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Re: SSTV / MFSK 16

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  • Don
    Terry K8TJM, Maybe the below information will help. We have gone over this SSTV image issue a few years ago and a few times after from time to time. Hope this
    Message 1 of 3 , Jan 5, 2011
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      Terry K8TJM,

      Maybe the below information will help. We have gone over this SSTV image issue a few years ago and a few times after from time to time. Hope this helps and thanks for asking.

      Don kb9umt 30MDG#0001
      www.30mdg.net


      Below info on SSTV Narrow <500hz for 30 Meters...posts from 30MDG, 30MSSTV and DIGITALRADIO Yahoo Group Forums.

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/30mSSTV/

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/

      Re: SSTV on 30M


      Lou and all,

      Below are the original posts about this subject back in November of 2007.

      I still would be very curious what they also would say about 'image' ID RSID
      announcing the mode being used because most all digitral operators now use that
      and it is almost standard in the more popular and widely used mutli-digital mode
      software (HRD DM780, MultiPSK, FLDIGI, etc).

      Thanks
      Don kb9umt 30MDG#0001
      www.30mdg.net


      ***Below replies from Digital Radio and 30MDG Forums-Nov 2007***


      Re: [digitalradio] Quick question about MFSK SSTV

      Yes, thanks to Mark, N5RFX, who petitioned the FCC last year, the
      decision was made to allow any kind of image transmission (analog or
      digital) in text digital portions of the bands here in the U.S.,
      provided that they are 500 Hz or less in bandwidth.

      The FCC redefined "data" to include image when under 500 Hz and can be
      found at:


      ยง97.3 Definitions.

      (c)(2) Data.Telemetry, telecommand and computer communications emissions
      having (i) designators with A, C, D, F, G, H, J or R as the first
      symbol, 1 as the second symbol, and D as the third symbol; (ii) emission
      J2D; and (iii) emissions A1C, F1C, F2C, J2C, and J3C having an occupied
      bandwidth of 500 Hz or less when transmitted on an amateur service
      frequency below 30 MHz. Only a digital code of a type specifically
      authorized in this part may be transmitted.

      Here are some interpretations of the ITU Emission Classifications:

      A1C = DSB AM digital FAX with no subcarrier

      F1C = FM FAX digital modulation with no subcarrier (MFSK)

      F2C = FM digital FAX with subcarrier

      J2C = digital SSB FAX with subcarrier

      J3C = analog SSB FAX


      73,

      Rick, KV9U





      Sholto Fisher wrote:
      > Hoping someone knows this:
      >
      > Is the MFSK16 SSTV picture mode legal on 30m in the US?
      >
      > 73 Sholto
      > KE7HPV
      >


      Re: [digitalradio] Quick question about MFSK SSTV

      Yes, as of December 15, 2006. SSTV/FAX with less than 500 Hz bandwidth is legal
      anywhere digital text is.

      -Joe, N8FQ

      On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 09:16:10 -0800
      "Sholto Fisher" <sholto@...> wrote:

      > Hoping someone knows this:
      >
      > Is the MFSK16 SSTV picture mode legal on 30m in the US?
      >
      > 73 Sholto
      > KE7HPV


      Just for information:

      I received this answer from Joe, N8FQ and Rick KV9U.

      Q: Is MFSK16 analog SSTV allowed on 30m in the US?


      A(1): Yes, as of December 15, 2006. SSTV/FAX with less than 500 Hz bandwidth
      is legal anywhere digital text is.


      A(2): Yes, thanks to Mark, N5RFX, who petitioned the FCC last year, the
      decision was made to allow any kind of image transmission (analog or
      digital) in text digital portions of the bands here in the U.S.,
      provided that they are 500 Hz or less in bandwidth.

      The FCC redefined "data" to include image when under 500 Hz and can be
      found at:


      '97.3 Definitions.

      (c)(2) Data.Telemetry, telecommand and computer communications emissions
      having (i) designators with A, C, D, F, G, H, J or R as the first
      symbol, 1 as the second symbol, and D as the third symbol; (ii) emission
      J2D; and (iii) emissions A1C, F1C, F2C, J2C, and J3C having an occupied
      bandwidth of 500 Hz or less when transmitted on an amateur service
      frequency below 30 MHz. Only a digital code of a type specifically
      authorized in this part may be transmitted.

      Here are some interpretations of the ITU Emission Classifications:

      A1C = DSB AM digital FAX with no subcarrier

      F1C = FM FAX digital modulation with no subcarrier (MFSK)

      F2C = FM digital FAX with subcarrier

      J2C = digital SSB FAX with subcarrier

      J3C = analog SSB FAX

      **********************************************************

      ((ps many more posts on this subject but these were the main ones to answer the
      question on 'is it legal on 30 meters'))



      Re: [30mSSTV] Re: SSTV on 30M


      QST and the ARRL would not have allowed WB8IMY to have printed something like this if it were not truth. Although I have not heard from the ARRL as such, and I don't expect to hear from them until after the Labor Day Holiday, this info convinces me that narrow band SSTV on 30m is a go... at least for me. I'll take my chances on the FCC violation though with all the months of activity on this band and mode, I certainly would have expected to see postings concerning operators being warned or fined by now.

      When I do hear from the ARRL, however, I will send a post to the group and especially to you, Don, because of the 30mDG operations. Jose, you certainly have a right to be cautious but I do hope to see 30m MP73-N activity from you soon! Thanks everyone for your contributions to this thread.

      To everyone who has been active in the group, I thank you. This has been a sluggish group to get going but it's now showing some real movement not only in band activity but membership as well. My goal is to promote activity on 30m and in "uncommon" modes to boot, i.e. sstv and feld hellschreiber, and to have fun with amateur radio.

      C U on the air.

      73, de Lou

      Louis E. Wulfekuhler, W8LEW
      FH# 707, 30MDG# 252, EPC# 5418, DigiQRP# 002, 10-10# 75218
      FHC Administrator; 30m SSTV Group Administrator
      FHC Assistant Nets Manager & Assistant Technical Manager

      FHC Net Control:

      30m Net -- 10.135 MHz VFO frequency, Sundays @ 2300 UTC
      40m Net -- 7.073 MHz VFO frequency, Thursdays @ 0100 UTC

      www.feldhellclub.org

      --- On Fri, 9/3/10, joelkg0dp@... <joelkg0dp@...> wrote:


      From: joelkg0dp@... <joelkg0dp@...>
      Subject: Re: [30mSSTV] Re: SSTV on 30M
      To: 30mSSTV@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 11:19 AM







      In a message dated 9/3/2010 10:03:05 Central Daylight Time, n4baa@... writes:
      I just want to make sure at the very least that I understand the FCC's position regardless of what a few websites state about the subject.

      And it is not just web sites that have made statements on the subject. In his ECLECTIC TECHNOLOGY column in QST magazine in June of 2008, Stave Ford WB8IMY states, "Recent FCC actions have made it possible to legally exchange images in the data portions of the HF bands - if the transmitted bandwidth is less than 500 Hz."

      - Joel KG0DP




      Re: [30mSSTV] Re: SSTV on 30M


      :)

      Louis E. Wulfekuhler, W8LEW
      FH# 707, 30MDG# 252, EPC# 5418, DigiQRP# 002, 10-10# 75218
      FHC Administrator; 30m SSTV Group Administrator
      FHC Assistant Nets Manager & Assistant Technical Manager

      FHC Net Control:

      30m Net -- 10.135 MHz VFO frequency, Sundays @ 2300 UTC
      40m Net -- 7.073 MHz VFO frequency, Thursdays @ 0100 UTC

      www.feldhellclub.org

      --- On Fri, 9/3/10, n4baa <n4baa@...> wrote:


      From: n4baa <n4baa@...>
      Subject: [30mSSTV] Re: SSTV on 30M
      To: 30mSSTV@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Friday, September 3, 2010, 2:57 PM



      OK.... I finally have this cleared up at least to satisfy myself.

      The following was just received from the FCC:

      Hi Jose,

      .......

      The Commission does not review different "modes" that you guys come up with and approve them or determine for you what they are. The Commission allows the amateur service to be self-regulating because it possess the technical expertise within to develop new communication technologies and implement them within the rules. We believe that you can determine for yourselves if a particular "mode" [note that that term is not used anywhere in Part 97] is a data emission, a phone emission, or an image emission as the terms are used in Part 97, and that amateur stations will be operated accordingly. For example, when the ROS communications protocol was offered to you guys by its inventor in Feb., the amateur service community quickly determined that because it was a spread spectrum emission, it is not allowed to be used on HF by FCC-licensed amateur stations.

      Similarly, the MP-73-N mode, whatever that is, is something that was either developed by the amateur community or offered to it from some other service or system. The same is true of Olivia, jt 65 and jt 65A, Hellschriber, Pactor I, II, and II, etc. None have been "Commission-approved" because licensees have determined for themselves, as in the case of ROS, whether they are allowed under the rules.


      William Cross
      Mobility Division
      ___________________________________________________

      So....you will hear me CQing on 30M MP73-N this evening...give a listen!

      73 and thank you all again...

      Jose - N4BAA











      --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, "segwin" <tjmccann@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello All:
      >
      > I hitting the books, again, for my extra ticket and have come across the question 30M and allowable transmission types. In the Gordon West book he says that "No phone or image emissions are allowed on 30". There is no exception for size of bandwidth given however I seem to recall some discussion of narrow bandwidth image transmission be allowed. I've gone through 97.305 and 97.107 however I can not find any exception to the no image clause.
      >
      > Thanks,
      >
      > Terry / K8TJM
      >
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