW!



                          Message body 73 de Pez,  OE3EPW
                           <oe3epw@...>

                          AR  SK



                          Am 25.03.2011 14:20, schrieb Scott Currier:
                          Good afternoon Pez, thank you for the information regarding digital below 10.140. The bandplan says that digital is supposed to be above .140 but I work region 1 regularly on jt65 below .140. Are they making an exception for JT65? 
                           
                          Instead of .130 to .135 where would you suggest? If they had to pick a place between 10.140 and .150 where do you suggest it should be? 
                           
                          Unlike the more efficient and better performing digital modes, RTTY is like a bull in a china shop, people tend to run high power and ignore the signals of the more efficient and better performing modes. That being the case, RTTY should be written into the band plan somewhere and a recommendation made for DXers, otherwise you have them operating anywhere and everywhere.  What about 10.149 to 10.150. It's over 5 times the bandwidth needed for one RTTY QSO and thus should be enough for pileup operation. 
                          
                          I pick on RTTY all the time but I do use it for DXing if the DX warrants it. 
                           
                          We could always recommend that "due to the small size of the world wide digital subband on 30 meters, Dxpeditions should use bpsk31 instead of RTTY because of bandwidth issues." Some people will follow the recommendation, others won't. 
                           
                          73 and good dx. I have a sore throat so I guess I won't be in the WPX contest this weekend, no loss. I'll be on cw and the digital modes. 
                           
                          Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          
                           
                          
                          
                          To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                          From: oe3epw@...
                          Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 10:40:44 +0100
                          Subject: Re: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo
                          
                          
                            
                          
                          
                          
                          Hello All,
                          
                          I fully agree on that being said about the behave of DXpeditions. But I strongly disagree on Scotts QRG-suggestion ".130 - .135"!
                          
                          Following the IARU bandplan for region 1 this part of 30m is to be used for CW exclusively. In other words HAMs in region 1 would not be able to have any digi mode contact (except CW of course).
                          
                          
                          Here is the IARU text on that matter ...
                          
                          #######################################################################
                          
                          10100 - 10140  200  CW,  10116 kHz -  QRP Centre of Activity
                          10140 - 10150  500  Narrow band modes � digimodes 
                          
                          
                          Narrow band modes: All modes using up to 500 Hz bandwidth, including CW, RTTY, PSK etc. 
                          
                          Digimodes: Any digital mode used within the appropriate bandwidth, for example RTTY, PSK, MT63 etc
                          
                          #######################################################################
                          
                          Well, at least here in lovely Austria these IARU recommendations have been strictly followed and put into valid Governmental law.
                          
                          I know what I'm talking about as years ago I had my own experience on this matter. Making an RTTY contact on 10135 on Tuesday was directly followed by a visit of a Government official on Thursday same week :'( .
                          
                          So, please don't even think about to make the range ".130 - .135" as recommendation on "30MDG" website >:o . Keep always in mind that the whole globe is divided into 3 different regions with (unfortunately) different Governmental bans and rules.
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          73 de Pez,  OE3EPW
                           <oe3epw@...>
                          
                          AR  SK
                          
                          
                          Am 24.03.2011 21:30, schrieb dl6xaz: 
                          Hi all,
                          thanks to all your replies, and indeed it should be seriously considered issueing a recommendation on the 30mDG-site in that sense. What so deeply disappoints me is not the ignorance of certain hams when they spread out over 1-10 up, but the attitude of those dxpedition-operators who do either not think about what they cause or, worse even, don't care at all (" we are dxpedition, what do you expect? We can do what we like...") They want to be respected for their engagement, and I am the first one to recognize their efforts. But respect is no one-way traffic, and we, the greater ham community can expect to be respected, too. If you put out your rear end out of the window, don't be surprised if there are some who will slap it.
                          73 Fred DL6XAZ
                          
                          
                          --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, Scott Currier <scott_currier@...> wrote:
                          
                          
                          The 30MDG should recommend a portion of the band for RTTY DXing and post that recommendation on it's website. 
                           
                          I think that most people would follow that recommendation and thus eliminate the problem of interference to other users. 
                           
                          I suggest the portion of the band from .130 to .135. 
                           
                          73 Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          
                           
                          
                          
                          To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                          From: g0uzpham@...
                          Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 17:41:47 +0000
                          Subject: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo
                          
                          
                            
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          There is a solution to this on 30 MTR dxpeditions Re: digital modes..
                          Why do they not call on 10.137 and work down..
                          It has been done by some of the more clever dxpeditions.
                          I was one of them in the zoo for S21 that Fred talks about. 
                          I was lucky and worked out what was going on and got them 2nd call.
                          That said, they were calling on 10.138 RTTY(JT65/WSPR) qrg. Working up.
                          The band segment for the rest of the digi section was a no no for other modes.. 
                          Do I feel guilty, as a matter of fact yes.. Knowing that there was psk31 sigs being blasted out.
                          Yes it is nice to get new countries. Not at the expense of others enjoyment.
                          The dx code of conduct should work two ways 
                          Expeditions should  recognise the mayhem they cause others whom are not interested in working them.
                          It's not rocket science..
                          Maybe a solution can be found.. It certainly needs to be brought up..
                           
                          Regards
                           
                          Paul G0UZP
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          
                          
                           		 	   		  
                          

                        • dl6xaz
                          Hi Scott and all, I do not favour 10147 because exactly there we got the nuisance of some /MM network working with highly distorted and overpowered
                          Message 12 of 29 , Mar 26, 2011
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                            Hi Scott and all,
                            I do not favour 10147 because exactly there we got the nuisance of some /MM network working with highly distorted and overpowered transmissions all day long; they use all possible modes up to 500 Hz b/w for some people sailing around and giving position reports. On 10148 there is regular traffic in APRS packet. The range between 10144/146 is relatively less used and quiet.
                            As for the discrepancy between Regions 1 and 2/3 I have got no clue as to why this was adopted.
                            vy73 Fred DL6XAZ

                            --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, Scott Currier <scott_currier@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > Thank you for the best wishes and the information Pez.
                            >
                            > I've tried to operate jt65 up around 10.147, I forget the exact frequency, but didn't have any luck. I am willing to switch to that frequency if we could get the word out. It's no fun calling cq up there and not getting any answers.
                            >
                            > I agree with your statement about .145. I'd actually raise it to .148. That is more than 10 times the bandwidth necessary for a rtty QSO and would be more than adequate for RTTY pileups.
                            >
                            > Regardless of where the best spot for rtty dxing turns out to be, once the word is out, it should help keep unnecessary interference to a minimum.
                            >
                            > The other alternatives are not good ones.
                            >
                            > 1. Grin and bear it.
                            > 2. Keep your amplifier on standby.
                            > 3. Operate with higher power than necessary.
                            > 4. Jam the offending dx station.
                            > 5. Shut the radio off and go do something else.
                            >
                            > There is room for everyone but it would be easier to fit them into 20 kHz than into 10.
                            >
                            > My question for the group is why the IARU region 1 bandplan only has digital in the top 10 KHz of the band?
                            >
                            > 73 all and thanks for the info.
                            >
                            > Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
                            >
                            >
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                            >
                            >
                            >
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                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                            > From: oe3epw@...
                            > Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 18:52:29 +0100
                            > Subject: Re: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
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                            >
                            >
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                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Hi Scott and All,
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > To answer your questions ... NO, here in Austria there is no
                            > exception what so ever for "JT65". People transmitting below 10140
                            > are doing it on their own risk. This might be totally different in
                            > other region 1 countries.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > As of those RTTY-bulls ... Well, the QRG to start the "QSX UP"
                            > stampede should not be lower than 10145. By doing it that way all
                            > the other main digital modes would be able to survive further down
                            > without being killed by all those incredible 2KW/RTTY signals.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Talking about using BPSK31 for DXpeditions ... Seems to me to be
                            > kind of a pipe dream. I cant imagine this will ever happen.
                            > DXpeditions want to make as many contacts as possible within the
                            > shortest possible time frame. PSK31 is just to slow to fit into this
                            > requirement. PSK63 would be good, PSK125 even better and PSK250
                            > ideal. But for different reasons all 3 of them are not that much in
                            > use by standard digi operators.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Anyway, finally I wish you a quick recovery on your sore throat.
                            > Have a relaxing weekend and enjoy CW!
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Message body
                            > 73 de Pez, OE3EPW
                            >
                            > <oe3epw@...>
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > AR SK
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Am 25.03.2011 14:20, schrieb Scott Currier:
                            >
                            > Good afternoon Pez, thank you for the information regarding digital below 10.140. The bandplan says that digital is supposed to be above .140 but I work region 1 regularly on jt65 below .140. Are they making an exception for JT65?
                            >
                            > Instead of .130 to .135 where would you suggest? If they had to pick a place between 10.140 and .150 where do you suggest it should be?
                            >
                            > Unlike the more efficient and better performing digital modes, RTTY is like a bull in a china shop, people tend to run high power and ignore the signals of the more efficient and better performing modes. That being the case, RTTY should be written into the band plan somewhere and a recommendation made for DXers, otherwise you have them operating anywhere and everywhere. What about 10.149 to 10.150. It's over 5 times the bandwidth needed for one RTTY QSO and thus should be enough for pileup operation.
                            >
                            > I pick on RTTY all the time but I do use it for DXing if the DX warrants it.
                            >
                            > We could always recommend that "due to the small size of the world wide digital subband on 30 meters, Dxpeditions should use bpsk31 instead of RTTY because of bandwidth issues." Some people will follow the recommendation, others won't.
                            >
                            > 73 and good dx. I have a sore throat so I guess I won't be in the WPX contest this weekend, no loss. I'll be on cw and the digital modes.
                            >
                            > Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
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                            >
                            >
                            > To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                            > From: oe3epw@...
                            > Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 10:40:44 +0100
                            > Subject: Re: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Hello All,
                            >
                            > I fully agree on that being said about the behave of DXpeditions. But I strongly disagree on Scotts QRG-suggestion ".130 - .135"!
                            >
                            > Following the IARU bandplan for region 1 this part of 30m is to be used for CW exclusively. In other words HAMs in region 1 would not be able to have any digi mode contact (except CW of course).
                            >
                            >
                            > Here is the IARU text on that matter ...
                            >
                            > #######################################################################
                            >
                            > 10100 - 10140 200 CW, 10116 kHz - QRP Centre of Activity
                            > 10140 - 10150 500 Narrow band modes � digimodes
                            >
                            >
                            > Narrow band modes: All modes using up to 500 Hz bandwidth, including CW, RTTY, PSK etc.
                            >
                            > Digimodes: Any digital mode used within the appropriate bandwidth, for example RTTY, PSK, MT63 etc
                            >
                            > #######################################################################
                            >
                            > Well, at least here in lovely Austria these IARU recommendations have been strictly followed and put into valid Governmental law.
                            >
                            > I know what I'm talking about as years ago I had my own experience on this matter. Making an RTTY contact on 10135 on Tuesday was directly followed by a visit of a Government official on Thursday same week :'( .
                            >
                            > So, please don't even think about to make the range ".130 - .135" as recommendation on "30MDG" website >:o . Keep always in mind that the whole globe is divided into 3 different regions with (unfortunately) different Governmental bans and rules.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > 73 de Pez, OE3EPW
                            > <oe3epw@...>
                            >
                            > AR SK
                            >
                            >
                            > Am 24.03.2011 21:30, schrieb dl6xaz:
                            > Hi all,
                            > thanks to all your replies, and indeed it should be seriously considered issueing a recommendation on the 30mDG-site in that sense. What so deeply disappoints me is not the ignorance of certain hams when they spread out over 1-10 up, but the attitude of those dxpedition-operators who do either not think about what they cause or, worse even, don't care at all (" we are dxpedition, what do you expect? We can do what we like...") They want to be respected for their engagement, and I am the first one to recognize their efforts. But respect is no one-way traffic, and we, the greater ham community can expect to be respected, too. If you put out your rear end out of the window, don't be surprised if there are some who will slap it.
                            > 73 Fred DL6XAZ
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, Scott Currier <scott_currier@> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > The 30MDG should recommend a portion of the band for RTTY DXing and post that recommendation on it's website.
                            >
                            > I think that most people would follow that recommendation and thus eliminate the problem of interference to other users.
                            >
                            > I suggest the portion of the band from .130 to .135.
                            >
                            > 73 Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                            > From: g0uzpham@
                            > Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 17:41:47 +0000
                            > Subject: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > There is a solution to this on 30 MTR dxpeditions Re: digital modes..
                            > Why do they not call on 10.137 and work down..
                            > It has been done by some of the more clever dxpeditions.
                            > I was one of them in the zoo for S21 that Fred talks about.
                            > I was lucky and worked out what was going on and got them 2nd call.
                            > That said, they were calling on 10.138 RTTY(JT65/WSPR) qrg. Working up.
                            > The band segment for the rest of the digi section was a no no for other modes..
                            > Do I feel guilty, as a matter of fact yes.. Knowing that there was psk31 sigs being blasted out.
                            > Yes it is nice to get new countries. Not at the expense of others enjoyment.
                            > The dx code of conduct should work two ways
                            > Expeditions should recognise the mayhem they cause others whom are not interested in working them.
                            > It's not rocket science..
                            > Maybe a solution can be found.. It certainly needs to be brought up..
                            >
                            > Regards
                            >
                            > Paul G0UZP
                            >
                          • Scott Currier
                            You re right Joe, two three and four are not legal although many countries do have a higher power limit than 200 watts. I think I saw you on 30 today on JT65.
                            Message 13 of 29 , Mar 26, 2011
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                              You're right Joe, two three and four are not legal although many countries do have a higher power limit than 200 watts.

                              I think I saw you on 30 today on JT65. Are you doing any jt65 on 12 or 17? If so, please give me a call if you see me on. 

                              73 and good dx

                              Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA






















                              To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                              From: w2jlb1@...
                              Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 20:08:40 -0400
                              Subject: Re: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo

                               
                              Scott, #2 is unnecessary since we're restricted to 200 watts PEP on 30 meters.

                              73 – Joe W2JLB

                              On 3/25/2011 4:02 PM, Scott Currier wrote:
                               
                              Thank you for the best wishes and the information Pez.

                              I've tried to operate jt65 up around 10.147, I forget the exact frequency, but didn't have any luck. I am willing to switch to that frequency if we could get the word out. It's no fun calling cq up there and not getting any answers.

                              I agree with your statement about .145. I'd actually raise it to .148. That is more than 10 times the bandwidth necessary for a rtty QSO and would be more than adequate for RTTY pileups.

                              Regardless of where the best spot for rtty dxing turns out to be, once the word is out, it should help keep unnecessary interference to a minimum.

                              The other alternatives are not good ones.

                              1. Grin and bear it.
                              2. Keep your amplifier on standby.
                              3. Operate with higher power than necessary.
                              4. Jam the offending dx station.
                              5. Shut the radio off and go do something else.

                              There is room for everyone but it would be easier to fit them into 20 kHz than into 10.

                              My question for the group is why the IARU region 1 bandplan only has digital in the top 10 KHz of the band?

                              73 all and thanks for the info.

                              Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA




























                              To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                              From: oe3epw@...
                              Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 18:52:29 +0100
                              Subject: Re: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo

                               
                              Hi Scott and All,

                              To answer your questions ... NO, here in Austria there is no exception what so ever for "JT65". People transmitting below 10140 are doing it on their own risk. This might be totally different in other region 1 countries.

                              As of those RTTY-bulls ... Well, the QRG to start the "QSX UP" stampede should not be lower than 10145. By doing it that way all the other main digital modes would be able to survive further down without being killed by all those incredible 2KW/RTTY signals.

                              Talking about using BPSK31 for DXpeditions ... Seems to me to be kind of a pipe dream. I cant imagine this will ever happen. DXpeditions want to make as many contacts as possible within the shortest possible time frame. PSK31 is just to slow to fit into this requirement. PSK63 would be good, PSK125 even better and PSK250 ideal. But for different reasons all 3 of them are not that much in use by standard digi operators.

                              Anyway, finally I wish you a quick recovery on your sore throat. Have a relaxing weekend and enjoy CW!



                              Message body 73 de Pez,  OE3EPW
                               <oe3epw@...>

                              AR  SK



                              Am 25.03.2011 14:20, schrieb Scott Currier:
                              Good afternoon Pez, thank you for the information regarding digital below 10.140. The bandplan says that digital is supposed to be above .140 but I work region 1 regularly on jt65 below .140. Are they making an exception for JT65? 

                              Instead of .130 to .135 where would you suggest? If they had to pick a place between 10.140 and .150 where do you suggest it should be?

                              Unlike the more efficient and better performing digital modes, RTTY is like a bull in a china shop, people tend to run high power and ignore the signals of the more efficient and better performing modes. That being the case, RTTY should be written into the band plan somewhere and a recommendation made for DXers, otherwise you have them operating anywhere and everywhere. What about 10.149 to 10.150. It's over 5 times the bandwidth needed for one RTTY QSO and thus should be enough for pileup operation.

                              I pick on RTTY all the time but I do use it for DXing if the DX warrants it.

                              We could always recommend that "due to the small size of the world wide digital subband on 30 meters, Dxpeditions should use bpsk31 instead of RTTY because of bandwidth issues." Some people will follow the recommendation, others won't.

                              73 and good dx. I have a sore throat so I guess I won't be in the WPX contest this weekend, no loss. I'll be on cw and the digital modes.

                              Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
























                              To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com From: oe3epw@... Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 10:40:44 +0100 Subject: Re: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo Hello All, I fully agree on that being said about the behave of DXpeditions. But I strongly disagree on Scotts QRG-suggestion ".130 - .135"! Following the IARU bandplan for region 1 this part of 30m is to be used for CW exclusively. In other words HAMs in region 1 would not be able to have any digi mode contact (except CW of course). Here is the IARU text on that matter ... ####################################################################### 10100 - 10140 200 CW, 10116 kHz - QRP Centre of Activity 10140 - 10150 500 Narrow band modes � digimodes Narrow band modes: All modes using up to 500 Hz bandwidth, including CW, RTTY, PSK etc. Digimodes: Any digital mode used within the appropriate bandwidth, for example RTTY, PSK, MT63 etc ####################################################################### Well, at least here in lovely Austria these IARU recommendations have been strictly followed and put into valid Governmental law. I know what I'm talking about as years ago I had my own experience on this matter. Making an RTTY contact on 10135 on Tuesday was directly followed by a visit of a Government official on Thursday same week :'( . So, please don't even think about to make the range ".130 - .135" as recommendation on "30MDG" website >:o . Keep always in mind that the whole globe is divided into 3 different regions with (unfortunately) different Governmental bans and rules. 73 de Pez, OE3EPW <oe3epw@...> AR SK Am 24.03.2011 21:30, schrieb dl6xaz: Hi all, thanks to all your replies, and indeed it should be seriously considered issueing a recommendation on the 30mDG-site in that sense. What so deeply disappoints me is not the ignorance of certain hams when they spread out over 1-10 up, but the attitude of those dxpedition-operators who do either not think about what they cause or, worse even, don't care at all (" we are dxpedition, what do you expect? We can do what we like...") They want to be respected for their engagement, and I am the first one to recognize their efforts. But respect is no one-way traffic, and we, the greater ham community can expect to be respected, too. If you put out your rear end out of the window, don't be surprised if there are some who will slap it. 73 Fred DL6XAZ --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, Scott Currier <scott_currier@...> wrote:


                              The 30MDG should recommend a portion of the band for RTTY DXing and post that recommendation on it's website.

                              I think that most people would follow that recommendation and thus eliminate the problem of interference to other users.

                              I suggest the portion of the band from .130 to .135.

                              73 Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA

























                              To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com From: g0uzpham@... Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 17:41:47 +0000 Subject: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo There is a solution to this on 30 MTR dxpeditions Re: digital modes.. Why do they not call on 10.137 and work down.. It has been done by some of the more clever dxpeditions. I was one of them in the zoo for S21 that Fred talks about. I was lucky and worked out what was going on and got them 2nd call. That said, they were calling on 10.138 RTTY(JT65/WSPR) qrg. Working up. The band segment for the rest of the digi section was a no no for other modes.. Do I feel guilty, as a matter of fact yes.. Knowing that there was psk31 sigs being blasted out. Yes it is nice to get new countries. Not at the expense of others enjoyment. The dx code of conduct should work two ways Expeditions should recognise the mayhem they cause others whom are not interested in working them. It's not rocket science.. Maybe a solution can be found.. It certainly needs to be brought up.. Regards Paul G0UZP


                            • Scott Currier
                              Thank you Fred, yes I ran into those stations last nite when I tuned up to 10.147 to see about working jt65 there. 144 to 146 sounds like it s gonna have to
                              Message 14 of 29 , Mar 26, 2011
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                                Thank you Fred, yes I ran into those stations last nite when I tuned up to 10.147 to see about working jt65 there.

                                144 to 146 sounds like it's gonna have to do.

                                Thanks for the JT65 qso today.  5w into the vertical did a fine job. Would never have known you were qrp.

                                Thanks for sending the picture of your antennas. Did my reply to that message make it through to you or did the spam filter zap the message?

                                Worked fp/w6??? on 30 meter rtty yesterday or the day before. He was on about 10.137 working down. I put the radio on LSB instead of the normal USB for digital modes and worked him. I'm used to having the DX on the left side of the display and transmitting somewhere on the right. LSB mode allowed me to do that even though he was working down instead of up. It was nice that he was working down because he wasn't interfering with JT65 and neither were the people trying to work him.

                                I think that more stations will probably be tempted to use the space between .130 and .137 or so. Outdated band plans will need to be updated at some point to better reflect reality. 

                                I did work a station on 10.131 cw. Forget where it was but it was a dx station. Surprised, don't usually hear cw up that high.

                                Was hoping to work the Vu4 dxpedition on 30 meters but I have not heard them as of yet. I've seen them spotted but they weren't making it this far. I did catch them on 20 cw and am in the log.

                                73 and good dx

                                Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA





















                                To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                                From: dl6xaz@...
                                Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 13:09:08 +0000
                                Subject: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo

                                 
                                Hi Scott and all,
                                I do not favour 10147 because exactly there we got the nuisance of some /MM network working with highly distorted and overpowered transmissions all day long; they use all possible modes up to 500 Hz b/w for some people sailing around and giving position reports. On 10148 there is regular traffic in APRS packet. The range between 10144/146 is relatively less used and quiet.
                                As for the discrepancy between Regions 1 and 2/3 I have got no clue as to why this was adopted.
                                vy73 Fred DL6XAZ

                                --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, Scott Currier <scott_currier@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > Thank you for the best wishes and the information Pez.
                                >
                                > I've tried to operate jt65 up around 10.147, I forget the exact frequency, but didn't have any luck. I am willing to switch to that frequency if we could get the word out. It's no fun calling cq up there and not getting any answers.
                                >
                                > I agree with your statement about .145. I'd actually raise it to .148. That is more than 10 times the bandwidth necessary for a rtty QSO and would be more than adequate for RTTY pileups.
                                >
                                > Regardless of where the best spot for rtty dxing turns out to be, once the word is out, it should help keep unnecessary interference to a minimum.
                                >
                                > The other alternatives are not good ones.
                                >
                                > 1. Grin and bear it.
                                > 2. Keep your amplifier on standby.
                                > 3. Operate with higher power than necessary.
                                > 4. Jam the offending dx station.
                                > 5. Shut the radio off and go do something else.
                                >
                                > There is room for everyone but it would be easier to fit them into 20 kHz than into 10.
                                >
                                > My question for the group is why the IARU region 1 bandplan only has digital in the top 10 KHz of the band?
                                >
                                > 73 all and thanks for the info.
                                >
                                > Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
                                >
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                                >
                                > To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                                > From: oe3epw@...
                                > Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 18:52:29 +0100
                                > Subject: Re: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo
                                >
                                >
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                                >
                                > Hi Scott and All,
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > To answer your questions ... NO, here in Austria there is no
                                > exception what so ever for "JT65". People transmitting below 10140
                                > are doing it on their own risk. This might be totally different in
                                > other region 1 countries.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > As of those RTTY-bulls ... Well, the QRG to start the "QSX UP"
                                > stampede should not be lower than 10145. By doing it that way all
                                > the other main digital modes would be able to survive further down
                                > without being killed by all those incredible 2KW/RTTY signals.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Talking about using BPSK31 for DXpeditions ... Seems to me to be
                                > kind of a pipe dream. I cant imagine this will ever happen.
                                > DXpeditions want to make as many contacts as possible within the
                                > shortest possible time frame. PSK31 is just to slow to fit into this
                                > requirement. PSK63 would be good, PSK125 even better and PSK250
                                > ideal. But for different reasons all 3 of them are not that much in
                                > use by standard digi operators.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Anyway, finally I wish you a quick recovery on your sore throat.
                                > Have a relaxing weekend and enjoy CW!
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Message body
                                > 73 de Pez, OE3EPW
                                >
                                > <oe3epw@...>
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > AR SK
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Am 25.03.2011 14:20, schrieb Scott Currier:
                                >
                                > Good afternoon Pez, thank you for the information regarding digital below 10.140. The bandplan says that digital is supposed to be above .140 but I work region 1 regularly on jt65 below .140. Are they making an exception for JT65?
                                >
                                > Instead of .130 to .135 where would you suggest? If they had to pick a place between 10.140 and .150 where do you suggest it should be?
                                >
                                > Unlike the more efficient and better performing digital modes, RTTY is like a bull in a china shop, people tend to run high power and ignore the signals of the more efficient and better performing modes. That being the case, RTTY should be written into the band plan somewhere and a recommendation made for DXers, otherwise you have them operating anywhere and everywhere. What about 10.149 to 10.150. It's over 5 times the bandwidth needed for one RTTY QSO and thus should be enough for pileup operation.
                                >
                                > I pick on RTTY all the time but I do use it for DXing if the DX warrants it.
                                >
                                > We could always recommend that "due to the small size of the world wide digital subband on 30 meters, Dxpeditions should use bpsk31 instead of RTTY because of bandwidth issues." Some people will follow the recommendation, others won't.
                                >
                                > 73 and good dx. I have a sore throat so I guess I won't be in the WPX contest this weekend, no loss. I'll be on cw and the digital modes.
                                >
                                > Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
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                                > To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                                > From: oe3epw@...
                                > Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 10:40:44 +0100
                                > Subject: Re: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Hello All,
                                >
                                > I fully agree on that being said about the behave of DXpeditions. But I strongly disagree on Scotts QRG-suggestion ".130 - .135"!
                                >
                                > Following the IARU bandplan for region 1 this part of 30m is to be used for CW exclusively. In other words HAMs in region 1 would not be able to have any digi mode contact (except CW of course).
                                >
                                >
                                > Here is the IARU text on that matter ...
                                >
                                > #######################################################################
                                >
                                > 10100 - 10140 200 CW, 10116 kHz - QRP Centre of Activity
                                > 10140 - 10150 500 Narrow band modes � digimodes
                                >
                                >
                                > Narrow band modes: All modes using up to 500 Hz bandwidth, including CW, RTTY, PSK etc.
                                >
                                > Digimodes: Any digital mode used within the appropriate bandwidth, for example RTTY, PSK, MT63 etc
                                >
                                > #######################################################################
                                >
                                > Well, at least here in lovely Austria these IARU recommendations have been strictly followed and put into valid Governmental law.
                                >
                                > I know what I'm talking about as years ago I had my own experience on this matter. Making an RTTY contact on 10135 on Tuesday was directly followed by a visit of a Government official on Thursday same week :'( .
                                >
                                > So, please don't even think about to make the range ".130 - .135" as recommendation on "30MDG" website >:o . Keep always in mind that the whole globe is divided into 3 different regions with (unfortunately) different Governmental bans and rules.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > 73 de Pez, OE3EPW
                                > <oe3epw@...>
                                >
                                > AR SK
                                >
                                >
                                > Am 24.03.2011 21:30, schrieb dl6xaz:
                                > Hi all,
                                > thanks to all your replies, and indeed it should be seriously considered issueing a recommendation on the 30mDG-site in that sense. What so deeply disappoints me is not the ignorance of certain hams when they spread out over 1-10 up, but the attitude of those dxpedition-operators who do either not think about what they cause or, worse even, don't care at all (" we are dxpedition, what do you expect? We can do what we like...") They want to be respected for their engagement, and I am the first one to recognize their efforts. But respect is no one-way traffic, and we, the greater ham community can expect to be respected, too. If you put out your rear end out of the window, don't be surprised if there are some who will slap it.
                                > 73 Fred DL6XAZ
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, Scott Currier <scott_currier@> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > The 30MDG should recommend a portion of the band for RTTY DXing and post that recommendation on it's website.
                                >
                                > I think that most people would follow that recommendation and thus eliminate the problem of interference to other users.
                                >
                                > I suggest the portion of the band from .130 to .135.
                                >
                                > 73 Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
                                >
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                                > To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                                > From: g0uzpham@
                                > Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 17:41:47 +0000
                                > Subject: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > There is a solution to this on 30 MTR dxpeditions Re: digital modes..
                                > Why do they not call on 10.137 and work down..
                                > It has been done by some of the more clever dxpeditions.
                                > I was one of them in the zoo for S21 that Fred talks about.
                                > I was lucky and worked out what was going on and got them 2nd call.
                                > That said, they were calling on 10.138 RTTY(JT65/WSPR) qrg. Working up.
                                > The band segment for the rest of the digi section was a no no for other modes..
                                > Do I feel guilty, as a matter of fact yes.. Knowing that there was psk31 sigs being blasted out.
                                > Yes it is nice to get new countries. Not at the expense of others enjoyment.
                                > The dx code of conduct should work two ways
                                > Expeditions should recognise the mayhem they cause others whom are not interested in working them.
                                > It's not rocket science..
                                > Maybe a solution can be found.. It certainly needs to be brought up..
                                >
                                > Regards
                                >
                                > Paul G0UZP
                                >


                              • dl6xaz
                                Norning Scott, yes thank you, that mail arrived, is in the -to reply- folder. Also much obliged by the jt65 QSO; I thought I might use you as a voluntary
                                Message 15 of 29 , Mar 27, 2011
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                                  Norning Scott,
                                  yes thank you, that mail arrived, is in the -to reply- folder. Also much obliged by the jt65 QSO; I thought I might use you as a voluntary victim for a QRP try, and I was truly amazed at your report. So condx must have been outstanding, but when I later called CQ in psk31 there were only Russian and Spanish stns visible, nothing from statside.
                                  I heard VU4 on several occasions but only managed working them in CW last week on 10106. S21 was a no-no due to the brickwall, but I dislike rtty anyway, for the reasons discussed earlier. FP/W6 was worked on 17m but not heard on 30m.
                                  As for working LSB, sometimes I believe that the operator simply doesn't pay attention to the sideband as some rigs switch to LSB automatically below 20m, however we got the agreement to work digimodes in USB in general. But LSB can be useful, as you mention.
                                  Shall write direct soon.
                                  Thanks again, vy73 to all, - Fred DL6XAZ

                                  --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, Scott Currier <scott_currier@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Thank you Fred, yes I ran into those stations last nite when I tuned up to 10.147 to see about working jt65 there.
                                  >
                                  > 144 to 146 sounds like it's gonna have to do.
                                  >
                                  > Thanks for the JT65 qso today. 5w into the vertical did a fine job. Would never have known you were qrp.
                                  >
                                  > Thanks for sending the picture of your antennas. Did my reply to that message make it through to you or did the spam filter zap the message?
                                  >
                                  > Worked fp/w6??? on 30 meter rtty yesterday or the day before. He was on about 10.137 working down. I put the radio on LSB instead of the normal USB for digital modes and worked him. I'm used to having the DX on the left side of the display and transmitting somewhere on the right. LSB mode allowed me to do that even though he was working down instead of up. It was nice that he was working down because he wasn't interfering with JT65 and neither were the people trying to work him.
                                  >
                                  > I think that more stations will probably be tempted to use the space between .130 and .137 or so. Outdated band plans will need to be updated at some point to better reflect reality.
                                  >
                                  > I did work a station on 10.131 cw. Forget where it was but it was a dx station. Surprised, don't usually hear cw up that high.
                                  >
                                  > Was hoping to work the Vu4 dxpedition on 30 meters but I have not heard them as of yet. I've seen them spotted but they weren't making it this far. I did catch them on 20 cw and am in the log.
                                  >
                                  > 73 and good dx
                                  >
                                  > Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
                                  >
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                                  > To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                                  > From: dl6xaz@...
                                  > Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 13:09:08 +0000
                                  > Subject: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo
                                  >
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                                  >
                                  > Hi Scott and all,
                                  >
                                  > I do not favour 10147 because exactly there we got the nuisance of some /MM network working with highly distorted and overpowered transmissions all day long; they use all possible modes up to 500 Hz b/w for some people sailing around and giving position reports. On 10148 there is regular traffic in APRS packet. The range between 10144/146 is relatively less used and quiet.
                                  >
                                  > As for the discrepancy between Regions 1 and 2/3 I have got no clue as to why this was adopted.
                                  >
                                  > vy73 Fred DL6XAZ
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, Scott Currier <scott_currier@> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Thank you for the best wishes and the information Pez.
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > I've tried to operate jt65 up around 10.147, I forget the exact frequency, but didn't have any luck. I am willing to switch to that frequency if we could get the word out. It's no fun calling cq up there and not getting any answers.
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > I agree with your statement about .145. I'd actually raise it to .148. That is more than 10 times the bandwidth necessary for a rtty QSO and would be more than adequate for RTTY pileups.
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Regardless of where the best spot for rtty dxing turns out to be, once the word is out, it should help keep unnecessary interference to a minimum.
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > The other alternatives are not good ones.
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > 1. Grin and bear it.
                                  >
                                  > > 2. Keep your amplifier on standby.
                                  >
                                  > > 3. Operate with higher power than necessary.
                                  >
                                  > > 4. Jam the offending dx station.
                                  >
                                  > > 5. Shut the radio off and go do something else.
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > There is room for everyone but it would be easier to fit them into 20 kHz than into 10.
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > My question for the group is why the IARU region 1 bandplan only has digital in the top 10 KHz of the band?
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > 73 all and thanks for the info.
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
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                                  >
                                  > > To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                                  >
                                  > > From: oe3epw@
                                  >
                                  > > Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 18:52:29 +0100
                                  >
                                  > > Subject: Re: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo
                                  >
                                  > >
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                                  >
                                  > > Hi Scott and All,
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > To answer your questions ... NO, here in Austria there is no
                                  >
                                  > > exception what so ever for "JT65". People transmitting below 10140
                                  >
                                  > > are doing it on their own risk. This might be totally different in
                                  >
                                  > > other region 1 countries.
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > As of those RTTY-bulls ... Well, the QRG to start the "QSX UP"
                                  >
                                  > > stampede should not be lower than 10145. By doing it that way all
                                  >
                                  > > the other main digital modes would be able to survive further down
                                  >
                                  > > without being killed by all those incredible 2KW/RTTY signals.
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Talking about using BPSK31 for DXpeditions ... Seems to me to be
                                  >
                                  > > kind of a pipe dream. I cant imagine this will ever happen.
                                  >
                                  > > DXpeditions want to make as many contacts as possible within the
                                  >
                                  > > shortest possible time frame. PSK31 is just to slow to fit into this
                                  >
                                  > > requirement. PSK63 would be good, PSK125 even better and PSK250
                                  >
                                  > > ideal. But for different reasons all 3 of them are not that much in
                                  >
                                  > > use by standard digi operators.
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Anyway, finally I wish you a quick recovery on your sore throat.
                                  >
                                  > > Have a relaxing weekend and enjoy CW!
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Message body
                                  >
                                  > > 73 de Pez, OE3EPW
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > <oe3epw@>
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > AR SK
                                  >
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                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Am 25.03.2011 14:20, schrieb Scott Currier:
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Good afternoon Pez, thank you for the information regarding digital below 10.140. The bandplan says that digital is supposed to be above .140 but I work region 1 regularly on jt65 below .140. Are they making an exception for JT65?
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Instead of .130 to .135 where would you suggest? If they had to pick a place between 10.140 and .150 where do you suggest it should be?
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Unlike the more efficient and better performing digital modes, RTTY is like a bull in a china shop, people tend to run high power and ignore the signals of the more efficient and better performing modes. That being the case, RTTY should be written into the band plan somewhere and a recommendation made for DXers, otherwise you have them operating anywhere and everywhere. What about 10.149 to 10.150. It's over 5 times the bandwidth needed for one RTTY QSO and thus should be enough for pileup operation.
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > I pick on RTTY all the time but I do use it for DXing if the DX warrants it.
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > We could always recommend that "due to the small size of the world wide digital subband on 30 meters, Dxpeditions should use bpsk31 instead of RTTY because of bandwidth issues." Some people will follow the recommendation, others won't.
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > 73 and good dx. I have a sore throat so I guess I won't be in the WPX contest this weekend, no loss. I'll be on cw and the digital modes.
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
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                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                                  >
                                  > > From: oe3epw@
                                  >
                                  > > Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 10:40:44 +0100
                                  >
                                  > > Subject: Re: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Hello All,
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > I fully agree on that being said about the behave of DXpeditions. But I strongly disagree on Scotts QRG-suggestion ".130 - .135"!
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Following the IARU bandplan for region 1 this part of 30m is to be used for CW exclusively. In other words HAMs in region 1 would not be able to have any digi mode contact (except CW of course).
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Here is the IARU text on that matter ...
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > #######################################################################
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > 10100 - 10140 200 CW, 10116 kHz - QRP Centre of Activity
                                  >
                                  > > 10140 - 10150 500 Narrow band modes � digimodes
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Narrow band modes: All modes using up to 500 Hz bandwidth, including CW, RTTY, PSK etc.
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Digimodes: Any digital mode used within the appropriate bandwidth, for example RTTY, PSK, MT63 etc
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > #######################################################################
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Well, at least here in lovely Austria these IARU recommendations have been strictly followed and put into valid Governmental law.
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > I know what I'm talking about as years ago I had my own experience on this matter. Making an RTTY contact on 10135 on Tuesday was directly followed by a visit of a Government official on Thursday same week :'( .
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > So, please don't even think about to make the range ".130 - .135" as recommendation on "30MDG" website >:o . Keep always in mind that the whole globe is divided into 3 different regions with (unfortunately) different Governmental bans and rules.
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > 73 de Pez, OE3EPW
                                  >
                                  > > <oe3epw@>
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > AR SK
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Am 24.03.2011 21:30, schrieb dl6xaz:
                                  >
                                  > > Hi all,
                                  >
                                  > > thanks to all your replies, and indeed it should be seriously considered issueing a recommendation on the 30mDG-site in that sense. What so deeply disappoints me is not the ignorance of certain hams when they spread out over 1-10 up, but the attitude of those dxpedition-operators who do either not think about what they cause or, worse even, don't care at all (" we are dxpedition, what do you expect? We can do what we like...") They want to be respected for their engagement, and I am the first one to recognize their efforts. But respect is no one-way traffic, and we, the greater ham community can expect to be respected, too. If you put out your rear end out of the window, don't be surprised if there are some who will slap it.
                                  >
                                  > > 73 Fred DL6XAZ
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, Scott Currier <scott_currier@> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > The 30MDG should recommend a portion of the band for RTTY DXing and post that recommendation on it's website.
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > I think that most people would follow that recommendation and thus eliminate the problem of interference to other users.
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > I suggest the portion of the band from .130 to .135.
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > 73 Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
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                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                                  >
                                  > > From: g0uzpham@
                                  >
                                  > > Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 17:41:47 +0000
                                  >
                                  > > Subject: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > There is a solution to this on 30 MTR dxpeditions Re: digital modes..
                                  >
                                  > > Why do they not call on 10.137 and work down..
                                  >
                                  > > It has been done by some of the more clever dxpeditions.
                                  >
                                  > > I was one of them in the zoo for S21 that Fred talks about.
                                  >
                                  > > I was lucky and worked out what was going on and got them 2nd call.
                                  >
                                  > > That said, they were calling on 10.138 RTTY(JT65/WSPR) qrg. Working up.
                                  >
                                  > > The band segment for the rest of the digi section was a no no for other modes..
                                  >
                                  > > Do I feel guilty, as a matter of fact yes.. Knowing that there was psk31 sigs being blasted out.
                                  >
                                  > > Yes it is nice to get new countries. Not at the expense of others enjoyment.
                                  >
                                  > > The dx code of conduct should work two ways
                                  >
                                  > > Expeditions should recognise the mayhem they cause others whom are not interested in working them.
                                  >
                                  > > It's not rocket science..
                                  >
                                  > > Maybe a solution can be found.. It certainly needs to be brought up..
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Regards
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Paul G0UZP
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • Joe Brown
                                  Scott, I don t do JT65. I m strictly a rag-chewer. But I would call you anytime I see you on. There have been a few occasions when I was able to work a
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Mar 27, 2011
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                                    Scott, I don't do JT65. I'm strictly a rag-chewer. But I would call you anytime I see you on. There have been a few occasions when I was able to work a Massachusetts station from here but, usually it's too short (187 miles from you) for 30 meters.
                                    73 – Joe W2JLB
                                    

                                    On 3/26/2011 11:33 PM, Scott Currier wrote:
                                     

                                    You're right Joe, two three and four are not legal although many countries do have a higher power limit than 200 watts.

                                    I think I saw you on 30 today on JT65. Are you doing any jt65 on 12 or 17? If so, please give me a call if you see me on. 

                                    73 and good dx

                                    Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA






















                                    To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                                    From: w2jlb1@...
                                    Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 20:08:40 -0400
                                    Subject: Re: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo

                                     
                                    Scott, #2 is unnecessary since we're restricted to 200 watts PEP on 30 meters.

                                    73 – Joe W2JLB
                                    

                                    On 3/25/2011 4:02 PM, Scott Currier wrote:
                                     
                                    Thank you for the best wishes and the information Pez.

                                    I've tried to operate jt65 up around 10.147, I forget the exact frequency, but didn't have any luck. I am willing to switch to that frequency if we could get the word out. It's no fun calling cq up there and not getting any answers.

                                    I agree with your statement about .145. I'd actually raise it to .148. That is more than 10 times the bandwidth necessary for a rtty QSO and would be more than adequate for RTTY pileups.

                                    Regardless of where the best spot for rtty dxing turns out to be, once the word is out, it should help keep unnecessary interference to a minimum.

                                    The other alternatives are not good ones.

                                    1. Grin and bear it.
                                    2. Keep your amplifier on standby.
                                    3. Operate with higher power than necessary.
                                    4. Jam the offending dx station.
                                    5. Shut the radio off and go do something else.

                                    There is room for everyone but it would be easier to fit them into 20 kHz than into 10.

                                    My question for the group is why the IARU region 1 bandplan only has digital in the top 10 KHz of the band?

                                    73 all and thanks for the info.

                                    Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA




























                                    To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                                    From: oe3epw@...
                                    Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 18:52:29 +0100
                                    Subject: Re: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo

                                     
                                    Hi Scott and All,

                                    To answer your questions ... NO, here in Austria there is no exception what so ever for "JT65". People transmitting below 10140 are doing it on their own risk. This might be totally different in other region 1 countries.

                                    As of those RTTY-bulls ... Well, the QRG to start the "QSX UP" stampede should not be lower than 10145. By doing it that way all the other main digital modes would be able to survive further down without being killed by all those incredible 2KW/RTTY signals.

                                    Talking about using BPSK31 for DXpeditions ... Seems to me to be kind of a pipe dream. I cant imagine this will ever happen. DXpeditions want to make as many contacts as possible within the shortest possible time frame. PSK31 is just to slow to fit into this requirement. PSK63 would be good, PSK125 even better and PSK250 ideal. But for different reasons all 3 of them are not that much in use by standard digi operators.

                                    Anyway, finally I wish you a quick recovery on your sore throat. Have a relaxing weekend and enjoy CW!



                                    Message body 73 de Pez,  OE3EPW
                                     <oe3epw@...>

                                    AR  SK



                                    Am 25.03.2011 14:20, schrieb Scott Currier:
                                    Good afternoon Pez, thank you for the information regarding digital below 10.140. The bandplan says that digital is supposed to be above .140 but I work region 1 regularly on jt65 below .140. Are they making an exception for JT65? 
                                     
                                    Instead of .130 to .135 where would you suggest? If they had to pick a place between 10.140 and .150 where do you suggest it should be? 
                                     
                                    Unlike the more efficient and better performing digital modes, RTTY is like a bull in a china shop, people tend to run high power and ignore the signals of the more efficient and better performing modes. That being the case, RTTY should be written into the band plan somewhere and a recommendation made for DXers, otherwise you have them operating anywhere and everywhere.  What about 10.149 to 10.150. It's over 5 times the bandwidth needed for one RTTY QSO and thus should be enough for pileup operation. 
                                    
                                    I pick on RTTY all the time but I do use it for DXing if the DX warrants it. 
                                     
                                    We could always recommend that "due to the small size of the world wide digital subband on 30 meters, Dxpeditions should use bpsk31 instead of RTTY because of bandwidth issues." Some people will follow the recommendation, others won't. 
                                     
                                    73 and good dx. I have a sore throat so I guess I won't be in the WPX contest this weekend, no loss. I'll be on cw and the digital modes. 
                                     
                                    Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                     
                                    
                                    
                                    To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                                    From: oe3epw@...
                                    Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 10:40:44 +0100
                                    Subject: Re: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo
                                    
                                    
                                      
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    Hello All,
                                    
                                    I fully agree on that being said about the behave of DXpeditions. But I strongly disagree on Scotts QRG-suggestion ".130 - .135"!
                                    
                                    Following the IARU bandplan for region 1 this part of 30m is to be used for CW exclusively. In other words HAMs in region 1 would not be able to have any digi mode contact (except CW of course).
                                    
                                    
                                    Here is the IARU text on that matter ...
                                    
                                    #######################################################################
                                    
                                    10100 - 10140  200  CW,  10116 kHz -  QRP Centre of Activity
                                    10140 - 10150  500  Narrow band modes � digimodes 
                                    
                                    
                                    Narrow band modes: All modes using up to 500 Hz bandwidth, including CW, RTTY, PSK etc. 
                                    
                                    Digimodes: Any digital mode used within the appropriate bandwidth, for example RTTY, PSK, MT63 etc
                                    
                                    #######################################################################
                                    
                                    Well, at least here in lovely Austria these IARU recommendations have been strictly followed and put into valid Governmental law.
                                    
                                    I know what I'm talking about as years ago I had my own experience on this matter. Making an RTTY contact on 10135 on Tuesday was directly followed by a visit of a Government official on Thursday same week :'( .
                                    
                                    So, please don't even think about to make the range ".130 - .135" as recommendation on "30MDG" website >:o . Keep always in mind that the whole globe is divided into 3 different regions with (unfortunately) different Governmental bans and rules.
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    73 de Pez,  OE3EPW
                                     <oe3epw@...>
                                    
                                    AR  SK
                                    
                                    
                                    Am 24.03.2011 21:30, schrieb dl6xaz: 
                                    Hi all,
                                    thanks to all your replies, and indeed it should be seriously considered issueing a recommendation on the 30mDG-site in that sense. What so deeply disappoints me is not the ignorance of certain hams when they spread out over 1-10 up, but the attitude of those dxpedition-operators who do either not think about what they cause or, worse even, don't care at all (" we are dxpedition, what do you expect? We can do what we like...") They want to be respected for their engagement, and I am the first one to recognize their efforts. But respect is no one-way traffic, and we, the greater ham community can expect to be respected, too. If you put out your rear end out of the window, don't be surprised if there are some who will slap it.
                                    73 Fred DL6XAZ
                                    
                                    
                                    --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, Scott Currier <scott_currier@...> wrote:
                                    
                                    
                                    The 30MDG should recommend a portion of the band for RTTY DXing and post that recommendation on it's website. 
                                     
                                    I think that most people would follow that recommendation and thus eliminate the problem of interference to other users. 
                                     
                                    I suggest the portion of the band from .130 to .135. 
                                     
                                    73 Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                     
                                    
                                    
                                    To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                                    From: g0uzpham@...
                                    Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 17:41:47 +0000
                                    Subject: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo
                                    
                                    
                                      
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    There is a solution to this on 30 MTR dxpeditions Re: digital modes..
                                    Why do they not call on 10.137 and work down..
                                    It has been done by some of the more clever dxpeditions.
                                    I was one of them in the zoo for S21 that Fred talks about. 
                                    I was lucky and worked out what was going on and got them 2nd call.
                                    That said, they were calling on 10.138 RTTY(JT65/WSPR) qrg. Working up.
                                    The band segment for the rest of the digi section was a no no for other modes.. 
                                    Do I feel guilty, as a matter of fact yes.. Knowing that there was psk31 sigs being blasted out.
                                    Yes it is nice to get new countries. Not at the expense of others enjoyment.
                                    The dx code of conduct should work two ways 
                                    Expeditions should  recognise the mayhem they cause others whom are not interested in working them.
                                    It's not rocket science..
                                    Maybe a solution can be found.. It certainly needs to be brought up..
                                     
                                    Regards
                                     
                                    Paul G0UZP
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                     		 	   		  
                                    


                                  • Scott Currier
                                    Good afternoon/morning/evening Fred and the rest of the group, the software has a reverse button so I just hit that when I went over to LSB. I spent the
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Mar 28, 2011
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                                      Good afternoon/morning/evening  Fred and the rest of the group, the software has a reverse button so I just hit that when I went over to LSB. I spent the weekend on 30/17/12 meters. JT65 and CW. Got a few new band countries and band states.
                                      Nothing to jump up and down about. I expect to be on 30 regularly. If you hear me, maybe you can try 1 watt or if you have a watt meter with the proper precision, try 10db down from 5 watts and see what happens. I generally don't get QRM from the neighborhood so I think I hear pretty well on 30. I'm on the side of a hill with a view of several miles to the east and north east, EU and AF are very easy from here on all bands.

                                      At some point I will connect a watt meter that is precise enough down at the five watt area and go for the 30 meter QRP award on JT65.

                                      Grabbed a JW this morning on 17 cw.

                                      Weather getting better, almost all of the snow is gone, the only exception being the big snow piles. I am planning on making a new antenna that focuses on 30 meters as well as the other two warc bands. I am leaning towards a 3 band parallel dipole. Need to order the copper coated steel wire. I need to have something to compare my 80 meter Carolina Windom to. It seems like a good antenna, I'm making lots of Q's with it but until I get something else up in the air I won't be able to know for sure.

                                      The nice thing about doing the parallel dipole for the warc bands is that not much bandwidth is required. That's good because parallel dipoles tend to have narrower bandwidth than monoband dipoles.

                                      The nice thing about the improved conditions is that it gives the OTHR operators more choices of spectrum to pollute. I do not recall hearing the OTHR on 30 this weekend.

                                      I do hear some strange signals from time to time in the cw portion of the band. They are usually a few kHz wide and sound like a whoose but steady. I believe they're digital signals. Annoying but usually not that strong.

                                      Eddy is reporting very good results with his new 43' vertical antenna. I worked him on 12 with it and he had a really good signal compared with the others received at the time.

                                      Have a nice day.

                                      73 and good dx.

                                      Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
























                                      To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                                      From: dl6xaz@...
                                      Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 08:26:11 +0000
                                      Subject: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo

                                       
                                      Norning Scott,
                                      yes thank you, that mail arrived, is in the -to reply- folder. Also much obliged by the jt65 QSO; I thought I might use you as a voluntary victim for a QRP try, and I was truly amazed at your report. So condx must have been outstanding, but when I later called CQ in psk31 there were only Russian and Spanish stns visible, nothing from statside.
                                      I heard VU4 on several occasions but only managed working them in CW last week on 10106. S21 was a no-no due to the brickwall, but I dislike rtty anyway, for the reasons discussed earlier. FP/W6 was worked on 17m but not heard on 30m.
                                      As for working LSB, sometimes I believe that the operator simply doesn't pay attention to the sideband as some rigs switch to LSB automatically below 20m, however we got the agreement to work digimodes in USB in general. But LSB can be useful, as you mention.
                                      Shall write direct soon.
                                      Thanks again, vy73 to all, - Fred DL6XAZ

                                      --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, Scott Currier <scott_currier@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Thank you Fred, yes I ran into those stations last nite when I tuned up to 10.147 to see about working jt65 there.
                                      >
                                      > 144 to 146 sounds like it's gonna have to do.
                                      >
                                      > Thanks for the JT65 qso today. 5w into the vertical did a fine job. Would never have known you were qrp.
                                      >
                                      > Thanks for sending the picture of your antennas. Did my reply to that message make it through to you or did the spam filter zap the message?
                                      >
                                      > Worked fp/w6??? on 30 meter rtty yesterday or the day before. He was on about 10.137 working down. I put the radio on LSB instead of the normal USB for digital modes and worked him. I'm used to having the DX on the left side of the display and transmitting somewhere on the right. LSB mode allowed me to do that even though he was working down instead of up. It was nice that he was working down because he wasn't interfering with JT65 and neither were the people trying to work him.
                                      >
                                      > I think that more stations will probably be tempted to use the space between .130 and .137 or so. Outdated band plans will need to be updated at some point to better reflect reality.
                                      >
                                      > I did work a station on 10.131 cw. Forget where it was but it was a dx station. Surprised, don't usually hear cw up that high.
                                      >
                                      > Was hoping to work the Vu4 dxpedition on 30 meters but I have not heard them as of yet. I've seen them spotted but they weren't making it this far. I did catch them on 20 cw and am in the log.
                                      >
                                      > 73 and good dx
                                      >
                                      > Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                                      > From: dl6xaz@...
                                      > Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 13:09:08 +0000
                                      > Subject: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Hi Scott and all,
                                      >
                                      > I do not favour 10147 because exactly there we got the nuisance of some /MM network working with highly distorted and overpowered transmissions all day long; they use all possible modes up to 500 Hz b/w for some people sailing around and giving position reports. On 10148 there is regular traffic in APRS packet. The range between 10144/146 is relatively less used and quiet.
                                      >
                                      > As for the discrepancy between Regions 1 and 2/3 I have got no clue as to why this was adopted.
                                      >
                                      > vy73 Fred DL6XAZ
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, Scott Currier <scott_currier@> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > Thank you for the best wishes and the information Pez.
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > I've tried to operate jt65 up around 10.147, I forget the exact frequency, but didn't have any luck. I am willing to switch to that frequency if we could get the word out. It's no fun calling cq up there and not getting any answers.
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > I agree with your statement about .145. I'd actually raise it to .148. That is more than 10 times the bandwidth necessary for a rtty QSO and would be more than adequate for RTTY pileups.
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > Regardless of where the best spot for rtty dxing turns out to be, once the word is out, it should help keep unnecessary interference to a minimum.
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > The other alternatives are not good ones.
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > 1. Grin and bear it.
                                      >
                                      > > 2. Keep your amplifier on standby.
                                      >
                                      > > 3. Operate with higher power than necessary.
                                      >
                                      > > 4. Jam the offending dx station.
                                      >
                                      > > 5. Shut the radio off and go do something else.
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > There is room for everyone but it would be easier to fit them into 20 kHz than into 10.
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > My question for the group is why the IARU region 1 bandplan only has digital in the top 10 KHz of the band?
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > 73 all and thanks for the info.
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
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                                      >
                                      > > To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                                      >
                                      > > From: oe3epw@
                                      >
                                      > > Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 18:52:29 +0100
                                      >
                                      > > Subject: Re: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo
                                      >
                                      > >
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                                      >
                                      > > Hi Scott and All,
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > To answer your questions ... NO, here in Austria there is no
                                      >
                                      > > exception what so ever for "JT65". People transmitting below 10140
                                      >
                                      > > are doing it on their own risk. This might be totally different in
                                      >
                                      > > other region 1 countries.
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > As of those RTTY-bulls ... Well, the QRG to start the "QSX UP"
                                      >
                                      > > stampede should not be lower than 10145. By doing it that way all
                                      >
                                      > > the other main digital modes would be able to survive further down
                                      >
                                      > > without being killed by all those incredible 2KW/RTTY signals.
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > Talking about using BPSK31 for DXpeditions ... Seems to me to be
                                      >
                                      > > kind of a pipe dream. I cant imagine this will ever happen.
                                      >
                                      > > DXpeditions want to make as many contacts as possible within the
                                      >
                                      > > shortest possible time frame. PSK31 is just to slow to fit into this
                                      >
                                      > > requirement. PSK63 would be good, PSK125 even better and PSK250
                                      >
                                      > > ideal. But for different reasons all 3 of them are not that much in
                                      >
                                      > > use by standard digi operators.
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > Anyway, finally I wish you a quick recovery on your sore throat.
                                      >
                                      > > Have a relaxing weekend and enjoy CW!
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > Message body
                                      >
                                      > > 73 de Pez, OE3EPW
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > <oe3epw@>
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > AR SK
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
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                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
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                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > Am 25.03.2011 14:20, schrieb Scott Currier:
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > Good afternoon Pez, thank you for the information regarding digital below 10.140. The bandplan says that digital is supposed to be above .140 but I work region 1 regularly on jt65 below .140. Are they making an exception for JT65?
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > Instead of .130 to .135 where would you suggest? If they had to pick a place between 10.140 and .150 where do you suggest it should be?
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > Unlike the more efficient and better performing digital modes, RTTY is like a bull in a china shop, people tend to run high power and ignore the signals of the more efficient and better performing modes. That being the case, RTTY should be written into the band plan somewhere and a recommendation made for DXers, otherwise you have them operating anywhere and everywhere. What about 10.149 to 10.150. It's over 5 times the bandwidth needed for one RTTY QSO and thus should be enough for pileup operation.
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > I pick on RTTY all the time but I do use it for DXing if the DX warrants it.
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > We could always recommend that "due to the small size of the world wide digital subband on 30 meters, Dxpeditions should use bpsk31 instead of RTTY because of bandwidth issues." Some people will follow the recommendation, others won't.
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > 73 and good dx. I have a sore throat so I guess I won't be in the WPX contest this weekend, no loss. I'll be on cw and the digital modes.
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
                                      >
                                      > >
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                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                                      >
                                      > > From: oe3epw@
                                      >
                                      > > Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 10:40:44 +0100
                                      >
                                      > > Subject: Re: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > Hello All,
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > I fully agree on that being said about the behave of DXpeditions. But I strongly disagree on Scotts QRG-suggestion ".130 - .135"!
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > Following the IARU bandplan for region 1 this part of 30m is to be used for CW exclusively. In other words HAMs in region 1 would not be able to have any digi mode contact (except CW of course).
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > Here is the IARU text on that matter ...
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > #######################################################################
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > 10100 - 10140 200 CW, 10116 kHz - QRP Centre of Activity
                                      >
                                      > > 10140 - 10150 500 Narrow band modes � digimodes
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > Narrow band modes: All modes using up to 500 Hz bandwidth, including CW, RTTY, PSK etc.
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > Digimodes: Any digital mode used within the appropriate bandwidth, for example RTTY, PSK, MT63 etc
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > #######################################################################
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > Well, at least here in lovely Austria these IARU recommendations have been strictly followed and put into valid Governmental law.
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > I know what I'm talking about as years ago I had my own experience on this matter. Making an RTTY contact on 10135 on Tuesday was directly followed by a visit of a Government official on Thursday same week :'( .
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > So, please don't even think about to make the range ".130 - .135" as recommendation on "30MDG" website >:o . Keep always in mind that the whole globe is divided into 3 different regions with (unfortunately) different Governmental bans and rules.
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > 73 de Pez, OE3EPW
                                      >
                                      > > <oe3epw@>
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > AR SK
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > Am 24.03.2011 21:30, schrieb dl6xaz:
                                      >
                                      > > Hi all,
                                      >
                                      > > thanks to all your replies, and indeed it should be seriously considered issueing a recommendation on the 30mDG-site in that sense. What so deeply disappoints me is not the ignorance of certain hams when they spread out over 1-10 up, but the attitude of those dxpedition-operators who do either not think about what they cause or, worse even, don't care at all (" we are dxpedition, what do you expect? We can do what we like...") They want to be respected for their engagement, and I am the first one to recognize their efforts. But respect is no one-way traffic, and we, the greater ham community can expect to be respected, too. If you put out your rear end out of the window, don't be surprised if there are some who will slap it.
                                      >
                                      > > 73 Fred DL6XAZ
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, Scott Currier <scott_currier@> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > The 30MDG should recommend a portion of the band for RTTY DXing and post that recommendation on it's website.
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > I think that most people would follow that recommendation and thus eliminate the problem of interference to other users.
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > I suggest the portion of the band from .130 to .135.
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > 73 Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
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                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                                      >
                                      > > From: g0uzpham@
                                      >
                                      > > Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 17:41:47 +0000
                                      >
                                      > > Subject: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > There is a solution to this on 30 MTR dxpeditions Re: digital modes..
                                      >
                                      > > Why do they not call on 10.137 and work down..
                                      >
                                      > > It has been done by some of the more clever dxpeditions.
                                      >
                                      > > I was one of them in the zoo for S21 that Fred talks about.
                                      >
                                      > > I was lucky and worked out what was going on and got them 2nd call.
                                      >
                                      > > That said, they were calling on 10.138 RTTY(JT65/WSPR) qrg. Working up.
                                      >
                                      > > The band segment for the rest of the digi section was a no no for other modes..
                                      >
                                      > > Do I feel guilty, as a matter of fact yes.. Knowing that there was psk31 sigs being blasted out.
                                      >
                                      > > Yes it is nice to get new countries. Not at the expense of others enjoyment.
                                      >
                                      > > The dx code of conduct should work two ways
                                      >
                                      > > Expeditions should recognise the mayhem they cause others whom are not interested in working them.
                                      >
                                      > > It's not rocket science..
                                      >
                                      > > Maybe a solution can be found.. It certainly needs to be brought up..
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > Regards
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > > Paul G0UZP
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >


                                    • Scott Currier
                                      Hi Joe, at some point I ll be back on Contestia and ragchewing again. I enjoyed it before. Right now I m looking for band countries and band states so am a
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Mar 28, 2011
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                                        Hi Joe, at some point I'll be back on Contestia and ragchewing again. I enjoyed it before. Right now I'm looking for band countries and band states so am a little restless and have not been on any of the regular digital modes except RTTY and that was to work some DX.

                                        Ragchewing has been very enjoyable in the past with QSO's lasting an hour or more, even those into EU. I think the longest was about 2.5 hours. Once I get going it isn't easy to stop.

                                        187 miles is pretty short for 30 but you never know. On Contestia it will probably be possible. I've been able to work all distances on 30 with JT65. From New Zealand to Vermont, ME, CT, RI, NJ, NY.

                                        I was very surprised to work Presque Isle Maine on 12 meter JT65. That's about 300 miles. Very short distance for 12 meters. Well beyond ground wave and normally within the skip zone of the higher bands.

                                        JT65 has shown me on bands 30 and up 12 so far and probably 10 meters that it is possible to work stations in the skip zone if you can deal with the weak signals.

                                        On 30 I was surprised to be able to work RI, CT, NJ, and VT because they are so close. Signals were generally weak but they were workable on JT65 and are most likely workable on other modes such as Contestia and Olivia. Parts of NH and ME are within ground wave of my location.

                                        What are you using for an antenna Joe.

                                        Thank you for the reply. 73 and have a nice day.

                                        Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA



                                        To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                                        From: w2jlb1@...
                                        Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 09:15:41 -0400
                                        Subject: Re: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo

                                         
                                        Scott, I don't do JT65. I'm strictly a rag-chewer. But I would call you anytime I see you on. There have been a few occasions when I was able to work a Massachusetts station from here but, usually it's too short (187 miles from you) for 30 meters.

                                        73 – Joe W2JLB

                                        On 3/26/2011 11:33 PM, Scott Currier wrote:
                                         
                                        You're right Joe, two three and four are not legal although many countries do have a higher power limit than 200 watts.

                                        I think I saw you on 30 today on JT65. Are you doing any jt65 on 12 or 17? If so, please give me a call if you see me on. 

                                        73 and good dx

                                        Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA























                                        To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                                        From: w2jlb1@...
                                        Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 20:08:40 -0400
                                        Subject: Re: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo

                                         
                                        Scott, #2 is unnecessary since we're restricted to 200 watts PEP on 30 meters.

                                        73 – Joe W2JLB

                                        On 3/25/2011 4:02 PM, Scott Currier wrote:
                                         
                                        Thank you for the best wishes and the information Pez.

                                        I've tried to operate jt65 up around 10.147, I forget the exact frequency, but didn't have any luck. I am willing to switch to that frequency if we could get the word out. It's no fun calling cq up there and not getting any answers.

                                        I agree with your statement about .145. I'd actually raise it to .148. That is more than 10 times the bandwidth necessary for a rtty QSO and would be more than adequate for RTTY pileups.

                                        Regardless of where the best spot for rtty dxing turns out to be, once the word is out, it should help keep unnecessary interference to a minimum.

                                        The other alternatives are not good ones.

                                        1. Grin and bear it.
                                        2. Keep your amplifier on standby.
                                        3. Operate with higher power than necessary.
                                        4. Jam the offending dx station.
                                        5. Shut the radio off and go do something else.

                                        There is room for everyone but it would be easier to fit them into 20 kHz than into 10.

                                        My question for the group is why the IARU region 1 bandplan only has digital in the top 10 KHz of the band?

                                        73 all and thanks for the info.

                                        Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA




























                                        To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                                        From: oe3epw@...
                                        Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 18:52:29 +0100
                                        Subject: Re: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo

                                         
                                        Hi Scott and All,

                                        To answer your questions ... NO, here in Austria there is no exception what so ever for "JT65". People transmitting below 10140 are doing it on their own risk. This might be totally different in other region 1 countries.

                                        As of those RTTY-bulls ... Well, the QRG to start the "QSX UP" stampede should not be lower than 10145. By doing it that way all the other main digital modes would be able to survive further down without being killed by all those incredible 2KW/RTTY signals.

                                        Talking about using BPSK31 for DXpeditions ... Seems to me to be kind of a pipe dream. I cant imagine this will ever happen. DXpeditions want to make as many contacts as possible within the shortest possible time frame. PSK31 is just to slow to fit into this requirement. PSK63 would be good, PSK125 even better and PSK250 ideal. But for different reasons all 3 of them are not that much in use by standard digi operators.

                                        Anyway, finally I wish you a quick recovery on your sore throat. Have a relaxing weekend and enjoy CW!



                                        Message body 73 de Pez,  OE3EPW
                                         <oe3epw@...>

                                        AR  SK



                                        Am 25.03.2011 14:20, schrieb Scott Currier:
                                        Good afternoon Pez, thank you for the information regarding digital below 10.140. The bandplan says that digital is supposed to be above .140 but I work region 1 regularly on jt65 below .140. Are they making an exception for JT65? 

                                        Instead of .130 to .135 where would you suggest? If they had to pick a place between 10.140 and .150 where do you suggest it should be?

                                        Unlike the more efficient and better performing digital modes, RTTY is like a bull in a china shop, people tend to run high power and ignore the signals of the more efficient and better performing modes. That being the case, RTTY should be written into the band plan somewhere and a recommendation made for DXers, otherwise you have them operating anywhere and everywhere. What about 10.149 to 10.150. It's over 5 times the bandwidth needed for one RTTY QSO and thus should be enough for pileup operation.

                                        I pick on RTTY all the time but I do use it for DXing if the DX warrants it.

                                        We could always recommend that "due to the small size of the world wide digital subband on 30 meters, Dxpeditions should use bpsk31 instead of RTTY because of bandwidth issues." Some people will follow the recommendation, others won't.

                                        73 and good dx. I have a sore throat so I guess I won't be in the WPX contest this weekend, no loss. I'll be on cw and the digital modes.

                                        Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
























                                        To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                                        From: oe3epw@...
                                        Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 10:40:44 +0100
                                        Subject: Re: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo






                                        Hello All,

                                        I fully agree on that being said about the behave of DXpeditions. But I strongly disagree on Scotts QRG-suggestion ".130 - .135"!

                                        Following the IARU bandplan for region 1 this part of 30m is to be used for CW exclusively. In other words HAMs in region 1 would not be able to have any digi mode contact (except CW of course).


                                        Here is the IARU text on that matter ...

                                        #######################################################################

                                        10100 - 10140 200 CW, 10116 kHz - QRP Centre of Activity
                                        10140 - 10150 500 Narrow band modes � digimodes


                                        Narrow band modes: All modes using up to 500 Hz bandwidth, including CW, RTTY, PSK etc.

                                        Digimodes: Any digital mode used within the appropriate bandwidth, for example RTTY, PSK, MT63 etc

                                        #######################################################################

                                        Well, at least here in lovely Austria these IARU recommendations have been strictly followed and put into valid Governmental law.

                                        I know what I'm talking about as years ago I had my own experience on this matter. Making an RTTY contact on 10135 on Tuesday was directly followed by a visit of a Government official on Thursday same week :'( .

                                        So, please don't even think about to make the range ".130 - .135" as recommendation on "30MDG" website >:o . Keep always in mind that the whole globe is divided into 3 different regions with (unfortunately) different Governmental bans and rules.




                                        73 de Pez, OE3EPW
                                        <oe3epw@...>

                                        AR SK


                                        Am 24.03.2011 21:30, schrieb dl6xaz:
                                        Hi all,
                                        thanks to all your replies, and indeed it should be seriously considered issueing a recommendation on the 30mDG-site in that sense. What so deeply disappoints me is not the ignorance of certain hams when they spread out over 1-10 up, but the attitude of those dxpedition-operators who do either not think about what they cause or, worse even, don't care at all (" we are dxpedition, what do you expect? We can do what we like...") They want to be respected for their engagement, and I am the first one to recognize their efforts. But respect is no one-way traffic, and we, the greater ham community can expect to be respected, too. If you put out your rear end out of the window, don't be surprised if there are some who will slap it.
                                        73 Fred DL6XAZ


                                        --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, Scott Currier <scott_currier@...> wrote:


                                        The 30MDG should recommend a portion of the band for RTTY DXing and post that recommendation on it's website.

                                        I think that most people would follow that recommendation and thus eliminate the problem of interference to other users.

                                        I suggest the portion of the band from .130 to .135.

                                        73 Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA

























                                        To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                                        From: g0uzpham@...
                                        Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 17:41:47 +0000
                                        Subject: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo







                                        There is a solution to this on 30 MTR dxpeditions Re: digital modes..
                                        Why do they not call on 10.137 and work down..
                                        It has been done by some of the more clever dxpeditions.
                                        I was one of them in the zoo for S21 that Fred talks about.
                                        I was lucky and worked out what was going on and got them 2nd call.
                                        That said, they were calling on 10.138 RTTY(JT65/WSPR) qrg. Working up.
                                        The band segment for the rest of the digi section was a no no for other modes..
                                        Do I feel guilty, as a matter of fact yes.. Knowing that there was psk31 sigs being blasted out.
                                        Yes it is nice to get new countries. Not at the expense of others enjoyment.
                                        The dx code of conduct should work two ways
                                        Expeditions should recognise the mayhem they cause others whom are not interested in working them.
                                        It's not rocket science..
                                        Maybe a solution can be found.. It certainly needs to be brought up..

                                        Regards

                                        Paul G0UZP












                                      • Joe Brown
                                        I m using a Diamond BB-7V vertical antenna which happens to be mounted on top of a seven story apartment building. The antenna s performance far exceeded my
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Mar 28, 2011
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                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          I'm using a Diamond BB-7V vertical antenna which happens to be mounted on top of a seven story apartment building. The antenna's performance far exceeded my expectations. You can see a picture of it and my station at my QRZ.COM listing.

                                          I'll be looking for you, with propagation you never know.
                                          73 – Joe W2JLB
                                          

                                          On 3/28/2011 9:44 AM, Scott Currier wrote:
                                           

                                          Hi Joe, at some point I'll be back on Contestia and ragchewing again. I enjoyed it before. Right now I'm looking for band countries and band states so am a little restless and have not been on any of the regular digital modes except RTTY and that was to work some DX.

                                          Ragchewing has been very enjoyable in the past with QSO's lasting an hour or more, even those into EU. I think the longest was about 2.5 hours. Once I get going it isn't easy to stop.

                                          187 miles is pretty short for 30 but you never know. On Contestia it will probably be possible. I've been able to work all distances on 30 with JT65. From New Zealand to Vermont, ME, CT, RI, NJ, NY.

                                          I was very surprised to work Presque Isle Maine on 12 meter JT65. That's about 300 miles. Very short distance for 12 meters. Well beyond ground wave and normally within the skip zone of the higher bands.

                                          JT65 has shown me on bands 30 and up 12 so far and probably 10 meters that it is possible to work stations in the skip zone if you can deal with the weak signals.

                                          On 30 I was surprised to be able to work RI, CT, NJ, and VT because they are so close. Signals were generally weak but they were workable on JT65 and are most likely workable on other modes such as Contestia and Olivia. Parts of NH and ME are within ground wave of my location.

                                          What are you using for an antenna Joe.

                                          Thank you for the reply. 73 and have a nice day.

                                          Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA



                                          To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                                          From: w2jlb1@...
                                          Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 09:15:41 -0400
                                          Subject: Re: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo

                                           
                                          Scott, I don't do JT65. I'm strictly a rag-chewer. But I would call you anytime I see you on. There have been a few occasions when I was able to work a Massachusetts station from here but, usually it's too short (187 miles from you) for 30 meters.

                                          73 – Joe W2JLB
                                          

                                          On 3/26/2011 11:33 PM, Scott Currier wrote:
                                           
                                          You're right Joe, two three and four are not legal although many countries do have a higher power limit than 200 watts.

                                          I think I saw you on 30 today on JT65. Are you doing any jt65 on 12 or 17? If so, please give me a call if you see me on. 

                                          73 and good dx

                                          Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA























                                          To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                                          From: w2jlb1@...
                                          Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 20:08:40 -0400
                                          Subject: Re: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo

                                           
                                          Scott, #2 is unnecessary since we're restricted to 200 watts PEP on 30 meters.

                                          73 – Joe W2JLB
                                          

                                          On 3/25/2011 4:02 PM, Scott Currier wrote:
                                           
                                          Thank you for the best wishes and the information Pez.

                                          I've tried to operate jt65 up around 10.147, I forget the exact frequency, but didn't have any luck. I am willing to switch to that frequency if we could get the word out. It's no fun calling cq up there and not getting any answers.

                                          I agree with your statement about .145. I'd actually raise it to .148. That is more than 10 times the bandwidth necessary for a rtty QSO and would be more than adequate for RTTY pileups.

                                          Regardless of where the best spot for rtty dxing turns out to be, once the word is out, it should help keep unnecessary interference to a minimum.

                                          The other alternatives are not good ones.

                                          1. Grin and bear it.
                                          2. Keep your amplifier on standby.
                                          3. Operate with higher power than necessary.
                                          4. Jam the offending dx station.
                                          5. Shut the radio off and go do something else.

                                          There is room for everyone but it would be easier to fit them into 20 kHz than into 10.

                                          My question for the group is why the IARU region 1 bandplan only has digital in the top 10 KHz of the band?

                                          73 all and thanks for the info.

                                          Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA




























                                          To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                                          From: oe3epw@...
                                          Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 18:52:29 +0100
                                          Subject: Re: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo

                                           
                                          Hi Scott and All,

                                          To answer your questions ... NO, here in Austria there is no exception what so ever for "JT65". People transmitting below 10140 are doing it on their own risk. This might be totally different in other region 1 countries.

                                          As of those RTTY-bulls ... Well, the QRG to start the "QSX UP" stampede should not be lower than 10145. By doing it that way all the other main digital modes would be able to survive further down without being killed by all those incredible 2KW/RTTY signals.

                                          Talking about using BPSK31 for DXpeditions ... Seems to me to be kind of a pipe dream. I cant imagine this will ever happen. DXpeditions want to make as many contacts as possible within the shortest possible time frame. PSK31 is just to slow to fit into this requirement. PSK63 would be good, PSK125 even better and PSK250 ideal. But for different reasons all 3 of them are not that much in use by standard digi operators.

                                          Anyway, finally I wish you a quick recovery on your sore throat. Have a relaxing weekend and enjoy CW!



                                          Message body 73 de Pez,  OE3EPW
                                           <oe3epw@...>

                                          AR  SK



                                          Am 25.03.2011 14:20, schrieb Scott Currier:
                                          Good afternoon Pez, thank you for the information regarding digital below 10.140. The bandplan says that digital is supposed to be above .140 but I work region 1 regularly on jt65 below .140. Are they making an exception for JT65? 
                                           
                                          Instead of .130 to .135 where would you suggest? If they had to pick a place between 10.140 and .150 where do you suggest it should be? 
                                           
                                          Unlike the more efficient and better performing digital modes, RTTY is like a bull in a china shop, people tend to run high power and ignore the signals of the more efficient and better performing modes. That being the case, RTTY should be written into the band plan somewhere and a recommendation made for DXers, otherwise you have them operating anywhere and everywhere.  What about 10.149 to 10.150. It's over 5 times the bandwidth needed for one RTTY QSO and thus should be enough for pileup operation. 
                                          
                                          I pick on RTTY all the time but I do use it for DXing if the DX warrants it. 
                                           
                                          We could always recommend that "due to the small size of the world wide digital subband on 30 meters, Dxpeditions should use bpsk31 instead of RTTY because of bandwidth issues." Some people will follow the recommendation, others won't. 
                                           
                                          73 and good dx. I have a sore throat so I guess I won't be in the WPX contest this weekend, no loss. I'll be on cw and the digital modes. 
                                           
                                          Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                           
                                          
                                          
                                          To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                                          From: oe3epw@...
                                          Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 10:40:44 +0100
                                          Subject: Re: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo
                                          
                                          
                                            
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          Hello All,
                                          
                                          I fully agree on that being said about the behave of DXpeditions. But I strongly disagree on Scotts QRG-suggestion ".130 - .135"!
                                          
                                          Following the IARU bandplan for region 1 this part of 30m is to be used for CW exclusively. In other words HAMs in region 1 would not be able to have any digi mode contact (except CW of course).
                                          
                                          
                                          Here is the IARU text on that matter ...
                                          
                                          #######################################################################
                                          
                                          10100 - 10140  200  CW,  10116 kHz -  QRP Centre of Activity
                                          10140 - 10150  500  Narrow band modes � digimodes 
                                          
                                          
                                          Narrow band modes: All modes using up to 500 Hz bandwidth, including CW, RTTY, PSK etc. 
                                          
                                          Digimodes: Any digital mode used within the appropriate bandwidth, for example RTTY, PSK, MT63 etc
                                          
                                          #######################################################################
                                          
                                          Well, at least here in lovely Austria these IARU recommendations have been strictly followed and put into valid Governmental law.
                                          
                                          I know what I'm talking about as years ago I had my own experience on this matter. Making an RTTY contact on 10135 on Tuesday was directly followed by a visit of a Government official on Thursday same week :'( .
                                          
                                          So, please don't even think about to make the range ".130 - .135" as recommendation on "30MDG" website >:o . Keep always in mind that the whole globe is divided into 3 different regions with (unfortunately) different Governmental bans and rules.
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          73 de Pez,  OE3EPW
                                           <oe3epw@...>
                                          
                                          AR  SK
                                          
                                          
                                          Am 24.03.2011 21:30, schrieb dl6xaz: 
                                          Hi all,
                                          thanks to all your replies, and indeed it should be seriously considered issueing a recommendation on the 30mDG-site in that sense. What so deeply disappoints me is not the ignorance of certain hams when they spread out over 1-10 up, but the attitude of those dxpedition-operators who do either not think about what they cause or, worse even, don't care at all (" we are dxpedition, what do you expect? We can do what we like...") They want to be respected for their engagement, and I am the first one to recognize their efforts. But respect is no one-way traffic, and we, the greater ham community can expect to be respected, too. If you put out your rear end out of the window, don't be surprised if there are some who will slap it.
                                          73 Fred DL6XAZ
                                          
                                          
                                          --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, Scott Currier <scott_currier@...> wrote:
                                          
                                          
                                          The 30MDG should recommend a portion of the band for RTTY DXing and post that recommendation on it's website. 
                                           
                                          I think that most people would follow that recommendation and thus eliminate the problem of interference to other users. 
                                           
                                          I suggest the portion of the band from .130 to .135. 
                                           
                                          73 Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                           
                                          
                                          
                                          To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                                          From: g0uzpham@...
                                          Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 17:41:47 +0000
                                          Subject: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo
                                          
                                          
                                            
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          There is a solution to this on 30 MTR dxpeditions Re: digital modes..
                                          Why do they not call on 10.137 and work down..
                                          It has been done by some of the more clever dxpeditions.
                                          I was one of them in the zoo for S21 that Fred talks about. 
                                          I was lucky and worked out what was going on and got them 2nd call.
                                          That said, they were calling on 10.138 RTTY(JT65/WSPR) qrg. Working up.
                                          The band segment for the rest of the digi section was a no no for other modes.. 
                                          Do I feel guilty, as a matter of fact yes.. Knowing that there was psk31 sigs being blasted out.
                                          Yes it is nice to get new countries. Not at the expense of others enjoyment.
                                          The dx code of conduct should work two ways 
                                          Expeditions should  recognise the mayhem they cause others whom are not interested in working them.
                                          It's not rocket science..
                                          Maybe a solution can be found.. It certainly needs to be brought up..
                                           
                                          Regards
                                           
                                          Paul G0UZP
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                          
                                           		 	   		  
                                          



                                        • dl6xaz
                                          Hi Scott, thanks for the comments. Shall follow your suggestion and put it down to 1W in jt65 when I hear you; got a QRP wattmeter which is very accurate. As
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Mar 28, 2011
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                                            Hi Scott,
                                            thanks for the comments. Shall follow your suggestion and put it down to 1W in jt65 when I hear you; got a QRP wattmeter which is very accurate.
                                            As for the dipole, did you also consider a folded dipole? It would need an 1:4 balun but it is very broadband; have used such arrangements for years in another place.
                                            vy73 Fred DL6XAZ
                                          • Scott Currier
                                            That sounds good, try .5 watts too if you can. I hadn t considered a folded dipole. I am looking for 50 kHz on 10, and 100 kHz on 12 and 17 meters. Narrow
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Mar 28, 2011
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                                              That sounds good, try .5 watts too if you can. I hadn't considered a folded dipole. I am looking for 50 kHz on 10, and 100 kHz on 12 and 17 meters. Narrow bands. Not sure how a more broadbanded dipole would help in this case.

                                              73 and have a nice evening.




                                              To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                                              From: dl6xaz@...
                                              Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 16:32:12 +0000
                                              Subject: [30MDG] Re: DX zoo

                                               
                                              Hi Scott,
                                              thanks for the comments. Shall follow your suggestion and put it down to 1W in jt65 when I hear you; got a QRP wattmeter which is very accurate.
                                              As for the dipole, did you also consider a folded dipole? It would need an 1:4 balun but it is very broadband; have used such arrangements for years in another place.
                                              vy73 Fred DL6XAZ


                                            • Don
                                              Hi Fred DL6XAZ and all, I wasn t going to comment on this post but maybe we should look into this more just as you have posted...good post by the way. For me I
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Apr 17 9:54 PM
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                                                Hi Fred DL6XAZ and all,

                                                I wasn't going to comment on this post but maybe we should look into this more just as you have posted...good post by the way.

                                                For me I always find it 'interesting' when a DX station appears on the 30m band...no matter it be in the CW or digital portion of the band it is always interesting to me. What I find interesting is when I look at all the calls calling back at this DX station it always amazes me at what areas of the World the 30m band is all of a sudden open to...and the more rare the DX the more the calls from all over the World show up...very intersting to me.

                                                What you say about 'normal traffic' or bandplans/gentlemen's agreements do tend to go out the window. Have I been guilty of this...from time to time....yes I'm sure I have a few times. I have because if the JT65 portion of the band is taken over by RTTY DX or the PSK portion taken over by RTTY DX and is no longer usable I many times think well...I can move the the CW portion of the 30m Band or move to a whole other band which I do somtimes but sometimes I also just join in the chase of it since the band is gone for working 'normal traffic'.

                                                That being said...maybe we should touch on this subject more because to me it really boils down to the DX station that 'controls' this sitiation...they control what Frequency, mode, up (or down) and how far and who they will work. I find it very strange that some of the DX stations or DXpenditions that they must not really use 30 Meters digital much if they sit at 10.138 or 10.140 and say listing up 1 to 3 in RTTY mode. I would think if they really used 30 Meters on a 'normal' basis they would know that there is traffic from JT65, WSPR, PropNet or the 'normal' PSK segment of 30m is from 10.140 to 10.142 for the most part, would they not? Should they know this?

                                                All interesting....and I really try not to let this bother me because most times in NA the 30m band is very under used yet compared to EU so at times when the JT65 10.139 or PSK 10.140 to 10.142 is bare of signals I guess fair game for all...I watch the EU live 30m PSK online receivers in EU and at times wall to wall PSK signals/line I see on those receivers in EU yet in NA could be very light on PSK traffic here.

                                                Thanks for the post on this Fred.

                                                Don kb9umt 30MDG#0001
                                                www.30mdg.net


                                                --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, "dl6xaz" <dl6xaz@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Hi all,
                                                > yes, everybody to his/her own, and if spending hours in a pile-up for some "rare" dx is what they like, ok with me. I can use my time in different ways. If it means that the digital section of 30m is unusable due to rtty spread, well, I don't belong to those who intentionally do QRM but simply change band or QRT.
                                                > Today I spent an hour monitoring the callers for S21YZ, and the interesting finding was that 80-90% of those callsigns were new to me not only on 30m but had not worked them at all (my log contains nearly 14000 unique callsigns). Does this mean that those ops are not interested in "normal" traffic on 30m? Amongst those I could identify in my log were a couple I had worked 25-28 years ago, never heard in between.
                                                > Conclusion: to the same extent as I know umpteen calls which only show up in contests, I suppose there are quite a number who only sit on dx-clusters and jump on them as soon as reported, but who don't do QSOs in the conventional way.
                                                > This may explain why presumably they ignore bandplans, gentlemen's conventions and other customs, just hammering out their calls at any QRG irrespective of any other traffic.
                                                > Why do I say "zoo" in the header? It resembles it. And ir resembles certain conditions found on 11m. For sure it is no decoration on the chest of ham-radio... There was no nation being the worst offenders today because half Europe was shouting.
                                                > Well, that's life. Hopefully tonight some nice dx will come in again allowing for a nice chat on barefoot power.
                                                > vy73 Fred DL6XAZ
                                                >
                                              • Phil Williams
                                                All, We have to share the bands with many operators who roll up on 30 meters with very different objectives in mind. Not only are there a diverse selections of
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Apr 18 8:54 AM
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                                                  All,

                                                  We have to share the bands with many operators who roll up on 30 meters with very different objectives in mind. 

                                                  Not only are there a diverse selections of modes, but how the modes are used to achieve individual and group goals vary considerably.  These objectives are going to conflict with each other time to time.  I think it is more about the manner in which we deal with the conflict at the time is more important then worrying about the past or what will happen in the future.  The hobby is so board that conflicts are going to happen from time to time.

                                                  I agree that the DX station has the control over this to some extent, but we all know that in any pile-up, not everyone follows the directions of the DX station.   We have all seen the situation where the DX op is telling the pile-up what the proper split operation is  and yet no one is listening.  Oh, that is because it IS a pile-up HI.

                                                  I think it would be a good idea for those DXpedtions to be e-mailed what can be best described as a "best practices" guide for the 30 meters band.  Will this solve the problem completely? No.  It will depend upon not only the DXpedition operators, but all the participants as well. 

                                                  I think it is a good idea to work with the DXpedition teams in a repectful and constructive manner.  Most of these teams have some way of being contacted them and I think it would be worth for the group to let our thoughts be known to them.

                                                  Maybe the best suggestion, which came from Don, KB9UMT, is to just join in on the fun.  These pile-up do not last forever - they never do.

                                                  I must confess that I do like the antics of the "Split Police" myself.  Am I just alone on this?  Have I admitted to something that I should have kept to myself?  I feel somewhat slighted if only Split partolman is on the scence as I think it is more effective to have multiple self appointed enforcers , all simultaniously telling one operator to "listen UP! UP! UP!"

                                                  Up where?

                                                  Philw de ka1gmn




                                                  On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 11:54 PM, Don <dhobson123@...> wrote:
                                                   

                                                  Hi Fred DL6XAZ and all,

                                                  I wasn't going to comment on this post but maybe we should look into this more just as you have posted...good post by the way.

                                                  For me I always find it 'interesting' when a DX station appears on the 30m band...no matter it be in the CW or digital portion of the band it is always interesting to me. What I find interesting is when I look at all the calls calling back at this DX station it always amazes me at what areas of the World the 30m band is all of a sudden open to...and the more rare the DX the more the calls from all over the World show up...very intersting to me.

                                                  What you say about 'normal traffic' or bandplans/gentlemen's agreements do tend to go out the window. Have I been guilty of this...from time to time....yes I'm sure I have a few times. I have because if the JT65 portion of the band is taken over by RTTY DX or the PSK portion taken over by RTTY DX and is no longer usable I many times think well...I can move the the CW portion of the 30m Band or move to a whole other band which I do somtimes but sometimes I also just join in the chase of it since the band is gone for working 'normal traffic'.

                                                  That being said...maybe we should touch on this subject more because to me it really boils down to the DX station that 'controls' this sitiation...they control what Frequency, mode, up (or down) and how far and who they will work. I find it very strange that some of the DX stations or DXpenditions that they must not really use 30 Meters digital much if they sit at 10.138 or 10.140 and say listing up 1 to 3 in RTTY mode. I would think if they really used 30 Meters on a 'normal' basis they would know that there is traffic from JT65, WSPR, PropNet or the 'normal' PSK segment of 30m is from 10.140 to 10.142 for the most part, would they not? Should they know this?

                                                  All interesting....and I really try not to let this bother me because most times in NA the 30m band is very under used yet compared to EU so at times when the JT65 10.139 or PSK 10.140 to 10.142 is bare of signals I guess fair game for all...I watch the EU live 30m PSK online receivers in EU and at times wall to wall PSK signals/line I see on those receivers in EU yet in NA could be very light on PSK traffic here.

                                                  Thanks for the post on this Fred.

                                                  Don kb9umt 30MDG#0001
                                                  www.30mdg.net


                                                  --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, "dl6xaz" <dl6xaz@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > Hi all,
                                                  > yes, everybody to his/her own, and if spending hours in a pile-up for some "rare" dx is what they like, ok with me. I can use my time in different ways. If it means that the digital section of 30m is unusable due to rtty spread, well, I don't belong to those who intentionally do QRM but simply change band or QRT.
                                                  > Today I spent an hour monitoring the callers for S21YZ, and the interesting finding was that 80-90% of those callsigns were new to me not only on 30m but had not worked them at all (my log contains nearly 14000 unique callsigns). Does this mean that those ops are not interested in "normal" traffic on 30m? Amongst those I could identify in my log were a couple I had worked 25-28 years ago, never heard in between.
                                                  > Conclusion: to the same extent as I know umpteen calls which only show up in contests, I suppose there are quite a number who only sit on dx-clusters and jump on them as soon as reported, but who don't do QSOs in the conventional way.
                                                  > This may explain why presumably they ignore bandplans, gentlemen's conventions and other customs, just hammering out their calls at any QRG irrespective of any other traffic.
                                                  > Why do I say "zoo" in the header? It resembles it. And ir resembles certain conditions found on 11m. For sure it is no decoration on the chest of ham-radio... There was no nation being the worst offenders today because half Europe was shouting.
                                                  > Well, that's life. Hopefully tonight some nice dx will come in again allowing for a nice chat on barefoot power.
                                                  > vy73 Fred DL6XAZ
                                                  >




                                                  --
                                                  Philw de KA1GMN
                                                • BOYD ANN
                                                  Personally I can work round the DXpedition - they re only occupying two spots (albeit with a largish chunk of bandwith compared to most modes). The REAL
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Apr 18 7:11 PM
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                                                    Personally I can work round the DXpedition - they're only occupying two spots (albeit with a largish chunk of bandwith compared to most modes).

                                                    The REAL problem starts when other stations spot an unworked (for them) DXCC in the pile-up and promptly start calling CQ on another split frequency. It doesn't take too long before a very large chunk of the band is filled with the two railway lines of RTTY (usually at full power) and the band becomes as workable as it does when the OTHR fires up.

                                                    In short, getting the DXpedition to stay away from certain frequencies is just not going to work when everyone else starts a free for all on the band.

                                                    73 de Daithi, GI7OMY
                                                  • Don
                                                    Hi Phil KA1GMN, Good points and I personally like all the differences we have both on how we use the 30 Meter Band and the modes that are used on the band.
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Apr 18 8:51 PM
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                                                      Hi Phil KA1GMN,

                                                      Good points and I personally like all the 'differences' we have both on how we use the 30 Meter Band and the modes that are used on the band. I know you have seen when working the not so normal modes that it is nice to see a different mode being used and many times comments made 'good to see we can come to 30 Meters to find different modes' etc etc...all good I think.

                                                      And yes, you are not alone on the 'Split Police'...I find it fun to watch all the action if I'm participating or not...sometimes I think I was doing the splits when they tell me up up up stupid because I didn't quite listen long enough or thought I hit the split but look down and didn't (happens). All fun and usually a fun few hours.

                                                      Thanks for your reply Phil

                                                      Don kb9umt 30MDG#0001
                                                      www.30mdg.net

                                                      --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, Phil Williams <ka1gmn@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > All,
                                                      >
                                                      > We have to share the bands with many operators who roll up on 30 meters with
                                                      > very different objectives in mind.
                                                      >
                                                      > Not only are there a diverse selections of modes, but how the modes are used
                                                      > to achieve individual and group goals vary considerably. These objectives
                                                      > are going to conflict with each other time to time. I think it is more
                                                      > about the manner in which we deal with the conflict at the time is more
                                                      > important then worrying about the past or what will happen in the future.
                                                      > The hobby is so board that conflicts are going to happen from time to time.
                                                      >
                                                      > I agree that the DX station has the control over this to some extent, but we
                                                      > all know that in any pile-up, not everyone follows the directions of the DX
                                                      > station. We have all seen the situation where the DX op is telling the
                                                      > pile-up what the proper split operation is and yet no one is listening.
                                                      > Oh, that is because it IS a pile-up HI.
                                                      >
                                                      > I think it would be a good idea for those DXpedtions to be e-mailed what can
                                                      > be best described as a "best practices" guide for the 30 meters band. Will
                                                      > this solve the problem completely? No. It will depend upon not only the
                                                      > DXpedition operators, but all the participants as well.
                                                      >
                                                      > I think it is a good idea to work with the DXpedition teams in a repectful
                                                      > and constructive manner. Most of these teams have some way of being
                                                      > contacted them and I think it would be worth for the group to let our
                                                      > thoughts be known to them.
                                                      >
                                                      > Maybe the best suggestion, which came from Don, KB9UMT, is to just join in
                                                      > on the fun. These pile-up do not last forever - they never do.
                                                      >
                                                      > I must confess that I do like the antics of the "Split Police" myself. Am I
                                                      > just alone on this? Have I admitted to something that I should have kept to
                                                      > myself? I feel somewhat slighted if only Split partolman is on the scence
                                                      > as I think it is more effective to have multiple self appointed enforcers ,
                                                      > all simultaniously telling one operator to "listen UP! UP! UP!"
                                                      >
                                                      > Up where?
                                                      >
                                                      > Philw de ka1gmn
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 11:54 PM, Don <dhobson123@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Hi Fred DL6XAZ and all,
                                                      > >
                                                      > > I wasn't going to comment on this post but maybe we should look into this
                                                      > > more just as you have posted...good post by the way.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > For me I always find it 'interesting' when a DX station appears on the 30m
                                                      > > band...no matter it be in the CW or digital portion of the band it is always
                                                      > > interesting to me. What I find interesting is when I look at all the calls
                                                      > > calling back at this DX station it always amazes me at what areas of the
                                                      > > World the 30m band is all of a sudden open to...and the more rare the DX the
                                                      > > more the calls from all over the World show up...very intersting to me.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > What you say about 'normal traffic' or bandplans/gentlemen's agreements do
                                                      > > tend to go out the window. Have I been guilty of this...from time to
                                                      > > time....yes I'm sure I have a few times. I have because if the JT65 portion
                                                      > > of the band is taken over by RTTY DX or the PSK portion taken over by RTTY
                                                      > > DX and is no longer usable I many times think well...I can move the the CW
                                                      > > portion of the 30m Band or move to a whole other band which I do somtimes
                                                      > > but sometimes I also just join in the chase of it since the band is gone for
                                                      > > working 'normal traffic'.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > That being said...maybe we should touch on this subject more because to me
                                                      > > it really boils down to the DX station that 'controls' this sitiation...they
                                                      > > control what Frequency, mode, up (or down) and how far and who they will
                                                      > > work. I find it very strange that some of the DX stations or DXpenditions
                                                      > > that they must not really use 30 Meters digital much if they sit at 10.138
                                                      > > or 10.140 and say listing up 1 to 3 in RTTY mode. I would think if they
                                                      > > really used 30 Meters on a 'normal' basis they would know that there is
                                                      > > traffic from JT65, WSPR, PropNet or the 'normal' PSK segment of 30m is from
                                                      > > 10.140 to 10.142 for the most part, would they not? Should they know this?
                                                      > >
                                                      > > All interesting....and I really try not to let this bother me because most
                                                      > > times in NA the 30m band is very under used yet compared to EU so at times
                                                      > > when the JT65 10.139 or PSK 10.140 to 10.142 is bare of signals I guess fair
                                                      > > game for all...I watch the EU live 30m PSK online receivers in EU and at
                                                      > > times wall to wall PSK signals/line I see on those receivers in EU yet in NA
                                                      > > could be very light on PSK traffic here.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Thanks for the post on this Fred.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Don kb9umt 30MDG#0001
                                                      > > www.30mdg.net
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, "dl6xaz" <dl6xaz@> wrote:
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > Hi all,
                                                      > > > yes, everybody to his/her own, and if spending hours in a pile-up for
                                                      > > some "rare" dx is what they like, ok with me. I can use my time in different
                                                      > > ways. If it means that the digital section of 30m is unusable due to rtty
                                                      > > spread, well, I don't belong to those who intentionally do QRM but simply
                                                      > > change band or QRT.
                                                      > > > Today I spent an hour monitoring the callers for S21YZ, and the
                                                      > > interesting finding was that 80-90% of those callsigns were new to me not
                                                      > > only on 30m but had not worked them at all (my log contains nearly 14000
                                                      > > unique callsigns). Does this mean that those ops are not interested in
                                                      > > "normal" traffic on 30m? Amongst those I could identify in my log were a
                                                      > > couple I had worked 25-28 years ago, never heard in between.
                                                      > > > Conclusion: to the same extent as I know umpteen calls which only show up
                                                      > > in contests, I suppose there are quite a number who only sit on dx-clusters
                                                      > > and jump on them as soon as reported, but who don't do QSOs in the
                                                      > > conventional way.
                                                      > > > This may explain why presumably they ignore bandplans, gentlemen's
                                                      > > conventions and other customs, just hammering out their calls at any QRG
                                                      > > irrespective of any other traffic.
                                                      > > > Why do I say "zoo" in the header? It resembles it. And ir resembles
                                                      > > certain conditions found on 11m. For sure it is no decoration on the chest
                                                      > > of ham-radio... There was no nation being the worst offenders today because
                                                      > > half Europe was shouting.
                                                      > > > Well, that's life. Hopefully tonight some nice dx will come in again
                                                      > > allowing for a nice chat on barefoot power.
                                                      > > > vy73 Fred DL6XAZ
                                                      > > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > --
                                                      > Philw de KA1GMN
                                                      >
                                                    • Don
                                                      Hi Daithi GI7OMY, Also very good points...only so much room so if the next DX op wants in they move up or down and spread it all out some more...good point and
                                                      Message 26 of 29 , Apr 18 8:58 PM
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                                                        Hi Daithi GI7OMY,

                                                        Also very good points...only so much room so if the next DX op wants in they move up or down and spread it all out some more...good point and does happen. True the DX is in the drivers seat and has control over what how much space is needed...on the other end all of us as licensed operators are in control of our stations to decide how to control our stations too so with a not so big band space for 30 Meters it can lead to as you say...no control hi

                                                        I might be in the minority but still find it all fun for the few hours it lasts...and again it really shows off how well the propagation is on 30 Meters copying all the calls from all over the World (either that or who runs or is allowed high power hi).

                                                        Thanks for the reply Daithi and hope all is well your way with you and the family.

                                                        Other comments welcome.

                                                        Don kb9umt 30MDG#0001
                                                        www.30mdg.net


                                                        --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, BOYD ANN <gi7omy@...> wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > Personally I can work round the DXpedition - they're only occupying two
                                                        > spots (albeit with a largish chunk of bandwith compared to most modes).
                                                        >
                                                        > The REAL problem starts when other stations spot an unworked (for them) DXCC
                                                        > in the pile-up and promptly start calling CQ on another split frequency. It
                                                        > doesn't take too long before a very large chunk of the band is filled with
                                                        > the two railway lines of RTTY (usually at full power) and the band becomes
                                                        > as workable as it does when the OTHR fires up.
                                                        >
                                                        > In short, getting the DXpedition to stay away from certain frequencies is
                                                        > just not going to work when everyone else starts a free for all on the band.
                                                        >
                                                        > 73 de Daithi, GI7OMY
                                                        >
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