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Re: [30MDG] EQSL.CC

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  • Glenn L. Roeser
    I have seen that on many a macro. I would think that instead of saying No EQSL that they could say Paper QSL Only or some such thing. Are we radio
    Message 1 of 18 , Sep 23, 2010
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      I have seen that on many a macro. I would think that instead of saying "No EQSL" that they could say "Paper QSL Only" or some such thing.
      Are we radio operators or "pen pals?" I live in the country and many locals still live way back in the hills without electricity or telephones, and that is the way they prefer it. But we as Hams like technology, so why use snail mail and paper cards at all? We pay our bills and use email over the Internet, so why not EQSL or LOTW, and now we can QSL over the QRZ website also!
      Very 73 to all,
      Glenn (WB2LMV)

       


      From: Scott Currier <scott_currier@...>
      To: 30mdg@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thu, September 23, 2010 10:06:26 AM
      Subject: [30MDG] EQSL.CC

       


      I notice that in the digital world, some people will say "No EQSL!!" as though if you upload the contact to Eqsl you're going to hurt them.

      I am curious as to why some people seem to have a strong dislike for the service. Maybe they are afraid that if they don't tell people to not use Eqsl they won't get a paper card?

      Anyone have any comments on this?























    • Dave Rozzana N6PZ
      Hi All.. All of the comments regarding this topic are quite good. I feel, however, that if someone is calling CQ LoTW or the like, I assume it means that the
      Message 2 of 18 , Sep 23, 2010
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        Hi All..
         
        All of the comments regarding this topic are quite good.
        I feel, however, that if someone is calling CQ LoTW or the like, I assume it means that the operator is looking for a contact to round out an award only available from LoTW (or whatever). I think that’s fine.
        The same applies to any such request.
         
        I remember back when eQSL first started. Quite a deal, and rightfully so. I personally think it got the ARRL off their butts and got them to get LoTW going. I became an AG member of eQSL almost immediately. But, there were many who shunned the idea only because eQSL wasn’t counted toward anything....anything....except their own awards. Bummer. That has now changed a bit, and life goes on. I have many awards in both eQSL and many more in LoTW, which I consider great because I don’t have to hunt up the cards and do the whole “submission” thing. I can do a few clicks of the mouse and send a charge card number and they will send it out to me....if I’m so inclined.
        Now Global QSL is taking over a bunch of bureau QSL business and I think that’s great. Absolutely! Anything that makes it easier and less expensive is a winner, in my book.
         
        Like many of you, I’ll QSL anyway a fellow wants me to do it. I QSL to both eQSL and LoTW automatically. Cards (remember those?) responded to gratefully. Let’s not limit our enjoyment of the hobby, and let’s especially not limit someone else’s.
         
        73,
        Dave, N6PZ
        Frolicking freely on the HF bands since 1965
        Life Member-ARRL
         
         
        From: dl6xaz
        Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 9:02 AM
        Subject: [30MDG] Re: EQSL.CC
         
         

        Hi Scott, Joe et al.
        until about a couple of years ago I sent out paper QSL for every new contact; the return rate which some 30 years ago was about 80%, in 2008 was down to less than 25%. So I stopped it and am replying to incoming cards only. My local Club QSL manager was grateful for this change! :-) However, all contacts are uploaded to eQSL.
        If someone collects cards, he can send me one; all are replied to, and if they come direct, the reply will be the same way; if the ham sends cash or stamps, I return them because I think if he bothers to write to me, I shall not charge him for me replying to him.
        Of course, there are always people who collect original paper cards. Good for them; they get one back. But there are a lot of hams who simply cannot afford being bureau members and/or having cards printed; for some regions there don't exist bureaus either. So I wonder why there are made derogatory remarks about using eQSL? Also, I don't understand why some hams intend limiting their contacts to LotW users, calling "CQ LOTW ONLY DE ..."? Are we non-users second-class hams only? Are eQSL users third-class hams only?
        And don't let us forget those not having internet access either, not being able to QSL except direct. We got to have a bit of understanding for them.
        I ignore any remarks of "no eqsl pse", they mean nothing to my opinion nor to my QSL procedures. But stations making negative remarks about others will end up on my private black-list. There was one UA stn stating on his site "no kids with toys, no dupes, no this or that". What's the use then being on air? Where is the respect for newcomers, less experienced hams? He should reconsider his attitude or look for another hobby, to say it in mild words.
        And in this sense those frowning on eQSL should give a thought to their own attitude first and stop asking the other ham what to use and what not.
        vy73 Fred DL6XAZ #988

        --- In mailto:30MDG%40yahoogroups.com, Scott Currier <scott_currier@...> wrote:

        >
        >
        >
        > I
        notice that in the digital world, some people will say "No EQSL!!" as though if you upload the contact to Eqsl you're going to hurt them.
        >
        > I am
        curious as to why some people seem to have a strong dislike for the service. Maybe they are afraid that if they don't tell people to not use Eqsl they won't get a paper card?
        >
        > Anyone have any comments on
        this?
        >

      • dl6xaz
        Andy - thank you, I agree with your thoughts. As I said elsewhere: not every ham is fluent in English and with certain refined expressions, and we must give
        Message 3 of 18 , Oct 1, 2010
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          Andy - thank you, I agree with your thoughts. As I said elsewhere: not every ham is fluent in English and with certain refined expressions, and we must give leeway to them. What I don't like are attempts to disqualify these modern QSL services because certain hams don't like them or don't have internet connections, for whichever reasons. Ever so often we have seen such remarks in received macros.
          Never mind, don't let us drag on with this question and carry on with what we - you, me, all others - think right for ourselves without disrespect to others.
          vy73 Fred DL6XAZ

          --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, Scott Currier <scott_currier@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > Andy, you have a good point. When I see NO EQSL !!! I tend to think that they don't like the concept. A "No Eqsl" is more neutral.
          > However, English may not be the person's primary language thus I may be reading more of the capitalization and the !!! than the writer intended.
          >
          > EQSL.CC is good in that so many people use it. It's always nice to have some backup in case contacts are questioned if you are applying for an award that doesn't normally require proof of contact but reserves the right to ask at any time for proof if they suspect something is amiss.
          >
          > 73 and have a nice day.
          >
          > Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
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          > To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
          > From: k3ukandy@...
          > Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 05:47:37 -0400
          > Subject: Re: [30MDG] Re: EQSL.CC
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          > Please do not assume that those that simply say "No eQSL" in a digital QSO are "frowning" about the eQSl concept. They may simply be mentioning that they do not participate, not necessarily being opposed to eQSL.
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          > Andy K3UK
          >
          > On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 1:30 PM, signalhz <signalhz@...> wrote:
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          > I agree with you Fred.
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          > 73
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          > N4ABN
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          > Eddy
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          > On 9/23/2010 10:02 AM, dl6xaz wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Hi Scott, Joe et al.
          >
          > until about a couple of years ago I sent out paper QSL for
          > every new contact; the return rate which some 30 years ago
          > was about 80%, in 2008 was down to less than 25%. So I
          > stopped it and am replying to incoming cards only. My
          > local Club QSL manager was grateful for this change! :-)
          > However, all contacts are uploaded to eQSL.
          >
          > If someone collects cards, he can send me one; all are
          > replied to, and if they come direct, the reply will be the
          > same way; if the ham sends cash or stamps, I return them
          > because I think if he bothers to write to me, I shall not
          > charge him for me replying to him.
          >
          > Of course, there are always people who collect original
          > paper cards. Good for them; they get one back. But there
          > are a lot of hams who simply cannot afford being bureau
          > members and/or having cards printed; for some regions
          > there don't exist bureaus either. So I wonder why there
          > are made derogatory remarks about using eQSL? Also, I
          > don't understand why some hams intend limiting their
          > contacts to LotW users, calling "CQ LOTW ONLY DE ..."? Are
          > we non-users second-class hams only? Are eQSL users
          > third-class hams only?
          >
          > And don't let us forget those not having internet access
          > either, not being able to QSL except direct. We got to
          > have a bit of understanding for them.
          >
          > I ignore any remarks of "no eqsl pse", they mean nothing
          > to my opinion nor to my QSL procedures. But stations
          > making negative remarks about others will end up on my
          > private black-list. There was one UA stn stating on his
          > site "no kids with toys, no dupes, no this or that".
          > What's the use then being on air? Where is the respect for
          > newcomers, less experienced hams? He should reconsider his
          > attitude or look for another hobby, to say it in mild
          > words.
          >
          > And in this sense those frowning on eQSL should give a
          > thought to their own attitude first and stop asking the
          > other ham what to use and what not.
          >
          > vy73 Fred DL6XAZ #988
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com,
          > Scott Currier <scott_currier@> wrote:
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > >
          >
          > > I notice that in the digital world, some people will
          > say "No EQSL!!" as though if you upload the contact to
          > Eqsl you're going to hurt them.
          >
          > >
          >
          > > I am curious as to why some people seem to have a
          > strong dislike for the service. Maybe they are afraid that
          > if they don't tell people to not use Eqsl they won't get a
          > paper card?
          >
          > >
          >
          > > Anyone have any comments on this?
          >
          > >
          >
        • Laurie, VK3AMA
          Another reason for the No eQSL!! message is that the op may be telling you they don t participate and NOT to bother sending them an email for them to join
          Message 4 of 18 , Oct 1, 2010
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            Another reason for the "No eQSL!!" message is that the op may be telling
            you they don't participate and NOT to bother sending them an email for
            them to join eQSL and get AG status. I found this mentioned on several
            qrz pages when I first started chasing DX on PSK. Some ops didn't like
            the emails they kept getting from eQSL requesting they join and telling
            them "How Easy" it was to get AG status.

            de Laurie, VK3AMA


            On 1/10/2010 7:47 PM, Andy obrien wrote:
            >
            >
            > Please do not assume that those that simply say "No eQSL" in a digital
            > QSO are "frowning" about the eQSl concept. They may simply be
            > mentioning that they do not participate, not necessarily being opposed
            > to eQSL.
            >
            > Andy K3UK
            >
            > On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 1:30 PM, signalhz <signalhz@...
            > <mailto:signalhz@...>> wrote:
            >
            > I agree with you Fred.
            >
            > 73
            > N4ABN
            > Eddy
            >
            >
            >
            > On 9/23/2010 10:02 AM, dl6xaz wrote:
            >>
            >> Hi Scott, Joe et al.
            >> until about a couple of years ago I sent out paper QSL for every
            >> new contact; the return rate which some 30 years ago was about
            >> 80%, in 2008 was down to less than 25%. So I stopped it and am
            >> replying to incoming cards only. My local Club QSL manager was
            >> grateful for this change! :-) However, all contacts are uploaded
            >> to eQSL.
            >> If someone collects cards, he can send me one; all are replied to,
            >> and if they come direct, the reply will be the same way; if the
            >> ham sends cash or stamps, I return them because I think if he
            >> bothers to write to me, I shall not charge him for me replying to him.
            >> Of course, there are always people who collect original paper
            >> cards. Good for them; they get one back. But there are a lot of
            >> hams who simply cannot afford being bureau members and/or having
            >> cards printed; for some regions there don't exist bureaus either.
            >> So I wonder why there are made derogatory remarks about using
            >> eQSL? Also, I don't understand why some hams intend limiting their
            >> contacts to LotW users, calling "CQ LOTW ONLY DE ..."? Are we
            >> non-users second-class hams only? Are eQSL users third-class hams
            >> only?
            >> And don't let us forget those not having internet access either,
            >> not being able to QSL except direct. We got to have a bit of
            >> understanding for them.
            >> I ignore any remarks of "no eqsl pse", they mean nothing to my
            >> opinion nor to my QSL procedures. But stations making negative
            >> remarks about others will end up on my private black-list. There
            >> was one UA stn stating on his site "no kids with toys, no dupes,
            >> no this or that". What's the use then being on air? Where is the
            >> respect for newcomers, less experienced hams? He should reconsider
            >> his attitude or look for another hobby, to say it in mild words.
            >> And in this sense those frowning on eQSL should give a thought to
            >> their own attitude first and stop asking the other ham what to use
            >> and what not.
            >> vy73 Fred DL6XAZ #988
            >>
            >> --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:30MDG%40yahoogroups.com>,
            >> Scott Currier <scott_currier@...> <mailto:scott_currier@...> wrote:
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> > I notice that in the digital world, some people will say "No
            >> EQSL!!" as though if you upload the contact to Eqsl you're going
            >> to hurt them.
            >> >
            >> > I am curious as to why some people seem to have a strong dislike
            >> for the service. Maybe they are afraid that if they don't tell
            >> people to not use Eqsl they won't get a paper card?
            >> >
            >> > Anyone have any comments on this?
            >> >
            >>
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Scott Currier
            Good point Laurie, clever how Eqsl put the option in and even gave you a sample message so you could do some advertising for them. After the 5th or 6th email I
            Message 5 of 18 , Oct 2, 2010
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              Good point Laurie, clever how Eqsl put the option in and even gave you a sample message so you could do some advertising for them.

              After the 5th or 6th email I imagine it could get a little annoying.

              73 Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA



              > To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
              > From: groups02@...
              > Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 10:11:07 +1000
              > Subject: Re: [30MDG] Re: EQSL.CC
              >
              >
              > Another reason for the "No eQSL!!" message is that the op may be telling
              > you they don't participate and NOT to bother sending them an email for
              > them to join eQSL and get AG status. I found this mentioned on several
              > qrz pages when I first started chasing DX on PSK. Some ops didn't like
              > the emails they kept getting from eQSL requesting they join and telling
              > them "How Easy" it was to get AG status.
              >
              > de Laurie, VK3AMA
              >
              >
              > On 1/10/2010 7:47 PM, Andy obrien wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > Please do not assume that those that simply say "No eQSL" in a digital
              > > QSO are "frowning" about the eQSl concept. They may simply be
              > > mentioning that they do not participate, not necessarily being opposed
              > > to eQSL.
              > >
              > > Andy K3UK
              > >
              > > On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 1:30 PM, signalhz <signalhz@...
              > > <mailto:signalhz@...>> wrote:
              > >
              > > I agree with you Fred.
              > >
              > > 73
              > > N4ABN
              > > Eddy
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > On 9/23/2010 10:02 AM, dl6xaz wrote:
              > >>
              > >> Hi Scott, Joe et al.
              > >> until about a couple of years ago I sent out paper QSL for every
              > >> new contact; the return rate which some 30 years ago was about
              > >> 80%, in 2008 was down to less than 25%. So I stopped it and am
              > >> replying to incoming cards only. My local Club QSL manager was
              > >> grateful for this change! :-) However, all contacts are uploaded
              > >> to eQSL.
              > >> If someone collects cards, he can send me one; all are replied to,
              > >> and if they come direct, the reply will be the same way; if the
              > >> ham sends cash or stamps, I return them because I think if he
              > >> bothers to write to me, I shall not charge him for me replying to him.
              > >> Of course, there are always people who collect original paper
              > >> cards. Good for them; they get one back. But there are a lot of
              > >> hams who simply cannot afford being bureau members and/or having
              > >> cards printed; for some regions there don't exist bureaus either.
              > >> So I wonder why there are made derogatory remarks about using
              > >> eQSL? Also, I don't understand why some hams intend limiting their
              > >> contacts to LotW users, calling "CQ LOTW ONLY DE ..."? Are we
              > >> non-users second-class hams only? Are eQSL users third-class hams
              > >> only?
              > >> And don't let us forget those not having internet access either,
              > >> not being able to QSL except direct. We got to have a bit of
              > >> understanding for them.
              > >> I ignore any remarks of "no eqsl pse", they mean nothing to my
              > >> opinion nor to my QSL procedures. But stations making negative
              > >> remarks about others will end up on my private black-list. There
              > >> was one UA stn stating on his site "no kids with toys, no dupes,
              > >> no this or that". What's the use then being on air? Where is the
              > >> respect for newcomers, less experienced hams? He should reconsider
              > >> his attitude or look for another hobby, to say it in mild words.
              > >> And in this sense those frowning on eQSL should give a thought to
              > >> their own attitude first and stop asking the other ham what to use
              > >> and what not.
              > >> vy73 Fred DL6XAZ #988
              > >>
              > >> --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:30MDG%40yahoogroups.com>,
              > >> Scott Currier <scott_currier@...> <mailto:scott_currier@...> wrote:
              > >> >
              > >> >
              > >> >
              > >> > I notice that in the digital world, some people will say "No
              > >> EQSL!!" as though if you upload the contact to Eqsl you're going
              > >> to hurt them.
              > >> >
              > >> > I am curious as to why some people seem to have a strong dislike
              > >> for the service. Maybe they are afraid that if they don't tell
              > >> people to not use Eqsl they won't get a paper card?
              > >> >
              > >> > Anyone have any comments on this?
              > >> >
              > >>
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
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            • ve3oij
              ... If a person lives in a third world country and makes 30000 contacts a year, I can understand that. However, speaking as someone who hasn t had a job in a
              Message 6 of 18 , Oct 3, 2010
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                >> But there are a lot of hams who simply cannot afford being bureau
                >>members and/or having cards printed;

                If a person lives in a third world country and makes 30000 contacts a year, I can understand that.

                However, speaking as someone who hasn't had a job in a year and a half and thus understands being a bit short on cash, I have to say that I find it challenging to believe that a person who makes few contacts a day (on the order of 1000-2000 a year) on expensive radio equipment (trx, antenna, possibly tower, whatever) can't afford a few bucks to the bureau and some paper cards.

                Now, many people choose not to do so. That's fine, it's a personal choice; lets call that for what it is. I am pretty sure there are, in fact, very few hams who simply cannot afford being bureau members or getting cards printed, especially in the "first world" countries.
              • ve3oij
                ... That is an interesting comment. I, too, have received what can only be described as attitude from the RAC bureau about being a heavy bureau user.
                Message 7 of 18 , Oct 3, 2010
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                  >>My local Club QSL manager was grateful for this change! :-)

                  That is an interesting comment. I, too, have received what can only be described as "attitude" from the RAC bureau about being a "heavy" bureau user.

                  Apparently the 900 or so cards I send out, and 400ish I receive each year via the bureau constitutes heavy use. I'd hate to imagine what they'd think if I became what I consider to be a heavy user! It irks me even more because I go out of my way to ensure my cards are sorted and flagged by outgoing bureau, and are standard size... all the bureau guy needs to do is drop each little, pre-sorted batch into his appropriate out-bound box for that bureau. The cards I receive inbound from the bureau are never so well organized in the envelope.

                  Perhaps there needs to be some clean-up at some of the bureaus. Are people volunteering for bureau work without realizing how much work it can be? I can certainly see that, but it should only work for new sorters.

                  Are the cost recovery schemes the bureaus are using not sufficient to actually cover costs? That should be easy to rememdy.

                  In our large membership do we have anyone who does QSL sorting work for their bureau? If there is, could you weigh in with some of the deep secrets of the bureau :) What's it really like, how much work is it, what constitutes heavy use, what could/would make your job easier, etc. I think that would be really useful.
                • jwden123@comcast.net
                  My 2 cents.... Personally, being retired, I chose to not spend my money on that sort of thing. I really don t care that much about proof that I made a
                  Message 8 of 18 , Oct 3, 2010
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                    My 2 cents....

                    Personally, being retired, I chose to not spend my money on that sort of thing.

                    I really don't care that much about "proof" that I made a contact, since I don't typically do contest work.

                    So e-qsl works fine for me.  If you don't do e-qsl, no problem. I really don't need that confirmation.

                     

                    I do keep a supply of paper cards so that anyone that sends me a card directly will receive one in return ... as a courtesy only.

                     

                    If swapping qsl cards is important to you, by all means go for it.  But don't be so presumptuous as to be critical or question others that prefer not to participate.  It's a freaking HOBBY!  Do what is satisfying to you and don't worry about others.

                     

                    John

                    N4CUS 

                     

                     


                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "ve3oij" <ve3oij@...>
                    To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sunday, October 3, 2010 8:39:39 AM
                    Subject: [30MDG] Re: EQSL.CC

                     



                    >> But there are a lot of hams who simply cannot afford being bureau
                    >>members and/or having cards printed;

                    If a person lives in a third world country and makes 30000 contacts a year, I can understand that.

                    However, speaking as someone who hasn't had a job in a year and a half and thus understands being a bit short on cash, I have to say that I find it challenging to believe that a person who makes few contacts a day (on the order of 1000-2000 a year) on expensive radio equipment (trx, antenna, possibly tower, whatever) can't afford a few bucks to the bureau and some paper cards.

                    Now, many people choose not to do so. That's fine, it's a personal choice; lets call that for what it is. I am pretty sure there are, in fact, very few hams who simply cannot afford being bureau members or getting cards printed, especially in the "first world" countries.

                  • Phil Williams
                    Are we radio operators or pen pals? ka1gmn chuckles to himself quietly
                    Message 9 of 18 , Oct 4, 2010
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                      "Are we radio operators or "pen pals?"

                      ka1gmn chuckles to himself quietly

                    • Glenn L. Roeser
                      I sent that out last week hihi. It took longer than a snail mail QSL! I better change my way of thinking! ________________________________ From: Phil Williams
                      Message 10 of 18 , Oct 4, 2010
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                        I sent that out last week hihi. It took longer than a snail mail QSL! I better change my way of thinking!


                        From: Phil Williams <ka1gmn@...>
                        To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Mon, October 4, 2010 7:31:05 AM
                        Subject: Re: [30MDG] EQSL.CC

                         

                        "Are we radio operators or "pen pals?"


                        ka1gmn chuckles to himself quietly


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